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Do vanillas really hate us? Or have we been duped?

drew70

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There's been a lot of talk lately with regards to how the so-called "vanilla" world views us tickling enthusiasts, but it's certainly not a new topic here at the TMF. For years we've heard how the "narrow-minded" society at large "hates" and "despises" us.

I've always wondered about that because my experience has been exactly the opposite. When I tell people I like tickling, it's met with amusement and sometimes even envy at being about to enjoy something so simple and easily brought about.

I believe there are two reasons for this misperception of hostility.

1) Some people who like tickling the way many of us do are ashamed of it on some level. This shame manifests itself in the form of resentment towards anybody not "afflicted" with the tickle bug. Since they view our interest as something shameful, they can't imagine the general public not doing likewise.

The tragedy is that tickling is one of the coolest and most benign of fetishes. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. I've spent a good part of my adult life turning people on to the pleasures of tickling and being tickled.

2) I think the fire of perceived public hostility towards us tickle people is most often stirred by some of the more radical SMers on the forum. Why? Well think about it. There are tickling purists who enjoy tickling for nothing else other than what it is. Then there are those who like tickling as simply one means of control/torture out of many. Neither group is superior over the other. It's just a matter of what you are personally into.

Tickling purists have an advantage over the pain players in that we can indulge in our thing pubically, almost anywhere. We can tickle each other in parks, at shopping malls, on college campuses, and any number of public places. In short, a love of tickling in and of itself does not put us at odds with society in general, as long as it's consentual.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of many other fetishes, such as S&M, golden showers, brown showers, wetsetters, etc. Those can only be indulged in privacy due to the contraversial nature of them.

What's happened is that some of the SM radicals go to great lengths to exaggerate the public's hostility towards tickling. They would prefer we suffer their fate of isolation. Misery loves company. It was these malcontents who coined the derogatory term "vanilla" in their hostility and spread this concept throughout the BDSM and tickling communities.

Any suggestion of improved public relations for the tickling community is met with derision by some of these doom'n'gloomers. They adamantly oppose any efforts at fitting into society, and prefer us all to share in their exile. "Why should we care what THEY think of us?" they cry out in their self-righteous indignation. My response would be to say, "There's a difference between caring what people think and giving them every reason to think badly of us."

Imagine the host of a party walking around with his dick hanging out of his pants. His buddy smacks him upside the head and says, "What the hell's the matter with you? Put that away! You want people to start leaving?!"

The host responds, "Hey, why should I care what THEY think?! I don't need their approval. If they can't accept me this way, than fuck 'em!"

Without being candid, there are certain TMF members walking around this party with their dicks/tits hanging out, arrogantly declaring their independence from society as though it were superiority.

I for one refuse to buy into this bullshit. It's true that you don't want to be worried about what people think, but at the same time, you don't want to be an inconsiderate asshole either. There is a balance between these two extremes. If we as a community can find that balance, it will go a long way toward building bridges rather than burning them.
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I agree with your first point.

And I don't think 'vanillas' hate 'us'. (though there are a minority of people who are just intolerant of everything).

If nothing else they just don't 'accept' us, but who cares.

Mostly it's just in our heads (I think), like a defense mechanism.

And there are those who are 'too excessive/perverted', but there's always a few bad apples in the bunch.
 
I have to agree that tickling enthusiasts overreact to how "vanilla" folk are going to react to our fetish. Probably for reason numero uno than anything.

I, like you, have experienced just the opposite of horror and repulsion. Just a lot of interest. A few of my friends have even visited the TMF after being told about my friends here.

Hell, I even told my mother my "uber secret" last week and she said "That's it? Well, thank God. I thought you were getting off on torturing people." (So I'll just keep that one to myself. :idunno:)
 
The problem lies not with the real "vanilla" world, but with those in the so called "entertainment" end of it that ridicule and laugh at the things we are into...

Examples being Howard Stern (who ridicules everything) and the WTF show among others that portray us as if we have two heads...

all of the people I have shared with that are not in our little world have always though it sounded cool and a lot of fun...
 
Hmmm...for once, I actually agree with Drew. Somebody please check my temp, will ya? :triangle:

Seriously, I agree in principle, but take a small issue with the concept of those of us into "greater torture" or such.

It's been said over and over by many of us in the BDSM community that we know of subs who will take a hellacious beating but draw the line at tickling. To MANY, it's actually a worse form of torture than anything.

Of course, I'm not talking about playful tickling at the mall or something, but as Master J said when we did our roundtable show a few weeks back (and I paraphrase here) "If you are tying someone up and "Just tickling" them, you have to get to a point where you're honest with yourself. You are deriving pleasure from torturing someone. It doesn't matter WHAT you're doing but THAT you're doing it." Tickling is extremely full-body intensive. Moreso than almost any other form of reaction control.

So, the only line of reasoning here I would disagree with is the delineation of "tickling" with "real torture". I have subs that I would have to beat with a tire iron to get the same reaction as tickling thier feet. That's torture, my friend.

All of that being said, the points I do agree with are the important ones. It's often easy to feel that "they" are against you, when you never stop talking about "them". :triangle:
 
I didn't think about it until today, but I'm starting to think that the whole "Vanilla reaction to ticklephiles" thing is probably due to the strange combination of activity and reaction.

Think about it: Tickling is a common everyday thing. Tickling has virtually no ulterior associations or connotations in Vanilla Land. Fetish has sexual connotations. So to hear "tickling fetish" combines a VERY everyday thing with a VERY misunderstood sexually mythological thing.

The combination of the two probably throws vanillas for a loop; they might think that everytime they tickle somebody they themselves are doing something perverted or doing something that stimulates someone else and that probably freaks them out more than anything.

Especially the underage thing. They might also immediately think of all the children the tickle or see tickled every day and no longer see it in the same light. They might also think of all the tickling THEY experienced as children and think of THAT in a different light.

So that might be the reason vanillas react the way they do...as opposed to spankings, bondage, etc. which doesn't have the same benign, everyday quality as tickling does.

Just a thought.
 
Like I always say, it's only weird if you make it weird.

Confidence, people.
 
Like I always say, it's only weird if you make it weird.

Confidence, people.

Very well said gothgirls.

I have not had any problems relaying my fetish in the "vanilla" world.
Most I talk to are usually more interested and confused and want explanation rather than ridicule me.

If I acted ashamed or weird about it, they would get that vibe and think I was hiding something "dirty".

Instead I can say it as freely as I do almost anything.

And 9 times out of 10, they are open to ideas and a few of them have admitted they kind of like it as well.

Rob
 
There's been a lot of talk lately with regards to how the so-called "vanilla" world views us tickling enthusiasts, but it's certainly not a new topic here at the TMF. For years we've heard how the "narrow-minded" society at large "hates" and "despises" us.

I've always wondered about that because my experience has been exactly the opposite. When I tell people I like tickling, it's met with amusement and sometimes even envy at being about to enjoy something so simple and easily brought about.

I believe there are two reasons for this misperception of hostility.

1) Some people who like tickling the way many of us do are ashamed of it on some level. This shame manifests itself in the form of resentment towards anybody not "afflicted" with the tickle bug. Since they view our interest as something shameful, they can't imagine the general public not doing likewise.

The tragedy is that tickling is one of the coolest and most benign of fetishes. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. I've spent a good part of my adult life turning people on to the pleasures of tickling and being tickled.

2) I think the fire of perceived public hostility towards us tickle people is most often stirred by some of the more radical SMers on the forum. Why? Well think about it. There are tickling purists who enjoy tickling for nothing else other than what it is. Then there are those who like tickling as simply one means of control/torture out of many. Neither group is superior over the other. It's just a matter of what you are personally into.

Tickling purists have an advantage over the pain players in that we can indulge in our thing pubically, almost anywhere. We can tickle each other in parks, at shopping malls, on college campuses, and any number of public places. In short, a love of tickling in and of itself does not put us at odds with society in general, as long as it's consentual.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of many other fetishes, such as S&M, golden showers, brown showers, wetsetters, etc. Those can only be indulged in privacy due to the contraversial nature of them.

What's happened is that some of the SM radicals go to great lengths to exaggerate the public's hostility towards tickling. They would prefer we suffer their fate of isolation. Misery loves company. It was these malcontents who coined the derogatory term "vanilla" in their hostility and spread this concept throughout the BDSM and tickling communities.

Any suggestion of improved public relations for the tickling community is met with derision by some of these doom'n'gloomers. They adamantly oppose any efforts at fitting into society, and prefer us all to share in their exile. "Why should we care what THEY think of us?" they cry out in their self-righteous indignation. My response would be to say, "There's a difference between caring what people think and giving them every reason to think badly of us."

Imagine the host of a party walking around with his dick hanging out of his pants. His buddy smacks him upside the head and says, "What the hell's the matter with you? Put that away! You want people to start leaving?!"

The host responds, "Hey, why should I care what THEY think?! I don't need their approval. If they can't accept me this way, than fuck 'em!"

Without being candid, there are certain TMF members walking around this party with their dicks/tits hanging out, arrogantly declaring their independence from society as though it were superiority.

I for one refuse to buy into this bullshit. It's true that you don't want to be worried about what people think, but at the same time, you don't want to be an inconsiderate asshole either. There is a balance between these two extremes. If we as a community can find that balance, it will go a long way toward building bridges rather than burning them.
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"Misunderstand" is the word we are looking for.
 
Examples being Howard Stern (who ridicules everything) and the WTF show among others that portray us as if we have two heads...

Are you saying you got a problem with people with two heads?!? How vanilla of you man!
 
Sometimes people don't understand each other, I think the same happend when they see you with your punk/goth/dark/emo/pop/indie/grunge appearence, they look down on you just because your different.
 
Sometimes people don't understand each other, I think the same happend when they see you with your punk/goth/dark/emo/pop/indie/grunge appearence, they look down on you just because your different.

No, in those cases people look down on you because you're a conformist cocksucker. Regular every-day people do not look down on fetishists; fetishists look down on fetishists. The worst so-called "vanilla" people do is poke fun at us for being a bit different. We, however, on a regular basis, make complete arses of ourselves BAWWing and pissing and moaning whenever anyone says anything in the least bit disparaging about our little fetish.

Vanillas do not hate us, nor have we been duped into thinking they have. I think what we need to do as a unit is grow a fucking brain, realise that the world does not revolve around us or our fetish and accept that as long as something exists there will be people who will make fun of it; assuming that's the worst they do then we'll be alright, and to be honest I'm not worried about the prospect of being sent to the dry showers for having a tickle fetish at any point in the near future. Seriously folks, let go of your insecurities, stop blaming your fetish (and by extension the baseless notion that the world hates you for it) for your problems, and be fucking quiet.

That is all. Have a nice day 😀

PS: I don't believe you have a Navy; enjoy your Belgrano 😀
 
Vanillas do not hate us, nor have we been duped into thinking they have. I think what we need to do as a unit is grow a fucking brain, realise that the world does not revolve around us or our fetish and accept that as long as something exists there will be people who will make fun of it; assuming that's the worst they do then we'll be alright, and to be honest I'm not worried about the prospect of being sent to the dry showers for having a tickle fetish at any point in the near future. Seriously folks, let go of your insecurities, stop blaming your fetish (and by extension the baseless notion that the world hates you for it) for your problems, and be fucking quiet.

Screw you, you vanilla twat! The world does SO revolve around us! I know, I've seen it: :Hyrdrogen

Hater!

:devil2:
 
LOL You're just jealous cause the world revolves around me and not you. La-la-de-lah. 😉

GENTLEMEN. The world quite clearly revolves around me and my tastes and desires and whatnot; how else do you explain this photograph:

Japanese_nazi_girl_2_md.jpg
 
I think you nailed it in #1. For the most part I think we tend to blow the whole thing out of proportion. If you compare the tickle fetish to say... chili dogging, it really doesn't seem all that gross.
 
Vanilla? Challenge the premise...

I'm vanilla (in many ways) and date vanilla people (in many ways) who are ticklish, tickle me, and suck toes. Come on... it's so hard to draw a line between Vanilla and... French Vanilla.

I think we are French.

Are couples into anal vanilla? Or couples that prefer oral over intercourse? How about couples that like restraints, or multiple, creative sexual positions? Can gay people be vanilla?

Ok, I prefer to think of myself as Vanilla.. but I love a Peppermint Toe Twist 😉

Lea
 
I'm vanilla (in many ways) and date vanilla people (in many ways) who are ticklish, tickle me, and suck toes. Come on... it's so hard to draw a line between Vanilla and... French Vanilla.

I think we are French.

Are couples into anal vanilla? Or couples that prefer oral over intercourse? How about couples that like restraints, or multiple, creative sexual positions? Can gay people be vanilla?

Ok, I prefer to think of myself as Vanilla.. but I love a Peppermint Toe Twist 😉

Lea

This.
 
"This" what??
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People don't hate us.

By and large, they don't know and don't care.

For those that know and don't share the interest, probably 95+% think it's somewhere between silly and intriguing.

I'd estimate 5% or less perceive it as enough of a threat to seriously disdain or hate. And they're probably so freaking uptight that sex in the missionary position seems daring to them.
 
There's been a lot of talk lately with regards to how the so-called "vanilla" world views us tickling enthusiasts, but it's certainly not a new topic here at the TMF. For years we've heard how the "narrow-minded" society at large "hates" and "despises" us.

I've always wondered about that because my experience has been exactly the opposite....

I completely agree with everything you've said, and I admire how well you've said it.
 
As the representative of the vanilla world here on the TMF, I have a few things to add...

As most of you know I am vanilla (although I think I'm turning into more of a vanilla/chocolate swirl) and I am on here to learn more about tickling for Skippy (my fiancee).

When Lyz first told me she had a tickling fetish I said "and..." because I thought were had to be something more to it in order for her to be embarassed about it. (something involving midgets perhaps?) When she told me that she was just into tickling and loved to be tickled more then most I replied "okay, I don't really understand what the problem is..."

I can't picture myself ever having a negative opinion in any way towards someone who is into tickling. In my opinion the only reason there arn't more people on forums such as this is because they view tickling as 100% normal and hence would not fall into a fetish category.

As for those who are against people into tickling, fuck 'em. There is plenty of shit I'm not into that I don't judge against. For these people I think Shakespeare said it best; "The lady doth protest too much." Generally people who are hard core against things have some skeletons in there closet that they are scared to let out or even acknowledge.

In my opinion these are the people who need help, not those who are okay with them selves (or at least trying to be).

I'll step off my soap box for now🙂
 
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