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The Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat

Dave2112

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(Due to several requests and a sense of Balance on my part, I've updated this thread to include the duels of "Revenge of the Sith". Please keep in mind that the original thread was put together from years of repeated exposure to the films and novels, not to mention the Expanded Universe. The ROTS update comes from seeing the film only six times...I'll do my best.) - Dave

Lightsaber combat and style can be broken into 7 Forms. Here's what they are, who practiced them and how they relate to the duels in the films.

Form I (Shii-Cho)

This form was created by the first Jedi Masters and is still used as introductory training in the art of wielding a lightsaber. Created after energy blades replaced metal ones, Form I contains all the basics of attack, parry, body target zones and the practice drills known as velocities.

Form II (Makashi)

This is the refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It is a true art form, advancing the precision of blade placement to its finest possible degree. Not many Jedi still study this form, as few confrontations involve opponents wielding lightsabers...but Sith find it to be very effective; most Sith will only be really challenged by a Jedi. Form II produced some of the galaxy's greatest dueling masters.

Form III (Soresu)

This form arose from blaster-deflection training. As blasters became common in the galaxy, Jedi needed a way to defend themselves. Over the centuries, Form III has been refined into an expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. It is tighter and less open than the other forms, making it the most defensive of styles. A true Form III master is said to be invincible.

Form IV (Ataru)

This style incorporates the Force's ability to push the body beyond its limits. Form IV masters emphasize thier ability to run, jump, spin and flip, and thier combat is astonishing to watch. Thier movements can sometimes be nothing more than a blur with the Jedi at the center. Moves are chain-linked together smoothly and with great trust in the Force.

Form V (Shien)

This form arose from a time when Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain peace. Jedi who considered Form III too passive created Shien. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but niether could he inflict enough damage to overcome an enemy. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. The blaster-deflection style of Form III has been refined here to direct the bolt back at the attacker, eliminating an opponent. Form V utilizes wider attack ranges and gives up a bit of defensive edge. Some Jedi consider this a discipline ready for any threat, while others feel it focuses too much on strength and domination.

Form VI (Niman)

At the time of the Clone Wars, Form VI was in standard practice. It tries to balance the emphases of other forms with moderation. It is considered the "Diplomat's Form" because it is less demanding than the others and allows a Jedi more time to spend devoted to honing thier other skills; perception, political strategy and negotiation. In theory it is a combination of Forms I, III, IV and V. A Form VI student spends more time with lightsaber training overall, as all of the bases of the other forms must be at least known. Sometimes, it is said, a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to settle non-combat disputes, and this Form prepares a Jedi for whatever they may encounter in the name of diplomacy. However, full Masters of other forms consider Form VI to be overly demanding and too "loose".

Form VII (Juyo)

Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding Form, but can lead to fantastic power and skill. It employs bold, direct movements...more open and kinetic then Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movemants, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making this form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon as deep a well of emotion as Form V but masters it fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Before the Old Jedi order was wiped out, few could master the Force well enough to contain Form VII. By its very nature, it skirts the Dark Side in its raw power...and any practitioner must be perfectly centered in his place in the Force.

***********************************

Practitioners:

Yoda - Form IV
Darth Vader - Form V (some Form IV as Anakin)
Obi-Wan Kenobi - Form IV (Phantom Menace) Form III thereafter.
Qui-Gon Jinn - Form IV
Darth Maul - Form VII
Count Dooku - Form II
Luke Skywalker - Form VI (by virtue of his lack of standard training. Is known to switch forms)
Mace Windu - Form VII
Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Form V
General Grievous - Form VI

***Also note that the Forms are not exacting to the point of non-adaptability. Defensive-minded Form III practitioners are not completely at a loss to utilize some of the common styles of other Forms if combat deems necessary, for instance. Form V doesn't mean that the practitioner will never utilize Force-assisted flips and other tenets of Form IV. The Forms are defined by the styles and goals that are focued on.***



How the Forms Fit Into the Films

A New Hope
The power of Vader's Form V vs. Obi-Wan's impenetrable Form III. With all of his power, Vader could not break Kenobi's defenses until the old Jedi yielded. The duel is deliberate and slow-paced; neither man has fought another lightsaber-wielding opponent in many years. Kenobi is old, well past his prime and Vader is mostly a cyborg, crippled by the lingering pain that neccesitates his life-support suit. Although Kenobi can hold off Vader indefinitely, he cannot gain victory over the more powerful Form V...as was his plan. By utilizing Form III to it's fullest, Obi-Wan gives his party the time needed to escape the Death Star...before using the ability he'd spent twenty years on Tatooine refining...

The Empire Strikes Back
Vader has largely freed himself of his lingering pain due to his deeper connection to the Dark Side. This is apparent in his much deadlier Form V mastery. Baron Orman Tagge serves as testament to Vader's technique by this time, precicely blinded in both eyes by Vader in a duel. He wields his power with utter confidence against Luke, masterfully taunting Skywalker as he seeks to dominate his spirit in the ancient Sith tradition of dun moch.

In his defense, Luke shows himself to be an extraordinarily gifted artist with the blade, having largely taught himself. He is able to hold off against a Sith Lord at the height of his powers. He shows a gift for the acrobatic Form IV, but his neccesary connection to the Force is interrupted by Vader's greater experience and stronger power.

Return of the Jedi
It is only Luke's uncharted latent Force talent that makes him a match for Vader aboard the second Death Star. Having studied ancient techniques from Kenobi's journal, he has all but mastered Form IV. Vader's raw power is still greater, and since refined into a deadly efficiency. However, in his final desperate assault on Vader, Luke mirrors Vader's own Form V techniques and responds with a furious onslaught, defeating the Sith Lord. An observing Jedi Master would have been astonished at such instantaneous learning in battle. Luke would go on to incorporate many styles as he continued to teach himself, placing him in the Form VI catagory for the better part of his career.

The Phantom Menace
Darth Maul is all about Form VII. His utter devotion to the corrupt Sith version of the form is telling: he remains silent during his battle with two Jedi, desiring a purely physical victory instead of pursuing the "higher" Sith tradition of dun moch - domination of his opponent's spirit, which Sith typically achieve through Force-enhanced taunts that expose inner doubts and weaknesses.
Qui-Gon Jinn is a Master of Form IV, utilizing chain-linked moves at close range to keep Maul from bringing the advantage of a double-bladed weapon to bear.
Obi-Wan shows an affinity for Form IV, his youth apparent in his acrobatic jumps and sometimes unneccesary twirls. After seeing the lack of defense Form IV provided his master against Darth Maul, Obi-Wan begins studying Form III and remains a practitioner for the rest of his career.

Attack of the Clones
Mace Windu's fight against Jango Fett and his style in combatting the Battle Droids show his mastery of Form VII's fury and utter control.
Anakin has shown his raw power in his choice of Form V, but his overconfidence in his own abilities betrays him against Count Dooku. When pressed, he breaks out of his usual Form V routine and engages Dooku in the two-bladed varient of Form IV, which Dooku easily counters. This is further testimate to Luke's natural ability in learning spontaneously.
Count Dooku is a true Master of Form II and may very well be more dangerous than Darth Maul in his simple yet deadly finesse. He breaks through Obi-Wan's Form III defenses quickly, often with one hand in a fencing style. He can afford the luxury of dealing non-lethal wounds to his opponent. His salute to Yoda before thier duel shows his respect for the form and his lifelong devotion to lightsaber dueling as an art.
Yoda shows what the ultimate Form IV master is capable of. Close inspection shows Yoda attacking and defending along all three axes. He utilizes jung su ma(spinning), ton su ma(somersaults) and en su ma(cartwheels) in a whirling example of perfection and ultimate connection to the Force. His physical limitations are overcome by his connection, and he becomes a living embodiment of the Force itself.
It is to be noted that most of the fallen Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis were Form VI practitioners. Many were unprepared for the rigors of prolonged combat at the height of Form VI's popularity, serving as negotiators and diplomats, not devoting thier training to master any one Form.

Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker make a deadly team after boarding Grievous' ship. Kenobi's Form III is at the height of it's perfection, taking droids out with thier own deflected shots, while Anakin takes a somewhat more active Form V approach to dispatch the droids. The differences are subtle, as the two are among the Jedi elite and comfortable with various techniques. Two years of war have also caused the Jedi to become more martial in thier approach to thier respective Forms.

Anakin's more powerful Form V takes Count Dooku out of his rythym as the Count's attempt at dun moch fails against the aggressive young Jedi.

General Grievous was trained by Count Dooku to wield lightsabers, but his Form is more droid-assisted than Force-assisted. Utilizing his superior mobility, strength and reflexes...he attacks Obi-Wan in a non-Force varient of Form VI. With four weapons to bring to bear, one powerful strike is all that is needed, while three other blades perfom defensive and misdirection moves. Obi-Wan's deliberate defensive manuevering allows him to take away Grievous' main attack, and then he is no match for Kenobi's skills.

Chancellor Palpatine reveals himself to be Darth Sidious and a master practitioner of Form V in its rawest nature. His lightsaber is a weapon of murder, stabbing and slashing with the full power of the Dark Side. When confronted with four Jedi Masters, his well-planned element of surprise and his direct attack quickly eliminate all but the most powerful opponent...a favored tactic of powerful Sith. Mace Windu's kinetic mastery of the unpredictable Form VII keeps the Sith Lord from delivering the killing blow, until Mace falls into his trap.

The two most powerful beings in the galaxy come head-to-head, pitting Yoda's gifted Form IV against the Form V rage of Darth Sidious. Yoda finds himself facing the toughest opponent of his long lifetime, but his pure connection to the Force make him an impossible target for the broad, powerful strokes of the Dark Lord. Sidious abandons the duel in favor of bringing the full power of the Dark Side against Yoda.

In the most fated duel in recent galactic history, Obi-Wan Kenobi faces his most grueling challenge...his own apprentice. It is to be noted here that this fight was extremely personal and occured on both a physical and emotional level. Each man was at the summit of his martial prowess and both were desperate to quickly achive thier goals. This fight takes place at incredible speeds as the newly-dubbed Darth Vader seeks to kill his former Master in a fury born of rage, loss and perceived betrayal. Obi-Wan uses every trick he knows to counter the furious onslaught. In the end, realizing that redemption is lost to Vader, he falls back squarely on the defenses of Form III to escape the blade of his former friend...gaining the high ground and severely hampering a succesful attack. Vader's downfall is his own overconfidence in his new-found abilities...a failed final attack that again sees him reverting to a Form IV-style move that costs him dearly...
 
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Fasinating stuff Dave! And from what I understand, Jedi is now a real religion in our world (especially in the UK). Do the real Jedi of our world also choose forms like the ones you mentioned and what do they use instead of lightsabers?

May The Force Be With You

TA :cool2:
 
To answer your question, Terra: Yes. Although I personaly prefere the little-known but exceptionaly deadly form IX-and-three-quarters (po-ken-eye ). Many a Dark Sith Lord has fallen, hand clutching face, to this graceful (and somewhat cheap) style.

AT
 
Well, I'm not sure how the "Jedi" of this world go about it...it's more of a simple lifestyle dedication to me, not anything organized.

These forms relate loosely to some of the swordfighting styles used in the world today, most notably Katana and Kendo. I've studied Katana for many years and would probably say that if I had to put it into a Form...mine would fall somewhere around Form III with Form II attack techniques. Form II was designed for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, so many Jedi have little need for it. I, however, spar with sword-wielding opponents quite a bit in the real world, so some of those techniques come in handy. Lately I've been utilizing some dual-blade techniques that might be considered a r/l variant of Form IV.

HDS...this info was culled from various sources, Star Wars Insider, the RPG gaming stats, some books and a relation between Star Wars lore and real-life swordfighting.
 
Terra_Ascension said:
Fasinating stuff Dave! And from what I understand, Jedi is now a real religion in our world (especially in the UK). Do the real Jedi of our world also choose forms like the ones you mentioned and what do they use instead of lightsabers?

May The Force Be With You

TA :cool2:

There is a specific number of people, or a specific percentage of the population that has to put an unrecognised religion on their census forms for it to be formally recognised.

At the last ten-yearly UK census of the population, this minimum was far exceeded by people entering "Jedi" on their forms. This meant the government had to assign it a recognition code for the national database.

As for lightsabres....

www.lightechindustries.com
 
Good point by Dave though. It is more of a way of life and thought, than a formal religion with strictures and rank order.

One way I'd disagree with the films philosophy is the "The Force is an energy field created by all living things" line, dropped by Alec Guiness in New Hope.

In my opinion living things do not create the Force, the Force creates them.
 
And therein lies the difference in views between the Unifying Force and the Living Force. The Force can create life in rare instances, such as the vergence that concieved Anakin. However, all living things emanate the Force. It's not so much that the Force is created by living things as centered by them. It's one of those "certain point of view" things.

As far as Jedi as religion, you're right. There is no real code or hierarchy...just a lifestyle choice. The Jedi "religion" (as Moff Tarkin called it) combines many of the aspects of Taoism, Buddhism and Rastafar...plus some points of Christianity in its lore and prophecy. Those of us who "practice" this are most likely people who think along those lines anyway and just have a name to put to it. If I had to liken it to an individual, I'd say that I'm most like Qui-Gon Jinn, but I would be anyway 'cuz that's the way I am. I do believe that all living things are connected somehow, and that the teachings of the Jedi have real bearing. It's a simple case of W.W.Y.D.

😎
 
Indeed the greatest illusion is that of seperation. Everything is connected and ultimately ONE. Those lightsabers look expensive! 😛

TA :cool2:
 
I want to be a Jedi. I want to be a Jedi. I want to be a Jedi. I *want* to be a Jedi!!!

*Squints eyes hard, frowns monstously, goes "Grrrr"*

Pen! To my hand, I say!

....

Bugger it. Need more connection to living things.*sigh*, One more shag it is, then....

AT
 
Admiral Trouser said:
I want to be a Jedi. I want to be a Jedi. I want to be a Jedi. I *want* to be a Jedi!!!

*Squints eyes hard, frowns monstously, goes "Grrrr"*

Pen! To my hand, I say!

....

Bugger it. Need more connection to living things.*sigh*, One more shag it is, then....

AT

One again, Big Jim's neighbours are suitably pissed off with the TMF's humour.........
 
Awesome

Thanks for sharing Dave, that info is really quite interesting. I'm a fencer myself, though I've got nothing but a basic understanding for styles other than my Sabre techniques, in which I train in the Hungarian style.

Come to think of it, some people I know who have fancy software and a lot of time on their hands are making at 50 minute lightsaber video...I've seen previews, it's very cool looking.

But really now, if Jedi becomes a recognized religion, who's with me in making the Sith recognized too? Come on, the dark side is so much faster...:firedevil:
 
Dave2112 said:
And therein lies the difference in views between the Unifying Force and the Living Force. The Force can create life in rare instances, such as the vergence that concieved Anakin. However, all living things emanate the Force. It's not so much that the Force is created by living things as centered by them. It's one of those "certain point of view" things.

As far as Jedi as religion, you're right. There is no real code or hierarchy...just a lifestyle choice. The Jedi "religion" (as Moff Tarkin called it) combines many of the aspects of Taoism, Buddhism and Rastafar...plus some points of Christianity in its lore and prophecy. Those of us who "practice" this are most likely people who think along those lines anyway and just have a name to put to it.
This might get a bit detached from the original purpose of the thread Dave. It does follow on from Jedi spirituality, but it then goes into a looooooonngg monologue about some of the stuff I talked about in my first conspiracy threads. But because I think of the "Jedi" spirituality of being such a liberating thing, I think I should post it here. Feel free to move it if you think it's warranted mate.🙂

Hmmm. The "Force" is the closest thing I can conceptualise "God" as. This is why that dude talking to Anakin about there being no such natural thing as a light side or dark side resonates with me. You see, "Jedi" pretty much describes my spiritual beliefs in the real world!

The Gospel according to St Jim:

There is energy all around us. Everything that exists consists of energy vibrating at different speeds. The lower the vibration, the more "physical" the energy. We are in a dimension of existence that is quite low in vibration at the moment.
Every action, thought, or emotion creates ripples in the Force/ether/Creation because our bodies are constantly "inhaling" this energy through the lowest chakra and spewing it out through the highest. On the way through our spiritual bodies, this Kundalini energy is imprinted with our own personal energy fingerprint. The energy that comes out of the top swims back off into the Force when we expel it.

The energy that we put out affects the charge of the energy we attract in. Put out good and happy vibrations and you'll attract good people, pleasant experiences and good times. The opposite and.....yanno.

This means we can create whatever existence we choose, just by changing our state of mind and hence... our vibrational output. (If you want more love in your life, then be more loving.)

Now a collective humanity pouring out hate, anger agression, sadness, guilt, greed, misery and emotional pollution creates what I've heard refered to as "the Luciferan consciousness". It's an energy field that because it's the product of a collective consciousness, is sentinent. It's my concept of the Devil, or "the dark side".

Now my conception of "God" is all that exists in Creation good, bad and indifferent. But my conception of "the light side" is an energy field charged by happiness, free spirit, forgiveness and above all... LOVE! For everything and everyone, not just the people and things it's easy or pleasant to love!!! That's the crux of the matter and it's why this world is ruled by the dark side of the "Luciferan consciousness". There is too much hate, fear and vengeance in this world for the light side to have a chance. It's hard for someone filled with dark side emotions to see, but turning the other cheek really is the most effective way of eradicating all the unpleasant things from this world. It doesn't mean ignoring them, just not giving in to the dark side when we deal with them.

That is why I don't believe in the death penalty. Not just because it's inefficient, clumsy and tailor made for vote-catching politicians; but because it's self-defeating. People who support it, even for what they see as being all the right reasons, are propogating the very energy field that they think the DP exists to prevent. With all it's imperfections and vulnerabilities it only serves to allieviate the thirst for vengeance. To steal a quote from his Palper-ness.......
"Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"

I believe the "dark side" is very strong in this world. I think that serves some very evil-minded people, incredibly well. I also believe that the Star Wars analogy isn't so far from the truth when you remove the lightsabres, blasters, Death stars and X-Wings. The situation in this world is much the same as it was in Luke Skywalker's galaxy, but just not centred around one person. (Palpatine.) People are filled with fear, aggression, hatred and self-righteousness. Even the things people look on as being the best about their society/country/people are ones that are based on how badly they can kick someone else's asshole from Alaska to Australia.
Precisely how many Christian Americans got down on their knees on 9/11 and prayed for the souls of the people who orchestrated the attrocities and hoped they'd find their way back from hatred to the true path to God? Rather fewer than those who were bellowing "Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!" I suspect. How many Christian Brits were praying for the souls of Irish terrorists who'd planted a bomb in a British mainland shopping mall, killing a few dozen women and children? Very few. The ones who did (in either case) have my utmost admiration, because it's people like them who wil end the reality of hell on Earth, by teaching the rest of us poor benighted bastards, before we roll on downhill to perdition.
Not surprising given the exent of the atrocities; but still the hysteria that followed 9/11 gave a seriously psychotic r/l sith-lord equivalent, carte blanche to level any arab country he could contrive to paint as evil in the media. And the Irish terrorism gave the British Government all the populist ammunition it needed to even further restrict the rights of catholics in Northern Ireland, who were being denied rights that most take for granted.
It also made virtually certain that the people of America were mired in the biggest moras of negativity in history. The biggest wave of dark side emotions ever created swept across America following the atrocities of 9/11/2001. It was to such a degree that one TMF member was paranoid to the extent of wanting to report a local arab store owner for possible collaberation with terrorism, because they'd seen him talking to someone in an alley at night, after the store should have been closed. That's powerful!

Now one comment you made a while ago Dave, in response to my conspiracy threads (or Conspiracy as Myriads labeled it) was that what was the point of someone saying how useless it was, for people to try to lead a worthwhile life? Well now's the time for this pain in the ass limey to explain why that was never part of my philosophy.

When I've rambled on for line after line about the "forces of evil" in the world, it must have seemed a daunting thought. How in the living name of arse could we ever hope to stand against something like that, with all the political, financial and military connections these people have? (The fact that few if any of you believe me is a moot point; I'm playing Devil's advocate here.)

So answer me this... What would happen if all the common people of the world woke up tomorrow and were suddenly plugged into the light side? Every evil politician, corporate CEO, military dictator and all the rest, would suddenly be gelded. All their ranting and fundementalism would suddenly seem like childish gibberish from the elightened POV of all the common people who'd been used and abused for so many centuries.

So how does this postulated impossibility take place? Well it says above that everything is connected to eveything doesn't it? Well there's this incredible thing called "hundredth monkey syndrome". Collective memory is like a databank of stored memory in the ether/Force/spirit energy, from where all members of Creation can access all the knowledge that every other member has accumulated. It takes an enlightened spirit to be able to do it though, because entrenchment in physical reality and dark side emotions has de-linked humanity from this sort of potential. Races, peoples and whole world's have this ability, if they can only remember how to use it.

Scientists discovered this "hundredth monkey syndrome" when working with a community of some species or other of ape in some remote jungle area. ( Typically, I can't find the damn reference now to remember it! :ranty: ) When a certain number of these monkeys were shown how to do a particular task (they were physically able to manipulate things with their hands) the whole bunch of them suddenly knew how to do it, even if they'd been kept isolated from the ones who had. In a community of a few thousand, I think it took one in every hundred to be be taught it, for the knowledge to spread; hence the name.

The moral of this story is, once a few people begin to work out how to do something new to them, it doesn't take the majority of the world's people to know it, before the whole planet will know.

In other words, wake up and realise that hate, anger, agression and mindless vengeance don't work. When enough of the population do that, the game of misery will be up because all of humanity will suddenly wonder what the fuck they've been playing at for the past 10,000 years and why they allowed themselves to be manipulated into being so hateful with such ease. We've quite literally hated ourselves down into this pit the world is in. The only way out is to love ourselves back up out of it. When everyone suddenly gets hit with this, the whole world will change in the blink of an eye.

Sounds ridiculously easy doesn't it? The frightening thing is... it is! And the wonderful thing about it is, is that it doesn't take every American to own a personal armoury of guns, start a new political party, make massive savings of money or hold meetings in smoke filled rooms. Those are just expressions of the same mind-set that's kept us linked to all the dark side crap for millenia. We don't need new organisations; we just need organisation. For that to happen though, ALL forms of predjudice have to go out the window.

We have to stop looking on other people as less valuable for ANY reason. The biggest one these days is nationality. There are several people here who say they believe that American lives are worth more than arab ones and that if killing a few Iraqi civillians ensures America's safety, so be it; albeit wth some reluctance. Here's the crux. Yu've got to value an Iraqi's life just as much as you do your mother's. You've got to be able to love the terrorists who flew the planes into the towers or planted the bombs in the shopping malls for 25 years, just as much as you do your children.

For those of you who are Christian, remember this is what Christ is supposed to have said too. Unless you can find find total forgiveness and unconditional love in yourself under the most trying of circumstances, you are dooming the world to perpetually exist in the misery and fear that it currently does. Love you enemies as the good book says. In fact, I think it implies that you should love them even more than your own family. The whole challenge of love is that it's easy to love your family, but difficult to love the little bastards who just stole your car.

The Force, is a wonderful thing.


In closing I'd just like to say that I hope no families of victims of the IRA or the twin towers disaster, took offence from my citing those cases to illustrate my points. If I did offend you, then I'm very sorry.
 
Re: Awesome

[, it's very cool looking.

But really now, if Jedi becomes a recognized religion, who's with me in making the Sith recognized too? Come on, the dark side is so much faster...:firedevil: [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm with you! Where's my red lightsaber? I'm ready for the red saber!
 
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