A Couple Radical Ideas for the Future of a Successful UN

[Dave2112]

I've been thinking about things relating to the UN and how it could be better-equipped to handle situations in this changing world. I know a few of these are really radical and will probably cause outrage in those who are comfortable with the wool-over-the-eyes status quo...but screw it, you can either change to meet the world or have it roll right over you. I don't claim to be a political expert, and have no idea how this would be put into practice, since we can't seem to agree on the definition of the word "threat", but it's worth a shot and a little discussion.

I would like to see it become internationally illegal for any organized religion to be the sole government of any soveriegn state. I know this sounds dicey, but think about it. How many of the world's problams, both now and throughout history, have been due to some powerful groups' version of God? There's a big goddamn hole in the middle of NYC, and it wasn't put there by those seeking the land or the wealth. It wasn't created by anyone protesting a political stand or an invasion. It was put there by those who believed God wanted it and that we are infidels.

And before you accuse me of picking on the nation of Islam...every major world religion has been responsible for such atrocities in the history of this planet. The Catholic Church can take credit for a host of deaths in the name of God. In America we have separation of Church and State. Almost every industrialized nation has some form or another of this concept. Why? Because a basic freedom of being human is the ability to worship how you want and what you want, or bnot at all. If you have a religious group responsible for creating and enforcing the laws of a nation, you are limiting people's ability to do this. Even taking out the extreme of the Taliban rule of Afghanistan, we've had nations at the mercy, either legally, economically or morally, of a group who is imposing thier interpretation and will upon the public.

This can create some problem in the grey areas, like Israel (which was a created state for the Jewish religion) and Vatican City, which is technically it's own sovereign nation. VC would probably have to be absorbed by Rome or the nation of Italy...or at least have secular legal rule. This won't sit well, I know...but if it's going to work, it has to be applied to all.

A law like this would also seriously deteriorate diplomatic ties between the US and Israel, but in my thinking this is something that wouldn't be a bad idea anyway. There was a time when Israel was the victim of Palestinian attack and so forth, but in recent years, Israel has done little to help itself. Firing mortar shells into crowds of civilians to kill one friggin' guy and fighting tooth and nail against a Palestinian homeland really makes them look like everyone else did when they were crying for a homeland. What's worse is that Israel seems to be taking its ties with the US for granted, and inadvertantly (?) dragging us into thier dispute. What is the biggest problem for the Arab world in regard to us? They perceive that we back everything Israel does, and Israel has done little do dispel that myth. We are attacked and accused of being Zionists who want to turn the Middle East into Greater Israel. I'm not saying that we should slap Israel around or anything, but I think it's getting to a point where we need to distance ourselves from a country that seems about as interested in peace as the Palestinians they claim are trying to wipe them out.

The only two things that really separate any organized religion from a cult are money and political influence. With both you have a small number of elders who use Man's fallable perceptions to interpret words layed down thousands of years ago and enforce that will through intimidation. It may be intimidation on a smaller level with the big religions, but it's still intimidation. And when the times change, the interpretation seem to conveniently change as well. When it's about having multiple sex partners or else you're never see Heaven, you have the Davidians....when it's "give us ten percent of your earnings or God will not love you" it's the Catholic church.

The point is, you can't have any of these cabals actually running nations. What I'm proposing is a worldwide separation of church and state. If done properly, this may diffuse several situations. I'm not saying ban religion by any means...just keep it out of any contact with world politics. How long was Europe held hostage by a church whose far-flung and all-too-human "leaders" basically formed policy by bending the ear of kings and emperors with what "God told them"? For thier own personal gain, no less. Many British kings of early years wouldn't even make a move unless the Pope gave his blessing. These were the people who were deciding wars, financial policy and human rights...sometimes through the interpretations of one power-hungry individual. God is seldom really in the equation.

My second suggestion is to find a way to agree on a set of basic human rights that are unchangeable, regardless of culture. And this MUST supercede the soveriegnity of ANY nation's borders. We spend too much time protecting states and not near enough energy protecting people. Even higher-ups in the current UN agree to this. China is guilty of gross violations of human rights, yet they retain favored nation status. This is a shame on us. Can someone please explain to me why we treat China like a partner in the world and turn a blind eye to what thier government does...is it solely financial gain? And the US isn't the only nation guilty of this. We all are to one extent or another.

My final idea for the moment is that any resolution voted on in enforcing these rules be voted on ONCE. If they need voting at all. Violations of agreed-upon human rights shouldn't even need to be discussed. They CAN be black-and-white if we set it up that way. THESE are the rules, THESE are the consequences, cause and effect. Why do we need to vote on whether gassing your people is wrong? And I'm not saying that war be the consequence for any and all violations. Embargoes work, but only if they are enforced unilaterally and COMPLETELY. Gaining financially through back-door deals with states under embargo should be punishable in the same way.

I know that this is a simplistic way of looking at things, and I'm fully aware that ideas are often harder to put into practice. But these are the embryos of things that could work if the civilized world finally decides that we've had enough of this shit.

Any thoughts?

 

[TKpervert]

Damn Dave2112, stop comimg down so long and so heavy.
Rodney King asked that question 10 years ago in South East LA " Can't we all just get along" ?

The answer is no. Grow up and live with it.

The UN is irrelevant and illconcieved.

Rodney is still black and still broke.

so what's new

...........................................
edited later in the day by TK hisself after sobering up...

well said Dave, but keep it a little shorter, make your point, then have a nice day...(Edited for content)

 

[august spies]

dave, you have some interesting ideas.

there is an international declaration of human rights the UD. you can find this on the UN website. its a wonderful peice of international legislation that was passed right after ww2 and signed by the US. unfortuntaley, no one follows it, including the US.

second there is an international criminal court, which no one folows, mainly the us. for example when they were found guilty of terrorism against nicaragua in the 80s and ignored it and increased the terrorism.

thirdly, in the case of israel, they dont have to be "slapped around" all we have to do is stop funding their occupation and they will be forced to end it. problem solved.

fourthly, the major prolbem i see with the un, is the use of the US veto, all the time. here are some examples of resoultions killed because of a us veto:

Year Resolution Vetoed by the USA
1972 Condemns Israel for killing hundreds of people in Syria and Lebanon in air raids.
1973 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.
1976 Condemns Israel for attacking Lebanese civilians.
1976 Condemns Israel for building settlements in the occupied territories.
1976 Calls for self determination for the Palestinians.
1976 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians.
1978 Urges the permanent members (USA, USSR, UK, France, China) to insure United Nations decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security.
1978 Criticises the living conditions of the Palestinians.
1978 Condemns the Israeli human rights record in occupied territories.
1978 Calls for developed countries to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.
1979 Calls for an end to all military and nuclear collaboration with the apartheid South Africa.
1979 Strengthens the arms embargo against South Africa.
1979 Offers assistance to all the oppressed people of South Africa and their liberation movement.
1979 Concerns negotiations on disarmament and cessation of the nuclear arms race.
1979 Calls for the return of all inhabitants expelled by Israel.
1979 Demands that Israel desist from human rights violations.
1979 Requests a report on the living conditions of Palestinians in occupied Arab countries.
1979 Offers assistance to the Palestinian people.
1979 Discusses sovereignty over national resources in occupied Arab territories.
1979 Calls for protection of developing counties' exports.
1979 Calls for alternative approaches within the United Nations system for improving the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms.
1979 Opposes support for intervention in the internal or external affairs of states.
1979 For a United Nations Conference on Women.
1979 To include Palestinian women in the United Nations Conference on Women.
1979 Safeguards rights of developing countries in multinational trade negotiations.
1980 Requests Israel to return displaced persons.
1980 Condemns Israeli policy regarding the living conditions of the Palestinian people.
1980 Condemns Israeli human rights practices in occupied territories. 3 resolutions.
1980 Afirms the right of self determination for the Palestinians.
1980 Offers assistance to the oppressed people of South Africa and their national liberation movement.
1980 Attempts to establish a New International Economic Order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries and international economic co-operation.
1980 Endorses the Program of Action for Second Half of United Nations Decade for Women.
1980 Declaration of non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.
1980 Emphasises that the development of nations and individuals is a human right.
1980 Calls for the cessation of all nuclear test explosions.
1980 Calls for the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.
1981 Promotes co-operative movements in developing countries.
1981 Affirms the right of every state to choose its economic and social system in accord with the will of its people, without outside interference in whatever form it takes.
1981 Condemns activities of foreign economic interests in colonial territories.
1981 Calls for the cessation of all test explosions of nuclear weapons.
1981 Calls for action in support of measures to prevent nuclear war, curb the arms race and promote disarmament.
1981 Urges negotiations on prohibition of chemical and biological weapons.
1981 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development, etc are human rights.
1981 Condemns South Africa for attacks on neighbouring states, condemns apartheid and attempts to strengthen sanctions. 7 resolutions.
1981 Condemns an attempted coup by South Africa on the Seychelles.
1981 Condemns Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, human rights policies, and the bombing of Iraq. 18 resolutions.
1982 Condemns the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. 6 resolutions (1982 to 1983).
1982 Condemns the shooting of 11 Muslims at a shrine in Jerusalem by an Israeli soldier.
1982 Calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Heights occupied in 1967.
1982 Condemns apartheid and calls for the cessation of economic aid to South Africa. 4 resolutions.
1982 Calls for the setting up of a World Charter for the protection of the ecology.
1982 Sets up a United Nations conference on succession of states in respect to state property, archives and debts.
1982 Nuclear test bans and negotiations and nuclear free outer space. 3 resolutions.
1982 Supports a new world information and communications order.
1982 Prohibition of chemical and bacteriological weapons.
1982 Development of international law.
1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment .
1982 Declares that education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development are human rights.
1982 Protects against products harmful to health and the environment.
1982 Development of the energy resources of developing countries.
1983 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 15 resolutions.
1984 Condemns support of South Africa in its Namibian and other policies.
1984 International action to eliminate apartheid.
1984 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
1984 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 18 resolutions.
1985 Condemns Israel for occupying and attacking southern Lebanon.
1985 Condemns Israel for using excessive force in the occupied territories.
1985 Resolutions about cooperation, human rights, trade and development. 3 resolutions.
1985 Measures to be taken against Nazi, Fascist and neo-Fascist activities .
1986 Calls on all governments (including the USA) to observe international law.
1986 Imposes economic and military sanctions against South Africa.
1986 Condemns Israel for its actions against Lebanese civilians.
1986 Calls on Israel to respect Muslim holy places.
1986 Condemns Israel for sky-jacking a Libyan airliner.
1986 Resolutions about cooperation, security, human rights, trade, media bias, the environment and development.
8 resolutions.
1987 Calls on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions in its treatment of the Palestinians.
1987 Calls on Israel to stop deporting Palestinians.
1987 Condemns Israel for its actions in Lebanon. 2 resolutions.
1987 Calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
1987 Cooperation between the United Nations and the League of Arab States.
1987 Calls for compliance in the International Court of Justice concerning military and paramilitary activities against Nicaragua and a call to end the trade embargo against Nicaragua. 2 resolutions.
1987 Measures to prevent international terrorism, study the underlying political and economic causes of terrorism, convene a conference to define terrorism and to differentiate it from the struggle of people from national liberation.
1987 Resolutions concerning journalism, international debt and trade. 3 resolutions.
1987 Opposition to the build up of weapons in space.
1987 Opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction.
1987 Opposition to nuclear testing. 2 resolutions.
1987 Proposal to set up South Atlantic "Zone of Peace".
1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories. 5 resolutions (1988 and 1989).
1989 Condemns USA invasion of Panama.
1989 Condemns USA troops for ransacking the residence of the Nicaraguan ambassador in Panama.
1989 Condemns USA support for the Contra army in Nicaragua.
1989 Condemns illegal USA embargo of Nicaragua.
1989 Opposing the acquisition of territory by force.
1989 Calling for a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict based on earlier UN resoltions.
1990 To send three UN Security Council observers to the occupied territories.
1995 Afirms that land in East Jerusalem annexed by Israel is occupied territory.
1997 Calls on Israel to cease building settlements in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories. 2 resolutions.
1999 Calls on the USA to end its trade embargo on Cuba. 8 resolutions (1992 to 1999).
2001 To send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
2001 To set up the International Criminal Court.
2002 To renew the peace keeping mission in Bosnia.
2002 Condemns the killing of UK worker for the United Nations by Israeli forces.

 

[ShiningIce]

Rodney is still black and still broke.

 

[venray]

The veto and its use
Last updated in January 2003

The right of veto
The use of the veto
Use of the veto since 1 January 1990

The right of veto
The word "veto" does not appear in the Charter of the United Nations. Article 27 (3) does however state that: "Decisions of the Security Council ... shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members ..."

Thus a decision cannot be taken if a permanent member votes against it. It is not possible for a permanent member to actively oppose a resolution without causing it to fail. They may however abstain, for an abstention does not count as opposition.

The use of the veto
Use has been made of the veto throughout the history of the United Nations. There are different ways of counting how many times decisions have been vetoed. For example, if several permanent members veto a single resolution, one could count it as one veto or several vetoes. According to the UN's tally, the veto has been invoked 241 times to date – 4 times by China, 18 times by France, 29 times by the United Kingdom, 117 times combined by the Soviet Union and its successor state the Russian Federation and 73 times by the United States.

At various stages in the history of United Nations, various permanent members have invoked the veto more often than others, reflecting changes on the international political arena. The veto has however been invoked relatively rarely since 1990.



http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/...e_nationen/d_im_sicherheitsrat/vetorecht_html