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A question about Star Wars 3

BigNorm

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i haven't watched it, i'll wait till it get on HBO or whatever, i mean, we all know what's gonna happen, no surprise endings.

but 1 question i must ask.

Was Anakin all like "I am yo babies' daddy!" to Padme?

and how did Padme die, assuming she did?
 
She reveals to Anakin that she's pregnant when he returns from his latest mission. This happens towards the beginning of the movie.

She dies in child-birth due to the factors of a Force Choke by Darth Vader a broken heart/lost will to live once she slips into a coma-like state (most likely do to physical complications of both the delivery and the choke). She only manages to give birth to the twins, name them and then she dies. So that it will appear that she's still pregnant for her burial to keep the birth of the twins a secret, her womb was filled to give off the impression that the unborn children died with her.

Now that you have your answer, it would be a good idea to put "spoiler" in your thread title, for those that might read this and don't want an answer because they haven't seen it yet.

It would have been easier to post this in my thread to save yourself the trouble, but then you will have been let in on even more spoilers and details.
 
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Alot of people still have had doubts. I talked to my friend, he doesnt want to go see the movie. It was really good. There was never a dull moment in this movie. I cant force anyone to go see it, but if you still have doubts, dont, it was great.
 
Nice joke, but theres still the element of surprize of actually seeing the movie play out, which shouldn't be spoiled. Its always one thing to know what happens or hear it, but to see it in detail not provided by words or books is actually quite another thing.
 
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heres what i don't understand, what makes star wars 3 such a good movie? well all know the conclusion, is it the special affects and battle scenes?
 
Just watch the movie yourself. Everyone will get what they will out of it. Some more than others and for different reasons.
 
Actually Vlad, I think she dies because of the lost will to live thing, because the doctor/robot says she is in perfect physical condition and he can't explain why she is dying... but it didn't seem too logical to me why she'd give up that easy if she just had 2 babies, I always thought maternal instinct was supposed to be stronger than other attachments... uh well
 
janus4385 said:
Actually Vlad, I think she dies because of the lost will to live thing, because the doctor/robot says she is in perfect physical condition and he can't explain why she is dying... but it didn't seem too logical to me why she'd give up that easy if she just had 2 babies, I always thought maternal instinct was supposed to be stronger than other attachments... uh well
Em yes, in other words... THE SCRIPT SUCKED!!!! *ahem* sorry. Tea and cupcakes for all.
 
janus4385 said:
Actually Vlad, I think she dies because of the lost will to live thing, because the doctor/robot says she is in perfect physical condition and he can't explain why she is dying... but it didn't seem too logical to me why she'd give up that easy if she just had 2 babies, I always thought maternal instinct was supposed to be stronger than other attachments... uh well

Thats what I said. She lost the will to live. The only logic behind her giving up is simple- she didn't want to live in the world she knew she'd have to. She knew Obi-Wan would take care of them. Maternal instincts were overshadowed and consumed by grief and loss just as innocence and rightiousness was consumed by hatred and evil by Vader.

It makes perfect sense, it just could have been discribed a bit better in the script.
 
Well... in Padme's words, "you are breaking my heart", so we could say she lost her will to live on.

Of course, considerations about the babies and such might tell a different character to survive, in spite of all.

But episode 3 is part of a bigger saga: story must follow a specific direction, as to link up with "New Hope".
She had to disappear anyway, since she was out of episode 4.

Yet, some loose ends might have been handled better.
I'd say they'll resolve some in the tv series.
 
Yes, alot of people treat any single episode as a stand alone movie alot of the time, not considering the saga as a whole. Even if she had survived she wouldn't have been able to raise them herself and her character would have vanished and we would have never seen her again. Plot wise, screenplay wise and script wise it makes perfect sense for her to die and its much more sorrowful, dramatic, and necessary actually. If there is any reason to believe she is still alive Vader would be unpredictable. He would sense her and that would ruin things. Its important he is now seen as a caged animal (physically, mental, psychologically and spiritually) that only his son can get through to later. This is how the story works.

As far as the children, they would have had to be dispersed anyway to hide them from Emperor Dantius Palpatine.

Its not that the script failed in any way, it just didn't discribe the detail we were expecting, and really didn't need to. The death scene wasn't supposed to be drawn out and thorough. We must remember its all spawned from the aftermath of a desperate situation and the conditions of her childbirth are far from traditional. Rather than giving birth in the safe environment she should have with her husband holding her hand, she was on the run from a husband who just attempted to kill her.

See, the scene is supposed to explain itself and you're supposed to absorb that, not the dialogue or whatever. Her choosing to die is not an excuse or gimmick, its a viable plot point then and later. Its the nuance thats important here, what you're seeing, the haste of the situation, etc. It tells the story, it tells the drama.

Its all borne of things having gone completely awry, and that scene explains that.
 
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Let's consider this too: if everything had been laid out clearly, movie would have been twice longer AND they would have had no excuse for spinoff series.

I read Lucas has plans for a tv series, filling the gap between ep 3 and ep 4.
That, and the fact that, however well thought, any and every movie/novel is bound to have weak links.

It's unavoidable, and not every viewer/reader will perceive a fact in the same way, so what's clear to some, might be unsatisfactory to others.

To me, ep 3 was a bit too short. But 1st trilogy tried to tell half of Anakin's life, whereas saga 2 had to tackle but a short moment of Luke's adventures.

Plus, 2nd trilogy could evolve freely, while saga 1 had to meet up exactly where saga 1 would start [started...] off.

That's the problem with prequels: there is no such thing as real spoilers, you know that Anakin is going to become Darth Vader, that Leya and Luke are bound to be split up from their mother and so on.

A minor spoiler would be Anakin's "betrayal" and duel with Obiwan - but that was expected, since trailers gave it out clearly anyway.

No surprises about this mot pic. It went as it had to go. It could have been worse, considering the "burden" of a rigid plot.
 
The trilogy thats out there now (OT) is about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker and well paced. The prequal is just as well paced in it's showing of the fall of Anakin Skywalker.

The problem is alot of people, again, taking episode III as the explaination and turn to evil, when really, the entire prequal has been showing his inward crumbling from the very beginning, before he was even a Jedi. So for people that look at episode III expecting to see everything are going to be disappointed and will feel it was too fast paced, when really, this has been happening for the first two acts of a three act play. Act III is just merely the results of the acts before it.

Act I- Seperation anxiety:

Anakin's life is changed forever. He is forced to face what will become personal demons and his life is left in the hands of people who want to rear him right, but there is one who wants to use him for his own ends.

"And you, young Skywalker. We will watch your career with great interest!"- Senator (now Chancellor) Dantius Palpatine

Act II- Struggle, Temptation and Exploitation:

Anakin has been a padawan for some time. Because of his latent powers he is impatient with the progress of his training. He often clashes with his Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi in bouts and feuds.

Anakin gets alot of his opinions from Dantius Palpatine, who has been culturing Anakin on the side. Telling him what he wants to hear, what he needs to hear and instilling doubt in the boy over not just his own training, but the Jedi way. He is instilling Sith views in him, cleverly masked as matters of law and order to maintain peace and stability.

Anakin is now confused. He doesn't know what to believe as a truth of his life. Through determination he remains faithful to Obi-Wan's teachings, though the Clone War begins to tear their relationship apart.

Act III- Fear, Anger, Hate, Suffering:

Anakin's feelings and emotions have reached the boiling point and explode violently only after his main weakness is finally preyed upon by a prepared Palpatine- his fear to lose things and for things to change, his need for assurance through control and stability.

Completely taxed and preyed upon with the culmination of years of brainwashing finally taking effect, Anakin becomes desperate and falls prey and sells his soul to the devil himself.

Act IV- Depression, Justification, Reassurance:

Darth Vader (secretly hiding Anakin Skywalker) now has to deal with the aftermath of his decisions. He begins to see the results of his master's labor and his loyalties are cemented. He sees the threat and he deals with it because he believes its the only way to maintain what he wanted. Palpatine furthers the notion. Palpatine sees himself as the savior of the Republic and Anakin is having a hard time finding any fault in that.

Act V- Uncertainty, Conflict, Parental Instincts:

Having learned that Luke Skywalker is the son he thought he lost allows Vader to be more open with his personal feelings which he locked away a long time ago. The sight of his son reminds him of his lost love Padme and the baby he could never be the father of. He sees himself in his son and is instantly reminded of the path he followed which he now regrets. Too deep in the dark side of the Force to openly rebel against his Master and no longer physical able to, he pleads to his son that together they can make things right. Though he has his own agenda the dark side clouds his vision and he wishes to rear Luke the way Dantius reared him.

Vader tries to reach out to his son, which is an inward cry for help.

His son is repelled and disgusted by him however and they have a falling out. Literally.

Act VI- Introspection, Identity Crisis and Redemption:

Anakin Skywalker can no longer hide himself in the armor of Darth Vader. His parental instincts motivate his behavior. Luke is no longer a pawn to be barded with. He is his son, his flesh and blood. He is the shining light in the darkness. Forced to fight his son and make a choice that will dominate his destiny forever, Anakin Skywalker is equally forced to make a decision:

Fight for the man who saved him and is making his life possible, the man whom he owes everything now, or fight for the boy whom he never had and the joy of a daughter he never knew was.

Worse comes to worse and Luke, emmulating what his father used to be, is being murdered by the Dark Side, the same Dark Side that turned Anakin's world upside down and took away from him the one he loved. No longer able, willing or wanting to see this same evil control him and his family he makes his declaration- He IS Anakin Skywalker, a Jedi Knight and he's HAD ENOUGH!

He selflessly takes the brunt of the Dark Side's wrath, destroys his master, confesses his true feelings to his son, the feelings he's kept a secret for so long and parishes knowing he's done the right thing finally and can rest in peace with the Force.





So there we have it. Episode III is just one portion of his struggle. If you read or follow along with everything that happens and transpires then its clear and definable and nothing is missing. The saga is what it is- the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

No more, no less. The saga is complete but thats just this story arc, and we really couldn't ask for anything more.
 
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Just a quick question; how did you know Palpatine's first name was Dantius? I only ask because I've read all of the Bantam Star Wars books, and load of the newest ones, and I don't remember it being mentioned. I probably just missed it though 🙂

BTW, been to see Episode III twice now. Taking advantage of the fact that it's probably going to be the last time we can see a Star Wars film in the cinema.

Until 2027, when Lucas re-re-releases the OT with MORE buggered-up scenes. 🙂
 
I don't think you got my point Vlad, of course she had to die, I'm just saying it would had made more sense if she would have had childbirth problems or physical sequel to Anakin's force choke... I still sustain my statement that her mother/son/daughter bond should be stronger than the other stuff, I mean, you just don't walk out on a child or in this case kill yourself(cause that's basically what she did) and leave them to fate, even if she knew Obi Wan would look after them, I don't know, it just doesn't seem right to me, but thats just my opinion 😀 ...
And again, she had to die, yes, expecting her to live would be like thinking Anakin is not going to turn into Darth Vader, but they could have done it differently... anyway, I really liked the movie, and no script is perfect or can satisfiy everyone, and besides one little detail is not going to ruin six movies for me, not a chance 😎 ...
 
@ sarahtickle-


Some of the novelizations are more detail-orriented. Unless its been changed or editted out, Dantius is Palpatine's first name, just as Leia's actual last name would be Skywalker. Leia Skywalker. How often do you hear that? Not often or at all, and its the same with Dantius. He's just known as Lord, Master, Sith, Emperor, Palpatine, Emperor Palpatine.

Even in the original trilogy his name was never used. He was just "the Emperor", but even then his name was clearly Palpatine. And now we know his full name because we're more fimiliar with him on a personal level. I myself prefer to often just call him Dantius on a more casual level because I'm fimiliar with the character and like it.

As for the last time you will see a Star Wars film in the theaters, let me repeat- this is the end of the SAGA, the Anakin Skywalker story arc. Its by no means the end of Star Wars, just this part of it. George has said so himself.

The real debate is about the status of any further episodes and how much in continuity they will be with Return of the Jedi. We've spoken (not you and I) about this before here, and a good place to start would be the Last Command, Empire Rising, Dark Empire, etc. These novels continue the story, but who knows, it may not swing that way.

Lucas has obviously put years of thought into this, because even back when they were filming the first trilogy and more specifically, a New Hope, he was asking Mark if he's like to be in episode IX. So theres still lots more to do, especially in lieu of the tv series, which I'm suspecting will probably have the same kind of fandom that shows like Stargate SG-1 have. The main bulk of the fans will probably not be as interested if its not dealing with what they want to see.
 
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janus4385 said:
I don't think you got my point Vlad, of course she had to die, I'm just saying it would had made more sense if she would have had childbirth problems or physical sequel to Anakin's force choke... I still sustain my statement that her mother/son/daughter bond should be stronger than the other stuff, I mean, you just don't walk out on a child or in this case kill yourself(cause that's basically what she did) and leave them to fate, even if she knew Obi Wan would look after them, I don't know, it just doesn't seem right to me, but thats just my opinion 😀 ...
And again, she had to die, yes, expecting her to live would be like thinking Anakin is not going to turn into Darth Vader, but they could have done it differently... anyway, I really liked the movie, and no script is perfect or can satisfiy everyone, and besides one little detail is not going to ruin six movies for me, not a chance 😎 ...

Then you're failing to understand the moment and frailty of the human condition and psyche and her particular circumstance. You're trying to put ideal and fair conditions on a situation that was so out of control and unexpected that theres no other way it could have been.

NATURALLY yes she would have put her children first. REALISTICALLY she did and she put them in the care of someone she trusts and knows will take care of them.

Padme can't overcome her grief and broken heart any more than Anakin can turn from the dark side.

Both of their souls just gave up. They gave everything they could and there was just no more to give.

So on a deep, spiritual level, which this whole series plays on deeply, Padme was unable to continue. She got lost, just as Anakin did and it was too late to turn back.

The Force Choke and child labor can be taken as additional consequences to her death even though they are not the main cause. And the main cause is very legitimate. This is a dramatic story, from start to finish (I-VI). It delves into the soul and heart of the matter. Its much more about whats being felt than whats being seen. Having her die from child birth makes it a very unfortunate and sad situation but it doesn't capitalize on the hardship and depth of the situations and events prior to it.

She literally had to give up, and not because she wanted to. There was nothing else for her and she entrusted her children to the only one she could.

Later, when one of Leia's children dies, theres literally an echoing of her sorrow and pain in Force and its felt everywhere by all Force adepts, good and evil. This is a very powerful thing, and in the same way, Padme's death has to be as powerful as it can be, even though physically no script could do that justice. Its something you have to imagine, even though its very real. And in her case, since she's like sleeping beauty, theres no physical showing of her sorrow its all internal now. She dies a quiet, but very, very sad death.
 
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Ok ok, I got what you were saying from the first post you wrote on this page, and its a very valid point of view and I respect it, also you seem to be a bigger fan of star wars than I am, so I'm won't argue anything with you... Just try to understand my point of view, for the people who are not such big fans of star wars it may not seem as logical, all I'm saying is I would have done it differently, I'm not saying it was done the wrong way...
 
It has nothing to do with fandom and how much you like Star Wars either. In fact, it has more to do with how you believe things in the real world. For example, there are undocumented cases where people in comas snapped out of it because their sub-concious was fighting the physical ailment. By all means of science they should have stayed in the coma, but they were brought back. Either because it wasn't their time yet, their will power was that strong, and/or because they were surrounded by people that loved them and they felt their presense.

Though this is fiction, Star Wars plays on very real circumstances, very real choices, and very real spiritualities of this world we live in. In the end, Padme was not surrounded by people that loved her (as Anakin did anyway), it was her time to die, and her will was not that strong anymore. There was a time when it would have been, but its not anymore. Not after the monster Anakin has become.

Fandom has nothing to do with the logic of what happened, nor does your ammount of fandom change facts.
 
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Well, up to a certain point it does, cause as you said, it is a six part story(or 3 up this point), so if you don't know and understand Padme's character it might not make as much sense as if you do, I went to see the movie(for a second time) with some friends, and 2 of them had only seen episode one(II,IV,V,VI were blanks to them) and one of the things they asked me about was why did padme die from sadness?... But again, that is not the point, I'm really just trying to say that what may be completly logical to you may not be for someone else...
 
And I only think you think its illogical because you weren't satisfied with it. What it is to be alive when you're in that sort of state is controversial but you are still maintained by human machinations.

Just like a person on a resporator is sustained through that, Padme was basically comatose and was being kept alive in the event she would come back. She couldn't, so they let her pass away.

What is illogical about that? Nothing. People in comas could die for the same reasons and we wouldn't know it. People who have all the medical treatment they can and still die could be for spiritual reasons and we wouldn't know it. But in this case we do, it doesn't matter that it was a movie as theres no way to disprove it in reality.

You just didn't get the spiritual contexts in which the scene takes place and you took it at simple face value. And thats the problem with Star Wars actually. It takes place on so many plateus of spirituality, both buddhist and some christian beliefs and centers yet most people are not deep enough to appriciate it for that. Its just about the cool ships and the lasers and the aliens and the battles.

And thats really sad, because in return Lucas gets much less praise for something regarded as merely science fiction when really he's telling a very powerful story using images, theology, religion, and faith to show us whats it like. He took us on an incredible journey and so many people
 
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Vladislaus Dracula said:
Thats what I said. She lost the will to live. The only logic behind her giving up is simple- she didn't want to live in the world she knew she'd have to. She knew Obi-Wan would take care of them. Maternal instincts were overshadowed and consumed by grief and loss just as innocence and rightiousness was consumed by hatred and evil by Vader.

It makes perfect sense, it just could have been discribed a bit better in the script.

Or maybe she realized what a pain 2 kids would be. :wooha: 😛
 
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