A religious question, of sorts..

[melanie2]

Do you think Judas was doomed from birth? It's Lent time and i think about this often..it was foretold in Scriptures that one man would betray Jesus..and that man was Judas...was he doomed from birth because he was chosen? What if he had decided not to betray Jesus?

 

[sadi]

You know... that's a very good question, as it says, no one is 'doomed from birth' (everyone is open to God's grace) yet there are instances when it says God purposefully made people reluctant to open their eyes to him.

Ex. - 'When God hardened Pharaoh's heart so he could perform his miracles...'​

That's a really interesting question, and, I honestly don't know. :lol

 

[Violetta]

Judas was not "chosen" to betray Jesus nearly as much as he chose to do so himself. Had he chosen not to, then someone else likely would have as Jesus' purpose was to take our sins upon himself, thus necessitating his betrayal. Judas had free choice to stay true and loyal, but in God's omniscience He knew what Judas would choose long before the man was born.

 

[Frost King]

Well from what i understand jesus was ment to die for mans sins so i don't know if judas was chosen are not but i think it was ment to happen

 

[sadi]

Very good answer, Bella, I think! :ggrin:

 

[melanie2]

Judas was not "chosen" to betray Jesus nearly as much as he chose to do so himself. Had he chosen not to, then someone else likely would have as Jesus' purpose was to take our sins upon himself, thus necessitating his betrayal. Judas had free choice to stay true and loyal, but in God's omniscience He knew what Judas would choose long before the man was born.

ah so in a way he was doomed..and was that quite fair? if it was indeed his destiny to betray Jesus..wasn't he only doing what he was born to do?

 

[Violetta]

ah so in a way he was doomed..and was that quite fair? if it was indeed his destiny to betray Jesus..wasn't he only doing what he was born to do?

You're misreading what I'm saying. The way you're viewing destiny implies that there is something compelling him to act a certain way. I'm saying that there was nothing making him decide one way or another, only his own judgement. The reason it could be prophesied, however, is because God knew what Judas would decide on his own.

 

[melanie2]

ah now i understand, Bella...thanks for clearing it up for me..

 

[QueenBeeBeeMari]

Well,from what I understand there are many chapters missing from the bible so,with out the full story it's hard for me to say but I think it's possible God chose him for this act.

 

[Frost King]

Well,from what I understand there are many chapters missing from the bible so,with out the full story it's hard for me to say but I think it's possible God chose him for this act.

Thats what i was thinking

 

[Dave2112]

Well, it's very easy to write history retroactively and call it "prophecy"...which most of the Judeo-Christian religions are based upon. Many prophets have been turned into gods after their deaths by their followers, it's human nature. Same with "foretold events".

Predicting the future then conspiring to make it so. 😉

 

[Violetta]

Good to see that no discussion about faith will ever go unscathed. Thanks for that, kid.

 

[melanie2]

When i posed this question as a blog on another forum..i was surprised and amazed to discover that most people felt Judas would or was not condemned to eternal fire..that Jesus in fact had forgiven him..because i'm not sure...but i think..in Dante's "Infernal" he depicts Judas as sitting on the right hand of Satan..

 

[Janus4385]

When i posed this question as a blog on another forum..i was surprised and amazed to discover that most people felt Judas would or was not condemned to eternal fire..that Jesus in fact had forgiven him..because i'm not sure...but i think..in Dante's "Infernal" he depicts Judas as sitting on the right hand of Satan..

He's not on Satan's right hand, he's in one his mouths, Satan is described as having 3 faces, and in the mouth of the center face is Judas, being permanently skinned by Satan's claws. The other two mouths, contain Brutus and Cassius, if I recall correctly.

As for the question, I'll just echo Dave...

Dave!!!! .... ave..... ave..... ave...... ve......

Worst joke ever!!!!!

 

[Journia]

Why do you assume he was doomed to commit the act? All this doom...

It's not that serious. If you believe in the story, then you should also believe that God knew what God was doing....come on people!

 

[Cbarton]

Bella, I was going to try to give a response, but yours is pretty much right on target. All of us have free will. God does not 'force' any choice upon us per se. At the Last Supper, Christ gave Judas the chance to reverse his choice, but he didn't. Some people, like Judas Iscariot and the Pharaoh during the Exodus, will chose to harden their hearts to the point where they won't turn back, sadly.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

I'll reserve my judgment on Judas when I know more of the facts. Right now I'm sorta doubting the whole "stereotypical portrayal" of the Passion as there is now 'conflicting evidence" with the discovery of the "Gospel of Judas" (which says [if I'm not mistaken] that it was the other apostles who betrayed Jesus and Judas in fact was the loyal one).

 

[Slaver123]

I don't think anyone's pre-destined to do anything, even if it's prophesied. Judas betrayed Jesus of his own free will, but God saw it happen ahead of time cause He can see the future...He didn't FORCE Judas to betray Christ.

The awful thing, if Judas had been paying attention to his Teacher those three years he'd have known that Jesus would FORGIVE him for the betrayal; Judas could have gone on to be a great Apostle, even after betraying Christ.!

 

[melanie2]

True, Slaver he could have gone on to be a great apostle..sadly, according to some gospels..i believe he committed suicide..which in and of itself is going against destiny..as i believe we all have destiny dates for our death..and Journia i assume no such thing..it was something i've wondered about is all..

 

[mikepd]

Fiction debate?