all you hidden techies and computer folks, share your wisdom.

[Phineas]

my computer is popping up with an error during startup I've never seen before. I know some other compu-savvy folks hang out here, so what do you think?

my computer beeps twice (usually means faulty RAM, but generally does that first thing in the boot process), then after it loads my device drivers, tells me "Memory Decrease: press F1 to enter setup or F12 to boot from network". MacAfee reports no viruses, so I'm thinking it's a bad RAM stick. anyone else?

 

[Limeoutsider]

If my computer did that, we'd need prayers, because it would for sure be flying out the nearest window. If it lets you get to the start up menu, try running a defrag maybe?

 

[jhop220]

hmmm

your first problem is mcafee. that is the poorest excuse for a virus detector on this planet. get norton antivirus. maybe u need a firewall as well. as far as the memory thing u need more RAM. once u get new ram defrag ur cpu.....get norton antivirus and scan it on norton.

 

[TummyDragon]

Heya Phineas

Yes, I would say that the error you have is caused by a faulty mem stick. I've seen that error a few times and once it was an MBR virus, once a bad memory slot (could be bad voltage on the slot as the devices are powered up, the power to the slot may drop, unfortunatly this same problem *can* be caused by a bad power supply)on the board, and the other three or four times it has been a bad stick.

If you have more than one mem stick installed, say 2x64megs, just pop one of them out (power down, etc etc, of course) and see if it goes away, if not, swap them out. This will let you see if it's a bad stick. Usually not more than one stick will go bad at a time unless you've had a catastrophic event such as a lightning strike.

If you only have one module of they have to be inserted in pairs for continuity, then the only way to test it is to grab an extra module from a friend of buy one. Unless you have the testing equiptment, the easiest way to test is by the elimination method.

Hope this rambling helps.

TD

 

[Phineas]

thanks, guys. that pretty much jibed with my own conclusions, although I haven't done any stick swapping yet to test. I doubt it's a virus, because I do have a firewall (Sygate Personal) and nothing goes in or out of my computer without me knowing about it... plus, out of four boot sequences I've performed it's only happened on the alternate two. go figure.

so yea, I'm going to buy some new RAM in the near future anyway. if it goes away in the meantime, great. otherwise, I'll replace the sticks. I think it's the 64 megger (I have one 256, one 64) because it's older, but who knows.

again, thanks. once again, the TMF proves useful for something other than tickling. 😀

 

[qjakal]

Covered...

I think TummyDragon covered it pretty thoroughly. First thing I always upgrade if I buy a puter instead of building it is the power supply. Saves a LOT of hassles eventually. Always need more fans too....lol. There...fresh outta wisdom now! Q

 

[TummyDragon]

Re: Power Supply

First thing I always upgrade if I buy a puter instead of building it is the power supply. Saves a LOT of hassles eventually. Always need more fans too....lol. There...fresh outta wisdom now! Q

Excellent points Q, I can't count the number of problems I've dealt with which have been the direct result of older or cheap power supplies. While I am sure you obviously understand this, I'll elaborate a little for others who may not.

Computers from preassembled companies such as Gateway, or Dell, or any of a hundred other names on the market (or even if you are thinking of assembling one yourself), used to ship their products with just enough power to get by. When upgrades are performed on those computers, the power simply isn't adequate to run the newer cards. Also, although they may be rated high enough, say, 300w or even 400w, the components in the power supplies may be cheaper, of lesser quality, so the power is not necessarily quality, stable power. Those cheaper power supplies may send varying voltages to memory, slots, or even the processor. Varying power can cause a plethora of symptoms that at first glance would not seem related to power, such as, random restarts, random freezes, video hangs, sound card crashes, network disconnects, garbled files on the disk, an increase in bad sectors on a disk, and actually many others. The PC order companies have gotten better with the quality of the components, but I cannot stress the importance, as Q says, of making *sure* you have a high quality, steady power supply with enough power to run everything (including fans) you *may* install on your computer in the future.

Fans are another excellent point. An overheating computer component will give random errors. The processor and video card are especially susceptible, but also memory, hard drives, or really any other card or chip. The computer will also tend to have "hot spots" at varying points on the inside that could vary in temperature by as much 50 degrees (a rare extreme variance) to more commonly 5-20 degrees. Temperatures *near* heat intensive components can vary a lot more, but here I'm talking about areas of the case rather than say a half inch away from the video card processor. Adding fans which create a directional air flow through the computer can keep your components healthy for a long time. One of the best proven methods is to pull in air into the bottom (and top if possible) of the front of the case (the fans on the front blow inward, into the case) and have the fans on the back of the case blow outward. This will generate an airflow pattern which will bring fresh cool air into the case while pulling the hot stale air out. I can't count the number of computers I've worked on that have had the one single fan of a power supply trying to cool (read, suck all of the hot air out of) the entire case. Not a good setup.

There are fans for almost every possibility now, processor coolers (an absolute must) vid coolers (damn near a must anymore), hard drive coolers (highly recommended), as well as good strong generic case fans using the "in the front, out the back" method. They are not all that expensive when you consider how much longer, more stable and "healthy" the computer will run.

Thanks for the great points Q, I can't emphasize enough how important those are.

TD

 

[Phineas]

the computer I'm referring to was built by me about, hurm, six to eight months ago. got a case from the vendor I bought the parts from, so I don't know if it provided a "good" power supply or not; it *has* worked faithfully for this entire time, though. the board is an Intel P4 1.6 Ghz, by the way.

far as heating goes, I tend to keep the computer room cooler than the others in the house, and I leave the case cover off of the "open" (accessable for changing parts) side. my video card is an old one (Voodoo 3) so I doubt it's pouring tons of heat into the system.

unfortunately, I can't test any of these possibilities except for viruses and the memory sticks; like I said, I doubt it's a virus (otherwise it would be happening every startup, if I'm correct) and until the error appears regularly, I can't accurately test for memory stick issues. so far, out of four startups I've done since noticing the error, the error has only appeared twice.

if the issue *is* my power supply, how easy are they to acquire and replace? would I need an entirely new case?

again, thanks for all your help.

 

[kurchatovium]

Power supplies are frequently the problem I have heard on newer computers like those with pentium 4 chips. I am told as well a minimum of 300 watts is needed for stable operation on these systems.

 

[TummyDragon]

the computer I'm referring to was built by me about, hurm, six to eight months ago. got a case from the vendor I bought the parts from, so I don't know if it provided a "good" power supply or not; it *has* worked faithfully for this entire time, though. the board is an Intel P4 1.6 Ghz, by the way.

if the issue *is* my power supply, how easy are they to acquire and replace? would I need an entirely new case?

again, thanks for all your help.

Hey again Phineas,

No, you do not need to replace the case in your situation. There are scenarios in which one might, say if one were upgrading from a from a PIII to a P4 because of the way the P4 is mounted through the MB to the chassis (the mounting layout of the chassis would need the P4 template, and the P3 power supply would need to be upgraded too, but I very geekily digress).

Anyway, my favorite PS is any made by Antec, Inc. (who also makes great cases btw). There are many fantastic name brands, but Antec is the one I use in my own assemblies. Not the least expensive by any calculation but very top notch quality.


Antec-Inc Power Supplies

These are some of the best in the industry. They're available online at various resellers. Pick the one you like and do a search for the model on Price-Watch or Computer Shopper, etc. The one thing you need to make sure of if you do buy a different PS is that it is for the Pentium 4. If you look in your case, you'll notice that your power supply has an extra little 12v "square" plug going to somewhere most likely near the center of the MB. Power supplies not made specifically for the P4 motherboards won't have that little square plug.

Also, I forgot to mention in that other post about Power Supplies and fans that, the cheaper power supplies (or even defective great ones)will usually run fine for several months and as the cheaper components heat and cool and burn in, the voltage fluxuations may begin. So to have it run fine and then have problems months later would be more normal than not.

I still agree with your initial assessment that your problem is most likely a memory stick. The power supply would be my very next investigation if the sticks prove to be good.

Good luck with it....

TD

 

[TummyDragon]

and another thing... (TD shut the hell up already)

far as heating goes, I tend to keep the computer room cooler than the others in the house, and I leave the case cover off of the "open" (accessable for changing parts) side. my video card is an old one (Voodoo 3) so I doubt it's pouring tons of heat into the system.

again, thanks for all your help.

Leaving the case open really isn't a good idea because you don't get the proper air flow. Having the case open will be cooler if there aren't enough fans, but it will actually be hotter than having a closed case with the right air flow. I'll leave the cover off during testing of new components, but replace the cover if it's going to be runnning for any length of time without further changes. If you swap components often, just don't tighten the cover down.

And you are very welcome...