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Calculators

J

JaneyD

TMF Regular
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Messages
297
Points
16
Remember back in elementary when our math teachers said that we shouldn't rely on calculators, since we wouldn't be carrying them everywhere?

Well today we have calculators on our phones, iPods/Pads, desktops and laptops, etc. Aside from the computers, we carry these things with us everywhere we go. It is almost an necessity. So in turn, we are carrying a calculator with us everywhere we go.

So you think elementary math should still be taught without calculators?

Hahaha

A "star" student,
-J
 
I hate to be the grouch in a thread that was probably made light-heartedly, but if you're caught with a calculator on an official exam (or at least on a portion that prohibits calculators) you'll be disqualified. xP

Plus, I don't carry a phone around with me. :3
 
Its more of a question that is to be taken conceptually or philosophically.
 
Most K-12 teachers aren't the intellectual cream of the crop. You really don't need to be in order to teach elementary school, and today's middle and high schools are in such a state of disrepair that only teaching has essentially become a default job for liberal arts BA's who can't or don't want to go to grad school or pursue a professional degree. As such, a good deal of what our teachers said to us while growing up was complete rubbish, only many of us didn't realize it at the time. In this country, we treat K-12 education as a babysitter and college/grad school as a money-making machine for colleges and for banks that fund student loans. If we were serious about actually educating people in this country, we would have to change the entire framework around which education is organized.
 
good point, light hearted or not the need to be good at maths (outside a test/exam environment) has become far less important.

I did it just today, typical maths question style situation, 5 people have a meal, bill comes out and we can see what each item cost but we obviously all had a drink and a main as well as sides or starters etc, a maths teacher would want us to be prepared for this as its difficult if your not good at maths, I didnt listen at school so my maths is poor, but low and behold I have a calculator on my HTC and all is well.

Im glad I spent more of my time plotting trouble instead of working, I have a tool to do the work for me, I COULD run to work but I have a car, I could do maths but I have a calculator.

Life can be so much simpler than it looks, I can see why they didnt teach that in school tho 😛
 
I always hated math, and agree that you'll almost never need to do it unassisted.

But, beyond actually learning mathematical principles, forcing your brain to do computations is good for it. It's like exercising any other muscle, it increases your logical and pattern recognition skills. So yeah, you should still be forced to do basic math unassisted.
 
I agree with LD TICKLER. The theory and basic principles need to be learned. Even using spreadsheet software, you have to know/understand what formulas/logic/other cell references, etc are needed to accomplish the task for a given cell. Calculators and computers do the calculations quickly, but GIGO still is in place.
 
Giving calculators to elementary school students and telling them they can always use them is a horrible, horrible idea. It is the mental equivalent of giving them little scooters and telling them to never walk.
 
I think things are fine the way they are now. Calculators can be used beginning in geometry. As the student progresses in math so will the power of the calculator. I've used a calculator for more math classes than I have not used them. Thinking about it now, elementary school is the only time I wasn't allowed to have one. Kids still need to learn how to add/subtract/multiply and divide sans calculator.
 
Honestly, I just wish kids knew how to spell. The posts I see on Facebook hurt my happy. I can't even imagine their Math skills. But I feel schools should teach kids to be able to function as much as possible without the aid of tools. In case those cell phones run out of batteries at the worst moment.
 
Marquis De Sade said:
Honestly, I just wish kids knew how to spell. The posts I see on Facebook hurt my happy. I can't even imagine their Math skills. But I feel schools should teach kids to be able to function as much as possible without the aid of tools. In case those cell phones run out of batteries at the worst moment.
Click to expand...

Agreed so hard. As a Master's student, I grade undergraduate papers, and I swear to god, the spelling and grammar is truly flabbergasting. My flabbers are all gasted. I'm willing to bet that if you gave some of these papers out to be evaluated with no context, people would think some of them were at a 7th or 8th grade level.
 
milagros317 said:
Giving calculators to elementary school students and telling them they can always use them is a horrible, horrible idea. It is the mental equivalent of giving them little scooters and telling them to never walk.
Click to expand...

This is the answer I want to see! 🙂

Conforming to technology, and not creating something is devolution! Technology can make a better life! It stops when the brain stops working!
 
JaneyD said:
Remember back in elementary when our math teachers said that we shouldn't rely on calculators, since we wouldn't be carrying them everywhere?

Well today we have calculators on our phones, iPods/Pads, desktops and laptops, etc. Aside from the computers, we carry these things with us everywhere we go. It is almost an necessity. So in turn, we are carrying a calculator with us everywhere we go.

So you think elementary math should still be taught without calculators?
Click to expand...

Absolutely it should be taught mainly without calculators. Everyone here who has agreed that calculators are all you need don't realize that they only ever do the most basic basic calculations with very little variation. It's basically multiplying 2 numbers together or dividing them. This accounts for a majority of what your average joe does. Anything beyond that and people become hindered by calculators more than helped. I've always thought, and I probably should emphasize this to my students more explicitly, that your calculator is there to tell you exactly what the answer is after you already know what the answer should be. Once you get beyond the simple tasks I just mentioned, people will go all over the place with their calculators. The problem with calculators is that if you miss a button on a calculator, your whole answer is screwed up and how are you suppose to know you messed up?

Now, doing a problem wholly by hand is a bit pointless, but writing down your calculation and being able to estimate off of that is absolutely mandatory in my books. For example, if I'm trying to find (20.9 * 30.1)/10, I should realize the answer is going to be around 60. My students blindly enter things into calculators and sometimes only get the right answer purely by chance. My favorite from last semester was a couple of students calculating that it takes $50 million worth of electricity to power a TV for 8 hours a day for a year. And their calculations are never like, off by 5% or something; they usually hit the wrong button which gives them an answer that's 10,000x too high or low or some crazy nonsense that they would have known is way off base if they had at least written down the calculation first to estimate it.

Also, if one considers the idea of not teaching spelling because we have spell check a preposterous idea, you'll understand my view of teaching without calculators.
 
Definitely yes yes yes! I can't tell you how many classes I've been in where people have absolutely no concept of what they're trying to solve or calculate because they're so dependent on something that's been previously set out for them whether it be calculations or an equation. I remember when we learned graphing and people who used graphing calculators had no idea how to actually solve an equation for a line by hand. You don't have to be an expert at mental math but it makes things go so much faster when you sit down and can at least conceptually think about a problem without diving right at your cell phone or calculator.
 
Basic skills should be taught without the calculator until the student shows mastery of the skill. At which point the introduction of a tool is not a bad thing, as it can remove the drudgery from the work on higher skills.

But before a function is allowed mechanically it must be understood without any aids.

Myriads
 
Well I guess this thread just revealed my laziness.

Kidding.

I agree that everyone must learn to walk first in order to run, or in this case drive, but like take into account the availability of it. Calculators are everywhere! hmmmm... but then again the dependency on it.

Ok I withdraw 🙂) Concede!

Lame thread
 
Hahah. I don't think the thread is lame, as you raise a very valid point that many, many people in my generation have brought up at some point or another.

I think most people just agree that while it's nice to have an implement like that, it's good to be able to do it yourself, too.
 
Bothersome said:
Hahah. I don't think the thread is lame, as you raise a very valid point that many, many people in my generation have brought up at some point or another.

I think most people just agree that while it's nice to have an implement like that, it's good to be able to do it yourself, too.
Click to expand...

Well thanks hahaha, but sure basics is basic. + - x \ we all should know how these work and like pemdas etc etc, but like.. ughhh theres no really defending devils advocate here hahaha.

Errmmm Math just got complicated ever since they included letters. Can we agree with that? 😛
 
Oh yes. I've always been of the mind that the alphabet and numbers shouldn't mix. xP
 
JaneyD said:
Errmmm Math just got complicated ever since they included letters. Can we agree with that? 😛
Click to expand...
We can certainly agree that algebra is more complicated than arithmetic.

PS: This is not a lame thread. It raised an important issue.
 
Calculators should be banned until high school, when students had bloody well better know how to add and subtract.

SS
 
I think we should at least learn the skills for ourselves as a child, then as an adult choose whether to use a calculator or not.
 
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