Child Support

[Biggles of 266]

Due to some family problems between my parents, I've decided to complain on the TMF. Paying money to the parent who has custody of the children is only fair, and it's the honourable thing to do. However, some countries (I'm looking at you, Japan) don't enforce payment if the father is living there.

This means because certain male members of my family who may or may not be my father can avoid supporting my little sister and I because the Japanese government doesn't feel like making him. There's nothing the Australian government can do about it, and he doesn't pay us nothin like what he owes my Mum.

Does anyone here pay child support, not pay child support, receive child support, not receive child support etc? I'm looking forward to hearing from some other members.

Biggles

 

[tkrexx]

The Can of Worms Has Been Opened...

...and I didn't open it. But, since it's here, smelling up the place, I may as well grab the nearest stick and stir it up some.

Fair Warning: The following text will leave a very nasty taste in some Forum members' mouths, but I'm NOT targeting ANYONE here.

Yes, child support is the honorable thing to do. Yes, it is the law in America, and many other countries as well. It is also completely unfair.

In the USA, people who pay child support do so generally because they are compelled to do so by various state, federal and local laws. Most states have an agency called Child Support Collection Services (Names may vary). This agency collects payments directly from non-custodial parents, or, that failing, from the non-custodial parent's place of employment, via garnishment of wages. Tax refunds can also be witheld, and assets (property, stock portfolios, 401k's, etc.) may have a lein put on them. The Child Support Collection Service, the custodial parent's lawyer(s), local law enforcement officials, non-custodial parent's place of employment, as well as the custodial parent can and do LEGALLY constantly HARRASS (nothing less) the non-custodial parent at will if payment is one day late or one dollar short. If the non-custodial parent loses employment for whatever reason, support is still expected to be paid. If it is not, month after month of back support accumulates, and above harrassment continues. It must be noted that upon occasion, due to loss of employment and/or lesser paying employment, child support is lessened to a degree IF the non-custodial parent (the one with no job, remember) PAYS for a court hearing requesting such an end. Let's be real: How many times have YOU seen that happen? If the non-custodial parent gets a raise, or better-paying employment, the amount of support agreed upon in a court of law by all parties is instantly null and void. A new, higher support payment must be decided in court, all at the non-custodial parent's expense, of course. Oh, and let us not forget the custodial parent can and often does move the child as far as humanly possible from the child support payer, who, being behind on support and paying everyone's legal fees on no or lesser income, can hardly afford to travel more than down the block to see the child, much less afford ANOTHER legal (and probably losing) battle preventing such a move.

Let's face it: Non-payment of child support is NOT tolerated in our society. EVERYONE will hunt you down, force you to sell your house, your car, and your COMPUTER, and label you a "Deadbeat Dad." GOD how I hate that term.

There are only two fool-proof ways of avoiding such a demeaning and socially-suicidal fate: The first is, as Biggles pointed out above, move to Japan, or another country outside the USA, and NEVER RETURN. Complete and utter self-banishment.

The second, and easier way of avoiding all responsibilities for the children you helped put on this earth, is be a woman.

Don't draw and quarter me yet!

Over 85% of custody battles end up with the woman recieving child support, even if the man has custody of one or more of the children involved. In most of these "custody battles," there is no battle at all, it's just a matter of deciding how much the man must pay. Of the Over 85% of women awarded child support, 80% do or have recieved SOME support, even if not at the level decided by the court. Compare that to the less than 15% of custodial males: Only 20% recieve ANY child support. Until about 1988, less than 50% of custodial males were even AWARDED child support. (Your long-winded orator fell among those who were not.)

Of those non-custodial females, avoiding support payments is sinfully easy. Just don't pay. Period. States, prosecuters, courts, Welfare agencies and even Child Support Collection Services all refuse to go after women the way they do men. They won't TELL you this, unless you're a custodial father trying for years to change the system into a fair one, and then, IF they tell you, it's under their breath, away from prying ears, when THEY are tired of beating their heads against a wall.

Just for a moment, suppose after a decade or so of frustration, someone in a position to do so, (Ironically, usually a female) says, "Hey, this just isn't fair!" and actually does NOT push the envelope, but follows thru and makes sure that a non-custodial mother MUST abide by the same laws as any non-custodial male. The non-custodial mother still has an out: Get pregnant. Welfare and child support payments CANNOT be garnished by any means.(My first wife is a prime example of this chicanery.)

For those of you who are still reading this drawn-out complaint, I must congradulate your obviously socially-aware intellect or pity your boredom.

During the 12 years I was happily divorced I raised my son alone since he was a year and a half old. Single mothers think it's hard to find a date? HA! My son was fifteen before I was awarded child support, which is rarely paid. Yet no agency will go after my son's mother for late or non-payment. She scoffs with impunity. I've attended meetings of several sorts over the years (Father's rights groups, Single Father's groups, Men's rights groups). They all disolve after a short time. There simply isn't any government funding for support groups for men. One thing stands out about those meetings: The story I unfolded in this thread is frighteningly common, from beginning to end. (These groups are also where I got my above statistics from.)

By no means do I intend for anyone to think I say it ALWAYS happens this way. We all know better. All I did here was tell you a story you don't hear every day. To all young men reading this, I advise you to do whatever you must to be able to control your OWN reproductive destiny, if only so YOU can decide who you'll eventually be paying child support to.

Gee, do I sound jaded?

Rxx

 

[Ayla ny]

if everyone who BECAME a parent STAYED a parent (like you did, tkrexx) this entire thing would be a non-issue. it's really pretty sad that there is even a need for legislation. it should be both adults loving their children and wanting to do everything they can to make them happy. once you become a Mom or a Dad... you are not allowed to say "what about me... Me... ME?"! well, maybe AFTER your childred are well fed, well loved and sleeping.

child support should be a simple formula based on each parent's income. a gender-blind formula... but one that does not change the day to day lives of the children too drasticly. there is enough change for them to deal with already! we all know what the messed up crap in our own childhoods did to us. if we love our children we try to keep their own messed up crap to a minimum.

this subject is just a little close to hoMe. can ya tell? lol

 

[JoBelle]

My son's father and I co-parent. There is an element that has to exist between us whether we like it or not and it takes the form of a little boy we both love.

We feel an obligation to our CHILD. If either of us were to lose income, it's up to US, not the other parent to take up the slack. You do whatever it takes to give each of your children a room, a bed, a set of clothes, a meal, a social life appropriate to age, and parental attention. That is whether he's with you every day, or one day a year. You also don't make the non-custodal parent PAY to see the children. That makes my child suffer, not mt ex. Parental ego is much worse than any "dead beat parent." It's a damn shame when two adults can't put aside their hate long enough to sit in a room and decide what's best for a kid. It's WAY easier to point a finger at the ex and label them a bad parent...that's a cop out, on both sides. It lets you live up to the claim, or it lets you throw your hands in the air in frustration and that's the end of the story.

Hits close to home with me too. I'm a hard headed woman who wasn't going to let someone tell me that I'm too female to take care of my son without my ex helping with the bills. My ex does give his kid money, and I put it in the bank in his name. It's for HIM, not for me.I don't need it. I worked very hard to be a position where I could say that.

This view brought to you by one of the few people who doesn't ask the government to intervene.
Joby

 

[BigJim]

Joby, if every parent was as responsible and upright in their thinking as you are, this world would'nt be so full of poor children who thought that one or both of their parents don't love them.

I applaud the attitude you and your ex have towards the lad's well being. Maybe that'd be a good thing to add to our political agenda? I can't think of many causes more worthy.

 

[Alex Warfield]

Reading posts like this give me yet another reason to not reproduce

 

[shark]

Both maverick and I brought up the issue of nonreproduction(?) in earlier posts.Children are a huge responsibility and expense.If you can't handle it,or are not absolutely sure about them,don't have them.

 

[Frink]

tkrexx

I hear what you're saying, tkrexx...albeit not from personal experience. I have a family member going through a very similar thing...for about 10 years now. Child support payments, in combination with a spiteful (custodial) mom, and a judicial/enforcement system biased towards women (i.e., against so-called "Deadbeat Dads") have pretty much broken him financially. All the while, he as well as other family members have made tremendous efforts to keep things square and reasonably amicable. This "tremendous effort" (e.g., lawyers, etc.) trying to introduce some fairness into the situation has only served to put others in the family into debt as well.

Not much changes though. Whether he pays or not doesn't seem to prevent her from keeping him from seeing his kid ...even for holidays. Many times he's traveled great distances (as she has changed states more than once) only to discover the mother and kid are suddenly "unavailable" or just "not home." :SoWrong:

The whole system needs MAJOR work.

 

[maverick83]

Heh...u beat me to it, Shark.

That's right. The subject covered by this post gives me yet another reason (one I hadn't even considered) to never have children. I also agree with Ayla. Be concerned about your children, not yourself. Each child you have is at least an 18-year commitment. Not sure you're ready for that? Don't have them. But I agree with tkrexx about the system.

 

[giggledude]

The pendulum has swung back and forth and will probably continue to do so. I know of several divorces that would have happened in the early 1980's except that the trend of husbands using their superiour legal connections and having their relatively defenceless wives declared unfit mothers scared the women into sticking it out for another 5-10 years. Any injustice to a decent person on either side is always saddening, but as long as marriage remains a right rather than a privilege, is it really likely to improve much?

 

[Biggles of 266]

tkrexx:

my dad moved to Japan so he could keep teaching english, find a wife and avoid child support. He chose that country because their attitude is that any woman who is divorced doesn't deserve any support, although my mum works damn hard in a crappy job with a mortgage on the house, my sister in high school and me in university.

While he's living with only his wife and him and earning good money, don't you think it would be fair if he gave my sister some money to buy new clothes or sent me some money for when my car breaks down (when, not if...)? How come he's allowed to live without supporting us? As a parent he has the obligation to look after his children.

 

[tkrexx]

Just from what you've said, Biggles, your Dad is a creep. Of course your Mother deserves support, no one in this thread has disputed that, especially not me. Moving to another county to avoid paying child support is reprehensible. Your Mother has my sympathy, but she also has the honor of having a son good enough to see and understand the burden she endures for the love of her children. If she knew you posted this, I'm sure she would be proud. Apologies to you, Sir, for turning this thread into something other than what you intended it to be. My only intention was to bring the other side of the child support issue to light. And yes, also to say I know exactly what your Mother has gone thru over the years.

For those of us who say "Don't have kids if you don't want the responsibility for them," I assume you are directing that at females...The only choices a man has in this matter are get cut or don't have sex with a woman.

Finally, I have a 17-year-old son living with me for 16 years now, a fine young man who I am very proud of...Living proof that "Copping out" is not in my nature.

Rxx

 

[kurchatovium]

Sadly I know of a close friend who had a somewhat similar experience as tkrexx. My friend was happily married and they decided to have a child. The instant the child was born my friends wife started to become more and more distant and stayed at her mother's house. My friend tried to find out what was wrong and patch things up but it was no use. They got divorced. My friend ended up paying insane amounts of alimony and child support while his ex-wife sat on her ass and lived with her mother. If that were not bad enough, my friends ex-wife has constantly bad mouthed him to his daughter at every opportunity. Luckily he is a very loving parent and spends as much time with his daughter as possible so I think the daughter realizes her mother isn't telling the truth. They were times I had to lend him money just so the man could get a decent meal because his business was failing. His business started to fail because he couldn't afford to keep his store stocked with antiques because of all the alimony and child support he had to pay. As the business failed he had less and less money and eventually he had to shut down the store that he loved. Fortunately he found a job with the post office and so his salary is at least enough where he can afford child payments and alimony and have money to take care of himself. His ex-wife has no intention of remarrying and essentially used my friend as a sperm donor and welfare system all rolled into one. You have my sympathies tkrexx cause I know the system ain't fair. Hopefully someone can rework it so that it is fair to all parties involved.

 

[shark]

This is another example of how the system is messed up.Sooner or later,people in kurchatovium's friend's position might say screw it and book.There are ways and means for many people to stay on the loose for many years.And who suffers? Ultimately the kids.

I personally think much of this is due to people having a much too cavalier attitude towards things like marriage.It's all too often that the easy way out is preferred,despite the fact that many times it really isn't.

Also,the system only uses its own rules to decide support.You can have child support in one county high enough to bankrupt someone,where, with somewhere else in the same state, it can be ridiculously low.

 

[BigJim]

I personally think much of this is due to people having a much too cavalier attitude towards things like marriage.It's all too often that the easy way out is preferred,despite the fact that many times it really isn't.

Damn right. I think a lot of people, especially teenagers don't think enough about the consequences of having children. They can only seem to focus on the love and happiness aspects. Sure those things do exist with kids, but parents have a duty to their future children to develop their own lives to the fullest first. That is the only way they can make sure they're in the right financial position and also the right family position. Too many kids these day are finding out how fun it is to hop on the good foot and do the bad thing, and then saying it doesn't matter if a child results, because they'll always love each other. If they're old enough to procreate they should also be old enough to realise how fucking selfish this attitude is. They're not thinking of the kids at all, only their own selfish feelings.

By the way, I apologise for letting this get slightly off the topic we started with. I know this is about child support, but I'd already commented on that and I thought this would be a relavent side topic.

I agree with most of the comments made thus far, and wish to God that the mindless pillocks in their robes and gowns would sometimes consider the morality of "deadbeat mums" as wells as dads. I know of too many cases in this country as well, where a girl who is frustrated at living at home has gotten pregnant just so she can get a social security income and a council flat.

 

[Biggles of 266]

a girl who is frustrated at living at home has gotten pregnant just so she can get a social security income and a council flat.

oh yes, and live in luxury. Maybe it's much much higher in merrie old engerland but in Australia I think it's something like $10 per kid per fortnight. Not exactly worth getting pregnant for.

 

[BigJim]

oh yes, and live in luxury. Maybe it's much much higher in merrie old engerland but in Australia I think it's something like $10 per kid per fortnight. Not exactly worth getting pregnant for.

That might be the child cupport amount, but they also get rent allowance, single parents allowance, familly credit, income support allowance and tax credit. It doesn't add up to a fortune, but the idle buggers can live for 18 years without having to shift their arses from in front of the TV. Did I mention they also get a free TV license?