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Comic Panel Questions

Sir Bombers

2nd Level Red Feather
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
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Hello TT!

Not sure of where this should go, so I just picked general discussion...


Fellow artists! (especially MTJPub affiliated ones... or anyone who's ever made a comic type piece of artwork...)

How do you create panels for your comics?

Do you go old school and draw everything, on a single page? Panels and all?

Or do you draw a series of individual pictures and paste them all together digitally?

Next...

How do you come up with a template to arrange the panels?


Is it spur of the moment, just spontaneously arranging panels as you go?


or is it more of a planned process, with a sort of "blue print" prior to actually making the comic?


The answers to these questions could help for future endeavors...

😉
 
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With MTJ, there is usually a script written first unless the writer and artist are the same person. A lot of times, it'll just be a writer, who writes out the script and a how they want the characters to look, the panels to look, etc. They are usually confined to about 30 panels total, but that can include splash pages. There tends to be no more than four panels to a page. Once the script is finalized, the writer either chooses an artist from the community or from a list that MTJ usually works with.
 
Aha! An art question!

Sometimes I will draw everything on one page, and sometimes I will draw most of it on different sheets and past it together after scanning... what works best for me at the moment really. I'm rather chaotic in my working process...

I don't really have a template, which makes the outer margins and gutter thicknesses vary over the comic. I will probably come up with some standard template for my comic paneling, at least a set of metrics to work from. But some panels I deliberately want to have oddly sized to accentuate the action. Like oddly angled borders to underline the confusion of the main character during an intense tickle-torture scene 😉 Or have the panels running off-page to suggest openness.

lastly I rather lean towards the European comic model that has an average of 6 or more panels per page. The American average print comic has smaller pages, has around 4 panels per page and will often feature splash pages. Since page size in the digital medium is relative. I just make sure the lettering is of a reasonable readability on the average 15 inch laptop screen at full page view, and determine the scale accordingly.
 
Currently, Antique Submarine is doing full pages for "Etherworld" with an average of six frames per 8.5x11" (US Letter) sized page.

I write the whole thing using a standard television shooting script format with all frames called out. Sam (Bella Donna for the two people who might not know) then takes the script and does rough layouts and then does a final sketch for each page.

Thos sketches are scanned, and then inked using very powerful computers here in the Antique Submarine publishing office by highly-experienced graphic artists. That is Sam and I ink 'em using our boxes at home. They're colored, then she adds the text. Any final changes to dialogue happen then. Usually it's things to make sure that the folks aren't speaking out-of-character, or out-of-dialect.

Simple and cheap.
 
Most of my published stuff was of the format of "one image per page with text down the side." However, I did a couple early on that were formatted like a traditional comic. I actually still have storyboards I did for "Sara's Tickling Fantasies". I basically took a notebook, squared it off into four squares per page and just did stick figures to represent what I wanted the pages to lok like. This helped me plan out a long story and not have to "wing it." Even with the one-image pages of later pubs, I still storyboarded everything. I'm not a big fan of making it up as you go along. You can generally tell the comics that do that...the ones that storyboard and plan tend to have more concise stories and better flow.

Currently, working with Agency Publishing, our art team works very closely with Obs and I. The scripts are already written before they reach the art team, and they read like movie scripts with everything the team needs to create what we've put down. Then, we consult on the pencils before things go to ink, so any changes can be made that are needed.

I guess the bottom line is that pre-planning extensive projects is the best way to go. I know a lot of artists like to just jump right in, but if you're going to put yourself out there and represent yourself as a creative force, you should have an idea of what it is you're trying to get across. This will make things MUCH easier when you really get into the meat of it.

If there's anything else you need, Bombers...just drop me a line, would love to talk shop. 🙂
 
For the first question I draw everything, I put all the pannels in the page to fill them with the action later. When I scan it to upload it, I have the comic page done.

As for the second I plan the pannels distribution carefully before, trying to find the best way to make the page to show the action. I make somekind of storyboard first.
 
I don't follow any rigid page layout planning. I'll often develop the layout in my head and then put it to paper. There's only so much time I have before starting the actual drawing work. If I wait and plan for too long, it kills my excitement, and make the drawing process feel like a routine job. I will do some thumbnail sketches for particularly difficult scenes sometimes, but not always.

For a series like TIS, Bandito first writes out the story, of which we'll create a rough breakdown together -roughly what bit of the story is going to go on a each page. For the most part it doesn't detail any panel layout, just how the story will be spread over the available pages. And then I'll start working from there, going page by page (or doing multi-page scenes as "sequences") and adjusting things from there. TIS is being developed very dynamically, often ideas will emerge from our email correspondence, and we develop these new ideas together and I implement them back into the comic. Here and there I will add dialogue, or rephrase existing lines to make the story translate better to the visual medium. As such, the end result differs from the original story, the "kissing scene" (which wasn't in the original story) in Inosaka's Paradox is one example of such a dynamic develop-as-we-go-along method.
 
hmm i'm surprised LIttleBigHead hasn't commented yet...he seems the expert here also, since he does those awesome cartoon thingies....

p.s. Scavenger..did you make your awesome siggy? it rocks..

Oh I'll bet Littlebighead will drop by anytime soon. I too am kinda curious how his script-to-paneling workflow goes.

And you mean my TIS advertisement banner? Yeah, that was my doing. Fiddled around a bit with Photoshop's "animation" settings... 🙂
 
How do you create panels for your comics?
Do you go old school and draw everything, on a single page? Panels and all?
Or do you draw a series of individual pictures and paste them all together digitally?

^ Free paneling works for me – meaning, there is no standard panel size within the page. Currently I work on at least A3 size (with pencil and waterproof inks) because it is hard to draw on small sheets to interpret a panel well. Like scavenger mentioned them “big sheets.” If I am given a script with specifications, I follow them by the book, but I give room for my own judgment on what is best for creative execution.

http://www.tickletheater.com/showthread.php?t=52029
(informal freebie sampler of what I call "free-paneling")

For errors, I do patches on letter size sheets and do the enormous adjustments digitally and make sure to land on perfect pages. This brings a lot of headache, but it's worth it. You see, doing comics is like a jungle at times, some animals come and go. I am referring to insertions.

In case you want to know more, doing comics is PLANNING. 100% planned art.

To sum it up, there is really no exact rule for comic paneling. You can create your own system, make it good out of your artistic definition and all you have to aim is to make it acceptable for your publisher/s.


How do you come up with a template to arrange the panels?
Is it spur of the moment, just spontaneously arranging panels as you go?
or is it more of a planned process, with a sort of "blue print" prior to actually making the comic?
The answers to these questions could help for future endeavors...😉

^ It is not spur of moment. It all starts from a concept, then storyline, and like what Scavenger termed "story arc”. Then comes sequence treatment applied to comics, and you arrange it by panel. For artists, having the capability to do your own story is ++, it’s because you have full control of your thoughts and desired imagery. As I can see, all artists can do this. But being given a script ready to execute definitely eases the load, as the script writer do the basic imagination and assign how many panels are assigned to a page, and as the artist, all you have to do is interpret.

When you create your panels, it is always deductive all the time. You see the big picture as a whole. You already have the working imagination on how it will be brought to life before you attack the detail.

There are software with built-in panels, but I don’t prefer to use it. Anyway, I have designed my own template with photoshop – actually just a border with footer/page #. Everything scanned is tamed right there like Level II. You see, layouting your comic is in itself a big job. Dwell on the content.

Believe me, every effort for the comic that crosses my drafting table is like giving birth… But it is always a rewarding experience. I will echo again, comics is 100% planned art.
 
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When I created my DAZ comic I used this program... http://plasq.com/comiclife-win it's called 'Comic Life'. It's honestly the simplest program I've ever found. All you have to do is set up your panels by clicking and dragging them and the same thing goes for the pictures.
 
Oh I'll bet Littlebighead will drop by anytime soon. I too am kinda curious how his script-to-paneling workflow goes.

And you mean my TIS advertisement banner? Yeah, that was my doing. Fiddled around a bit with Photoshop's "animation" settings... 🙂

damn you're fast...i had deleted that post as i felt it wasn't too helpful...lol...yes LBH should stick his little big head in this thread....hehe

and neato..i like your banner..yes i meant that..
 
One quick note...to echo something Scavenger said. Planning ahead and storyboarding does NOT mean you can't have inspirations that affect the final outcome. Even with scripts like we use for Ruthless and The Agencies, things can come up "half-way through."

"Hey...wouldn't it be AWESOME if she peeled off the victim's gag and gave her a big wet sloppy kiss? People will eat it up, and we can get rid of that one panel we weren't too sure about."

You can still have some level of spontaneity with pre-planning. The benefit is, with everything laid out before you, you have something to go on if you DO want to change things up a bit. You can look at it and go "Ok, if I change THIS...I'll have to fit it HERE, and move THIS." Rather than having a clusterfuck at the end.
 
One quick note...to echo something Scavenger said. Planning ahead and storyboarding does NOT mean you can't have inspirations that affect the final outcome. Even with scripts like we use for Ruthless and The Agencies, things can come up "half-way through."

Very true. And actually a lot can change during the process. I'm a very chaotic comic artist. I tend to visualize key plot points and just fill up the stuff in between them as I get to those parts. I don't entirely agree on the 100% planned thing though. Ongoing webcomics, for example. Lots of them are just made up sequence by sequence. Or the "24 hour comic" project by Scott McCloud. (anyone who is even remotely into comics should read his comic "Understanding Comics" -very insightful stuff, and it really changed my view of comics)

Most of the "organized" rulesystem on how to create comics is derived from the comic studio model, where you have separate writers, pencilers, inkers and colorists. One can't afford have any chaotic working methods in such a situation.
However, when you do stuff (mostly) on your own, especially in the digital medium, you have free reign to do it in whatever way you want. Especially when working (semi)digitally, as it allows one to go back and tweak stuff. I do that all the time. 🙂
 
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Oh, I completely agree. Doing it yourself, most of what you're going to do is in your own head, and you have no one else to run things by. I'll admit that I approach my work with Agency Publishing a bit differently than the work I've done on my own. My personal preference is to plan ahead, but be flexible. I guess the bottom line is that people have to decide which approach best represents the type of artist they are and what they are trying to achieve.

To play devil's advocate here, I actually approach my writing far differently than my comic or artwork. With writing, there's little planning other than major plot points and characters. The meat of the stories tend to come out as I'm writing them.
 
Hey Bombers:

I definitely can't say what's wrong or right...but I can tell ya what I do and see if it helps.

1.) Start with a damn good idea of the entire story before you start. A finished script is a very good idea. If you wanna free wheel it, at least have an outline with every major event mapped out. Minimum.

2.) Storyboard or thumbnail. Quick sketches on crappy paper, or on the screen. Quick layouts for every single page. Nothing fancy. Don't get tight. Just very quick composition and flow sketches. Your final comic will be better because of it. Trust me.

3.) Once you get to each page - don't use templates of software. They look contrived and cheesy to me. Create the lay out yourself. on paper with a ruler. Yeah. Old school.

4.) Create the entire page just like it will look. One page. Draw on one page. You can piece it together, and a lot of people do that really well. But if the comic format is new to you, you're gonna get busy, messy, or confusing pages if you go about it scattershot at first. Keep it all on a single page.

5.) Lay out the entire page first - QUICKLY, leaving room for the text. it is so easy to work for an hour+ on a single panel, only to realize that it is too big, small, round, square, etc to fit the flow of the page, or that you didn't leave room for text, background, laughter, etc etc etc.

6.) Remember that comic format introduces entirely new elements to a project. On top of the typical composition, line, shape, design, layout, coloring, perspective, shading, anatomy, etc - you will now have to deal with the added pressure of a more complex focal point, pacing, timing, narrative flow, and story telling. Each page needs to have its own flow, as well as its own place in the flow of the whole comic.

7.) Consistency is pretty important. Line your layouts with the same pen size, and have the spaces always be the same. The borders between panels should be consistent. I draw at 11" x 17" and use 0.25" borders and spaces. It makes it look consistent.

8.) Break a panel or two. Remember that panels exist to divide the story into scenes...but breaking panel lines OCCASIONALLY can add a ton of visual interest.

9.) Panels per page doesn't matter to much. Some amazing artists like Scav do a lot. Some not so amazing artists like me only do a few. Don't cram too much, and don't leave too much emptiness. Only you can tell what is right and what is wrong for YOU.

10.) Keep it dynamic. Nothing kills a comic faster than a bunch of talking heads in perfect squares. Try some really freaky layouts and then trust your gut. Remember that this is more than just a single image. You're telling a story. Get excited, break rules, throw shit around. be naughty.

11.) Look at the pros. Find some comics you adore and steal their successful ideas. The pros got it going ON. And they've had more trial and error than any of us.

12.) Don't be afraid to rework a page. If you have a script or storyboards and it just is happenin' on your page. Scrap it. Start again. Wrestle it to the ground. You are the Bombers. Defeat is not an option. lmao.

Hope my little humble suggestions might help a bit.

Can't wait to see what you come up with.

B
 
Can't say it much better than that! Once again, Deet comes to the rescue. I like your take on being "dynamic". far too many fall into a set format that gets boring after awhile. I myself have had to go back and break things up a bit after looking at them, and there are still projects I've done that I wish I could go back and redo.
 
Very true. And actually a lot can change during the process. I'm a very chaotic comic artist. I tend to visualize key plot points and just fill up the stuff in between them as I get to those parts. I don't entirely agree on the 100% planned thing though.

He-he... Okay, I'll make it more feasible sounding...99.9% planned for me, and why?

My comic script is not conventional. After the storyline is done, I do "visual" script. It is not like the all written specs or texts. I have learned this from someone of reputation (in my locality). I really don't start any drawing without finishing my "visual script." Nevertheless, it is an organized attack for me. Yet still at times I have room for insertion as contingency.
 
Can't say it much better than that! Once again, Deet comes to the rescue. I like your take on being "dynamic". far too many fall into a set format that gets boring after awhile. I myself have had to go back and break things up a bit after looking at them, and there are still projects I've done that I wish I could go back and redo.

Thanks mate.

Not sure how much of a rescue it was...just my own humble thoughts on the subject.

I figure mixing it up is a good way to start. It's a lot easier to try to control it later, then to begin with the boring and try to break the mold later on.

^^;

B
 
I make my comix in a rather specialized way, relying on a sign-making computer program (Flexi-sign Pro) that will neither be easily accessible to most artists nor the software of choice for art applications. Therefore, most of what I have to say will be of academic, rather than practical, value.

My approach to page/panel layout is rather rudimentary and formalized. All my pages are horizontally oriented in a 3-to-4 ratio... the same dimensions as a TV or motion picture screen, prior to de facto widescreen. This fits the size requirements of the computer paper (typing paper, in the old days) that serves as my work medium; it fits my monitor dimensions rather neatly, too. I favor horizontal page orientation, as opposed to the more comix-traditional vertically oriented page, so as to eliminate the need for viewer scrolling. Paper comix pages are almost always viewed two at a time (the book open, pages spread), which amounts to a horizontal layout, regardless of individual page format. Since e-comix pages tend to be displayed individually, I find this longer orientation preferred.

Each page has a fixed four-panel division: the panels are oriented in a horizontal 3-to-4, same as the page. I strive for cinematic feel in my visuals, which this ratio accommodates quite nicely. The pair of upper or lower panels can be eliminated in favor of an extra long one (amounting to a cinematic pan shot), while the left or right pair can be jettisoned for an extra tall one (amounting to a camera tilt). For scenes that require great scope, the page can be taken up with a single large panel, filled with dramatic detail. These page/panel layouts pre-exist as templates in one of my Flexi-sign files. There are only six choices altogether: four panels, three panels (one, a tall panel), three panels (one, a wide panel), two panels (both tall), two panels (both wide), and one full-page panel. Of these, the two panel layouts are very rarely used; I rely on the four and three panel pages the most, with a full page panel often needed for the opening titles.

These page requirements are taken into account when I write the script, which always runs similar to this (from Chapter 18):

21/1. Tall panel: HA view, as the wagon breaks through into a rolling plain.

21/2. Fiona: This is it! The border of the Gloominvald! We're free at last! No more sprites, twisting trails or scanty horizons! It's fresh air and open roads from now on!

21/3. Feare: Patience, daughter. Don't be hasty... Miss Angie's yet to make her choice. You're welcome to travel with us to Bliss Harbor, child. Or free to return to Tabor County... Bandar-Thul is an expert guide and at your service. We'll not need his skills to reach the coast.

22/1. Bewildered Angie and eager Fiona.

22/2. Angie: Gosh... I dearly would love to see Daddy again. But... if it's all the same... if I may, I guess I will stay on. I'd hate to desert Fiona... I've come to love her, too. And she's taught me so terribly much! What a pity it would be to quit the lessons now!

22/3. Beaming Fiona, blushing Angie.

22/4. LS: on the hillside, a grazing manequi stares intently.


While scripting, attention is focused on dialogue rather than the upcoming graphics, as I have a good unspoken sense of what visuals I'll want (were I writing for another artist, the descriptions of action would be much more thorough). Storyboarding is the next step, and this is where initial visual concerns are addressed. I have a stored selection of storyboard templates, just as I do for the art pages. Below is an example of my thumbnail sketching. Note that it's extremely rushed and crude, scarcely better than stick-figure quality. These graphics are needed solely to work out spacial relationships, angles, close-ups vs. long shots, poses, and broad attitude; even then, they aren't adhered to religiously, so lavishing detailed attention on them is wasted effort.

It is vitally important to establish character placement, as the resulting word balloon placement depends on this. Once the storyboards are done, they guide the dialogue as it's typed into a page template within Flexi-sign Pro. A print is then made of the panels and wording: linework is added to the blank panels and around the text rather than vise versa, opposite to the way most comix artists approach the problem. This is necessary in the absence of a sophisticated imaging program, especially since my stories tend to be dialogue heavy. Raw linework is rescanned into Flexi-sign Pro so that it can be cleaned up; incoming images need to "vectorized" so that the program can manipulate them. Basically, vectorizing turns the lines into a series of connected dots; pulling on these dots will alter the shape of the image. This is useful for fixing irregular line thickness; eliminating extraneous lines (by erasing the dots); and, in very rare instances, redrawning detail. This last is not recommended for gross errors; one might just as well redraw the panel. Vectorizing does allow reworked art to be easily dropped in, however.

Once the linework has been streamlined to my satisfaction, block color can be added by grabbing the lines with the cursor and filling them in from Flexi-sign's pallet. Lines must be fully closed (no breaks between skin and clothing, for example) or bleed-through occurs. Pre-exisitng color selections are available, but I find most of them inadequate and prefer to wing it from the color wheel. This frequently leads to color inconsistency from page to page, as replicating a specific shade is always rough guesswork; any who've wondered why Sid's skintones vary wildly will now understand the reason.

With block coloring complete, a second print is made. Colored pencils are applied for highlights, shading, blending and special effects. This is the last step before scanning; all elements considered, a single page takes about a full day to complete. I don't work page by page, though; it proves more efficient to divide the labor into phases (scripting, storyboarding, dialogue fonts, linework, cleanup, gross color, detail color) and finish all the work in one phase before proceeding to the next. That's the ideal, but doing one thing exclusively for weeks can be highly monotonous; nowdays, I mix things up a bit more, working on lineart during the weekends (when I can devote a full day to it), while cleaning it up and adding color on weekdays (when I'm restricted to the evening hours). This schedule may have been completely rethought in a couple of months; even now, it's an evolving process.
 
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