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Critics Fear Collider Could Doom Earth, (or It's the End Of The World As We Know It)

AffectionateDan

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(and I feel fine) 😉

MEYRIN, Switzerland (June 29) - The most powerful atom-smasher ever built could make some bizarre discoveries, such as invisible matter or extra dimensions in space, after it is switched on in August.

But some critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists' wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead clump?

Ridiculous, say scientists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French initials CERN - some of whom have been working for a generation on the $5.8 billion collider, or LHC.

"Obviously, the world will not end when the LHC switches on," said project leader Lyn Evans.

David Francis, a physicist on the collider's huge ATLAS particle detector, smiled when asked whether he worried about black holes and hypothetical killer particles known as strangelets.

"If I thought that this was going to happen, I would be well away from here," he said.

The collider basically consists of a ring of supercooled magnets 17 miles in circumference attached to huge barrel-shaped detectors. The ring, which straddles the French and Swiss border, is buried 330 feet underground.

The machine, which has been called the largest scientific experiment in history, isn't expected to begin test runs until August, and ramping up to full power could take months. But once it is working, it is expected to produce some startling findings.

Scientists plan to hunt for signs of the invisible "dark matter" and "dark energy" that make up more than 96 percent of the universe, and hope to glimpse the elusive Higgs boson, a so-far undiscovered particle thought to give matter its mass.

The collider could find evidence of extra dimensions, a boon for superstring theory, which holds that quarks, the particles that make up atoms, are infinitesimal vibrating strings.

The theory could resolve many of physics' unanswered questions, but requires about 10 dimensions - far more than the three spatial dimensions our senses experience.

The safety of the collider, which will generate energies seven times higher than its most powerful rival, at Fermilab near Chicago, has been debated for years. The physicist Martin Rees has estimated the chance of an accelerator producing a global catastrophe at one in 50 million - long odds, to be sure, but about the same as winning some lotteries.

By contrast, a CERN team this month issued a report concluding that there is "no conceivable danger" of a cataclysmic event. The report essentially confirmed the findings of a 2003 CERN safety report, and a panel of five prominent scientists not affiliated with CERN, including one Nobel laureate, endorsed its conclusions.

Critics of the LHC filed a lawsuit in a Hawaiian court in March seeking to block its startup, alleging that there was "a significant risk that ... operation of the Collider may have unintended consequences which could ultimately result in the destruction of our planet."

One of the plaintiffs, Walter L. Wagner, a physicist and lawyer, said Wednesday CERN's safety report, released June 20, "has several major flaws," and his views on the risks of using the particle accelerator had not changed.

On Tuesday, U.S. Justice Department lawyers representing the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation filed a motion to dismiss the case.

The two agencies have contributed $531 million to building the collider, and the NSF has agreed to pay $87 million of its annual operating costs. Hundreds of American scientists will participate in the research.

The lawyers called the plaintiffs' allegations "extraordinarily speculative," and said "there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from black holes or other objects the LHC might produce. A hearing on the motion is expected in late July or August.

In rebutting doomsday scenarios, CERN scientists point out that cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth, and triggering collisions similar to those planned for the collider, since the solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago.

And so far, Earth has survived.

"The LHC is only going to reproduce what nature does every second, what it has been doing for billions of years," said John Ellis, a British theoretical physicist at CERN.

Critics like Wagner have said the collisions caused by accelerators could be more hazardous than those of cosmic rays.

Both may produce micro black holes, subatomic versions of cosmic black holes - collapsed stars whose gravity fields are so powerful that they can suck in planets and other stars.

But micro black holes produced by cosmic ray collisions would likely be traveling so fast they would pass harmlessly through the earth.

Micro black holes produced by a collider, the skeptics theorize, would move more slowly and might be trapped inside the earth's gravitational field - and eventually threaten the planet.

Ellis said doomsayers assume that the collider will create micro black holes in the first place, which he called unlikely. And even if they appeared, he said, they would instantly evaporate, as predicted by the British physicist Stephen Hawking.

As for strangelets, CERN scientists point out that they have never been proven to exist. They said that even if these particles formed inside the Collider they would quickly break down.

When the LHC is finally at full power, two beams of protons will race around the huge ring 11,000 times a second in opposite directions. They will travel in two tubes about the width of fire hoses, speeding through a vacuum that is colder and emptier than outer space.

Their trajectory will be curved by supercooled magnets - to guide the beams around the rings and prevent the packets of protons from cutting through the surrounding magnets like a blowtorch.

The paths of these beams will cross, and a few of the protons in them will collide, at a series of cylindrical detectors along the ring. The two largest detectors are essentially huge digital cameras, each weighing thousands of tons, capable of taking millions of snapshots a second.

Each year the detectors will generate 15 petabytes of data, the equivalent of a stack of CDs 12 miles tall. The data will require a high speed global network of computers for analysis.

Wagner and others filed a lawsuit to halt operation of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, or RHIC, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York state in 1999. The courts dismissed the suit.

The leafy campus of CERN, a short drive from the shores of Lake Geneva, hardly seems like ground zero for doomsday. And locals don't seem overly concerned. Thousands attended an open house here this spring.

"There is a huge army of scientists who know what they are talking about and are sleeping quite soundly as far as concerns the LHC," said project leader Evans.
 
Cool. I'll look forward to the results. The more we learn about the world around us, the better our lives get.
 
Hmmm...for some reason I thought the Large Hadron Collider (or one very similar) was used a couple months ago with no ill results (and with the same concerns prior). Could be mistaken, though. :atom:

Well, whatever. I'm more concerned about the experimental Large Hardon Collider. :upsidedow I fear its very existence will upset a lot of people, especially in this country.
 
Any lottery winners here?

"The safety of the collider, which will generate energies seven times higher than its most powerful rival, at Fermilab near Chicago, has been debated for years. The physicist Martin Rees has estimated the chance of an accelerator producing a global catastrophe at one in 50 million - long odds, to be sure, but about the same as winning some lotteries."

Well, I guess it (might be?) a half step better than the morbid curiousity that lead to the atomic bomb,

and then the nuclear capabilities that can blow this planet a few thousand times over,

and the slow environmental death our advanced & enlightened society has been speeding up exponentially this last decade

--you can now take a cruise through the North Pole to see for yourselves!! :disgust:

Still, I wouldn't want to push that button.

And I'm glad I don't have kids. :ermm:
 
wait...do they always say "Aw, it's safe! Nothing bad will happen!" in all the sci-fi movies, only to have it spawn large demons from another plane or fuse people to the floor??!??:shock::cry1:😱:scared::shake:
 
How exciting. 😀

Though I don't think even a collider of that size could create anything big or dangerous enough to affect the entire planet, black holes or not.

If anything, the lack of Swiss cheese would bring an end to MY world. 😵;;
 
wait...do they always say "Aw, it's safe! Nothing bad will happen!" in all the sci-fi movies, only to have it spawn large demons from another plane or fuse people to the floor??!??:shock::cry1:😱:scared::shake:

Sounds exactly like a movie I just watched.. The Myst. The government was doing experiments and accidentally opened a portal to another dimension that happened to be filled with monsters. Probably should start looking at building a bomb shelter..
 
Sounds exactly like a movie I just watched.. The Myst. The government was doing experiments and accidentally opened a portal to another dimension that happened to be filled with monsters. Probably should start looking at building a bomb shelter..

Bah... better make it an extradimensional shelter, or it won't be worth the MRE's you stock it with to eat afterwards.

Me, I'll be sitting out on the lawn shooting bottlerockets and roman candles with the stereo blasting, watching the end. :woot:
 
Oh PLEASE! If movies have taught us ANYTHING, it's that the worse case scenario in this situation is all of us dying.

...

Thought I suppose the next worst case scenario is a lot more acceptable to me: the lead scientist having his mechanical research arms fused to his back and becoming a super-villain.

... But then again, Spider-Man isn't real, so I suppose either way we'd be fucked.
 
... But then again, Spider-Man isn't real, so I suppose either way we'd be fucked.

WHAT?! he isn't?! well, shit...who authorized those 3 documentaries on him?

and Zen, i was combining Howard the Duck and The Philadelphia Experiment. but The Mist works, too. i saw those spiders coming at me, i'd become a born again Christian while they ate my fat ass.
 
Hmmm...for some reason I thought the Large Hadron Collider (or one very similar) was used a couple months ago with no ill results (and with the same concerns prior). Could be mistaken, though. :atom:

I believe they were due to switch the Large Hadron Collider on in May and exactly the same sort of nonsense was being bandied about before then, too. Dunno if that went ahead or what, but we're still here and not atomised into a singularity/ under attack by Lovecraftian interlopers from a future dimension/ transformed into strangelets as was predicted by some folk, so I can only assume that either a) the switch-on didn't go ahead or b) the doomsayers are fools. Of all the zany predictions put forth by folk my favourite came from a workmate with an interest in astrology, who proffered (with tongue firmly in cheek) that it would unlock the mystery of the Big Bang by creating another one, and the moment before the universe was disintegrated you'd invariably get some scientist standing next to the collider who'd notice something wrong with the figures and be all like, "Oh shit I forgot to carry the two!.... DAVE WAIT DON'T TURN IT-".... boom. 😀

Personally I say bring it on. There's only two ways it can go; it'll work and be useful and we'll be able to use it to study the universe in greater depth, or it'll cause some catastrophic event and kill us all in an instant in which case we'll all be dead and nobody will notice 😀
 
I knew it, i knew it!!!

I knew as soon as a sweed lead an nhl franchise to a championship that it was a sighn of the end. I just knew it!!!
 
So how long before they create a black hole that swallows up the solar system? I need to know when I can stop paying on my credit cards.
 
So how long before they create a black hole that swallows up the solar system? I need to know when I can stop paying on my credit cards.

In Penny Lane there is a bar they're showing photographs. I've seen them. They're all of some old bloke called Paul, and they're not very good.

Also you should be aware it is a scientifically proven fact that the destruction of the universe would not stop debt collectors hassling you for money.
 
IF Option # 2 is accurate...


"It'll be so quick, really, you won't feel a thing..."
:Hyrdrogen
 
Mankind was granted the gift of great intelligence and we will ultimately use it to destroy ourselves and every other living thing.:sowrong:
 

"It'll be so quick, really, you won't feel a thing..."
:Hyrdrogen
Well, that's no fun. Where's the "Kaboom!"? There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering "Kaboom!"
images
 
Awww The End of the World is so Pretty

As always, pics are from the Boston Globe's photo blog.

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 27 kilometer (17 mile) long particle accelerator straddling the border of Switzerland and France, is nearly set to begin its first particle beam tests. The European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) is preparing for its first small tests in early August, leading to a planned full-track test in September - and the first planned particle collisions before the end of the year. The final step before starting is the chilling of the entire collider to -271.25 C (-456.25 F). Here is a collection of photographs from CERN, showing various stages of completion of the LHC and several of its larger experiments (some over seven stories tall), over the past several years.

lhc1.jpg

lhc2.jpg

lhc3.jpg

lhc5.jpg

lhc6.jpg

lhc7.jpg

lhc8.jpg

lhc10.jpg

lhc11.jpg

lhc12.jpg

lhc13.jpg

lhc14.jpg

lhc15.jpg

lhc17.jpg

lhc18.jpg

lhc19.jpg

lhc20.jpg

lhc21.jpg

lhc22.jpg

lhc23.jpg

lhc24.jpg

lhc25.jpg

lhc26.jpg


Wanna get an idea how big this thing is?
Aerial view of CERN and the surrounding region of Switzerland and France. Three rings are visible, the smaller (at lower right) shows the underground position of the Proton Synchrotron, the middle ring is the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) with a circumference of 7 km and the largest ring (27 km) is that of the former Large Electron and Positron collider (LEP) accelerator with part of Lake Geneva in the background. (© CERN)
lhc27.jpg


If this thing doesn't fire, and doesn't destroy the world, God help the man who is told "dammit Bob, there is a wire unplugged somewhere...get in there and find it" :yowzer:
 
Wow, I wish I understood what the hell all of that means, lol.

So, is this that contraption that's suppose to find the 'god' particle, or is that a different collider?
 
Yeah I don't really understand what all that is about, but it sher is perty.
 
Why's it gotta be so pretty yet so scary all at once? That thing just screams "jack with me, i'm all colorful!"
 
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