Hard Decisions

[BlackestLily]

What are your own personal rules for how to muddle through making a hard decision? Can you give an example of a very difficult one you had and your thought process for how you got out and onto the other side of it?

 

[kcantankerous]

I agonize and agonize and eventually make a choice and live with the consequences. I've taken many risks that did not pan out. I wont lie each failure was very painful to me. Depending on the degree of failure I sometimes get depressed and or contemplate suicide. Eventually though my support group lifts me up and I continue to fight again.

I am a pessimist that takes risks sometimes like an optimist. I do a wacky form of cost benefit analysis and sometimes it works and sometimes I royally screw myself.

Hope this was answered according to your instructions.

Thanks
K

 

[MaleTickleeDC]

Two things that I find make hard decisions so hard are the lack of information that would allow us to see how things would turn out, and the emotions that we experience as the result of making the decision. Obviously nothing can be done about the first obstacle. We can't go forward in time and see how things will turn out depending on what we decide. I actually think that simply accepting that a decision HAS to be made, and that there's no way of knowing whether what we choose is the right path, but that we're going to do our best in making the choice, is very important to the process and prevents a lot of the second guessing that prevents us from moving forward.

But as far as the emotional aspect of decision-making goes, I think it's important to stay logical. When I say that, I don't mean that we should try to shut off our emotions when making decisions. That would be silly. When making decisions, we're trying to select the course of action that will be best for us, and how we feel about everything involved has to come into play, because we should ultimately want to be happy with the end result, and happiness is an emotion. So when I say that it's important to remain logical, I mean that it's important to analyze the whole situation, emotions and all, in a rational way. For example, I recently had an old friend try to convince me to move back to a bigger city where I used to live. I liked living in that city, and it would probably be a lot more fun than where I am now. I have a portable job, essentially, so it wouldn't be impossible for me to continue my career in that city as opposed to where I am now. I actually considered it, but then I realized that financially it made no sense, for all sorts of reasons, including the fact that my cost of living would go way up, and my income wouldn't go up nearly enough to match it. There are other financial negatives that are very private that I won't get into on this site, but let's just say that if I moved, there's a very good chance it would cost me a lot of money in the long run, and if I stay here for a couple of more years, I will save a lot of money. So I decided to stay. I didn't let my memories of living in this place or hanging out with my old friends overcome the reality of the financial situation that wasn't going to change just because I wanted it to.

So that's what I mean by evaluating a situation logically. It's easy to let the way we feel about those close to us cloud our judgment. This is especially true when people are trying to decide whether to stay in bad relationships, etc.

 

[Mitchell]

In the case of the example I'm going to use, it was a choice of whether the negatives outweighed the positives.

I dont know how closely you've read my posts, Lily, but.. in November 2010, , I ended my relationship with my best friend of 29 years, at the same time my mom had cancer. I'm an only child, so he was like the brother I never had.. at one point.

My ex best friend's mother has always hated me, because I have not allowed myself to be controlled by, and I am estranged from, my father, who was abusive to me my whole life, and has treated me terribly. . My ex best friend's sister was not close to her parents, and the mother blamed me for "showing the sister the way", because the sister didnt want her mother to control the sister's life.

For years, my ex best friend allowed his mother to control our friendship. The mother would say the worst things about me, and make up vicious lies. His mother kept saying that if he met a girl, he wouldnt need to see me anymore. This is precisely how our friendship ended.

In late 2010, my ex best friend met a girl. He started blowing me off, and never making time for me, yet made time to see his other friends, his parents, and his gf. Additionally, my mom had a long hospitalization, and he never called, or came by to see us during that.

As upset as I was, I couldnt take him allowing his mother to control our friendship anymore, and that , I, his best friend of 29 years.. didnt matter anymore, merely because he had met someone a month before.

One week, he did his usual blow off of me, and I told him that I couldnt see any point to continuing on with him, with the way he was treating me. He replied that he agreed that we should part. Fine. Doing so was very painful, and I'm still not completely over it, but I feel better than I did when it happened.

I found out through a friend of mine, a reliable source, who I talk to regularly, and who doesnt talk to my ex best friend, that my ex best friend isnt even with his gf anymore. They are just now "friends", and she is dating someone else. As this friend of mine said, he fucked a 29 year friendship for someone he had met a month before, and isnt even with her anymore.

Having to disassociate from him was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do. We lived far apart for many years, and I traveled long distances to see him. When we lived near each other, I saw him every week, so not having that the past year, has been an adjustment.

Anyhow, that's my reply to this topic.

Mitch

 

[Jagermeistered]

The sensitivity of decision-making, depends on your level of selfishness(on a personal level).

When decision-making is more focused on the affairs of others. Put yourself in their shoes with all known variables(choices) - that you are presented with.

 

[unclebill]

I`ve never been shy about discussing difficult situations over with a trusted friend or relative, and if possible I sleep on it. The next morning I go with my gut feeling. As long as I can look at myself in the mirror, I will live with the consequences of my decision.....good or bad.

 

[Mitchell]

Jager, in the case I described, I did put myself in his shoes. For eleven years, my ex best friend only saw me on his schedule, the schedule that his mother dictated. He would make time for everyone else, and put me in a scheduled window, etc.

I also considered how I treated him when I had many other friends, and a gf. When I was in college, and afterward, I had many other friends, a gf, etc. Between that, and my schoolwork that often consumed me seven days a week, I ALWAYS made time to see him, and never blew him off because I had work, other friends, a gf, etc. I made it known that he was an important part of my life. Also, as badly as my controlling relatives treated me, they never came inbetween my friendship with him, even when i was a child, like he allowed his mother to, even when he was an adult. I didnt allow my relatives to control my friendship with him, when I was a child. or an adult. Nor did they ever try to control it.

I had no alternative. I probably put up with how he treated me for too long. His behavior forced my hand into doing something I didnt want to do. I'm not happy about it, but as I said before, he left me no other choice.

Mitch

 

[Jagermeistered]

Jager, in the case I described, I did put myself in his shoes. For eleven years, my ex best friend only saw me on his schedule, the schedule that his mother dictated. He would make time for everyone else, and put me in a scheduled window, etc.

I also considered how I treated him when I had many other friends, and a gf. When I was in college, and afterward, I had many other friends, a gf, etc. Between that, and my schoolwork that often consumed me seven days a week, I ALWAYS made time to see him, and never blew him off because I had work, other friends, a gf, etc. I made it known that he was an important part of my life. Also, as badly as my controlling relatives treated me, they never came inbetween my friendship with him, even when i was a child, like he allowed his mother to, even when he was an adult. I didnt allow my relatives to control my friendship with him, when I was a child. or an adult. Nor did they ever try to control it.

I had no alternative. I probably put up with how he treated me for too long. His behavior forced my hand into doing something I didnt want to do. I'm not happy about it, but as I said before, he left me no other choice.

Mitch

Mitch - my friend,

My post wasn't in reference to your story, but my own philosophy. It is pretty vague, but a foundation; that is all.

 

[Mitchell]

One final thing:

Another example of how I put myself in his shoes, and thought of him first.. for two decades.

As I posted before, his mother would say the most evil things to me, to my face, regarding my situation with my father, money, etc. He never defended me, or told her she was crossing the line, and to quit it. It wasnt until she told him I was "using" him, because I stayed at his apt for several days in 1998 when I was looking for apts, that I told her to go fuck herself. She said I was using him, after he and his friends used my homes as their hotels, etc. I put up with her verbal abuse for years, and never made an issue of it to her face, because I knew he was too afraid to deal with her. I not only put myself in his shoes, but I put up with abuse, to spare him from having to confront his mother about her anti social despicable behavior. This, after I spent my life since I was 18, always confronting my father about his abusive behavior. I catered to my ex best friend's sickness with his mother, at the expense of myself. If that isnt putting myself in his shoes, I dont know what is.

Mitch

 

[Mitchell]

I understand. Thanks for clarifying that. I just wanted to make my point is all.

Mitch

 

[Bothersome]

In any tough decision I try and think to all possible (immediate) outcomes of my final decision. (Assuming I have time to think through them all.)

After that, I look through the outcomes and determine which one has the least amount of negative consequences for myself, my friends, my family, and any other loved ones.

If I cannot find an outcome that has more benefits than consequences, then I'll flip a coin and hope the shit doesn't hit the fan too hard.

 

[Marquis De Sade]

What are your own personal rules for how to muddle through making a hard decision? Can you give an example of a very difficult one you had and your thought process for how you got out and onto the other side of it?

I honestly can't think of a personal example at the moment so if I do I'll post something. But as a general rule of my own, when things get really complicated I find the easiest and simplest thing to do is to remove all emotion and personal attachment from the equation. If you look at things in black and white the answer is often crystal clear as to how to handle it.

Here's one very generic but extreme example: A guy and girl are engaged and have been together for five years, their families are close, they live together, wedding has been planned, invites designed, honeymoon paid for in advance, dress picked out and the want of children has been agreed on. Then she finds out he had sex with another woman while they were together.

The hard part is all the history, emotion, family ties, memories, hopes for the future, etc. Remove all of that and you're left with: Guy cheated on his fiancee. This is bad. Trust has been broken. Leave him.

It's easier said than done of course. But at least you have a resolution staring you in the face you can choose to carry out.

 

[Libertine]

Two quotes which in combination have helped me:

It is even better to act quickly and err than to hesitate until the time of action is past.

And:

Even when the likelihood of success is against us, we must not think of our undertaking as unreasonable or impossible; for it is always reasonable if we do not know of anything better to do.

From 'On War', by Major-General Carl von Clauswitz, (1760-1831)

 

[paracarl44]

Try The Ben Franklin Balance Sheet.

List all of the positive things.

Then list all of the negative things.

Which out weights the other?

 

[BlackestLily]

I agonize and agonize and eventually make a choice and live with the consequences. I've taken many risks that did not pan out. I wont lie each failure was very painful to me.

If it's not too personal, could you perhaps give an example of a difficult decision you had to make and how it panned out?

Two things that I find make hard decisions so hard are the lack of information that would allow us to see how things would turn out, and the emotions that we experience as the result of making the decision. Obviously nothing can be done about the first obstacle. We can't go forward in time and see how things will turn out depending on what we decide. I actually think that simply accepting that a decision HAS to be made, and that there's no way of knowing whether what we choose is the right path, but that we're going to do our best in making the choice, is very important to the process and prevents a lot of the second guessing that prevents us from moving forward.

Yes, I will confess, this is definitely a very generic post that reflects on something that I've been thinking a long time about. The decision I make could affect my future years from now. I'm definitely experiencing the hard emotions that's coming from living with such an uncertain feeling. I really enjoy getting feedback about what other people's feelings are on things (as this thread indicates) and from my own personal life have been receiving a LOT of mixed feedback from co-workers, friends, and family. I find each of these groups to offer something very valuable and it's challenging to balance out which I find to be the most sound advice and choice.

In the case of the example I'm going to use, it was a choice of whether the negatives outweighed the positives.

I dont know how closely you've read my posts, Lily, but.. in November 2010, , I ended my relationship with my best friend of 29 years, at the same time my mom had cancer. I'm an only child, so he was like the brother I never had.. at one point.

My ex best friend's mother has always hated me, because I have not allowed myself to be controlled by, and I am estranged from, my father, who was abusive to me my whole life, and has treated me terribly. . My ex best friend's sister was not close to her parents, and the mother blamed me for "showing the sister the way", because the sister didnt want her mother to control the sister's life.

For years, my ex best friend allowed his mother to control our friendship. The mother would say the worst things about me, and make up vicious lies. His mother kept saying that if he met a girl, he wouldnt need to see me anymore. This is precisely how our friendship ended.

In late 2010, my ex best friend met a girl. He started blowing me off, and never making time for me, yet made time to see his other friends, his parents, and his gf. Additionally, my mom had a long hospitalization, and he never called, or came by to see us during that.

As upset as I was, I couldnt take him allowing his mother to control our friendship anymore, and that , I, his best friend of 29 years.. didnt matter anymore, merely because he had met someone a month before.

One week, he did his usual blow off of me, and I told him that I couldnt see any point to continuing on with him, with the way he was treating me. He replied that he agreed that we should part. Fine. Doing so was very painful, and I'm still not completely over it, but I feel better than I did when it happened.

I found out through a friend of mine, a reliable source, who I talk to regularly, and who doesnt talk to my ex best friend, that my ex best friend isnt even with his gf anymore. They are just now "friends", and she is dating someone else. As this friend of mine said, he fucked a 29 year friendship for someone he had met a month before, and isnt even with her anymore.

Having to disassociate from him was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do. We lived far apart for many years, and I traveled long distances to see him. When we lived near each other, I saw him every week, so not having that the past year, has been an adjustment.

Anyhow, that's my reply to this topic.

Mitch

Yes, I can relate on some level with having to purge friends from my life that I've cared deeply for, and it was a very painful process.

The sensitivity of decision-making, depends on your level of selfishness(on a personal level).

When decision-making is more focused on the affairs of others. Put yourself in their shoes with all known variables(choices) - that you are presented with.

Can you give me an example where this theory applies to something you've personally been through?

I`ve never been shy about discussing difficult situations over with a trusted friend or relative, and if possible I sleep on it. The next morning I go with my gut feeling. As long as I can look at myself in the mirror, I will live with the consequences of my decision.....good or bad.

You and I are a lot the same in the discussing with others. I don't pretend I know what's going on all of the time and love to hear the different perspectives so I can filter and find what's true for me.

In any tough decision I try and think to all possible (immediate) outcomes of my final decision. (Assuming I have time to think through them all.)

After that, I look through the outcomes and determine which one has the least amount of negative consequences for myself, my friends, my family, and any other loved ones.

If I cannot find an outcome that has more benefits than consequences, then I'll flip a coin and hope the shit doesn't hit the fan too hard.

Ugh, the shit hitting the proverbial fan in a hard way is exactly what I'm afraid of. I have had the luxury of being able to make carefully planned, precise decisions in my life that tend to always be of the best benefit. This is probably one of the first times where I see equal downfalls and benefits on each side, and short of seeing into the future, I am incredibly worried about stepping down a path that will lead me away from where I want to be.

I honestly can't think of a personal example at the moment so if I do I'll post something. But as a general rule of my own, when things get really complicated I find the easiest and simplest thing to do is to remove all emotion and personal attachment from the equation. If you look at things in black and white the answer is often crystal clear as to how to handle it.

Yes very true. Oddly for being as logically minded as I am, my emotions are really clogging me up this time.

Two quotes which in combination have helped me:

It is even better to act quickly and err than to hesitate until the time of action is past.

And:

Even when the likelihood of success is against us, we must not think of our undertaking as unreasonable or impossible; for it is always reasonable if we do not know of anything better to do.

From 'On War', by Major-General Carl von Clauswitz, (1760-1831)

These are seriously thought provoking. Is there anything present in your life that tends to direct your decisions more than others?

List all of the positive things.

Then list all of the negative things.

Which out weights the other?

I've been making the list mentally, but at this point I'm getting prepared for the paper version.

 

[paracarl44]

How are you coming along? Are you thinking about a career change? Or moving?