hardcore bondage TK, a vanishing art

[majdav]

This is not a bash, not a flame, just an observation from a male that knows hardcore bondage and true tickle scenes and who would like to see material SOMETIMES kicked up a notch for the benefit of all.

It's my opinion that although tickle producers put out a lot of material at a fast and furious pace, putting out a lot of material doesn't mean it's a lot of quality material. Yes, we all love a pretty girl but faking it is easily detected.

Much of it can't be called bondage too, unless in the symbolic way. A lot of girls kicking and squirming about. If it's so loose, then why even use bondage at all? If they're so ticklish, why not get up and run? The material is never original.

I understand and totally support that many like it to be light, fun, and fantasy like. But all the time? Please be fair to some of us who need a bit more.

Severe tickle scenes and hard bondage are a vanishing art. The titles of these films and these sites are greater than the material. Everyone loves a Bishop drawing of bondage tickling but only a handful can do it. Labled hardcore places like insex and hogtie have not done it justice. Only a couple tops in the community have ever mastered the mix of hardcore and tickling.

Why can't they work hand in hand with the producers of today? Same for the producers of today- why can't you work with the masters of the art? Everyone just check their egos and affiliations and prejudices and and film?

I'm not bashing or attacking producers. I realize they do the best they can do. It's clear though that these guys are far from the experts in tickling they claim to be. Same for bondage, set design, and concept. They're trying to make a buck and that they do well. So when you're not the best at it, why not get the ones who are and film them? Wouldn't you double your sales?

I base my opinion off seeing other's materials at a party not long ago. Though this material is rarely shown, it far outshines all these producers put together in original concept, bondage, and intensity.

So there's the two sides of the coin. One side puts out a lot of lesser quality work to make quick sales and the other side can do fantastic quality but doesn't put out enough or at all!

Question is, how do we get them to work together so we all benefit?


This is a serious and legit question- not open to defensive posts and nasty squawking or bitter opinions going back and forth. If you have something intelligent to offer, something beneficial or supportive, please post.

 

[Relent<]

I know how you mean. I...erm...know how you mean. <_<
As a ler and even as a lee, strict bondage; very VERY strict bondage is a necessity. You have to rummage in the BDSM and pick out the little tickling excerpts for satisfaction. Insex does it pretty well 😉

 

[johnttickle]

I love buried in sand tickling, the lee can't move a muscle.
Only the head and feet are showing, and that is all they can move. HeHe!!!
Oh the look on the lees face when you show them a feather and tell them what is about to happen. I love to play that out before the tickling begins.
Oh just thinking about it, I need to grab one of my lees and head to the other side of the island. That is where the beaches are on the big island, on the west side.

Aloha, John.

 

[Violetta]

That works fine for the one setting, John. But not all producers are gonna run out to the beach and do their filming publicly like that. While it's effective, it's hardly practical. And the bondage problem really does exist in videos. I've seen tons of clips of people tied (to varying degrees of effectiveness) to themselves or chairs or whatnot. But where's the furniture? Where's the hard tying?

If the companies in question can make so many videos (and we must therefore assume making a profit on them) why can't they splurge a bit to get something a bit more elaborate setup in the name of more effective bondage?

I understand that there's some companies that don't go that direction. They want to appeal to the lighter side of the community, and that's totally fair. Shutting that side off would be just plain wrong as well as stupid from a business sense. But it seems like the more intense side gets ignored quite a bit. As consumers, it does seem like we demand a lot sometimes (ticklish models, better bondage, more intense tickling), but sometimes I think a little variety in the selection of vids out there would go a long ways to make some of this quiet down.

 

[Cavum]

95% of all tickle material on the marked these days are crap! Pure and simple!
Poor bondage and non ticklish models. It's been a LONG time since I saw something that really was wicked tickle torture.

 

[Kildre22]

I hear you loud and clear.

But then there will always be dungeonmaidens, one of the best producers out there imo. Mind you I dearly wish they could make more material, but I can understand how hard it would be to find models willing enough for that.

 

[babinsky1]

95% of all tickle material on the marked these days are crap! Pure and simple!
Poor bondage and non ticklish models. It's been a LONG time since I saw something that really was wicked tickle torture.

Yes..Very well said. Everyone's out for a quick buck.

 

[P[a]pi]

I understand what is being said, but I feel like the possibility of what you all want occurring is small. And I feel that way for several reasons, but the main reason is the performers (lers and lees) tastes.

I'm gonna say some general things, that I know don't apply to everybody. So, I'm gonna just say the "consumers."

The consumers want the lee to be "hot." So, she is gonna mostly likely be a model who might have some kind of porn back ground. She isn't trying to be "hardcore tickled." She is just trying to make money.

The consumers want "hardcore" bondage. Well, most chicks that want to be put in hardcore bondage don't want to be tickled. They want to be spanked hard, whipped, pierced, nipple clamped, penetrated, give oral, receive an orgasm, etc. They are trying to make money and get off, so tickling isn't really on their mind.

The consumers want the ler to be "hot." This statement means no male lers for some consumers unfortanately haha. So, you go find another hot model who is just trying to get paid. She doesn't want to "hardcore tickle" anybody and even if she wants to, she doesn't really know how to.

Now, you could go find that rare female who wants to be put in hardcore bondage and tickle tortured, but she probably isn't going to be considered "hot" by the masses. I'm just saying that statistically the chance of a model-like chick wanting that done to her is low.

And the experienced bondage/tickling master has a low chance of having that look as well for the same statistical reason.



So, producers focus on what is most abundant. The models. And that is why clips are the way they are.

And also, the rare groups and couples that do more hardcore bondage and tickling, usually choose not to share their sessions. Maybe they don't share their sessions through pics or clips because they think they are better than the non-hardcore people. Maybe because they don't want money anyway and they don't feel its worth the time and effort to put stuff out for free. Maybe it's a privacy issue or a respect issue. It could be all or any of these things. I don't know.



I realize that what Meka and I contribute doesn't involve any hardcore bondage furniture or begging, but I do think or bondage is good for what we have to work with, and the tickling is definately real.

We recorded a session that was great in my opinion, but unfortunately after we were done we realized that our cheap-o video recorder froze. So, we gotta buy a new one that costs more, so it won't die on us haha. She was in our chair that we use as stocks with her big toes tied together and back. And each toe next to her pinky were tied back.

Her feet were tickled by my hands, then feathers which turned her on, then forks which hurt her a little, then I put lotion on her feet and used the fork some more. And finally I scratched the shit out off them with my hands. And she was going crazy.

I was so disappointed that our video recorder froze. I really wanted to share that session with everybody. And one reason why is that I want to add more media that is of (or at least similar) to the type you all are talking about and wanting to see.



I feel like if some or even a lot of our members in our community contributed stuff here of themselves for free then that would help. Then we wouldn't need to rely on producers.

Sorry for such a long post haha.

 

[TickleKay]

This is a really interesting thread with great points from Sammi, and Majdave and everyone--- some, like Cavum and myself, who desire hardcore/headspace/realism.

I also loved the buried in the sand post for it's one of my favorite bondages and what we've been doing for the past three weekends! (no producer to date has ever captured a real one on film yet, and not even staged a good one).

Also I have to say I completely enjoyed great insider (possible) explainations offered by the likes of Papi.

Agreed! Most films today should just forget about bondage completely. Even the tickling is faked. The girls are very pretty, yes. But how many of us can compete with models?

Tickle producers today do not care about quality- they care about sales. Their materials will be forgotten by the next day, and they don't care because by then they will have made five more films to sell. It IS about the hottest topless babe. They know many guys will shell out any amount money for the worst stuff out there. If people stopped buying then they'd have to kick up the quality. But that will never happen.

Then again, why should it? It's an open market and a free country. If they want to sell whatever it they label it as, let them. I myself know it's not a tickle terror or horror or intense or whatever they call it, because I personally know the true meaning of that word; and they aren't coming close. But I'm not buying it. They're selling, and that's all they care about.

I know where majdav and the others are coming from and honestly I come from the same place. It would be great to see it equalled out. To show "our side". But it would be attacked a million times over here and never accepted.

The realistic and intense side has never been accepted from the guy (or guys?) who created this very tickling fetish so long ago. They were attacked too. So it would still be attacked.

I also know what Maj's suggesting and it's a great idea! I'll state in my opinion what I think he and Papi alluded to and hope I don't get flamed in the process.

The best of the best (some underground) at this particular style of realism, hardcore, headspace, great bondage and originality are people like Kujman, Sir Michael, and Millani, in that order. It's not arguable, not debatable it. No one can top what they do. It annoys producers (and some male egos) who then attack them. They in turn shun the tk community for their shallowness. It's a bad circle in which everyone loses, one that should be broken.

Their trick is simply no tricks. It's real as you see it. They take a dream, a drawing, an idea, and make it appear. They avoid models looking for a buck. They use genuine folks- like myself- from the world who are into it, into them, or doing it for whatever purpose. Many from just the bdsm world.

If producers really wanted the sales to triple and actually did care about quality, as majdav suggests, they'd get those people to do the rigging and use their creative abilities to make a tickling scene absolutely unforgettable. The marketing alone would sell a million.

Will it ever happen? Who knows? I hope so. If they ever filmed just a certain theme party I attend it would put every producer here out of business for good. That makes people nervous / nervous people do and post drastic things.

This I do believe: as per your suggestion, the first tickling producer out there to snag one of these boys and make a series of films with them and market their name will make a mint.

Which is what they want to do anyway, right?

 

[P[a]pi]

Even though my first post in here sounded harsh against producers there are some producers that I do like. And some that I do like others don't like, but oh well. A producer can't please everybody.

And like some of the new stuff coming out recently as well as some old stuff.

So, even though I agree that it would be a good thing if more hardcore bondage and tickling were available, I'm not that bothered by the current way things are.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

I'm finding that my tastes of late are veering more towards the incidental tickling of producers like Hogtied, Insex, and others. While it may be brief, I'd rather see that sort of difficult situation than much of the silly stuff geared to your average tickling fan.

 

[P[a]pi]

I thought this was a new thread haha, so I'm reading down then I see my two posts, and I'm like damn it! haha

Anyways... I'm really into pics now, whether they be of real people, drawn or 3D.

I still buy clips occasionally of my two favorite companies, which a lot of people hammer for being fake, but I their bondage and style haha. And sometimes the lees are actually tickled well haha.

 

[Meka1]

I thought this was a new thread haha, so I'm reading down then I see my two posts, and I'm like damn it! haha

Anyways... I'm really into pics now, whether they be of real people, drawn or 3D.

I still buy clips occasionally of my two favorite companies, which a lot of people hammer for being fake, but I their bondage and style haha. And sometimes the lees are actually tickled well haha.

now...who's a dork?..yes i think that'd be you!