Homo homini lupus

[Smoten]

Why do people gotta be bastards? While I was at work today, there was a shooting at a paint store two blocks down the road. A man came in to work, shot his boss, barricaded himself in a car and shot himself when the cops attempted to break in. That is some seriously fucked up shit. You like to think to yourself "that kinda stuff just doesn't happen here," but it does. It's just so unnerving when it happens so close.

At times like these I feel bitterly and painfully reminded that humanity's advancements and progress in science has been directly proportional to our capacity for killing each other. It's scary to think that we have long since reached its pinnacle when we developed atomic weaponry with the capability of completely annihilating ourselves. Thankfully, despite the countless atrocities humanity has committed upon itself, we're mostly in agreement that mutually assured self-destruction is a bad idea and I take solace in that.

I'm just sick and tired of all the senseless violence. It just breaks my heart when the wonderful world we live in is marred by such ugliness. In truth, none of us really know what we're doing here, nor do we really have an over all goal; we're all just trying to give our lives meaning and purpose. So why do people have to be bastards?

 

[dentrag1231]

That's not being a bastard, that's being mentally ill.

 

[Smoten]

That's not being a bastard, that's being mentally ill.

I'm sorry, but no. Making the conscious decision to murder someone and then offing yourself to avoid the consequences is not a mental illness. That is just shifting the blame and quite frankly, I find it offensive.

 

[dentrag1231]

Well, I'm sorry, but committing murder followed by suicide is not the action of a sane individual.

 

[Smoten]

He knew exactly what he was doing and when he got corned, he took the coward's way out. There was cold hearted reasoning and rational behind his actions. You may not like it, but people do horrible things sometimes. All we can do is accept what has happened and move on, doubling our efforts to make the world a better place to live.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Does anyone else find it concerning that a mass amount of people now a days are willing to kill themselves after committing a major crime? I agree with Smoten though; that's not insanity. It's the sign of someone who just doesn't care anymore.

 

[Smoten]

Maybe they think they're robbing humanity the satisfaction of atonement for their crimes. Maybe they're trying to make a splash and get their fifteen minutes of infamy. Maybe they're wracked with guilt. Whatever their reason, it's pissing me off!

 

[Beckers1]

There is definitely consideration behind his motive for doing it, but the lack of empathy for the people involved in his plans is pretty much the mindset of a sociopath.

 

[solleticoso1]

Wow!!

So someone know this latin expression, in the forum... good.

Being off topic, I know... well, I think that a person whith no "emotive" or "menthal" Brakes coul be considered an ill person, after all...

Even if you could say it's "easy" for him/her... that's not.

 

[Smoten]

There is definitely consideration behind his motive for doing it, but the lack of empathy for the people involved in his plans is pretty much the mindset of a sociopath.

You could say that about almost any murderer. One display of sociopathic behavior isn't indicative of anything. The shooter was a 64 year old truck driver with no prior history of violence, nor did he have criminal record. This very much came out of the blue and was shocking to everyone. When one has a mental illness, they can't help but be what they are; it doesn't pop up all the sudden like. Labeling murders as mentally ill takes away the accountability of their actions and places it squarely on the disease. I for one refuse to do that.

Wow!!

So someone know this latin expression, in the forum... good.

Thank you, I was beginning to wonder if anyone else would get it. For those of you who don't, it means "Man is a wolf to Man."

 

[Beckers1]

You could say that about almost any murderer. One display of sociopathic behavior isn't indicative of anything. The shooter was a 64 year old truck driver with no prior history of violence, nor did he have criminal record. This very much came out of the blue and was shocking to everyone. When one has a mental illness, they can't help but be what they are; it doesn't pop up all the sudden like. Labeling murders as mentally ill takes away the accountability of their actions and places it squarely on the disease. I for one refuse to do that."

This is going based of the few facts given here, Sociopaths are often highly intellectual individuals and often quite charismatic who are able to identify what is right and wrong, but don't care. Hard to identify unless looking intimately for symptoms.

It could be just a crime of passion, where his emotions dictated his actions. But if it was as cunning as you suggest, then that is not a normal persons reasoning for murder.

I am not attempting to give the guy a scapegoat for his actions, he made the decision to do it. Not every sociopath is a murderer, he still made a poor choice.

I am just saying a normal person wouldn't consider a murder/suicide the right choice in any situation unless they were desperate. If every sane person entertained the notion when complications arose we'd be in one hell of a doomed society.

 

[Smoten]

You're right. You bring up many valid points and I agree we don't have enough information to conclusively say one way or the other. Regardless, it's still an act of senseless violence and I reserve the right to call him a bastard for it.

 

[Beckers1]

Of course, his actions show little consideration for anyone but himself. He is still a monster for what he's done, and I hope the families involved are able to cope. My condolences to them and your neighbourhood, life is too beautiful to waste away like that.

 

[Regal]

So one guy shoots another guy and this inspires you to go into a small, pseudo rant concerning man's inhumanity to man & the meaning of life? Give me a break. People have been killing each other since the stone age. Get over it, dude. Did it ever occur to you that maybe this guy had a vendetta with his boss? Some people straight up deserve to die so perhaps the shooter felt that way about his boss. Hell, there's some people I'd like to shoot(Ken Ham probably being at the top of that list).

If one small act of violence is enough to make you feel this way then you must have more of a sheltered life than I do.

 

[Rainbow Star]

Same with every other murder/suicide that has happened over the past 2000 years...it's still not the way for someone to deal with their problems with another individual or group of individuals (keeping in mind the high school murder/suicides over the past 50 years) But ultimately, he will get what he deserves...the Ultimate Judgment. I just hope I get judged rightly and justly when that day comes.

 

[Lee47]

Homo Homini Lupus?

Wow!!

So someone know this latin expression, in the forum....

And yet misapplied it.

"Man is a wolf to other men"... by that, did you mean that we have a rich social life, nurture our young, and kill only for food? (Yeah, I swiped that from Sir Terry Pratchett, who has a character make the same critique of the motto in one of his novels.)

Wolves in their own packs are generally very peaceful and devoted to one another, and the alpha male is very very solicitous of the females and young. Papa Wolf is a much better protector than Papa Bear. Of course, between packs wolves do fight over hunting rights, like all predators, but wolves don't kill for sport or cruelty, and they don't kill humans except in the worst times of starvation (when their normal prey can't be found) or when humans provoke them. They also usually don't fight to the death, only to submission so that pack order can be established. (Exceptions occur when a new alpha male takes over, there may be massacres of the young, etc.; but the difference is that this is genetic programming, not a conscious choice by the wolf.)

Men are MEN to other men, and that is the problem. The animal kingdom, which we have been taught that we are separate and somehow superior to, provides many examples of ways to resolve conflicts non-violently (or less violently) which we could profit by.

Naturally I sympathize with anyone who loses a loved one to violence, but please don't compare the perpetrator to any animal other than the human. We're quite reprehensible enough as it is. Don't tar the wolves with the same brush.

 

[the_jimmy_james]

lol @ thinking people are inherently different from animals

We are animals. Our minds are far more advanced, but we're still driven at our core by the same needs and desires that drive, say, shitty-ass arthropods and mindless fish. Killing for our own gain is instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers...but we're not going to kill...today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill...today!

Sadly, though, sometimes people don't make that choice, or are unable to make the correct choice. I myself do rather look upon criminal behavior as a sort of mental sickness. It may be by nature (mental defect) or nurture (environment has led one to choose crime over lawful life.) In some extreme cases, there's desperation, yes, but I think many of the really heinous crimes are due to something wrong in the mind.

What oh what will we do? Oh no, there's all these people that are terrible and bad and shit. What the fuck will we do?

Grow up! We've got something for that. The law. The word of the law is just and impartial. What we need is a complete burn-to-the-ground and re-building of the criminal justice system. Not the law, and not the courts, but law enforcement, our prosecutors, the collusion between them, and most of all our prisons. Our prison system is based on punishment, not rehabilitation, and that's the root of the problem there.

But otherwise, the system works. Those who are truly sick can be identified and helped. Those who aren't and simply need time away from society... Well, sadly they get shoved in with other criminals and a "tough, hard prison life" that will often do nothing but speed them along on their course toward destruction.

Nothing's perfect, so let's focus on fixing this shit, huh?

 

[Senshi1]

lol @ thinking people are inherently different from animals

This...

Nothing's perfect, so let's focus on fixing this shit, huh?

..and this. Couldn't agree more. We're animals, and we're not perfect, or, in my honest opinion, particularly special. Just do what you can to get by, try not to hurt anyone else in the process, and there you go. Not that I'm against aiming high. Trying to improve yourself and rise above your base instincts is a good way to be, in most cases.