Re: Wow! Lots of great opinions and facts!
phatteus said:
I think all casualties could be considered innocents, unless you think "all Americans are responsible for the atrocities in the world."
No my friend, no more than all British are responsible for the atrocities in Ireland. I don't agree with the alleged muslims knocking the towers down any mre than I agree with the IRA planting nail bombs in shopping malls full of women and children.
It's about time we stopped seeing people as being deliniated by national boundaries. People feel as if the nation that has caused them grief, has somehow transfered their guilt on to it's citizens. Sad.......
phatteus said:
but yes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were ravaged by US dropped bombs. Perhaps the US made a bad decision in using nuclear weapons at that time, but I think that the thinking was that the "Japs" had bombed us at Pearl Harbor, and we wanted a quick end to the war. Well, we got it, didn't we?
Oddly enough, no you didn't. The following is a simplification of the events of 1945........
Allies: Hey-up you slant-eyed nips, we've got a new superweapon that we'll twat you with if you don't unconditionally surrender to us.
Japanese: Not on your flucking nelly! We'll sullender on our own terms, or you can go fluck yourselves!
Allies: Eat this Hiroshima! *Hiroshima is nuked* Now will you surrender to us unconditionally?
Japanese: You gotta flucking hearing ploblem you bunch of plicks? We sullender on our terms or none at all!
Allies: Saionara Nagasaki! *Nagasaki is nuked* Now will you surrender Japan?
Japanese: We will not flucking sullender unconditionally. We sullender under our own terms, or never!
Allies: Okay then, sign here.........
The Allies accepted the same terms of surrender that Japan had offered BEFORE the double nuke-job! The war could've ended in exactly the same way without the hundreds of thousands of innocent nuclear victims being flambeyed alive. I've written quite extensively about this and it's effects in my 9/11 threads, so I won't repeat it all hear. Let's just say it had the desired effect. The world spent the next 50 or so years being shit scared of the other side during the cold war. Divide and seperate. It worked.
phatteus said:
The Gulf War? Does anyone remember why we went in there in the first place? Saddam Hussein had, prior to 1991, attempted to eradicate a race of people, placed them in death camps, subjected them to biological and chemical weapons, (which he may or may not still have, probably not though) and gave his insane son free reign to torture the rest of them to death. Then, in Early 1991, Hussein decided that it would be a great idea to take over a small country next to his.
Another thing I wrote about a lot in my 2nd 9/11 thread. The Allies damn near encouraged Saddam to invade and then did fuck all about it, until he was deep enough inside Kuwait to not be able to extricate himself. Cue instant public service broadcast, thinly disguised as a "war" that was the military equivalent of putting Bob Hope in the ring with Lennox Lewis.
phatteus said:
Now I don't know about you, but this is starting to sound like a documentary about that little leather-clad guy in Germany. The atrocities of Hitler DIRECTLY led to the events of the Second World War. But I stand behind my nation in this ideal, that cruel dictatorship MUST be stopped. We're all concerned about Peace in the Middle East. That will never be accomplished while murderous tyrants rule nations.
Well let's talk about dictatorships. And I want all members of the "eye for an eye" brigade out there, to pay special attention to this. Now true Hitler was a political genius and a brilliant public orator. Without those talents a homicidal magalomaniac could'nt have done what he did and caused so much suffering. However........ Does anyone believe the people of Germany just fell hook line and sinker for this arsehole when he tripped along? Not for a flucking minute di they fall for the plick. WE, that is US, the ALLIES created the fertile ground for Hitler to sow his filthy, rascist seeds in. How? A number of ways. Firstly it was people like the Henry Ford and Prescott Bush (the grandfather of George W. bush if you're interested) bankrolling the evil bastard and secondly it was reducing Germany to such a state of misery that they welcomed him like the Second Coming of Christ! We (that is the people who masquerade as our freely elected leaders) screwed Germany into the ground following the 1st World War and reduced it to a state of poverty similar to Czar-ist Russia. People were dying od hunger and inflation was so bad that people were carrying their salary home in wheelbarrows in the form of worthlwess bank-notes. WE created that place. US. OUR countries. We decided that Germany had caused so much trouble in the 1st war that they would pay for it. As one British General said in the press... "We'll squeeze the German lemon until the pips squeak!" Ugh!
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Because of our lust for "an eye for an eye" we created that atmosphere necessary for the most evil man in recorded history to take his throne. PErhaps it was all as neatly orchestrated and planned as the two Gulf Wars were, perhaps not. I'll find out more about very shortly, but there's enough here to make anyone think about who to call "brutal dictators" who make innocent citizen's lives a misery, before looking further from home to find somenoe who fits the profile.