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Human Finally Cloned

ShiningIce

3rd Level Green Feather
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Feb 14, 2002
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HOLLYWOOD, Fla. - Ushering in either a brave new world or a spectacular hoax, a company founded by a religious sect that believes in space aliens announced Friday that it has produced the world's first cloned baby.






A healthy 7-pound girl, nicknamed Eve by scientists, was delivered by Caesarean section Thursday somewhere outside the United States, said Brigitte Boisselier, chief executive of Clonaid. Boisselier said the girl is an exact genetic copy of the American woman who gave birth to her.


At a news conference, Boisselier offered no scientific proof, provided no photographs and did not produce the mother or child. She said proof — in the form of DNA testing by independent experts — will be available in perhaps eight or nine days.


"You can still go back to your office and treat me as a fraud," she told reporters. "You have one week to do that."


Cloning experts were skeptical or reserved judgment on the announcement, which is certain to touch off fierce ethical, religious and scientific debate. In Washington, the Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) said the agency will investigate whether the experiments violated U.S. law.


The United States has no specific law against human cloning. But the FDA contends its regulations forbid human cloning without agency permission.


"The very attempt to clone a human being is evil," said Stanley M. Hauerwas, a professor of theological ethics at Duke University. "That the allegedly cloned child is to be called Eve confirms the godlike stature these people so desperately seek."


Boisselier would not say where Clonaid has been carrying out its experiments and did not identify any of the scientists involved.


She said the mother as a 31-year-old with an infertile husband. The couple have decided not to face the media now, she said.


She said four other couples are expected to give birth to Clonaid-created clones by early February.


Clonaid was founded in the Bahamas in 1997 by Claude Vorilhon, a former French journalist and leader of a sect called the Raelians. Vorilhon, who calls himself Rael, claims a space alien visiting him in 1973 revealed that extraterrestrials had created all life on Earth through genetic engineering.


Boisselier, who claims two chemistry degrees, identifies herself as a Raelian "bishop" and said Clonaid retains philosophical but not economic links to the Raelians. Rael is "my spiritual leader," Boisselier said.


"I do believe we've been created by scientists," she said. "And I'm grateful to them for my life."


She said neither the infertile couple nor the four other couples are Raelians. The other couples are a pair of lesbians from Northern Europe; two couples from North America and Asia who seek to clone dead children from cells taken before their deaths; and a second Asian couple, she said.


So far, 10 women have been implanted with Clonaid-created cloned embryos; five had miscarriages in the first three weeks, and the other five led to "Eve" and the four current pregnancies, Boisselier said.


No couple has paid for the cloning effort, but some of the first five couples invested in Clonaid, she said. She said she does not know how much Clonaid will charge once it begins to offer the service commercially.


To gain convincing proof that "Eve" is a clone, Boisselier said she accepted an offer by former ABC News science editor Michael Guillen. Guillen, now a free-lance journalist who said he has no connection to Clonaid, said he has chosen "world-class, independent experts" whom he did not identify to draw DNA from the mother and the newborn and test them for a match.


To do the cloning that led to "Eve," scientists removed the nucleus from an egg of the woman and merged the altered egg with a skin cell from her, Boisselier said. The DNA from the mother's skin cell took over direction of the egg.

"The baby is very healthy," Boisselier said. "The parents are happy. I hope that you remember them when you talk about this baby — not like a monster, like some results of something that is disgusting."

The notion of human cloning is controversial, both because of the apparent risk to a baby — cloned animals have shown a host of abnormalities — and because of other ethical considerations.

Boisselier contends that defects seen in cloned animals will not necessarily appear in humans.

"If my science is giving babies to parents who have been dying to get one with their own genes, is my science worse than the one preparing bombs to kill people?" she asked. "I am creating life."

Several countries, including Britain, Israel, Japan and Germany, have banned human cloning. Legislation in Congress stalled last summer over cloning for medical research purposes.

"The president believes, like most Americans, that human cloning is deeply troubling," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "Despite the widespread skepticism among scientists and medical professionals about today's announcement, it underscores the need for the new Congress to act."

The Vatican (news - web sites), which holds that life begins at conception, has condemned cloning because extra embryos are destroyed in the process. The 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention disapproved of Boisselier's announcement.

"There is a global race going on by rogue scientists who are operating outside the mainstream," said Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptists' public policy arm. "If you allow cloning at all, some people will try to reproduce them with predictably horrific results."

Scientists said they looked forward to the promised proof.

"We'll wait and see, I guess. I'm still a skeptic and I'm hoping that it's not true," said University of Georgia cloning expert Steve Stice.

Mark Westhusin of Texas A&M University, who made headlines in February by cloning a cat, said if Boisselier's announcement is true, "they are taking a big risk in terms of health hazards to the child."

The American Society of Reproductive Medicine said in a statement: "Based on the current state of knowledge, we do not believe taking a clonal pregnancy to term would be possible in humans."

In Rome, fertility doctor Severino Antinori, who announced weeks ago that a cloned baby would be born in January through a separate effort, dismissed Clonaid's claims and said the company has no scientific credibility.

___
 
Most German newspapers think that this is "wishful thinking of a megalomaniac pseudo-scientific UFO sect". Just as US scientists, most European scientists do not believe that Mme Boisselier told the truth.

Even if 'human cloning' gets banned by most civilized nations, there will always be illegal attempts at it by sects, criminals, and dictators who want to become immortal. As Robert Oppenheimer once stated: "If scientific knowledge allows a weapon to be built, it will get built somewhere in the world, and it will be used somewhere and somewhen." He was referring to the A-bomb, but you may replace it by whatever you like.
 
Well during their press conference, there were no credible scientists or credible doctors to back up their claims and statements. They could not even produce medical evidence of this so-called clone. The entire world is just supposed to take their word for it, as it is.

When they said that life on earth was created by alien beings....well to me, that destroyed any credability they may have had.
 
Ticklemaster750 said:
Well during their press conference, there were no credible scientists or credible doctors to back up their claims and statements. They could not even produce medical evidence of this so-called clone. The entire world is just supposed to take their word for it, as it is.

When they said that life on earth was created by alien beings....well to me, that destroyed any credability they may have had.
Correct me here if I am wrong, but I think I heard one of them say we would have proof in 8 to 10 days. So we will see then.

I for one, just my feelings and opinion here. It is just a scary thought that scientists can do this, that is, if this is true of course. Spend money on cures for things like aids, a cure for Alzheimer's disease, Muscular Dystrophy, MS just so many things that would make a difference in someone's life. How is cloning going to help any of us?
I don't like the thought of them messing with life and acting like they are God. God created us and I don't think he meant for us to multiply in this way.
*curtsy*🙂
 
Why would anyone want a clone? One me running around the world causing trouble is more than enough. 😛 :sowrong:
 
slave4tickles said:

Correct me here if I am wrong, but I think I heard one of them say we would have proof in 8 to 10 days. So we will see then.

I for one, just my feelings and opinion here. It is just a scary thought that scientists can do this, that is, if this is true of course. Spend money on cures for things like aids, a cure for Alzheimer's disease, Muscular Dystrophy, MS just so many things that would make a difference in someone's life. How is cloning going to help any of us?
I don't like the thought of them messing with life and acting like they are God. God created us and I don't think he meant for us to multiply in this way.
*curtsy*🙂


Well I am still skeptical. It will take a lot more than just a press conference and smoke-screens to make me change my mind.

It is natural, when you make a claim such as this one, to have proof with you. Not just say "Well, we don't have any proof as of yet, but we'll get back to you. In the mean-time, just take our word for it".

When the American Medical Journal makes a claim, they are expected to provide proof backing up their claim.

This group of nuts just give as an elaborate song-and-dance, hoping that if their song-and-dance is carefully choreographed, maybe the people will forget they have no medical evidence.....not even a shred. But they said so, and to some people, that will be enough "proof" for them.

Not me. I need something more real that just words and a press conference.
 
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Cloned individuals will have special psychological needs. My psychothearpy business will be available, although I will, of course, have to charge twice my normal fee; once for the original, and once for the clone.

After all, I'll have to keep two sets of books for this business.

All funds, though, must be drawn on a US bank. No foreign accounts or banks from outer space.
 
From what I've learned about cloning, and in particularly about that sheep that was cloned, we're not ready for human cloning. There's even some decent as to whether it was a real clone.

The scientist that did the sheep cloning said he would not try it on humans. There were so many sheep that had horrible defects that until they get much better at it (like in 50 years) he would never try to clone a human.


Let me ask this though, what is so scary about cloning? I don't get it?
 
Sci-Fi

The applications of cloning have been debated for many decades in the sci fi field. To answer an earlier question, one of the most realistic uses for cloning is for organ donor supply, and more specifically for rejection free transplanting if/when needed for each individual. The hypothetical situation is that eventually we will be able to literally grow either a shell ( a brainless clone..literally, not figuratively) from a persons DNA, and then harvest and preserve the organs once they have reached maturity. Other possibilities are complete "makeovers" that would be possible once science has advanced to the point of nerve regeneration, up to and including actual brain transplants. It's laughable currently, just as heart transplants were 70 years ago. There is of course also the evil army theory, whereby we grow them for combat, and a host of others...lol. Q
 
guitman69 said:



Let me ask this though, what is so scary about cloning? I don't get it?


Well I guess under the right conditions, and under strict supervision and regulation, it could serve great scientific advances.

But the fear that many people share (myself included), is that while it could benefit humanity, some nut, such as Bin Laden or Saddam could use this technology to mass-produce an army of terrorists.

It's not as far-fetched as some may think.
 
Cloning has very limited applications. It would mainly be of benefit to help keep alive species that are close to being extinct. Other than that it has a very limited potential for cloning adds nothing to the gene pool of a species. For example, every person has at least five or six killer genes. If you were to clone a lot of that person you get multiple copies of those killer genes and the likelyhood that someone is going to mate with someone with those same killer genes increases. This is why you shouldn't mate with a close relative the gene pools are too much alike. This is why royal families had a history of diseases like hemophelia. The human race is much better off when people from diverse cultures and therefore diverse genetic backgrounds have children. The message is, the better we can get along with people from diverse cultures the better off we will be on the whole as a species. Cloning of human beings, I think, except in very special circumstances detracts from us as a species and thus is something that should be very regulated and almost never done. There are other reasons against cloning but this is one big one I have.
 
Alright lets separate science fiction from real science.


What would the purpose be for cloning a bunch of soldiers? It will still take human women to give birth to them, then you have to wait for them to grow up, and then you still have to train them. This would in no way increase a countries armed forces. The only possible advantage having a cloned army would that they would all have the same physical charactaristics and potentials. But you could use selective breeding to accomplish this much easier.

Now as for the transplant option. By the time you realize you need a transplant, you will be dead by the time the clone is matured enough to give you that kidney or heart. And the cloned shell idea is just preposterous. In theory, you could keep a body alive for years without a brain, and it may one day be possible to do "brain transplants", but do realize that a lifetime of inactivity will render your new body absolutely useless. The muscles would be so atrophied and your tendons so tight that you wouldn't even be able to move a finger, let alone breathe on your own (a respirator pushes air into your lungs, your diaphram would shrivel up into nothing from lack of use).

Not to mention, even if they found a way to keep the body in good shape while it awaited your untimely demise, when they move your brain into this 'shell', you would have to relearn everything. How to talk, move, breathe, eat. You will be a baby once again, but worse. A baby has the first few months in the womb to start experimenting with these new nerves and muscles. Even though it is genetically identical to your own body, everything is different. The nerves will not grow in the same places as in your own body. Remember, genetics have a lot to do with how you develope, but so does your environment.

The only real use for human cloning (besides 'can we do it') is to give steril people a chance to have a child that is really a part of them. Even though the child will be an exact genetic copy of one of the parents, the child will be it's own individual, and will make it's own decisions in life, and will probably turn out nothing like it's parent, except look ALMOST exactly alike.
 
The utility of cloning is simple. It's a baseline step for being able to move on to higher genetic manipulation work. Simply put, you need to be able to do the 'simple' act of cloning easily and successfuly before you move on to custom genome design.

It's custom genomic work that is the real payoff in this science. Making copies of people is of little utility, but to design one to have specific traits (or the mix of two genomes, an example: a lesbian couple could have a child of their own dsigned from a custom mix of their genomes) is of great worth. That's why this area is one that work is happening in.

Myriads
 
Where's the ethical aspect?

I’m astonished that nobody has brought up the ethical problems with cloning in this discussion. IMO, we can’t discuss cloning without the ethical component.

You’ll have to experiment with a lot of embryos before you achieve a successful clone. This raises one important question: When does life start? At birth? Immediately after the semen enters the egg? At the time when the embryo develops a brain? Or at what other stage? It’s the same question that heats up the abortion discussions: highly emotional and entirely depending on your belief.

What would happen to the human rights of a clone? Most times, the clone would be brought up during the original’s lifetime. Will the original be more valuable than the copy? Who will inherit your belongings: your ‘regular’ child(ren) or your own copy? Will a clone have the right to commit suicide when he/she discovers that he/she’s only a copy? What if by chance more than one copy of yourself survives? What if your copy develops some kind of disabilty after birth? Will the original be entitled to destroy his/her own, 'faulty' copy? Questions, questions.

Bringing a copy of ourselves into life opens up another can of worms: Immortality! If the cloning starts early enough, we’d be able to bring up our own copies as our children. Depending on the question whether a copy will be fertile or whether the clone can be copied once more, you can actually achieve immortality with all the problems: mortality rate and over-population, genetic degeneration because of the lack of new genetic material, etc.

Another (albeit marginal) problem: People like Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein (their future equivalents, of course) will be able to raise their own copies, train them as their successors, and finally hand over power to THEMSELVES! (Brrr, I’m shivering!)

Basically, cloning messes with evolution itself. There is a reason why genomes get mixed by nature: genetic diversity is all-important to evolution. Should we really mess with that? Although I’m all for genetic research for medical reasons, I have sincere qualms about messing with human life itself. I think we have a lot of problems to solve in this world before we shall start to imitate God! 🙄
 
Re: Where's the ethical aspect?

Haltickling said:

What would happen to the human rights of a clone? Most times, the clone would be brought up during the original’s lifetime. Will the original be more valuable than the copy? Who will inherit your belongings: your ‘regular’ child(ren) or your own copy? Will a clone have the right to commit suicide when he/she discovers that he/she’s only a copy? What if by chance more than one copy of yourself survives? What if your copy develops some kind of disabilty after birth? Will the original be entitled to destroy his/her own, 'faulty' copy? Questions, questions.


Why would a clone have any less rights than a naturally born person. THEY'RE STILL HUMAN BEINGS!!! The only difference between a clone and any other human is that they share the exact same genetic code as it's parent.

Why would a clone feel inferior to anyone? It would be like saying an adopted child should feel inferior to naturally born children in the same family. Just because they came into the family differently does not mean ones better than the other.

What is your view of how cloning works anyway. Do you think their gonna take genetic material from you and start up the photo copier? You're not gonna have more than one clone surviving, because you're only going to try to make one at a time.

And finally you will not be alowed to 'destoy a faulty copy' any more than you could kill a child who is disabled. IT'S STILL A HUMAN BEING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! They're still concieved (albeit in a different way, but so are test tube babies and IVF), grow inside a womb, and are born.

And besides, we already have clones. They're called twins! Two people with an exact genetic makeup. It's the same thing.
 
There maybe a way in the future to grow organs to match your genetic configuration without cloning an entire person. It revolves around stem cell research which was somewhat controversial in and of itself. Using methods developed by this technology you could get a cell to turn itsef into a heart cell or a liver cell and then grow you a new heart or liver. Cloning to get organs is not a viable option if it means ripping apart a live human being to get at all the parts you want. I don't even want to think about all the ethics violations there.

It does take a lot of embryos to get a viable clone. It took a lot I believe to get Dolly the first cloned sheep. However it presently takes a fair amount of embryo's even for other techniques like "in vitro fertilazation". That is why those methods are somewhat controversial as well.
 
It is my understanding that another problem they have found with the cloned sheep is that the cells of the clone act like they are the age of the mother/original/or whatever you would call the source of the genetics. My understanding of this is lets say you are cloned when you are 50 years old. Your clone will immediately begin life with cells that act as if they are 50 years old. Seems to me that could be a problem.
 
If you are right omega then yes that would be a big problem any non-cancerous cell has only a limited number of cell divisions before that cell line dies off. This might be why there is this problem and old cells will die off rapidly. Your clone would then start to die almost as soon as it was born if it was cloned from a really old cell line. Excellent point.
 
at times like these...

we must look to Al.

Isn't it strange...? Feels like I'm lookin' in the mirror
What would people say...if only they knew that I was
Part of some geneticist's plan
Born to be a carbon copy man
There in a petri dish late one night
They took a donor's body cell and fertilized a human egg and so I say...
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
There's always two of me just a-hangin' around
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
'Cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down

Look at the way...we go out walking close together
I guess you could say...I'm really beside myself
I still remember how it began
They produced a carbon copy man
Born in a science lab late one night
Without a mother or a father
Just a test tube and a womb with a view...

I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
There's always two of me just a-hangin' around
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
'Cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
And I can stay at home while I'm out of town
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
'Cause every pair of genes is a hand-me-down

Signing autographs for my fans
Come and meet the carbon copy man
Livin' in stereo, it's all right
Well I can be my own best friend and I can send myself for pizza, so I say...

I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
Another one of me's always hangin' around
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
'Cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
I've been on Oprah Winfrey, I'm world renowned
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
And every pair of genes is a hand-me-down
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
Thats my genetic twin always hangin' around
I THINK I'M A CLONE NOW
'Cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down
 
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