Dave2112
Level of Cherry Feather
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2001
- Messages
- 10,293
- Points
- 0
Let me start by saying that I fretted long and hard during work today to find a way to say this without coming across as a flamer. I guess a good place to start would be to say that there will be no personal attacks on anyone here, only responses to actions. It is possible to strongly disagree with someone without resorting to insults, and that’s how I’ll proceed. Out of over 1,500 posts, you can probably count my negative ones on one hand, so I think I’m entitled to get a little riled and defend myself once in a while.
It started with a simple idea. An artist and I wanted to push the envelope of our craft and be the first to delve into a fantasy scenario where a prisoner is sentenced to execution by tickling. Fair enough. I even went as far as to post a poll, to see if anyone actually wanted this. Most of the response was positive, with a few who found it too dark. Again, fair enough. I kind of expected that and was prepared for it. However, one response really caught me off guard; “No wonder Yaqi won't link to the TMF now that the mainstream is taking notice".
First off, I am utterly offended by this. Don’t lay Yaqi’s choices on MY shoulders. Let’s look at the big picture here. Yaqi made his choice to dismiss this community long before this idea was formulated. Why am I now another scapegoat in this whole soap-opera? You can go back in the posts and even to his own site to see exactly what he thinks of us. Yet, I still defend his desire to do what he wants, even if I disagree with the way he goes about it. I guess that respect is only offered to a select few.
Second off, what really bothers me is that this post was made not by one of the few who just like to start crap, but by someone who I considered a friend. You can't imagine the shock I felt reading this. A friend who once asked me if I did any sci-fi stuff with my Poser art. A friend who I had solely in mind when I spend hours creating two sci-fi images in the hopes that he’d get a kick out of them. I see the spirit of community with nothing to gain is also reserved for a select few.
Third, and perhaps most importantly, is why Yaqi was even made a part of this equation. I’ve sensed a serious rift lately on the TMF, and am deeply saddened to see us starting to form into “Yaqi” and “Anti-Yaqi” camps. It seems that everything lately has something to do with this fiasco. I have nothing personal against the man. I don’t share his vision, but I’ll be the first to fall on my blade defending his right to do it. What I do have a problem with is the way we seem to be glorifying him, fully knowing the way he feels about us. Yes, the recent post was a fake. But there have been numerous times previously where he has told members of this community that they’ve been brainwashed, that there’s no real thing as a “community”…yap, yap, yap….we’ve all heard it. I don’t want to be seen as getting in someone’s way to better the community, but when it’s done in that whole “Share my vision or eat at the kid’s table” attitude, it’s not really for the community, is it?
So here’s what I get out of this. If you look at the community with contempt, you’re still a demi-god as long as you put it on video. But if you’re dealing with Art or Fiction, there are boundaries you mustn’t cross.
Now let’s look at the real reason this thing started…the story. Once in a while, a writer or an artist gets an itch to push the envelope. Would I want to kill someone with tickling? Of course not! But I wouldn’t want to do half of the shit I write about. That’s why they call it fantasy. I wrote a story about a woman condemned to Hell and an eternity of extreme torture. Pretty well received. I wrote about a Djinn who tricked someone with her own wishes into a nightmare of torment, locked away from the rest of existence. Got some pretty big kudos on that one. So why is this idea any different? Having a woman who was sentenced to death anyway (she’s far from a hero here), getting it by these means is just another fantasy. It’s a challenge to see if I can write something like that, and still make it believable and well-versed. I write horror in my time away from the TMF, and this is simply a combination of the two. If she were to be executed by a razor-wire net and diced into bite-sized morsels, would that be better?
No matter how “mainstream” tickling gets, it will still come down to watching it on video. So what really takes more effort, to point a camera at a girl getting tickled, or to create a fantasy scenario complete with characters, plot and reason? A scenario that no one with a camera will touch, because you couldn’t. The community will always need its writers and artists. I challenge anyone to say that they never had a fantasy that couldn’t actually be done. I give all due respect to video producers, don’t get me wrong. I know it’s more than point-and-shoot, I was just making a point, I know the work involved and respect that. I just ask for Non-video entertainment to be given the same respect. What I mean is, do we really need to label someone as a “pioneer” just because the video happens to be in a different setting?
And finally….is it really that important that we make Yaqi happy? From the sound of that post, I seem to have really screwed up a golden opportunity for us. So here’s what I’ll do to smooth things over and we can get our shot on Springer.
The story will still be done. It’s something we want to do as an artistic challenge. I just won’t post it here. That should prevent any possible worms from escaping their can, even though people do have the choice to eschew the can-opener. It’s sad that you can push the envelope with video, but have to stay within previously accepted boundaries when it comes to fiction. So much for taking the fetish to new places. Maybe if I put the story between a segment of a woman who deep-throats a mop handle and a guy who farts the “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, we can all achieve our goals of mainstream exposure. I’ll lay off the material so we can concentrate on this goal. I need some time to see how this is going to play out. To be quite frank, I’m afraid to post anymore stories or art right now. Not out of spite or anything juvenile like that, but out of honest fear that I’m being “Un-Yaqi-like”. I just don’t know what’s accepted anymore, or where I stand in this community, not having done anything so groundbreaking.
In closing, I apologize for coming across as harsh. Like I said, I’m not angry or pissy. If this were a conversation, you’d find my voice calm and even. But I stand by my right to defend myself and explain my view just like everyone else.
What I am is hurt. Deeply. I feel like a knife has been shoved in my back. I'm sorry if it shows, and this is most likely the last time I'll respond to something like this. I hold no ill view against any person, only the actions.
Let me tell you what I’m not going to do. I’m NOT leaving. I will still post and be an active member of this community, and put this behind me. I’m not going to stop writing or producing art altogether, just for now. I’m not going to give a long goodbye, crying and whining, and say demeaning things about the community…only to return in three weeks when I have a new project to hawk.
I’ll leave that to the true pioneers.
It started with a simple idea. An artist and I wanted to push the envelope of our craft and be the first to delve into a fantasy scenario where a prisoner is sentenced to execution by tickling. Fair enough. I even went as far as to post a poll, to see if anyone actually wanted this. Most of the response was positive, with a few who found it too dark. Again, fair enough. I kind of expected that and was prepared for it. However, one response really caught me off guard; “No wonder Yaqi won't link to the TMF now that the mainstream is taking notice".
First off, I am utterly offended by this. Don’t lay Yaqi’s choices on MY shoulders. Let’s look at the big picture here. Yaqi made his choice to dismiss this community long before this idea was formulated. Why am I now another scapegoat in this whole soap-opera? You can go back in the posts and even to his own site to see exactly what he thinks of us. Yet, I still defend his desire to do what he wants, even if I disagree with the way he goes about it. I guess that respect is only offered to a select few.
Second off, what really bothers me is that this post was made not by one of the few who just like to start crap, but by someone who I considered a friend. You can't imagine the shock I felt reading this. A friend who once asked me if I did any sci-fi stuff with my Poser art. A friend who I had solely in mind when I spend hours creating two sci-fi images in the hopes that he’d get a kick out of them. I see the spirit of community with nothing to gain is also reserved for a select few.
Third, and perhaps most importantly, is why Yaqi was even made a part of this equation. I’ve sensed a serious rift lately on the TMF, and am deeply saddened to see us starting to form into “Yaqi” and “Anti-Yaqi” camps. It seems that everything lately has something to do with this fiasco. I have nothing personal against the man. I don’t share his vision, but I’ll be the first to fall on my blade defending his right to do it. What I do have a problem with is the way we seem to be glorifying him, fully knowing the way he feels about us. Yes, the recent post was a fake. But there have been numerous times previously where he has told members of this community that they’ve been brainwashed, that there’s no real thing as a “community”…yap, yap, yap….we’ve all heard it. I don’t want to be seen as getting in someone’s way to better the community, but when it’s done in that whole “Share my vision or eat at the kid’s table” attitude, it’s not really for the community, is it?
So here’s what I get out of this. If you look at the community with contempt, you’re still a demi-god as long as you put it on video. But if you’re dealing with Art or Fiction, there are boundaries you mustn’t cross.
Now let’s look at the real reason this thing started…the story. Once in a while, a writer or an artist gets an itch to push the envelope. Would I want to kill someone with tickling? Of course not! But I wouldn’t want to do half of the shit I write about. That’s why they call it fantasy. I wrote a story about a woman condemned to Hell and an eternity of extreme torture. Pretty well received. I wrote about a Djinn who tricked someone with her own wishes into a nightmare of torment, locked away from the rest of existence. Got some pretty big kudos on that one. So why is this idea any different? Having a woman who was sentenced to death anyway (she’s far from a hero here), getting it by these means is just another fantasy. It’s a challenge to see if I can write something like that, and still make it believable and well-versed. I write horror in my time away from the TMF, and this is simply a combination of the two. If she were to be executed by a razor-wire net and diced into bite-sized morsels, would that be better?
No matter how “mainstream” tickling gets, it will still come down to watching it on video. So what really takes more effort, to point a camera at a girl getting tickled, or to create a fantasy scenario complete with characters, plot and reason? A scenario that no one with a camera will touch, because you couldn’t. The community will always need its writers and artists. I challenge anyone to say that they never had a fantasy that couldn’t actually be done. I give all due respect to video producers, don’t get me wrong. I know it’s more than point-and-shoot, I was just making a point, I know the work involved and respect that. I just ask for Non-video entertainment to be given the same respect. What I mean is, do we really need to label someone as a “pioneer” just because the video happens to be in a different setting?
And finally….is it really that important that we make Yaqi happy? From the sound of that post, I seem to have really screwed up a golden opportunity for us. So here’s what I’ll do to smooth things over and we can get our shot on Springer.
The story will still be done. It’s something we want to do as an artistic challenge. I just won’t post it here. That should prevent any possible worms from escaping their can, even though people do have the choice to eschew the can-opener. It’s sad that you can push the envelope with video, but have to stay within previously accepted boundaries when it comes to fiction. So much for taking the fetish to new places. Maybe if I put the story between a segment of a woman who deep-throats a mop handle and a guy who farts the “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, we can all achieve our goals of mainstream exposure. I’ll lay off the material so we can concentrate on this goal. I need some time to see how this is going to play out. To be quite frank, I’m afraid to post anymore stories or art right now. Not out of spite or anything juvenile like that, but out of honest fear that I’m being “Un-Yaqi-like”. I just don’t know what’s accepted anymore, or where I stand in this community, not having done anything so groundbreaking.
In closing, I apologize for coming across as harsh. Like I said, I’m not angry or pissy. If this were a conversation, you’d find my voice calm and even. But I stand by my right to defend myself and explain my view just like everyone else.
What I am is hurt. Deeply. I feel like a knife has been shoved in my back. I'm sorry if it shows, and this is most likely the last time I'll respond to something like this. I hold no ill view against any person, only the actions.
Let me tell you what I’m not going to do. I’m NOT leaving. I will still post and be an active member of this community, and put this behind me. I’m not going to stop writing or producing art altogether, just for now. I’m not going to give a long goodbye, crying and whining, and say demeaning things about the community…only to return in three weeks when I have a new project to hawk.
I’ll leave that to the true pioneers.
