Is honesty realy the best policy?

[Cosmo_ac]

Cosmo_ac here again with another question in regards to morality. The question is, "is honesty the best policy?".

The idea for this thread belongs to two sources. The first being an interest i've had over the last few weeks in regards to morals/views/beliefs taught to us as children vs. real life. The second source which prodded me to making this post, is a news article I read online. I shall copy and paste the article, and while I would certainly love to hear peoples views on the article, I'd also like thoughts about the subject of this post. Here is the article in question.

No $50K prize for 11-year-old who made 89-foot hockey shot
By Sean Leahy


Earlier this month at a charity hockey event in Faribault, Minn., 11-year-old Nate Smith made an 89-foot shot from center ice to win $50,000.

The problem was that Nate's twin brother, Nick, was the one who purchased the winning raffle ticket. When the time came to attempt the shot, Nick was outside of the arena unaware he had won, so in stepped Nate to score the miraculous goal.




After the boys' father, Pat, came forward the next day and admitted to event organizers about the twins' switch, Odds on Promotions, the company that insured the event, held up awarding the prize money.

On Wednesday, the company decided against giving Nate the $50,000 and instead announced it will donate $20,000 to youth hockey in Minnesota in the boys' names. Odds On Promotions' reasoning was that the switch breached the contract.

Odds on Promotion president Mark Gilmartin said in a statement:

"We greatly respect the eventual honesty of the Smith family. [...] Although we're unable to the pay the claim on Nate's incredible shot, we are confident our donation will help foster a positive environment for present and future youth hockey in Minnesota."

Pat Smith told the Associated Press that while the boys are disappointed about losing out on the money -- which they had said they'd put towards college -- they're happy that youth hockey in Minnesota will benefit. And due to their honesty the boys earned scholarships to the Shattuck-St. Mary's hockey school's summer camp.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/pu...1-year-old-who-made-89-foot-h?urn=nhl-wp11564

In the case in question, the father could have easily not said anything and recieved the money. Money that could honestly have changed his son's futures by allowing them to attend a good school and get a decent education. Instead, he did the "Right" thing, and told the truth. In return, the boy's lose out on their futures, and learn the hard lession that while being decent is good, it can fuck you right in the ass with a 10 inch spiked dildo. While it is understandable to some degree why the company would do what they did, they could certainly have done more for the children then give them a hockey summer camp. They could have set up a scholarship for them at a decent school, or something to this regard. Instead, we see what so many slimy companies are doing these days, which is cutting expanses anywhere they can, and playing it up for the media so they look like the good guys, who generously donated $20,000 to youth hockey, meanwhile pocketting the other $30,000 that probably should have gone to this family.

 

[Bothersome]

This one's honestly a tough call for me.

There's a good argument on both sides of the fence, and I'm not honestly sure which one is the 'greater good' so to speak. I have always been of the opinion, however, that honesty is not always the best policy. In some scenarios it's great, and in some scenarios it can ruin a person's life. It all depends on the situation.

 

[socktickler86]

Those organizers are jerks. Either way, the parents are going to get the money considering kids can't win money in that fashion as far as I know (the money is given to the parents). It's not like it was an adult and their jerk brother stole the ticket and won or something.

As to whether or not honesty is the best policy... I think it always is. Is it the most practical? No. And I think that's what separates good people from the rest, whether or not one does something that's virtuous or simply does what's practical and in their own best interest. What do they say, 'character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking'?

Then again you always have the "do I look good in this?" situations where being honest might just be mean 😛. Honesty doesn't happen in a vacuum and even good things that result in far worse things.

 

[goddess_nemesis]

Honesty is usually the best policy, but not always. There's a lot of gray area that it depends on the situation and the people involved.

For example, when I attended my first gathering last year, I had to tell my parents where I was going just so they know in case of an emergency. I told them as close to the truth as possible because I already knew that they would be very worried about me traveling to another state by myself to meet friends. I told them I was meeting friends that I've met online on a forum site where some of the members hold little get-togethers so people would have a safe environment to meet. I left out that the people I'd be meeting are tickling fetishists that I met on a tickling site. I would have received a much different reaction if I had told them the complete truth and not a half-truth.

 

[Gothika]

always imo

 

[Bothersome]

Honesty is usually the best policy, but not always. There's a lot of gray area that it depends on the situation and the people involved.

For example, when I attended my first gathering last year, I had to tell my parents where I was going just so they know in case of an emergency. I told them as close to the truth as possible because I already knew that they would be very worried about me traveling to another state by myself to meet friends. I told them I was meeting friends that I've met online on a forum site where some of the members hold little get-togethers so people would have a safe environment to meet. I left out that the people I'd be meeting are tickling fetishists that I met on a tickling site. I would have received a much different reaction if I had told them the complete truth and not a half-truth.

Personally, I don't consider a half-truth to be a lie.
Sure, it's not complete honesty, but it's not necessarily a lie, either.

I find that more often than not, complete honesty tends to do more harm than good. I'm sure the majority of people will disagree with me on that, however I urge those people to honestly answer any appearance-related questions that their girlfriend/wife throws at them. It won't always be a lie, of course, but it probably won't always be the truth, either.

 

[socktickler86]

Personally, I don't consider a half-truth to be a lie.
Sure, it's not complete honesty, but it's not necessarily a lie, either.

I feel this can be a slippery slope along the lines of "lying by omission". Kind of like "well, you didn't ASK if I was cheating on you...". In the end I think it's a very complicated concept.

 

[Bothersome]

I feel this can be a slippery slope along the lines of "lying by omission". Kind of like "well, you didn't ASK if I was cheating on you...". In the end I think it's a very complicated concept.

Agreed.

However, you aren't presenting false information. You're presenting incomplete information, but so does anyone who is ignorant to any subject, and we don't call them liars, do we?

But, there are arguments to the contrary as well. Ultimately, it seems like it's subject to the person who defines it, otherwise you could argue about it until the cows come home.

 

[Flatfoot]

I honestly think Dad should have kept his mouth shut, instead of asking questions. There are situations in life where it's better to ask forgiveness instead of permission, and other situations where you do neither, and simply do what you're gonna do.

As far as complete honesty, there's something called "a need to know". Not everyone needs to know everything. Sometimes, superfluous information is bad, such as in the situation above.

Well, at least the parents won't have to claim an additional $50000 on their taxes.

 

[TickVix]

I for one am a HUGE advocate for honesty. It's one thing to choose not to disclose certain information, but it's a whole different ball game when a person blatantly decides to lie over and over and over again. Perhaps those are habitual, compulsive or pathological liars regardless I prefer to steer clear of people like this. We have all told lies in life or have been dishonest at some point, but being honest really can't hurt anyone in the long run.

 

[obama666]

No!

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

Had I been the Dad, I would have said nothing and taken the cash. That was a hell of a shot, and to walk away with nothing but a "lesson learned," that in my opinion is more wrong than giving it up over a technicality.

I think there's a lot of confusion over the concepts of lying vs honesty. One of the most ridiculous phrases ever to be coined in my opinion is "lying by omission." This is the ludicrous idea that one is mandated to spew every scrap of information pertaining to a question asked.

For example, let's say somebody asks, "What did you do today?" If you don't list every single thing you did that day, you could be accused of "lying by ommission." In the example Nemesis gave, there was no lying, period. She was under no mandate whatsoever to disclose the nature of the gathering. I'm assuming she was an adult at the time, otherwise she wouldn't have been invited. That the gathering was related to tickling was Nemisis' business and ONLY her business. In short, she was completely 100% honest in her answer.

I remember a TV show Smallville in which Clark kept his super powers a secret from Lana. She knew he had a secret but didn't know what it was, and so she kept accusing Clark of not being "honest" with her. Well sorry Lana, but "honesty" does not equal "full disclosure."

Then there was the guy here on the TMF who insisted that if you go to a masseuse and ask for tickling, but neglect to tell her that you have a tickling fetish, you are "lying by omission." I'm not kidding, the guy was seriously trying to peddle this line of horse shit.

Lying is telling an untruth. You have to make an untrue statement in order to lie about something. Nodding your head yes and shaking your head no both qualify as statements to the affirmative and negative respectively. But a tactful decision to withhold information in no way qualifies as "dishonesty."

 

[mabus]

You have to include in the equation the concept of EVIL, and how honesty affects and promotes evil.

For an extreme example, during the Holocaust, there was all kinds of dishonesty perpetrated by good people, who used it to literally save lives, of men, women, children, whole neighborhoods, fellow soldiers, etc.
"These are medical supplies..." No, they're children hiding on a stretcher.
Do you be honest and say "No, these aren't medical supplies, these are children we're sneaking out. Please expose our sham and take these kids and bring them out back and shoot them all in the face." Or do you lie, and defeat evil?

Even on a smaller level. You work in a store, and you have an item in, but it isn't priced yet. Do you tell the customer this, and risk getting into a half hour argument?
(Some stores you can get them the item, but my store has a new manager, and has turned into a hostile, egomaniacal driven "manager's (all 6 or 7 of them where we used to have ONE) ego comes WAY before customer satisfaction environment. Often I do tell them the truth, but when you work in an evil place, you have to resort to lying to the customers because it get's exhausting telling the truth over and having to explain insanity to these poor customers over and over again. "Well, the guy who now makes the prices, he just won't do it. He gets away with this because he's a fucking tattletale who's too busy tearing us all down than helping the customers, and he can because that's how things now work around here. You'll get these prices in about two weeks when he dumps it on someone else, maybe, so...sorry you'll make a bad grade at school because you can't finish your project." (And yes, I do work in an evil environment. We have new people come in, who are all sniveling little tattletales who actually DO get brownie points every time they tattle on the poor older workers who have been there for years and are actually DOING THE WORK that's keeping the store running. They've successfully lied on two of my co-workers and have gotten them fired and screwed their lived up, obviously, in this crappy economy. God damn I hope there's a hell.

So this asks the question of honesty - are the intentions GOOD or EVIL? Are you telling a lie to get someone fired so you can be all smug and laugh about it later on, (at which point I hope there' a hell so you can ripped to shreds for all eternity, you deserve it...) or do you tell someone a lie that may save their lives, because the great good out weighs the fib?

The above example given in the thread wit the game is a tough one, because not all parties are good. The company giving the prize did a dick move, because the kid did actually score the goal, which is
an impressive achievement. Coupled with the dad's honesty, the GOOD thing for them would have to been to maybe reward half the prize, since it was a twin, the audience was entertained, thus will return for more games in hopes of seeing another "miracle shot," and thus spend more money on tickets, trinkets, and food. Yes, many big corporations are evil in their practices (I'm a Republican who fully supports Capitalism, but come on, every capitalistic venture isn't clean and pure as the wind driven snow. Profits are good, greed is bad.)

Usually when things like this happen, the good person is rewarded, showing out faith in humanity. But sometimes, it isn't, because life sucks. Someone returns a lost wallet, money all intact, and the person who loses it accused them of stealing it, and then accuses them of stealing money out of it when they didn't. Sometimes you return a wallet and the person gives you a reward, sometimes a big reward, hell, sometimes it ends up in marriage and much tickling for decades!

I figure if you live life being a good person, hopefully it'll all work out in the end. Don't plot evil against your fellow man, don't be egotistical, be compassionate, be humble.... we're are losing that in today's world.

 

[Bohemianne]

Having wisdom is the best policy.

 

[GQguy]

I think some of these "rules" were created and perpetuated by a ruling class to subjugate and control the lower classes. Honesty is the best policy? Ha! If you're a noble land owner and your serfs are always being honest it's great! The noble land owner knows the real deal that lying is an art form and is vital for success. He takes advantage of the serfs naïveté to line his own pockets. The story above is a modern day example of this.

 

[CaptainValiant]

A good movie that plays on this is Waking Ned Devine. Raise your glass to Ned Devine!

 

[venray]

Honesty is always the best policy, but it often times comes with consequences....karma tends to reward those that are honest in the end. however...

 

[Excess]

Technically it should be, but in practice many people tend to want what they think is honesty, rather than what is.

And sometimes lying is better. Like if someone ask you what you got them as a gift, and you tell them you got them a box set of Glee. Then they feel bad, but when you tell them you were lying and you actually got them a box set of Seinfeld, the effect is better imo. Unless you actually like Glee anyway. 😛

 

[Marty Pants]

Honesty is always the best policy, but it often times comes with consequences....karma tends to reward those that are honest in the end. however...

I believe Karma (whatever that is) is way over-rated.

I mean, really? What has Karma ever done for you or me or anyone?

I think it's a myth, but that's just me.

The Dad was being really stupid, and there is no nobility in stupidity.
He screwed his son out of $50K by shooting off his big mouth.
I'm willing to be that even the DD would do things different if he had another chance.

 

[Marty Pants]

Having wisdom is the best policy.

Really?!?
Come on, Really?!?
What does wisdom have to do with being 100% honest?
Owls are pretty wise and Dads are usually dumb. LOL!
I think they are 2 totally seprate things, but that's just me.

~Marty

 

[Cosmo_ac]

I'm guessing Bohemianne means that having the wisdom to know when to be honest and when not to be is important, but that's just my take of their comment.

 

[kurchatovium]

For the most part honesty is the best policy but in the real world I think there are exceptions. I always ask myself why I am thinking of lying to this person? or why I am going to tell them the blunt truth? Is it for my personal benefit or is it for their benefit? Or maybe for society's benefit? If the action I am considering taking is just for my personal benefit then I will likely reconsider. One always needs to remember that actions have consequences. As old japanese saying goes "One can not toss a pebble into a pond and not make waves"

 

[Franky]

Honesty is most likely the best policy unless you are dealing with humans.
Why? Not all humans are honest or even care about another human/animal at times.
So, I would say it is better to do your best to figure out when to be honest whether it be full or partial disclosure, and when to lie be it for a positive motive or a negative motive. Because, there are times when a person has a reason to either not say anything, only provide a partial truth, or to lie, and the person on the receiving end may never know or only suspect the "lie."
And while this may sound preposterous, than you can be thankful that you (to your knowledge) have not been put in this kind of a situation. Cause they do exist!

As for the dad, I vote that he should have kept quiet or the company could have at least given them the rest of the money.

 

[Bothersome]

In an idealist's world, honesty is the best policy.

In the real world, honesty usually gets you slapped.

 

[Bohemianne]

I'm guessing Bohemianne means that having the wisdom to know when to be honest and when not to be is important, but that's just my take of their comment.

Yes. Thank you for your wisdom, lol.

...

Just to relate a story, when King Solomon announced that he will decapitate/cut a baby into two so that the two mothers can both have a fair share of the baby, he used his wisdom and LIED first before he was able to solve the conflict. It's just a story but it seems to be influential in the biblical history.