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It Almost Happens Again..

Mitchell

Level of Coral Feather
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
33,502
Points
48
I hate to have to post this after the tradegy on Friday, and I'm not good at posting links, but, I just read that police in Indiana have arrested a man who had 47 guns in his posession. The man issued threats to "set his wife on fire", and then to "Kill as many people as he could", at a local elementary school. Thank heaven they found him and arrested him.

Even though he didnt accomplish his evil threats, this guy deserves a life sentence.

If anyone has the link to this, and could post, it would be appreciated.
 
Don't feel bad about posting this. Especially after what happened on Friday. It's good to hear good news every once in a while.

On a lighter note...

Mg5yk.jpg
 
Well, even though the guy had 47 guns, the only charge mentioned in Bothersome's article is "felony intimidation," a crime for which he ought to go down hard, I'll agree. I read a few more articles about this arrest, and it appears that the perp is also being charged with domestic battery and resisting law enforcement. Well and good, he deserves the hard justice that's coming to him.

Curiously, I can find no report of any charges against him for illegal possession of firearms. Now it seems to me that if any one of those 47 guns were not 100% legal, they would have eagerly filed firearm charges as well. Anything to help keep him off the street, right? Yet with all those guns, no mention of any charges relating to them. One is forced to conclude that though excessive in number, there was nothing illegal about the guns.

So my question is....Why mention the guns at all? The guy was not arrested for illegal firearms, but for making death threats, domestic battery, and resisting law enforcement.

The answer is simple. To associate legitimate gun ownership with this wife-beating, child-threatening asshole. To paint gun owners as evil, violent people. Look at Salon's headline for this incident:

Indiana man arrested with 47 guns after threats to local school

You can cut the sensationalism with a knife. "Arrested with 47 guns." It reads as though the guy had 47 guns on his person. "Hey man, do you have 47 guns in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?"

The guns had nothing to do with his arrest, or his crime! But the media makes certain that everybody knew the guy had 47 guns.

'Cause guns are bad, mmkay?
 
It was obviously sensationalism, although the implication was obvious.

He wasn't going to kill anyone with a cricket bat, after all.
 
The problem is the association of the guns with his threat. Say, for example, the man had been a gun collector, had the firearms, and didnt issue the threats he did. There probably wouldnt be an issue.

However, after what happened on Friday, a man in posession of 47 guns, who threatened to enter a school, kill as many people as he could, and set his wife on fire, is a problem. His threats, along with the fact that he had 47 guns.
 
I mean, it definitely WAS sensationalism, but it was realistic journalism as well. The two things were quite obviously related.

If a man was arrested for making a threat to bomb an airport, and then had his home searched, only to find that he had a stockpile of explosives... well, I think we'd all be able to put 2 and 2 together.
 
The demonization of gun ownership continues...

It was obviously sensationalism, although the implication was obvious.
What, that it takes 47 guns to set a woman on fire and kill any significant number of children?

He wasn't going to kill anyone with a cricket bat, after all.
Gee, thanks for setting our trembling hearts at ease. I'm sure many are relieved. :crazy:

The problem is the association of the guns with his threat.
What exactly is the association? In what way is legitimate gun ownership associated with making threats on women and children?

Say, for example, the man had been a gun collector, had the firearms, and didnt issue the threats he did. There probably wouldnt be an issue.
You're forgetting the domestic battery. Even that aside, the question to ask is, would the threats be just as serious if the guy legally owned ten guns? Or one gun? What if he didn't own any guns at all, would that make the threats to his wife and the school any less heinous?

However, after what happened on Friday, a man in posession of 47 guns, who threatened to enter a school, kill as many people as he could, and set his wife on fire, is a problem.
Agreed.

His threats, along with the fact that he had 47 guns.
How do the 47 guns play into the problem? Can you explain that, please?

I mean, it definitely WAS sensationalism, but it was realistic journalism as well. The two things were quite obviously related.
Sorry, it's not obvious to me. Can you explain how gun ownership relates to making threats against women and children?

If a man was arrested for making a threat to bomb an airport, and then had his home searched, only to find that he had a stockpile of explosives... well I think we'd all be able to put 2 and 2 together.
Pretty silly analogy, given that for the average Joe, stockpiling explosives is always illegal. Collecting guns isn't.

Both you and Mitchell are demonizing legitimate gun ownership. You Bothersome, even went so far as to analogously place it alongside stockpiling explosives. I know that there are several TMF members who own guns that probably wouldn't appreciate that.
 
DAJT, I'm going to try and answer your questions, although I doubt anything I say will be satisfactory to you.

In what way did I ever "demonize" legitimate gun ownership? Had I done that, my post would have read something like "Anyone who owns a gun is a threat.. or a bad person". That is not what I said.. Of course I'm aware that people own guns for legitimate reasons. Protection, hunting, gun collection, etc.

I'm by no means saying that everyone who owns 47 guns is a threat, because, people might own that many guns for the previous purposes I stated. I',m saying that in THIS CASE, and in consideration of the man's threats against the school, the fact that he owned 47 guns is a great concern.

Does that clarify my position?
 
Your position was clear from the start, Mitch. Don't let DAJT try and demonize you.

A man who owns 47 guns and makes constant death threats is a danger. He is a threat, and should be treated as a national security risk. He has the means to commit mass murder, whereas a man armed with a chicken wing would be considerably less threatening.

He is not a threat solely because of his guns, or solely because he made a death threat. It was the combination of the two.

Some people just don't have the intellectual capacity to understand something that isn't laid out in front of them.
 
DAJT, I'm going to try and answer your questions, although I doubt anything I say will be satisfactory to you.

In what way did I ever "demonize" legitimate gun ownership? Had I done that, my post would have read something like "Anyone who owns a gun is a threat.. or a bad person". That is not what I said.. Of course I'm aware that people own guns for legitimate reasons. Protection, hunting, gun collection, etc.

I'm by no means saying that everyone who owns 47 guns is a threat, because, people might own that many guns for the previous purposes I stated. I',m saying that in THIS CASE, and in consideration of the man's threats against the school, the fact that he owned 47 guns is a great concern.

Does that clarify my position?
No, I'm afraid it doesn't. I asked you three questions that you basically ignored altogether. For example, you said there was an association between owning 47 guns and the threats against his wife and the school. I asked you to explain what that association was. You ignored the question.

I also asked you if his threats would be any less reprehensible if the guy only owned ten guns, or even one gun. You ignored the question.

And finally, I asked you how the 47 guns play into the problem of the threats? You ignored that question as well.

But lest I be guilty of the same discourtesy, allow me to answer your question. Specifically, you asked me in what way did you ever "demonize" legitimate gun ownership?"

You did it by insisting it was part of "the problem" and suggesting an association between owning 47 guns and making threats to women and children. We've all agreed that the perp should go down hard for beating his wife and threatening her and the school children.

What you haven't explained is why owning 47 guns makes it any more of a problem, or how it contributes to the problem. You said that the fact he owns 47 guns is of "great concern," but you still haven't explained why. The demonization of which I speak comes from you in the form of guilt by association. The guy made death threats. The guy owns 47 guns (legally, to the best of our knowledge). You are linking these two disparate facts in a way that seems unreasonable, unfair, or at best, unclear.

Your position was clear from the start, Mitch.
Well sure, it's clear to you. You demonized gun ownership worse than he did.

Don't let DAJT try and demonize you.
Buzz off. If I ask Mitchell for clarification, just how is that any of your business?

A man who owns 47 guns and makes constant death threats is a danger. He is a threat, and should be treated as a national security risk.
I think that's bordering on melodrama. His threats were all local, not national. But I agree that he is a threat, with or without the guns.

He has the means to commit mass murder, whereas a man armed with a chicken wing would be considerably less threatening.
Sure he does, but so do a lot of law-abiding citizens. You could say that anybody who has $700 to his name has the means to commit mass murder by simply purchasing an AK 47 and a few clips.

He is not a threat solely because of his guns, or solely because he made a death threat. It was the combination of the two.
To say that owning the guns makes somebody a threat, even partially, is to demonize gun owners across the country, which is unreasonable, unfair, and just downright shitty.

Some people just don't have the intellectual capacity to understand something that isn't laid out in front of them.
And he ends his post with pseudo-intellectual snobbery. How nice.

And fyi, the article you posted has changed. it's headline now reads:

Chief: Ind. man wasn't serious about school threat

Yeah, how about that? The police chief doesn't believe Meyer was serious about the death threats. He also said the guns were mostly antique collector guns.

That sure puts a wet blanket on all your self-righteous anti-gun propoganda there, Mr. Intellectual Capacity.

:omnomnom:
 
Fine, tell you what, DAJT, I'm going to answer your questions, once, and the basically ignore this whole thing. I dont suspect that anything I say is going to satisfy you, but that being said.

First, no, there isnt a specific correlation between him owning 47 guns, and the threats against his wife and the school.

Second, No, the threats would not be any less reprehensible if he owned only one gun, or ten guns,

Third, and this is my honest answer.. While the 47 guns dont specifically play into the problem of the threats, my view is that the COMBINATION of the threats, and the fact that he owned 47 guns, after the tradegy that happened, could be PERCEIVED by not only law enforcement, but also others, as a problem. Many times the climate of the situation determines how people react.

There, answers to all three questions, but I suspect you wont be satisfied, because it seems you always have to take issues with me for one reason or another. Not that I care.
 
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