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Judge refuses orders

Limeoutsider

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The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court said Thursday he will not remove a Ten Commandments monument from the state judicial building, defying a federal court order to remove the granite monument. "I have no intention of removing the monument," Roy Moore said at a news conference. "This I cannot and will not do." Moore said he will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court to stop any removal, good for him!
 
Good to hear...

...that there are still some in authority that have the integrity to stand by their beliefs, not compromising to appease the noisy minority. Sounds like a good man! The country needs more with that kind of honor.:cool2: 😎
 
Uh...no

AffectionateDan said:
...there are still some in authority that have the integrity to stand by their beliefs, not compromising to appease the noisy minority. Sounds like a good man! The country needs more with that kind of honor.:cool2: 😎


Um, what he's doing is pushing his religion. Seperation of church and state dictates that as a no-no, which is why he's being told to remove the monument. It's not HIS building, he just works there.

The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court is heading for a showdown with a higher authority over his insistence on using the state's power to push his religion.



Chief Justice Roy Moore will announce today whether he will honor an Aug. 20 federal court deadline for removing a 2½-ton monument to the Ten Commandments that Moore surreptitiously installed in the rotunda of his court building one night two years ago. Some of Moore's evangelical Christian friends are threatening to physically block any effort to remove the black granite block inscribed with the Commandments.


In spite of their arguments, this case is not about whether the Ten Commandments is a religious text or, as they claim, a summary of religious and civil law. That question was put to rest by the nation's highest court in a 1980 Supreme Court ruling that found the Ten Commandments is "undeniably a sacred text." Therefore, the court ruled, posting it on public buildings violates the separation of church and state.


Instead, Moore's actions test whether the Supreme Court is the ultimate authority for interpreting the U.S. Constitution. Otherwise, Moore, as the officer of a state court, can thumb his nose at a long history of Supreme Court rulings.


Proponents describe the Commandments as an important but benign acknowledgement of the origins of universal law. But a close reading suggests they're largely concerned with religion:


The First Commandment to most Christians and the Second to Jews is "thou shalt have no other God before me," a religious doctrine subscribed to by many Americans, but certainly not all.


More than half of the Commandments' biblical text is about religious observance: no idolatry, no misuse of the Lord's name and no work on the Sabbath, for example.


The Supreme Court considers the matter settled: Three attempts to reopen the issue were turned away in the past three years.


Yet similar disputes over publicly posting the Ten Commandments are bubbling currently in at least 13 other states, from Washington and Arizona to Massachusetts and Florida. One fight over a plaque on a courthouse in West Chester, Pa., has pitted neighbor against neighbor in a battle of suburban lawn signs. Last month, Kentucky had to pay court-ordered costs of more than $120,000 after losing a lawsuit over an unconstitutional Ten Commandments monument legislators acquired three years ago.


By some counts there are nearly 2,000 religions, denominations, traditions and sects in this diverse land. Each deserves the protection from a state-established religion that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees.


The U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) is the proper authority for deciding when the Constitution's promises are endangered. Its willingness to embrace that role even in the face of recalcitrant state authorities has served the nation well in past disputes over school desegregation and voting rights.


The high court's authority is no less important today as some state officials use an important part of Jewish and Christian religious tradition in a divisive game of one-upmanship that is an affront both to religion and to the ideals of a tolerant civil society.
 
Reminds me of George Wallace standing in the schoolhouse door when it came time to desegregate the University of Alabama. Amounted to little more than a photo op. I think Mr. Chief Justice will stand aside when the time comes.
I have nothing against posting the Ten Commandments. I think they should be posted prominently in places where the inhabitants don't have any intention of honoring them, like, say, Legislative Bodies, Bella? 🙂 Seriously, though, we might be going too far here.
The Bush Administration actively seeks every day to destroy the separation between Church and State. Obviously, this Chief Justice is an example of someone who has an utter disregard for this concept. You find these moles everywhere in the Government nowadays, e.g Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA). They have to be rooted out.
 
You got to admire the guy for standing up to his principles

This isn't about pushing religion. It's about preserving history. That granite monument is an icon of the south and whether or not it stays should be decided by the state. It's unconcionable that the Federal courts would interfere. Like I'm sure it's really doing a lot of harm, just offending hindus and budists right and left. 🙄 It's a perfect example of taking political correctness to yet another extreme. Sure, he'll lose in the end, but unlike the beaurocrats here in DC, he'll at least know he tried to do the right thing.
 
High-fives Drew

drew70 said:
This isn't about pushing religion. It's about preserving history. That granite monument is an icon of the south and whether or not it stays should be decided by the state. It's unconcionable that the Federal courts would interfere. Like I'm sure it's really doing a lot of harm, just offending hindus and budists right and left. 🙄 It's a perfect example of taking political correctness to yet another extreme. Sure, he'll lose in the end, but unlike the beaurocrats here in DC, he'll at least know he tried to do the right thing.

Hear hear! Testify! Get on with your bad self! Separation of Church and State my delicate, lily-white keester! 😛 This country was founded by people who believed in certain principals, and we're watching them deliberately undermined and eroded every damned day, allowing it to happen. Yet people have the audacity to gripe about how bad things are getting. Maybe, if we clung to out values a little more, we wouldn't be having to compromise like this all the damned time. I applaud the man. Even if this is just a ploy for publicity.
 
Re: You got to admire the guy for standing up to his principles

drew70 said:
This isn't about pushing religion. It's about preserving history. That granite monument is an icon of the south and whether or not it stays should be decided by the state. It's unconcionable that the Federal courts would interfere. Like I'm sure it's really doing a lot of harm, just offending hindus and budists right and left. 🙄 It's a perfect example of taking political correctness to yet another extreme. Sure, he'll lose in the end, but unlike the beaurocrats here in DC, he'll at least know he tried to do the right thing.


This all sounds eerily familiar.

Weren't there similar arguments made in support of Confederate flags over government buildings?
 
Re: Re: You got to admire the guy for standing up to his principles

MrPartickler said:
This all sounds eerily familiar.

Weren't there similar arguments made in support of Confederate flags over government buildings?

You know what? You're right!

I'll have to think about that next time someone waves the Ten Commandments around and goes about lynching people because of the color of their skin.

Good point! Exactly the same! 🙄
 
Re: Good to hear...

AffectionateDan said:
...that there are still some in authority that have the integrity to stand by their beliefs, not compromising to appease the noisy minority. Sounds like a good man! The country needs more with that kind of honor.:cool2: 😎

Standing by his beliefs he may be, but in the course of his profession he has to rule over Christians, Jews, Muslims, agnostics and atheists. (Probably many others too.) Seeing as it was him rather than the body that appointed him that installed it, I don't think he's doing anything out of honour. It sounds more like he's trumpeting his religion and now't else. Nothing wrong with being proud of your spirituality, but I think he's overstepping the mark in installing it in a place where everyone of every denomination is supposed to be equal and the same.

I'm not deliberately picking a fight with Drew either, sometimes I wish there was something he'd put that I could agree with, because it'd show I was un-biased. It may indeed be an "icon of the south", but I don't think that gives it good reason to be in the place it is. By all means install it somewhere prominent; but perhaps somewhere like a heriatage museum would be more appropriate?
 
Re: High-fives Drew

AffectionateDan said:
Hear hear! Testify! Get on with your bad self! Separation of Church and State my delicate, lily-white keester! 😛 This country was founded by people who believed in certain principals, and we're watching them deliberately undermined and eroded every damned day, allowing it to happen. Yet people have the audacity to gripe about how bad things are getting. Maybe, if we clung to out values a little more, we wouldn't be having to compromise like this all the damned time. I applaud the man. Even if this is just a ploy for publicity.

I beieve in believing. (I could've rephrashed that to be more eloquent, but I'm too tired to be arsed.) I believe in a lot of things loving christians believe in. I don't think that includes something that is ostensibly Christian (done by something of a puritan) should be a part of something that is supposed to be impartial and judicial. By all means the people who love it should be proud of it, but don't have it right under the noses of people who are there to be judged and don't subscribe to it.

Peace.
 
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If it's old and heavy, like my grand-mama, it's probably easier on the taxpayers just to leave the thing there. And add that it does have some historical/cultural siginifcance.... can't people just ignore stuff anymore? I do all the time, especially when I need to run into the mall and there's those pregnant-women-only parking places standing between me and my self-determination of situational automobile placement.....
 
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