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Kim Jong Il may be bluffing, but still:

damn, and here i thought were gonna be able to waste more american lives going to war with them once iraq is an uninhapitable dustbowl. hehe, pardon that very dark joke.

great news, bleeding great news, chip, chap, cheery-oh! or whatever those wacky brits say. :tounge:
 
Its all well and good until someone says sucker! and uses them anyways. While externally this is a very good thing to hear, its all politics. Every nation truely only has it's best interests at heart in the end. Its all about self-preservation and the continuation of your own kind, unfortunately. And N. Korea knows that America possesses Nuclear ICBMs (InterContinental Balistic Missle), so they feel the need to compete with that. They don't trust us any more than we trust them, or any other former power than may have accumulated WMDs like ICBMs or have been stockpiling and researching them for decades.

When you're talking specifically about Nuclear Winter or any other terminology which refers to a nuclear war, theres no dispute that America would win no matter what, since we have more, a better overall offensive/defensive posture, and our offenses and are stationed in such a way that we could strike multiple countries at the same time. And there are people that would actually be proud of that fact (it would/may make one feel all-powerful for a moment, but thats just a fleeting feeling once the reality of what you're thinking about hits you and you feel the shame of being proud of your nation's ability to kill billions). There are no winners in nuclear warfare, nay, theres no winners in war period. Whats so dangerous about technology is our ability to use it at a distance (a distance which grows and grows), to bring instant death to millions from the other side of the world. Unlike terrorists, countries like N. Korea wouldn't necessarily have to smuggle missle parts into our borders and build the missles here. They could very well launch them, at any target within range. Everyone knows that everyone else is capable of doing the same thing.

In a real way, we all have our finger on the button and we're all underplaying our nuclear capabilities so that we don't tip our hand to all potential advesaries. People say they aren't researching this god-forsaken technology any more, or are agreeing to hault such programs, but thats just buying time by bogging other nations and ministries down in procedures.

A third world war is just a push of a button away. This is not only disturbing for what it can do, cause, and lead to, but how it would change the status of the free world's fragile peace agreement and coexistance. We would become animals working only by instinct alone. There would be no more philosophy, no more mind, no more matter, no more values and no more heart. We would all become monsters. Nuclear war is basically the line in the sand. Its a line no one wants to cross right now, but would be willing to if pushed. We can only hope and continue to pray that no one goes this far. We can only hope that the weopons continue to be an instrument of intimidation, fear, and terror and nothing more.

One push of a button. Thats all it takes. Thats the reality, and it sickens me.
 
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Vladislaus Dracula said:
One push of a button. Thats all it takes. Thats the reality, and it sickens me.

Yea, deep down inside that's what I worry about too. But ya gotta ask yourself -- how in god's name have we avoided even 1 nuclear attack for so long?
 
tickleeforgals said:
Yea, deep down inside that's what I worry about too. But ya gotta ask yourself -- how in god's name have we avoided even 1 nuclear attack for so long?

Because of the aftermath of such an action. No one right now wants to deal with the aftermath of using nuclear weopons unless they are using them for complete destruction as an attempt to make a power play for the world. If thats not what it is (though it would do it if anyone survived) you effectively kill your relations with your allies, you increase your number of enemies, the economy dies, countries cut you off from their natural resources, no one will trade or buy from you, and you are left alone and are dead to the rest of the world. And this is only if you don't die by the same fate you dealt out.

The thing is, America wouldn't die. Because we are the most powerful nation on this Earth in every concievable way, we automatically, by mere presense alone, make ourselves a threat to everyone else. We are the empire everyone else will try and topple. But they realize its futile, and, that if we wanted, we could wipe them out. All of them.

So as it stands, America doesn't do it because we're just not that way, but we have the potential to be. The world thanks us by not overstepping their bounds either (this includes N. Korea). I know its a double-standard on the part of the U.S, but it is what it is. If any other country had the shot at this position we hold in the world, they will have made an attempt at it too.

We're big brother, and everyone begrudgingly accepts that. Its not fair to many and it never will be, but it could be worse, alot worse. We could have Osama Bin Laden or Adolf Hitler's mentality. We don't, and thats something to be deeply grateful for the world over.

EDIT:

America isn't perfect and it never will be. It has failed others in the past, in the present, and it fails itself sometimes or often (depending on your opinions or circumstances) (No country is excempt from failing no matter it's station). But when it comes to maintaining the order of the world or attempting to, I think we've done a pretty damn good job of that since we became a super power with the help of our allies, and that the power is inevitably in good hands trying to do the right thing. We cannot control evil thinking which leads to evil actions however any more than we can control natural disasters or famine. For all that we concievably could do, thats something(s) we cannot. We can try and make plans to slow it down, or help reverse it (which we do), but its ultimately up to fate. Its like an alien invasion. You can plan for it, but will you ever truely be ready? I don't think so. Why? Because you don't know what to expect. It might happen, it might not happen. You can't act until it happens.

A part of the hardship of being in this position is that the world expects us to answer the call every time as if we're a demi-god who has the solution to everything. We cannot help everyone, nor should we be expected to.

We can help bring balance but not peace or prosperity necessarily. Thats up to each individual country.

People like this Kim Jong Il however undermind that all the time (perhaps not fully understanding the reprocussions). And so we have these types of worries, problems, and tensions. Just because some want to be rogues.

Even a single nuclear warhead underminds everything, whether its used or merely stands as a symbolic reference of another country's defiance.

Actually, I just brought up alien invasion a moment ago. And really, if you think about it, that would straighten this world up in a heartbeat (hopefully). We would all unify together to fight the extraterestrial invaders, and if we survive the contact we'll be battered and torn asunder, but we will have realized that there are forces at work more powerful than us as individual countries, even as a race. And with that knowledge in mind, our arrogance will be broken and our unity cemented. The rogues may still exist (and will want to do their own thing), but the world would be in a better way...at least until the next hostile aliens show up, or the same ones return for another war.

Of course, its 50/50 (possibly), and who would ever want that to happen? Its cool in the movies and video games and such, but reality? I'm not so sure.

Or think of it another possibile way- what if they come with an offer to aid specific countries just as a game to see what we'll do to eachother to win their alliegence? That could just drive a further wedge into the mix. And we might end up all dying anyways.

I'm thinking outloud now and I'm tired. I'll stop now. LOL 😛
 
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but if they mess with the U.S., were gonna f**k em up 10 fold.
 
I'm new to Nukes, at least they were never an issue in Hungary. (we are so worthless...:sad: nobody would throw a nuke at us...😛) Is there any way to stop a nuke from reaching its destination, like shooting it down with some anti nuke...nuke? XD
 
Hungarian2 said:
I'm new to Nukes, at least they were never an issue in Hungary. (we are so worthless...:sad: nobody would throw a nuke at us...😛) Is there any way to stop a nuke from reaching its destination, like shooting it down with some anti nuke...nuke? XD

Previous U.S Presidents refered to a special program called "Star Wars". Part of what this program consisted of was the technology and ability to rapidly intercept incoming missles or projectiles, effectively creating a shield of protection over specific areas of the country (presumably the most critical)

Black Op. projects have propelled this idea forward, though we've yet to see the fruits of their labor.

As for how it stands now, every country pretty much relies on fighter craft interception for incoming missles. Radar detects an incoming bogey and fighters are launched to intercept. If the target is far away they use their afterburners to reach the targets faster. Thats standard procedure as I understand it.

The Star Wars project would, presumably, eliminate the need to launch fighters and instead launches long-range interceptor missles specifically geared toward eliminating other missles before those missles even come close to their destination.

We have this technology now, but its not perfected yet.
 
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so... the government created star wars and not gearge lucas! ah-hah! i was right!

and if the star wars project excisted, and a nuke was fired at us, and the defence worked, the governemt would right it off as fireworks or a meteor shower. as they say, ignorance is bliss. and the government uses that tactic very well.
 
The Star Wars project and others like it wouldn't necessarily have to be kept top secret forever (though the locations would be obviously). Some of our stealth bombers were once top secret, but eventually they were declassified and knowledge about them entered the public sector. The government would also not deny the public from knowing theres a possible nuclear threat. Thats why we have that ridiculous terror alert system, with the different color levels and such. The government can only do so much though. Its up to the individual to already have their own survival kits and packs ready and to have backup plans for everything, meeting places, etc, and to listen to survival steps your officials give you and ones the government themselves have released.

The truth is, the chance of surviving a nuclear attack is higher than people think it is (provided you are not in the initial blast radius), if you don't waste time and you don't listen to your initial impulses and fears (which are often wrong) and you plan ahead.

Also, allowing the public to know these anti-missle programs exist will help them save face and make them look good. It shows that they are taking steps to keep us safe from these types of attacks as well. Theres no reason to deny their existance, and we already know about them. Its the technology that drives them (blueprints and such) that we don't know about, and shouldn't know about. Because if we know about them, terrorists know about them. This is all just common sense really.
 
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Vladislaus Dracula said:
Previous U.S Presidents refered to a special program called "Star Wars". Part of what this program consisted of was the technology and ability to rapidly intercept incoming missles or projectiles, effectively creating a shield of protection over specific areas of the country (presumably the most critical)

Black Op. projects have propelled this idea forward, though we've yet to see the fruits of their labor.

As for how it stands now, every country pretty much relies on fighter craft interception for incoming missles. Radar detects an incoming bogey and fighters are launched to intercept. If the target is far away they use their afterburners to reach the targets faster. Thats standard procedure as I understand it.

The Star Wars project would, presumably, eliminate the need to launch fighters and instead launches long-range interceptor missles specifically geared toward eliminating other missles before those missles even come close to their destination.

We have this technology now, but its not perfected yet.


:happy: Thanx for that info. I knew there was something against nukes, I just didn't know what it really was. So here's my next question: I know that the USA has begun a program where all nukes are dessabled and....thrown away, I guess. Did this happen? Is america really out of nukes? And if not, then why is america suprised that other countries want to have their own nukes?
 
MistressValerie said:
Sadly, North Korea is already jeopardising the deal by demanding a light-water nuclear reactor before it will disarm: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1141754

them whiney-assed koreans 🙄 (j/k)

they think they need nukes cause we're gonna nuke them, so need nukes? please, why would we waste a nuke on north korea? seriously.
 
Bignorm868 said:
them whiney-assed koreans 🙄 (j/k)

they think they need nukes cause we're gonna nuke them, so need nukes? please, why would we waste a nuke on north korea? seriously.

Because they'd waste a nuke on us.
 
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MistressValerie said:
Sadly, North Korea is already jeopardising the deal by demanding a light-water nuclear reactor before it will disarm: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1141754

Just like I thought. To their credit, the koreans are a very industrious people, just like the japanese, but they are just stubborn. If we didn't impose these agreements on them they would have a full nuclear arsenal right now (whose to say they don't). Its not like we're sending any more of those UN weopons inspectors in there.

Its funny. They will agree to disarm, and yet the want and alternative means to still make developing/researching nuclear-powered weopons a reality. This is just an attempt at a stalemate.

I can't believe we're taking them seriously. I mean, we know the score, we're not stupid, but we cannot really do anything about it. And thats frustrating.
 
Hungarian2 said:
I dunno.....wait, so we still have nukes?! :wooha:

LOL! You're just joking right?! Of course we still have nukes and we're researching bigger and better ones! We have the most in the world. We have to. If countries like Korea ever had more than we did, that would upset the balance and allow them to undermine other countries by show of force or terror tactics. The mere possession of a nuclear weopon is the equivelent of the Death Star battlestation being used to force planets to capitulate to imperial rule.

Only in this instance, its more of a political tool than a terror one (though the Death Star was used for that too). Korea stays on the board by this controversy of nuclear weopons and whether or not they have them. People don't know whether they're a possible threat or are just good at playing the field.

America has the nukes for the right reasons- to maintain its standing as the most powerful nation, but we would never use them for terror tactics, nor have we waved our stockpile in anyone's face.
 
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Hungarian2 said:
:happy: Thanx for that info. I knew there was something against nukes, I just didn't know what it really was. So here's my next question: I know that the USA has begun a program where all nukes are dessabled and....thrown away, I guess. Did this happen? Is america really out of nukes? And if not, then why is america suprised that other countries want to have their own nukes?

Its like I said earlier, friend, its a double-standard. America still has them and continues to research them for several reasons. The biggest excuse though is because we cannot risk the chance that other countries are researching and developing them and we are not. We cannot assume or give blind faith in other countries playing by the book in agreements either.

See, because Korea and other countries like it are not as well off as we are nor do they hold the position we hold in the world, nuclear research is extremely important to them to keep them in the running. It would only ever be a third world country or a close second that would be tempted to use nuclear weopons to gain more influence and leverage.

The U.S doesn't have to resort to this, but we still research the technology because desperate countries will research anything if it could mean it would give them an edge of some kind, a means to undermine things.

Everything N. Korea has done as far as this is concerned, and continues to do is an attempt to undermind. They know possession of nuclear weopons puts them in the forefront of things and that because they have them or may have them it makes other countries think twice about them at the negotiation table.
 
Death Star and the force....thanx, those are terms I can relate to.😛😀
 
Vladislaus Dracula said:
Its like I said earlier, friend, its a double-standard. America still has them and continues to research them for several reasons. The biggest excuse though is because we cannot risk the chance that other countries are researching and developing them and we are not. We cannot assume or give blind faith in other countries playing by the book in agreements either.

See, because Korea and other countries like it are not as well off as we are nor do they hold the position we hold in the world, nuclear research is extremely important to them to keep them in the running. It would only ever be a third world country or a close second that would be tempted to use nuclear weopons to gain more influence and leverage.

The U.S doesn't have to resort to this, but we still research the technology because desperate countries will research anything if it could mean it would give them an edge of some kind, a means to undermine things.

Everything N. Korea has done as far as this is concerned, and continues to do is an attempt to undermind. They know possession of nuclear weopons puts them in the forefront of things and that because they have them or may have them it makes other countries think twice about them at the negotiation table.


......Maybe they are just getting revenge for Team America 🙄 .....fuck yeah.😛
 
Yeah, I thought I'd throw some Stars Wars up in here. 😛

As for the revenge...if only it were that simple. Err wait...using nukes is going too far just for a puppet movie! 😛
 
Only if that puppet movie is for adults; kids love action. 😛
 
Vladislaus Dracula said:
Because they'd waste a nuke on us.

hehe, good point. :tounge:

that kim jong, looks like one really comical dictator, like he wants to be funny for the world.
 
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