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Men and Cheating

ShiningIce

3rd Level Green Feather
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Feb 14, 2002
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Do men really cheat on their signifigant others as much as the media portrays?? and if so why?? Are men genetically wired to be "cheaters"?? Is it in our blood?? Woman cheat as well.....but for some reason men SEEM (I say seem because I'm not sure) to do it more. Are we to blame or are we only doing what nature intended us to do?? 😕 😕 😕 😕
 
I tend to take these surveys and studies with some skepticism.While the divorce rate in the US is about 50%,I have seen an exposee that shows it is actually about 20%.This ia after you use a "grading curve" and delete those who marry and divorce 4 times and up.While they are divorces,these marriages were considered to be too frivolous to be counted.
I can't say what is accurate or not,but much also depends on who you ask.I have never cheated on a partner(never married),never will,but I sure would never admit to it if I had.
Another show I saw on TLC attributed the rates of female loyalty to oxytosin and the female traits for nurturing a family.This would appear to make the situation a biological one.The male is said to cheat when another partner makes him feel the way he needs...the
"something is mising" scenario.An interview with prostitutes also suggested that sexual acts left unattended were also a cause,but you can take that as you wish.
Just realize that we are human...we fail,but we can also control our behavior.
 
But how much willpower do men really have when it comes to their libidos??????
 
For what situation?

Are we talking tickling or sex here? Or any behavior that could be construed as beng affectionate to someone other than ones mate? Complicated subject...verrry complicated...tread carefully! Q
 
I'm just trying to find out if men trying not to cheat goes against nature itself. Some argue that its genetic for men to want to have sex with more than one women.
 
Genetics...

Some argue that the tendency to wage war is bred into us also...but given the advances we've seen this decade in bioengineering, I'll bet we get an answer to your question(s) in our lifetimes, at least from a scientific standpoint. Q
 
Despite the supposed biological leanings,many men do not cheat.Being overweight,having bad tempers,andhaving medical problems are all supposedly biological,too.Yet,these can also be controlled by the person involved.
 
hello

Well, i figured i might as well post on this subject, since i once heard about something like this. Now2, keep in mind, it was a long time ago when i heard this, and i can't remember exactly who from, but i do know it was another guy. He told me that men, back when we were cavemen basically, (and cavewomen) it was the males job to plant the seed metaphorically speaking, stay with the woman and child for a certain period of time, and then move on and find another temporary partner. The female of the speciaces would be the one who raised the children.

This could explain why to this day woman tend to have very strong maturnal instincts. (And anybody who argues different should go to a soccer game for five or six years olds and watch the soccer mom's :Grrr:

Now, this could also explain why men tend to have more of a wandering eye then most woman. And as far as statistics go, in my opnion, numbers never tell the whole story 😉
Course, i'm not saying that's a reason for men, or anybody to cheat on there spouse. I think cheating is very wrong because of how hurtful and destructive it can be. Even though we all have baser instincts, it's how we handle those instincts and desires that seperates us from the animals.
Anyway, this is just something i heard, and i could be very wrong, if so, feel free to tell me.
 
cosmo

I have heard the exact same thing on either a discovery or Learning channel show...except it was last year.
 
Responsible adults don't cheat on their wives. If you want to screw around, stay single.

Strelnikov
 
Responsible adults don't cheat on their wives.

I agree with this, wholeheartedly.
They also don't cheat on their taxes, take things that don't belong to them, drive drunk (or get drunk & do stupid things), get in fistfights (or wars), shirk duties (i.e., b/c they're "lazy"), care more about money or their own needs/wants than others' health and well-being, etc. Any others?
(Hmmm... sounds like the beginning of a new thread....lol) 😎

More on topic, as far as cheating is concerned, I don't think that men necessarily have too much more of a predisposition for it than women. They may have some, but there are sooo many social reasons to also account for discrepancies. Men, in general, do seem to be more easily "distracted" by physical attraction alone--and that certainly must add to the temptation. Still, it's more socially acceptable for men to openly "crave sex" and be more promiscuous than women. So you never really know if men are really into something a LOT more than women or if just a lot fewer women come forward to behave the same way. (Because it IS more difficult for them.) That must skew the apparent results too.

shark...
You pointed out a really good point earlier about the divorce statistic. It's yet another example of how misleading statistics can be if you take them at face value. Frequently they don't tell the whole story. Here are a few accompanying "stats" I'd like to see:
1) % of happy (read: "content") marriages
2) % of marriages that have one or more parties in them that are too intimidated/afraid or lazy to get a divorce.
3) % of loveless marriages (i.e., ones that aren't technically over, but effectively are.)
4) % of marriages "of convenience"
5) % of (physically or emotionally) abusive mariages
6) % of marriages enduring only "for the kids."
7) % of kids adversely affected by living around their parents bad marriage.
8) % of lives made better by a divorce

interesting, huh? lol
 
divorce is not the answer!

just last year a study was released, in it was sited how bad divorce is on the kids. the study ended by saying it is in fact, better for a bad marriage to stay together, than to divorce.
kids need they're parents to stop being so fucking selfish!
steve
 
Sigh...

Psychology is a business like any other. Psychologists have to provide what their customers want to get repeat business. Here's how that's worked out for my fellow Boomers and our children.

We Boomers, as a group, are self-centered, self-absorbed, and reluctant to take on adult responsibilities. Tired of being married? No prob, say the pshrinks. Do what's best for YOU. Screw the kids - they'll get over it. They're better off in single parent homes with weekend visitation. So long as YOU are happy, they'll be happy.

Turns out that's a crock of shit, which is why so many of our kids are screwed up. In nearly all cases, kids do better if they grow up in a home with both parents. Step-parents don't count - if Dad can leave, any stepdad can do the same with greater ease. There was something to "staying together for the kids" after all. It's called RESPONSIBILITY.

Strelnikov
 
Monagamy? well, maybe...

I'd like to offer a slightly different take on the issue of cheating. I feel that the majority of us are predispositioned to be involved with multiple partners.

I'll say up front that I'm not a monagamous person, and I don't believe that humans were meant to be so. I could write a book on the research supporting this, but suffice to say that it can be too much of a burden for two people to get everything they need from just one other person. Not always-twosomes can be a beautiful thing-but many people need more than one partner in life, for a spectrum of reasons. And much of the time, 'cheating' could simply be a healthy snd productive polyamorous relationship if not for the taboo that our society has placed on such ideas and lifestyles. When you say that cheating is irresponsible, I have to disagree, because sometimes its the most responsible thing to be done. Far better, IMO, than getting divorced and marrying again, finding out what's incompatible with this person and getting divorced again-'serial monagamy' as it's called.

Example: Suppose you marry someone with whom you want to share the rest of your life. After a few years, you realize that you have interests that your spouse truly dislikes-tickling, spanking, duck hunting...whatever. In every other way your spouse is your soulmate, but there is a significant part of you that is going unfulfilled and your partner simply cannot (or will not) work with you on it. She'd rather eat a bug than spank you, or allow herself to be tied up, etc. You can spend your life unhappy-"if you love me you'll give up XYZ that I disaprove of". You can try to bully and beg your spouse into sharing your interest-"If you love me you'll let me tie you up and chew your toenails". Or you can satisfy your need elsewhere. The first choice will make everyone miserable and resentful and may lead to divorce-then you lose your best friend and break up your family. The second choice will likely create some serious fights and leave your spouse feeling incompetent and insecure. The last choice is considered immoral, dishonest, etc...and when done responsibly has kept so many good marriages going that you can't count them all. You might argue that if it's that good a marriage then you should be able to get everything you need from it. That's a valid statement, but again I disagree, and I've seen waaayy too much to the contrary. Including my own situation, with which I won't bore you unless someone asks for details 🙂. I will say that my hubby knows about my other love and fully supports us, but the other wife is blissfully in the dark-we tried to tell her once and her head exploded.

It's funny, no one ever asked me why I wanted a second baby. No one ever wonders how you can love two or more friends, parents, siblings...but romantic love is supposed to be for just one other human or you must have problems with commitment and intimacy. Makes ya think, don't it?

Just my 2 cents, YMMV

Bella
 
Bella, you're right on. There was a white couple I used to know that lived their live happily together, and both partners were completely satisfied emotionally and sexually. The reason behind it was that they both were free to live out their fantasies. This guy's wife liked having sex with black guys occasionally, and he was fine with it. She loved her husband dearly, but was unable to live this fantasy with him for obvious reasons.

To this day she still has flings with black guys, and gets those urges out of her system. Her hubby watches and likes it too. I think this situation keeps them maddly in love with each other because they both really do have everything they want in life.

No my cup of tea, but who am I to judge?
Steve
 
Here, shiningice

I found this, hope it answers your questions:


Featured Destination: Port Townsend









Copyright © 1998 The Seattle Times Company

Posted at 03:43 a.m. PST; Tuesday, February 3, 1998

Not meant for monogamy? Blame the genes

by Carol M. Ostrom
Seattle Times staff reporter
We're not saying he did or he didn't, OK?

But if it turns out that President Clinton had a sexual liaison with an attractive young intern, evolutionary psychologists say there's a very good explanation.

His genes made him do it.

Robert Wright, author of "The Moral Animal - Why We Are the Way We Are: The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology," says many scientists who study evolution wouldn't be surprised to find that a president - like other "alpha males" in the animal kingdom - has sex with more than one woman.

"To a biologist," says Wright, "that is why men pursue power to start with: because it will lead to sex."

In evolution's terms, the goal is simple, whether you're a naked mole rat, a gorilla or a leader of nations: Get as many of your genes into the next generation as possible.

Robin Baker, an evolutionary biologist and author of "Sperm Wars: The Evolutionary Logic of Love and Lust," notes how evolutionary biologists measure success: by the rate of reproduction.

Some of the theories put forth by these evolutionary psychologists and biologists are controversial both inside and outside the scientific community. But as a group, they appear to have little doubt that humans, like many other species, are naturally polygynous. The word, similar to "polygamous," means that in the "natural" state, one male would mate with more than one female. Of about 1,200 past and present cultures studied, Wright says, in all but about 150 men could have multiple sex partners.

If evolution means perpetuating the species, these scientists reason, sticking with one woman is just not an efficient reproductive strategy for a man - who can, after all, produce enough sperm per pop to fertilize most of the Western Hemisphere, give or take. In that case, what psychological traits might evolution reward?

"For males, it's obvious that indiscriminate lust would help," says Wright.

The switches in a man's brain that help him accomplish his biological imperative - switches that flash "suck in stomach" upon spotting a female with a .7 waist-to-hip ratio, for example - have been fine-tuned over thousands of years.

While women are designed to succumb to men with a big wallet or the hope of one, men are designed to succumb to young women. It's a pattern that University of Texas psychologist David Buss found to be true across 37 different cultures.

Why do women favor men with more spacious caves, bigger herds of cows, Italian suits? Because evolutionarily, these have been the guys who were more likely to have the resources to care for their kids.

Why do men favor women with .7 waist-to-hip ratios, big eyes and small noses? Because those things are tip-offs to a woman's youth, a k a fertility.

Evolution can even be used to explain the connection between cheating and testicle size, scientists say. When sperm from different males must compete to fertilize a female's egg, sheer volume appears to help. So in species where the females mate with different males, males have relatively large testes.

In humans, notes Wright, testes weight falls between that of a chimpanzee (females are quite promiscuous) and a gorilla (one male monopolizes several females), which suggests that human females are "somewhat adventurous."

Using evolution to explain why men and women are different, and why they do what they do, is a relatively new trend in science. And scientists worry that people may misunderstand how the forces of evolution work.

For sure, it's not a conscious thing. It's not that men go around thinking, "I must ensure survival of my genetic material in the next generation." But somewhere in their brains, hormones are being triggered when opportunity arises, Baker says.

Behavior, he notes, is governed by hormones, which are in turn controlled by genes - genes selected by evolutionary forces.

Those evolutionary forces are the ones that can still make a perfectly sensitive, egalitarian 1990s kind of male nearly dislocate his vertebrae when that perfect .7 walks by. "I don't want to look," whimpered one such mate, "but I can't help it!"

You could think of it as your genes "whispering" in your ear, says David Barash, a University of Washington psychology professor and co-author of a new book, "Making Sense of Sex: How Genes and Gender Influence Our Relationships."

What are those genes whispering?

Maybe something like: "If you get to the top, you'll get more sex."

In animal life, the alpha male, the top dog, the big cheese - whether it's a naked mole rat or the big gorilla - gets the females, says Laura Betzig, an anthropologist and research scientist at the University of Michigan.

Not surprisingly, females appear to be attracted to dominant males - the ones who control territory (read: "food") and are in a better position to fight off predators.

In human life, the same logic works, says Betzig. In two dozen studies she and fellow anthropologists conducted on traditional societies, from hunter-gatherers in Africa to fishers in the Arctic, "the guy who has the most resources, higher status, who brings home more meat, almost always gets access to more women and produces more children."

The lure of status means a short, overweight guy with glasses and a lot of money or power can attract comely women. When former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said power is the greatest aphrodisiac, he wasn't woofin': Playboy bunnies named Kissinger as the man they'd most like to date.

Historically, some human alpha males have put gorillas to shame, it seems. "Kings had more power than any animal ever had on earth," Betzig notes. In fifth-century India, one ruler collected 16,000 women in his royal harem, for example.

An evolutionary biologist calls this "enhanced sexual access."

"It's the object of the game," notes Wright. "It's the reason why you fought your way there - it's almost the purpose of politics."

But what's natural isn't always what's best for a society: Just because male infidelity comes highly recommended by evolution doesn't mean it's inevitable, some evolution experts agree.

For one thing, while "cheating genes" may be directing a powerful urge, they aren't the only ones operating.

Evolution also affects our ability to judge the costs and benefits of infidelity, Baker argues. "Genetics tell us to examine the environment and figure out what's best to do," he says. That impulse, he says, though probably not as intense as the impulse to go after any available female, is also genetically determined.

"The evidence is that what humans are is pragmatic," he says. "If they live in an environment where a male can only support one female and her offspring, then they tend to be monogamous," whereas in other environments, under other conditions, males tend to take multiple female partners.

There are lots of good reasons why a man, or a society, might opt for monogamy, Wright says. Truly polygynous societies are often nasty places, because a relatively small number of high-status men monopolize the "sexual resources" of women, shutting out the low-status men, who get surly and violent.

In general, children who don't grow up with fathers are more in danger of economic deprivation as well as abuse or death by stepfathers or live-in boyfriends, says Wright.

Betzig, the anthropologist, argues that there's an even better reason to value monogamy.

Even though the alleged presidential hanky-panky might be "incredibly trivial" by historical standards, Betzig says, polygyny is reflective of a power imbalance - not what we should want in a democracy.

"Sexual power is the tip of this power iceberg," Betzig argues.

These are all good reasons for society to favor monogamy. But these evolutionary psychologists say men will still struggle with that age-old lovin' feeling.

"Speaking as a man, I'm monogamous, but monogamy certainly doesn't come naturally. We have to work hard to be monogamous," says Barash.

It wouldn't hurt if those carping about male infidelity gave monogamous men a little extra credit, says Wright. "It's harder than they might appreciate," says Wright, who calls himself "pretty morally conservative."

"It's easy for men like me to sit around and demand more self-restraint on the part of the president," he says. "But we're not the ones with nubile young things fawning on us."

Clinton, says Wright, was given a copy of "The Moral Animal," in which Wright notes that humans are naturally polygynous. Suppose the president read it and thought: "Who am I to buck thousands of years of evolution?" Even with Americans scoring fairly low on the scientific literacy scale, "My genes made me do it" has the ring of inevitability.

Wright says he's aware some people read his book that way. Interviewing Wright for Playboy, David Sheff quipped, "You've just given some men the excuse they've been looking for."

But Wright argues that genes determine feelings - not behavior.

Behavior is determined by a matrix of forces, including social and cultural influences. "Morality is a complex subject," he says. "It's not like science."

Evidence that cheating has a genetic basis, says Wright, should make us realize how ingrained it is - and how hard it will be to eradicate.

"The point is: If you want to rein in male philandering, understanding its genetic basis makes you realize that the sanctions are going to have to be stiff, either moral or legal," he says. "It's precisely because it's in our genes that the sanctions should be so stiff, because that's what it takes to fight it."

Carol M. Ostrom's phone-message number is 206-464-2249. Her e-mail address is: [email protected]










Copyright © 1998 The Seattle Times Company
 
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