Message Boards Vs. Structured Forums: How far have we come?

[TMF Jeff]

I was talking recently about how I first encountered tickling online and it got me thinking about the old AMT days compared to today.

Thanks to the civilization of the Internet, and growth within all the different communities, we have managed to rise up from the mess and constant spamming of message board systems and onto more stable moderated Forums.

But it made me ask myself: other than the fact that they pioneered the idea of online communities, to some extent, was there really anything positive about them?

If you could, would you trade the spam and potential harassment for the freedom of speech that went with it?

 

[milagros317]

I prefer moderated forums. I can well remember when the usenet groups alt.sex.* (where * was tickling, bondage, or some other interest) became 99% spam and utterly worthless.

 

[drew70]

Jeff, you knew I'd jump right into this, didn't you? 😀

alt.multimedia.tk was sort of a novelty among the newsgroups in that its founder, Bob Hare spent a lot of time and effort keeping it clean of spam. For example, he deliberately omitted classifications like "binaries," "fetish," "sex," etc., as those were predominantly what spambots search out and infest.

But maintaining that Spam free environment was way more difficult on Usenet than it is on a VBulletin forum such as this one. Here, you can just delete. With Usenet, you had to involve the ISP's of the offending spammers.

As for moderated forums, like everything else, there is a tradeoff. On the upside, you keep away the spam and the "fuck you, asshole!" posts which almost nobody wants to see. Also you have a much brigher admosphere since nobody's permitted to insult

The downside would be that people can't really vent the way they sometimes need to. For example, and this is strictly hypothetical - if somebody on a forum has elected herself the center of that forum's universe, nobody's permitted to call her out on it. Nobody's permitted to bring this fact out to light pubically, laugh at her, or bring her back down to earth. The only options are to either join in with those sucking up to her, or simply ignore the entire clique.

I personally feel that there should at least be one area on every finternet orum where people can cut loose with how they really feel about those for whom they have no respect. Not an official recommendation or anything. Just being wistful.
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[BrightEyes1082]

I like having the moderated forums. While there are definitely times I'd
like to just blow up at someone, it never does much good (although I
admit I've done it!). Just like in real life, we can't always say what we
feel, and we can't always take our anger out on other people. It just
isn't tolerated in real life, so why should it have to be tolerated on the
internet? Be who you really are, don't hide behind a computer and be a
complete jerk, and then be super nice in person. Having a forum where
everyone could just be jerks to each other just for the sake of saying
what they want, when they want, to whom they want, just wouldn't
be pleasant at all. I rarely posted on AMT back then because everything
was always flamed. I like that I have the freedom to post my opinion
here, and know that people who deliberately flame will be dealt with.

 

[venray]

The usenet groups served a good purpose at the time. A place to talk about and share materials about our kink.

They had their problems (IE Spammers, flamers, General assholes) but gave us a place that was a step up from snail, mail, magazines, emails and the like which was how many of us first kept in touch...

The forums as they are now have opened up the way in which we can discuss and share our interests to a higher degree than any of us felt ever possible. In doing so it has also helped to promote more of a community atmosphere for many and has allowed us to interact with and get to know many, many folks involved with similar things in common.

The forums have opened up the path towards real life interaction and the development of real friendships. Gatherings, munches, and one on one or small group meetings are far more common now and it is greatly due to the interactions that we have here on the forum.

The usenet groups were still clouded with an anonymity that didnt allow for too many real time friendships to be fostered. Here, those that wish to have that privacy can certainly still maintain it, while those that wish to go the next step can do so slowly and cautiously or by leaps and bounds..

Personally I would never trade this for the old days and cant wait to see what the next few years will bring...🙂

 

[Snail Shell]

I MODZ

Snail Shell

 

[KrazieDog]

I pretty much agree with most here. The old system, while it served it's purpose at the time, was more of a precursor to the internet's wild west of today. Bitching and whining behind a screen with no consequence, taking veiled or open pot shots at people because at the end of the day you know they are not next door and would be waiting for you in the morning with an old fashioned ass whipping.

The ability for people to actually communicate with each other without having to swim across oceans of spam is definitely a huge plus. The dedication of the moderation is really appreciated by the majority as it helps keep the place as great as it is. Sure you have your douche bags like in any society. They will walk on eggshells as long as they can awaiting the permaban, but they are temporary....unless they use multiple accounts which is just so pathetically sad, it's funny and almost worth keeping around for the pure enjoyment. Also, it has become a huge library or museum in that old topics, media, correspondence can be searched and enjoyed again vs it being there one minute and then gone the next, until the next time someone decided to bring it back. That is just cool as shit.

The fact it keeps getting bigger and better is awesome to watch unfold day by day. We can continue to invest in what is here and be excited by the new stuff and ways it allows up to come together all the time.

 

[Capnmad]

I'm for freedom of speech and an equal flow of information that is relevant to the purpose of the forum provided, and for a degree of responsible moderation. The bases of my moderation would be simple. I would:

Remove spam because it isn't relevant and obstructs more than promotes the purpose.

Condemn and remove slander and libel as it is unlawful.

Take action against harrassment in all forms no matter if it is done overtly, slyly ("coded"), or covertly, and no matter by whom it is done.

Effect repercussions against unlawful and repeat offenders, lest I be found enabling these offenses.

Keep the rest.

Simple.

 

[TMF Jeff]

The downside would be that people can't really vent the way they sometimes need to. For example, and this is strictly hypothetical - if somebody on a forum has elected herself the center of that forum's universe, nobody's permitted to call her out on it. Nobody's permitted to bring this fact out to light pubically, laugh at her, or bring her back down to earth. The only options are to either join in with those sucking up to her, or simply ignore the entire clique.

I can't believe this needs explaining, but clearly it does.

First of all, cute, friendly girls get attention. I'm not just talking about the hypothetical one that you've chosen to fixate on in a really immature and disturbing way. I'm talking about all of the ones here who get special treatment, extra praise, and are more popular. If you really can't handle that, I don't know how you've made it this far in life.

Secondly, Myriads pointed out recently that ten years ago, every guy here would have sold their soul to have cute young girls actively participating at the level they are now. You're pretty much all alone on your island of resenting that.

And this idea that there's some clique that gets special treatment is bullshit and insulting. We run the TMF with a really remarkable degree of fairness. You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could.

The bottom line is that what we do is, we keep bullies from picking on people, and since you're a bully, you resent that.

 

[Sandrock74]

The downside would be that people can't really vent the way they sometimes need to. For example, and this is strictly hypothetical - if somebody on a forum has elected herself the center of that forum's universe, nobody's permitted to call her out on it. Nobody's permitted to bring this fact out to light pubically, laugh at her, or bring her back down to earth. The only options are to either join in with those sucking up to her, or simply ignore the entire clique.

I find myself in agreement with Drew. Very well put sir.

 

[KrazieDog]

I can't believe this needs explaining, but clearly it does.

First of all, cute, friendly girls get attention. I'm not just talking about the hypothetical one that you've chosen to fixate on in a really immature and disturbing way. I'm talking about all of the ones here who get special treatment, extra praise, and are more popular. If you really can't handle that, I don't know how you've made it this far in life.

Secondly, Myriads pointed out recently that ten years ago, every guy here would have sold their soul to have cute young girls actively participating at the level they are now. You're pretty much all alone on your island of resenting that.

And this idea that there's some clique that gets special treatment is bullshit and insulting. We run the TMF with a really remarkable degree of fairness. You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could.

The bottom line is that what we do is, we keep bullies from picking on people, and since you're a bully, you resent that.

I'm buying you a beer whether you like it or not.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I find myself in agreement with Drew. Very well put sir.

I would love to see evidence that anyone here is required to kiss anyone else's ass.

The only thing we require is that people not be assholes, and not single others out for mistreatment. Some people can't handle being told not to do that, and they think it means the person they want to harass is getting special treatment.

Try singling someone else out for that kind of treatment and see what you get, you'll quickly discover how even-handed we are about that.

 

[drew70]

I can't believe this needs explaining, but clearly it does.

First of all, cute, friendly girls get attention. I'm not just talking about the hypothetical one that you've chosen to fixate on in a really immature and disturbing way. I'm talking about all of the ones here who get special treatment, extra praise, and are more popular. If you really can't handle that, I don't know how you've made it this far in life.

Secondly, Myriads pointed out recently that ten years ago, every guy here would have sold their soul to have cute young girls actively participating at the level they are now. You're pretty much all alone on your island of resenting that.

And this idea that there's some clique that gets special treatment is bullshit and insulting. We run the TMF with a really remarkable degree of fairness. You won't find a more even-handed forum on the Internet. For example, I don't like you, and I wish you would go away. But I don't throw you out, even though I could.

The bottom line is that what we do is, we keep bullies from picking on people, and since you're a bully, you resent that.

LOL. Okay, Jeff. You want to hurl threats, and insults at me, have at it, pal. Hell, by this time I'm pretty much used to being your punching bag, anyway. And by doing so, you prove my point better than anything I can say.
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[TMF Jeff]

LOL. Okay, Jeff. You want to hurl names, threats, and insults at me, have at it, pal. Hell, by this time I'm pretty much used to being your punching bag, anyway. And by doing so, you prove my point better than anything I can say.

When you stop treating other people like yours, I'll start caring whether you feel like mine.

 

[RobAce]

What saddens me is that Jeff creates a thread to discuss a topic, and then you Drew, bring up a hypothetical person which you yourself do not like being the "center of attention", thus making them the "center of attention."

I don't get that.

This thread was created to discuss if we prefer the way things are now, or do we want to go back to the old days of AMT and ASFT.

Myself I can do without the spam, the threats, the divulging of personal information just to "get back at that person" and the flame wars that went with all of that. I was a part of that time, and I dreaded it. It was hardly worth my day to scan through the rubbish just to get the 1 or 2 good stories inbetween the fighting and BS.

To take this thread and use it as a obvious attack against someone is something I can not understand or stand behind. If you really looked around you would realize that there is more to the TMF than that hypothetical person.

And no, there is not just an option to agree with the "clique" or ignore the person. You could treat everyone as you wish be treated and find that these forums are more enjoyable when you get in on the fun, rather than stand back and point out everyone's flaws for enjoying the fun.

Drew, you and I are friends...but honestly these thinly veiled attacks are getting old, and here is one issue that you and I will have to go separate ways on. I understand that even I in the past was upset about some things, but I have moved past since then and realize that I can not assume everything, and blame issues on people or things that I may not have the whole story on.

Rob

 

[Cy/MiG]

O <--- 'The Loop'
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😕



Well, I thought it was funny.😀

 

[Cy/MiG]

Okay, as for a REAL response, barely remembering the 'older forums' (if at all) I say what we have is good and works.

And it's always good to have some blokes doing the hard work of keeping this place a 'clean fetish forum' and 'regulating the chaos and mayhem' (If you know what I mean... I think I know what I mean anyways...)

The current system is great and works and there is a clear sense of 'community' (or unity on some level) here, at least from what I can see.

 

[Capnmad]

And no, there is not just an option to agree with the "clique" or ignore the person. You could treat everyone as you wish be treated and find that these forums are more enjoyable when you get in on the fun, rather than stand back and point out everyone's flaws for enjoying the fun.

High-five!

 

[heyoka]

I MUCH prefer the way things are now. No matter how much I wanted to see some of the material available there, I never joined the usenet groups...or any groups until Drew (my Drew, not 70) and I decided to join the TMF. This was largely because of the so-called freedom they provided. Freedom to be an asshole is basicly what it was. While I agree that Bob's group was better maintained than others, I didn't last long looking at them because I got so disgusted with people. Do we have that here at all? Occassionally, as is exhibitted above. But, it's kept in check here, no matter who the person is...though I'd personally prefer even less leniancy at times.

Aside from the behavioral aspects, I also much prefer the way this forum is set up. If you want something of a particular type, you just look for the appropriate section in which to find it. Much better than sifting through thousands of posts.

All in all, I'll take the forums. I also agree with Ray. I can't wait to see where things go from here!

 

[heyoka]

LOL. Okay, Jeff. You want to hurl threats, and insults at me, have at it, pal. Hell, by this time I'm pretty much used to being your punching bag, anyway. And by doing so, you prove my point better than anything I can say.

Drew, it really saddens me how you can be so blind as to complain about this when you yourself seem to relish using anyone you don't particularly like/agree with as your own punching bag.

With nearly 80,000 members here, of course there will be some with whom we don't get along. There are for me as well. But, why insist on the continued pissing contests to point them out? If you want them to get less attention, you might want to consider starting by giving them less attention. Wouldn't that make more sense?

This is the kind of crap I hated about the usenet groups and why I refused to join. I'm not so naive as to think everyone loves everyone here. They don't. But, at least we try to have a civil coexistence and not spew venom all over the place. Give it a rest!

 

[dvnc]

I see it in empirical terms.

AMT is still there.

Was there and active in our first years running here.

AMT is deader than an infomercial now.

We florish and others did similar, here and abroad. We have communties here. Plural. Not everyone likes me, and since this ain't the wild west anymore, that's expected. Too big for anyone to be the center of attention. There are many points of attention.

I'm amused with the concept that any one person could be perceived as getting center stage. I'm even MORE amused thinkin' 'bout where Jeff mentioned our largely male-dominant interactions. I heard from many women from my events and those I knew from AMT, but most didn't post in the first years. Now there's a lot of ya!

Still too few women posting, IMO, but it's come SO far.

Progress is change, though. I like the change, even if I'm part of the janitorial crew, cleaning the crud that others carelessly leave behind.

Too many of you are friends where I didn't know you when I was first running my events. Too many good people I'd not have met had you not posted here, or saw me posting here and came to an event and met me. The shear volume of change and improvement, for me, is excellent.

 

[BellaRisa]

I discovered AMT in 1998. Back then, I was constantly being asked if other young women like myself, in our 20's and 30's with this kink, really existed. It was that bad. And I truly believe that there were plenty of us, but AMT and other newsboards like it were so unfriendly and flame-ridden that the vast majority of females just stayed the heck away. Heck, I'm as outspoken as they come and even I got sick of it and fled. It was a cesspool for women, I don't care what anyone says.

Now, thanks to the moderation and flame-free policies here, we feel comfortable. We say what we feel and express our kink and our sexuality with (nearly 🙄) no fear of idiots being needlessly hostile. And lo and behold, we have beautiful and articulate young women posting, joining us at NEST and other gatherings, and being themselves. Posting as much as they want, questioning the status quo and getting answers, and receiving the 'proper' attention that attractive young ladies should have. As a veteran who remembers feeling like one of the only ticklephile chicks around, I say hallelujah and FINALLY

 

[-Hari-]

I like the way things are on a moderated forum, I picture the TMF as a town beneath a fragile dam, moderation provides policing where needed and maintains the dam, stopping the water flooding the place and causeing havok , spam and abusive or aggressive behavior etc represent small cracks in the damn, as well as huge holes which require more attention. Moderators patch up that dam,

To allow the town to continue to grow and develop, it needs to be kept safe. or else no one would want be there as they would not want to drown in the bullcrap.

You can do things the old fashioned way but its too messy and doesnt stand the test of time as far as building a community.

To follow that mentality, a community takes all sorts, nice people, nasty people, misunderstood people and all thats inbetween. The people that arnt as nice as some others wont be AS liked, tis simple. And as with any community, young ladies get the alot of attention, more than anyone of the thousands os single guys.

Its a hard balance to get right, but ya cant make EVERYone happy.

Tis my rather odd view on this.. 😛

 

[Adam]

A big thumbs up to moderated forums. I remember the old days well. Those old newsgroups was my first real exposure to any sort of "community", spam-laden as it may have been. While it got me started, it's not exactly something I miss.

 

[Sandrock74]

O <--- 'The Loop'
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You and me both pal!

I do prefer the TMF to the old school newsgroups which just seemed so....chaotic. Too much spam and lots of threats which I could never figure out. Maybe I was too out of the loop?

I think the Mods here do a wonderful job of keeping the place spam free and I, for one, am grateful for that. I think some Mods can be a bit heavy handed at times, but that's just my opinion.

But hey, we are dealing with like 80,000 members and their egos/opinions here...differing opinons will occur. Its how we handle it thats important, which is what robace was saying (he always sounds so smart).