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Musical Question

Biggles of 266

1st Level Red Feather
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Messages
1,126
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I know Dave and Pete are both big musicians, and doubtless many more on here who I don't know of, so I've got a question for you.

When you're mixing and finishing up your album of, say, 10 songs, how do you decide which tracks go where?




Is there a set formula that the opening 2 tracks are a windup, track number 5 is always the killer single on the album, and the last 3 aren't worth listening to?

Is it entirely up to the band to decide which songs follow each other, purely based on how they sound?

Do the singles always have a 'filler' song on either side of them to make the singles sound better?



This is just something I've been wondering about for a while, since I noticed that track 5 on most of my cds seems to be my favourite one on there.

Biggles
 
First Of All, Congratulations!

First of all, congratulations on your forthcoming release, Biggles! The fact that you are committed to a release, in itself, is a bigger step than MANY gifted musicians are willing/able to take, IMHO.

As for song order, I would probably open with a suggestion to try to follow any live performance set list that you have noticed has been particularly successful (if you have, in fact, had experience performing these songs live). If you have not played these songs live yet, perhaps it is time to develop a set list and give it a whirl...even in front of the smallest of audiences, if necessary. There really IS NOT any set formula to look for here, just best bets. Songs whose root key are the same or part of a "natural harmony" tend to go well together and perhaps some thought can be given to that.

Next...tempo can be a HUGE consideration. Not much sense in putting ALL your "up tempo" songs back-to-back and either "sandwiching together in the middle" beginning or ending with ALL of your slow tempo tunes. Some thought should probably be given to mixing the tempo up a bit. This helps maintain the listeners' attention span more effectively too. Especially true for first time listeners who don't know what kind of experience to expect from your repertoire.

VERY IMPORTANT: If you have a song that could be considered a "title cut" to your compilation, if you put the title cut first, it tends to project more confidence and credence to the compilation's "central theme," where a central theme or principal topic/inspiration applies.

As for being up to the band on these decisions? Well, unless someone else outside of the band is financing all this and their sensibilities would be injured to the point of losing future financial assistance from them, I would vote a resounding "YES! LET THE BAND DECIDE!" I want to reiterate, though, that the band should try to base it's arrangement decisions on feedback from your audience(s), to date, as much as possible. Got to put the sentiments of your faithful followers first as much as possible...because they are the folks who have demonstrated first loyalty and appreciation to you...and...if you want them to pay cover charge, buy T-Shirts and other memorabilia with band logo, buy the current and future recorded musical works and sing your praises to others...it is pretty important to let them have the feeling that you put their sentiments first. Remember the old saying, "A thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong?" 🙂

As for singles? Well, as you may know, the reason the "filler song" approach emerged was because if there were other songs that were exceptionally dynamic on that compilation, it would be kind of self-defeating to shoot them out 2 at a time on the compilation, lest ye render yourself a "one-hit-wonder." In my opinion and experience, it is generally best to whet your audiences' appetite, but find a way to leave them "wanting more" at the end of the show/listening experience. Otherwise, the listening experience tends to become somewhat anti-climactic. On the other hand, I would not recommend you "sandbag" the musical work that earns the best "live audience response" from your first single either. The strategy, when applied successfully, is open with your power, and work your way to less power on the CD/record. The reason for this is primarily one of maintaining your listeners' attention span. Remember, you don't get a second chance at a first impression. ;-)

I hope you find this helpful, Biggles, and I am sure that Dave2112, DVNC, MastrTklr, TummyDragon, bass, OneFunkyBassist, and others comrades in music and tickling too numerous to remember or mention in one post can offer some valuable input on the topic, as well.

Please let me know where I can hear samples/buy a copy when the work is finished! I'd love to hear it!😀
 
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Now if you ask Steve Vai, he always puts a slow ballad on track 7. But he's just weird that way.

The last band I worked with in the studio, they pretty much put the songs in random order. These were completely new songs, and they hadn't performed them live yet (hell, most of them, they were still writting as they recorded them).

Another band I worked with did just as Pete said, they put them on the disc in the order of thier first set.

Also, if it is a major lable release, a lot of people have a say as to what order the songs are placed: the producer, the mixing engineer, the mastering engineer, the A&R person for the lable, ect.
 
I've noticed that many artists put there hit on as number three. But in all seriousness in every album that I have recorded, I made sure that I put songs spread out by type. For instance do not put two really slow (or power) ballads together. If you can vary between tracks so that it is obvious when one track ends and the next begins. (Unless it is all instrumental or heavy metal, then you can mush them together.)Start strong, and get stronger; I really disagree with putting the song you are pushing first!
 
Yeah, congrats on commitin' and completin' it, Biggles!

Biggles of 266 said:
When you're mixing and finishing up your album of, say, 10 songs, how do you decide which tracks go where?
Pete covered it well. It's up to who's payin', first and foremost, 'cause you can't have an unpaid recording for long. Beyond that, it's up to the band, unless otherwise decided. Been wit' groups that had a "whomever wrote it" mentality, though.

[QUOTE]Is there a set formula that the opening 2 tracks are a windup, track number 5 is always the killer single on the album, and the last 3 aren't worth listening to?

Is it entirely up to the band to decide which songs follow each other, purely based on how they sound?
[/QUOTE]
Formula's are legion, here. I still agree wit' Pete, in that whatever you generally play, live, is gonna help delineate what order the album should take, within the decision-makin' power of the money behind the recording.

Do the singles always have a 'filler' song on either side of them to make the singles sound better?
I've heard mostly one main answer, when speakin' to folks who decide such, at labels big and small. Beyond what the band requests, the labels focus on puttin' somethin' that ain't expected to be a "hit" there so they can sell the hits one at a time. That's also why you get those "rarity" tracks on singles, 'cause it impels collectors to buy each, when they already HAVE the album.

Very cool that you're gonna have an album soon, Biggles!
 
I wonder how Beethoven decided on the order for his eight trak release 😀
 
oh dear... sorry to be confusing guys...

I'm not a musician. The only thing I play are CDs in my car :blush:

When I read the replies and read my own post again, it does kinda look like I'm putting an album out... I really wish I was, coz music is so much fun and it'd be a much more stable career than journalism! But no, words are what I work and play with, not notes.

Thanks for the info but guys, I've been curious about this for a while now.

Biggles
 
Biggles of 266 said:
oh dear... sorry to be confusing guys...

I'm not a musician. The only thing I play are CDs in my car :blush:

When I read the replies and read my own post again, it does kinda look like I'm putting an album out... I really wish I was, coz music is so much fun and it'd be a much more stable career than journalism! But no, words are what I work and play with, not notes.
Biggles

Music is a more stable career than journalism? Maybe you should put out an album of essays that elaborate on that point. The only thing in music that I found stable was teaching. And even that was unstable during the 1980's when many music teachers were getting pink slipped by school districts cutting everything they thought was fluff. I know about that because I was one of the pink slipped fluffs.
 
I just have to ask...

What kind of job is stable?

I mean even if you have job security, what is to say that the job holder is secure???

Just my little tit-bit of philosophy!!!
 
Biggles of 266 said:
When I read the replies and read my own post again, it does kinda look like I'm putting an album out... I really wish I was, coz music is so much fun and it'd be a much more stable career than journalism! But no, words are what I work and play with, not notes.

Huh? Biggles, trust me when I say that is music WAY less stable than writing. All my musically-oriented colleagues ended up gigging in computer gigs, waitin' tables, etc. Only a handful ever made an album or more, and most of them had a second job to get by, less than two years later. Writers do a bit better than that, 'cause a fiction writer CAN do technical writing, where a musician of ANY kind can't find much beyond teaching musical instruments as a profession. Teachin' piano ain't so viable, y'know?

I ended up bringin' a lot of us into the computer biz, as test engineer temps. Paid well, and many gigged on the side, as we had flexible hours. Some even went back to a signed label. One's still doin' so.

These days, though, I know writers outta work too. Musicians are just used to havin' a second gig, and a third, and a fourth...
 
The only job I've ever had with security is being a mom. I got that job gladly and I'll have that job until the end of my days and far beyond that.
 
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