news i heard on the radio yesterday

[Deleted member 2452]

this isn't really german bashing, but it'll seem that way.
there was a news story, i heard 3 times, yesterday. a ship delivered nerve gas components from germany to north korea. the german government admitted the report is true. in one report it was suggested that this is why germany (and france) are against war with iraq, cause they will be discovered to have been secretly supplying iraq. this is very unsettling news. how two faced can they get?
steve

 

[Shem the Penman]

Why would they be alarmed at that? All they'd have to do would be point to the fact that the U.S. supplied Iraq with biological weapon stocks when Saddam was our good buddy against Iran. There's plenty of that mud to go around.

 

[Stephen]

Fox News strikes again

And where did you hear this story, on Fox News? Rush Limpballs? And did this shipment come from the German government, or a private firm or black marketees? More details, please. This reminds me of when Margaret Thatcher told the world the IRA was buying weapons from the PLO. Shocking! The IRA, as an outlawed organization, had to buy its weapons from whoever was selling. If it was the PLO, so what? Yes it is a bad scene that North Korea is getting nerve gas components. But tell me if this was an official German government sale or some loose cannon who just happened to be German. Now, the real reason Germany is opposed to Shrub's vainglorious attempt to get himself elected ligitimately in 2004 is that the Germans know the horrors of war better than we in the USA know them, and because Germany is far closer to the Arab/Muslim world than the USA is. This war will increase terrorist activity, not diminish it. A war like this is going to be used as a recruiting tool for Osama bin Laden, who, even though opposes secular governments like Iraq in predominantly Muslim nations, has a way with the gullible and fanatical. Face it, you who support this war, Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are much better politicians than Shrub (not that that's difficult). They will emerge on top in the aftermath of this war. Count on it.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

nope, not fox, nor rush

it was on wsl radio here in chicago.
the report said a government, to government sale.
just what we need, more sarin gas in the hands of whack jobs.
steve

 

[Haltickling]

There is still not nearly enough information to find out what happened. A few important questions:

Is this a recent discovery, or when did it happen? If it is news, I wonder why none of the German media reported about it, despite a lot of good investigative journalists who would just LOVE to ostracize our government. They are very keen on such scandals, and I wonder how a local Chicago radio station could beat them.

Which kind of chemicals were they talking about? Phosphates, for example, can be used for producing agricultural fertilizers as well as for Phosgen, a highly toxic nerve gas (depending on your equipment). You can even produce the necessary phosphates from ready-made fertilizers. Same with Nitrates, which can be used for producing bombs. Almost anything can be used as a weapon, you know, even medicaments.

On one point, the information is definitely incorrect: Our government doesn't sell anything. At the most, it gives approval to some industrial sales, and it takes great care not to deliver anything dangerous into foreign hands. If that happens, you can be sure that a big public scandal arises. The free press here is just as unrestricted as the American counterpart. Our complete industry and trade is strictly private and not state-controlled.

Just a few comments...

 

[Moses25]

Re: nope, not fox, nor rush

just what we need, more sarin gas in the hands of whack jobs.
steve

I need a whack of hand jobs.

*stirring*

Cheers.😀

 

[Stephen]

some might say...

United States weapons of mass destruction are in the hands of a whack job.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

more info.

the first sourse was a news feed from the parent a.b.c. news head quaters. then a local story about it, then again from the abc feed.
the story said it was a sale of cyanide, which is used in making sarin gas. the story said the sale was by the german government, that they got it from industrial sources, and shipped it on the same ship that carried the scud missles from north korea, to ethiopia back in december. the cyanide was off loaded in north korea a couple days ago, like monday, or over the weekend.
that's all i know for now.
stephan, i'll trust our government over north korea, or iraq any day. for one thing our military men are trained to have morals, not to ignore them.
steve

 

[Stephen]

try spelling my name right

stephan, i'll trust our government over north korea, or iraq any day. for one thing our military men are trained to have morals, not to ignore them.

I don't trust any of them. Maybe our military men are trained to have morals (are you saying our military women are not trained to have morals? where do I sign up?), but our politicians are trained NOT to have morals. And Shrub and Richard "I'm a Dick" Cheney have never served in the military. Don't play that favorite conservative game of trying to tell me I oppose those who serve our country in the military. It's the politicians who send them off to be killed for self-serving and cynical reasons I oppose.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

sorry about the name...

... it was an honest mistake.
i don't count the women in the military, their fingers are not on the buttons, or triggers. yes women serve, and 2 of my daughter are planning on joining, one wants to be allowed to fight even!
but for the purpoese of the discussion, it is men who do the fighting, and who would or would refuse to use w.m.d.'s. i can tell you from personal experience, that nco's, and officers are trained to use moral judgement, and to refuse an order they concider illegal, or immoral. i don't believe i accused you of not supporting our troops. but i don't think you "truely" support them. now that's not a flame, just an observation, and an opion. when the chips are down, and it's trigger pulling time, who will you support? our troops, or the iraqis?
protest is as american as apple pie, and questioning our leaders is part of the constitution. but you are way too insulting in your mannor, try doing it w/o the hyperbole.
steve
p.s. i hate career politicians

 

[Haltickling]

Re: more info.

the first sourse was a news feed from the parent a.b.c. news head quaters. then a local story about it, then again from the abc feed.
the story said it was a sale of cyanide, which is used in making sarin gas. the story said the sale was by the german government, that they got it from industrial sources, and shipped it on the same ship that carried the scud missles from north korea, to ethiopia back in december. the cyanide was off loaded in north korea a couple days ago, like monday, or over the weekend.
that's all i know for now.

Thanks for the additional info. I've searched the web for the original story (ABC, CNN, International Herald Tribune, Washington Post, and several German news agencies), and I couldn't find anything on it. However I admit that I'm not very good at working with search machines; maybe somebody can help me there?

Anyway, I contacted the political editorials at the two largest German TV stations to find out more. If and when they reply, I'll report on that here. If there's no completely harmless explanation for that, the stuff will hit the fan in the German media.

 

[Haltickling]

Oh, I forgot: Does WSL Radio have a website? I can't find any. Maybe you can call them to find out their e-mail addy? Thanks!

 

[Stephen]

what's an opion?

When the chips are down, and it's trigger-pulling time, who will I support? The anti-war activists, of course. Please tell me your definition of "truely" (sic) supporting our troops.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

Oh, I forgot: Does WSL Radio have a website? I can't find any. Maybe you can call them to find out their e-mail addy? Thanks!

i'm going to call the radio station and ask them for a copy of the story, or a link to a site, ect. i'm disturbed by not seeing any follow up in the local news papers. this is important.
steve

 

[Oddjob0226]

Actually, to toss a wrench into everyone's arguments, pro and con, cyanide has industrial uses & is good for more than just gassin' people. Lots of chemicals can be used for that.

 

[Haltickling]

That seems to be the explanation, Oddjob, why no other news station has made a follow-up on this story.

I received messages from both German TV stations I contacted that they weren't able to verify this story. So, unless WSL has got special insider knowledge, it seems that they have misinterpreted a perfectly harmless business transaction. But of course this fits wonderfully into the propaganda against so-called "non-aligned countries".

 

[Stephen]

more insulting mannor (sic)

areenactor, were the military personnel responsible for the My Lai massacre trained to use moral judgment? How about the ones at Sand Creek or Wounded Knee?

 

[Stephen]

I'm waiting

areenactor, I still haven't heard what your definition of "truly supporting U.S. troops" is. I think I support them more than you do, because I support their right not to have to die so that Shrub can win the election in 2004. I don't think Iraqi civiliians, and our own security from terrorist attacks, should be sacrificed on the altar of the Bush family's political career, either.

Glad to know you hate career politicians. I do to, as well as career doctors, career lawyers, career teachers, career carpenters, career plumbers, career electricians, career cooks, career law enforcement officers, career automobile mechanics, career entertainers, career journalists and, especially, career nurses.