TummyDragon
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Has France surrendered??
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Only a few hours left before the war starts..
- Thread starter TummyDragon
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Limeoutsider
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I've heard that the Iraq soliders have been trying to surrender! (I think it was Iraq, might have been a different country)
Limeoutsider...
is correct. Iraqis heard a test bomb being dropped and ran over to surrender. We of course had to inform them that we couldn't accept their surrender until formal hostilities commenced.
I guess I need to step up for France here, since no one else wishes to acknowledge their military contributions. They haven't had a lot of success in the last century or 2, but they rarely actually get very interested in war as a rule. They had their empire and days of glory, and have moved beyond those times to become an "average" citizen of the world. We need to try to remember that we're dealing with a government, which acts as a representative of the nation....at this point in time. Just as all Americans don't agree with president Bush, I feel confident that not all Frenchmen agree with the course Chirac has set for his nation. Regardless, they have that right to disagree. We were firm allies for long periods of time, during some of the most intense periods of our short history, including waaaay back near the beginning. Look at the Statue Of Liberty, and compare it to any gifts another nation has given the US.....still pretty cool even after all this time, eh?
Here's hoping they reverse course and join us in ridding the world of inexcusable evil and those who perpetuate it.
Q
is correct. Iraqis heard a test bomb being dropped and ran over to surrender. We of course had to inform them that we couldn't accept their surrender until formal hostilities commenced.
I guess I need to step up for France here, since no one else wishes to acknowledge their military contributions. They haven't had a lot of success in the last century or 2, but they rarely actually get very interested in war as a rule. They had their empire and days of glory, and have moved beyond those times to become an "average" citizen of the world. We need to try to remember that we're dealing with a government, which acts as a representative of the nation....at this point in time. Just as all Americans don't agree with president Bush, I feel confident that not all Frenchmen agree with the course Chirac has set for his nation. Regardless, they have that right to disagree. We were firm allies for long periods of time, during some of the most intense periods of our short history, including waaaay back near the beginning. Look at the Statue Of Liberty, and compare it to any gifts another nation has given the US.....still pretty cool even after all this time, eh?
Here's hoping they reverse course and join us in ridding the world of inexcusable evil and those who perpetuate it.
Qasutickler
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God willing, Iraq's regular army will surrender without a shot fired. The vast majority of them are nothing but young men who were conscripted into the Iraqi military on pain of death- for both themselves AND their families.
Certainly, a small portion of the Iraqi regulars are loyal to Saddam Hussein, and have committed various atrocities in his name... but these folks are likely to be slain by their comrades prior to any mass surrender, since they'd likely shoot the surrendering parties in the back, if given the chance.
The Republican Guard (especially the "Special" Republican Guard) is another matter entirely... On the odd chance that any of them survive the conflict (as soon as it is apparent that Baghdad is being overrun, the local citizenry is likely to dispense "mob justice" upon anyone in a Republican Guard uniform- not that I blame them in the least) they need to be rounded up for trial at a later date... and the same goes for the staff and guards of Iraq's prisons.
Certainly, a small portion of the Iraqi regulars are loyal to Saddam Hussein, and have committed various atrocities in his name... but these folks are likely to be slain by their comrades prior to any mass surrender, since they'd likely shoot the surrendering parties in the back, if given the chance.
The Republican Guard (especially the "Special" Republican Guard) is another matter entirely... On the odd chance that any of them survive the conflict (as soon as it is apparent that Baghdad is being overrun, the local citizenry is likely to dispense "mob justice" upon anyone in a Republican Guard uniform- not that I blame them in the least) they need to be rounded up for trial at a later date... and the same goes for the staff and guards of Iraq's prisons.
Texas_Tickle
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Iraqis Attempt to surrender
British forces were conducting a live-ammunition exercise near the Kuwait/Iraq border and 48 Iraqi soliders came out, with hands up.
The captian of the British brigade informed the surrendered soldiers that the war had not even started yet.
British forces were conducting a live-ammunition exercise near the Kuwait/Iraq border and 48 Iraqi soliders came out, with hands up.
The captian of the British brigade informed the surrendered soldiers that the war had not even started yet.
TummyDragon
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Re: Limeoutsider...
Agreed. France was a firm ally and we, the Great Satan (satan simply means "enemy" not "devil" although common usage has given it the latter definition), would more than likely still be an English colony if it weren't for the invaluable engagement of their navy during the American Revolution. As to your comments about peoples as opposed to governments. The french people tend to hate us, the american people. Having friends who live there, friends with relatives who live there, etc etc, I've had opportunity to speak with those with first hand knowledge. It's a hatred for americans, not just our government. I've spoken with several of my friends who quesitoned individual french people as to why there exists such a disdain for us and the responses were interesting.
The older generation seems to remember our American G.I.'s raping their women and stealing from them after WWII. They tell these stories repeatedly. I have *no* idea whether these comments are actually true. I've done a minimal research but can find nothing to support the claim as of yet. My dad served in WWII but was in the pacific and didn't seem to know any more than I did except to say something like, "a lot of nasty things happened during those times that most people don't know about." I suppose it could have happened, but I'd like to see some evidence.
The younger generation views us as a stuck-up, conceited, think we are better than everyone else people. And from their viewpoint I can see why a case could be made for such an argument. They make comments such as "every french school child learns to speak english, but how many of you can speak French?" Owners of many shops and hotels there refuse to speak english to americans even though they can.
My personal theory as to why they hate us is that american governmental policies (many of which I deplore) have been driven
down the throats of people around the world. It's hard *not* to associate the hated policies with the american people too (afterall, we are government by the people for the people, right? yeah, right...dripping sarcasm). The Proud French have gone from a World Power to a country of little to no consequence in the grand scheme of US World Influence. We also need to remember that we are "sister republics", rising into freedom and "government by the people" at approximately the same time. We went on to dominate the world, they fell by the wayside in the worldly picture. That's got to be hard for the French to swallow. It's like two siblings, one becomes an extreme success and everyone brings his name up continually, while the other still lives at home, hasn't become anything worthy of notice but must listen to family and friends dote over the accomplishments of the other sibling. Lots of pent up anger and frustration to be had there.
Anyway, just another "my three cents" post worth about a penny...
TD
qjakal said:I guess I need to step up for France here, since no one else wishes to acknowledge their military contributions...
Here's hoping they reverse course and join us in ridding the world of inexcusable evil and those who perpetuate it.
Agreed. France was a firm ally and we, the Great Satan (satan simply means "enemy" not "devil" although common usage has given it the latter definition), would more than likely still be an English colony if it weren't for the invaluable engagement of their navy during the American Revolution. As to your comments about peoples as opposed to governments. The french people tend to hate us, the american people. Having friends who live there, friends with relatives who live there, etc etc, I've had opportunity to speak with those with first hand knowledge. It's a hatred for americans, not just our government. I've spoken with several of my friends who quesitoned individual french people as to why there exists such a disdain for us and the responses were interesting.
The older generation seems to remember our American G.I.'s raping their women and stealing from them after WWII. They tell these stories repeatedly. I have *no* idea whether these comments are actually true. I've done a minimal research but can find nothing to support the claim as of yet. My dad served in WWII but was in the pacific and didn't seem to know any more than I did except to say something like, "a lot of nasty things happened during those times that most people don't know about." I suppose it could have happened, but I'd like to see some evidence.
The younger generation views us as a stuck-up, conceited, think we are better than everyone else people. And from their viewpoint I can see why a case could be made for such an argument. They make comments such as "every french school child learns to speak english, but how many of you can speak French?" Owners of many shops and hotels there refuse to speak english to americans even though they can.
My personal theory as to why they hate us is that american governmental policies (many of which I deplore) have been driven
down the throats of people around the world. It's hard *not* to associate the hated policies with the american people too (afterall, we are government by the people for the people, right? yeah, right...dripping sarcasm). The Proud French have gone from a World Power to a country of little to no consequence in the grand scheme of US World Influence. We also need to remember that we are "sister republics", rising into freedom and "government by the people" at approximately the same time. We went on to dominate the world, they fell by the wayside in the worldly picture. That's got to be hard for the French to swallow. It's like two siblings, one becomes an extreme success and everyone brings his name up continually, while the other still lives at home, hasn't become anything worthy of notice but must listen to family and friends dote over the accomplishments of the other sibling. Lots of pent up anger and frustration to be had there.
Anyway, just another "my three cents" post worth about a penny...
TD
Stitch62679
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Whew, he's got 30 mins, wonder if we'll bomb tonight?
Texas_Tickle
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Stitch62679 said:
I doubt it, since that is what Saddam expects. Bush did not say it will start right away, on the hour. He said it will be "at a time of our choosing".
I will give them, maybe 1 week before anything really happens.
TicklingDuo
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I don't think it will be long, simply because the guys are all getting into position and fully supplied. The weather is starting to clear out as well. I suspect we'll see something VERY soon. I just pray that as few lives are lost as possible.
Ann
Ann
asutickler
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I agree with Ann. Assembling our forces (they're right up on the Kuwait/Iraq border, atm) and then just letting them sit there will only blunt their readyness. Furthermore, it gets warmer with each day they wait, since summer is quickly approaching. Since our forces will be moving and fighting in full chem/bio suits, heat-related fatigue is a major consideration.
Also, each day our forces are left deployed over there is costing us a FORTUNE...
Also, each day our forces are left deployed over there is costing us a FORTUNE...
Marines...
They're ready and waiting. Just letting the flyboys do their job first. I'm in touch with 2 friends who are in the supply/communication corps there, and the prevailing emotion is that "home is on the other side of Baghdad....and we intend to get home."
I'm not a praying man, as many of you who have read the religion threads are aware, but I believe I'll make an exception tonight, and pray both for the safety of our troops and any goddamn thing that tries to stand between them and home.
Time for talk has ended.....may whatever gods exist have mercy on all who fall, and may the decision to "free" Iraq be proven wise in time.
Q
They're ready and waiting. Just letting the flyboys do their job first. I'm in touch with 2 friends who are in the supply/communication corps there, and the prevailing emotion is that "home is on the other side of Baghdad....and we intend to get home."
I'm not a praying man, as many of you who have read the religion threads are aware, but I believe I'll make an exception tonight, and pray both for the safety of our troops and any goddamn thing that tries to stand between them and home.
Time for talk has ended.....may whatever gods exist have mercy on all who fall, and may the decision to "free" Iraq be proven wise in time.
QShiningIce
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Agreed, to all my friends from high school. COME BACK ALIVE
ShiningIce
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*sigh* give it up tron.
TicklingDuo
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Well, the air campaign has begun. 🙁 🙁 It's sad that it's come to this. But, I pray that it will be quick and as free of casualties as possible.
Ann
(PS - guys, let's have one war at a time, huh?)
🙁 It's sad that it's come to this. But, I pray that it will be quick and as free of casualties as possible.Ann
(PS - guys, let's have one war at a time, huh?)
TummyDragon
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Re: Marines...
Well spoken, sir... I'll be saying a prayer for our troops, the British troops, for guidance for those who make the decisions which hold their lives in their hands, and for the people and common soldiers of Iraq that *all* will return to their families and that the new found freedom of the Iraqi people will be a glorious change that will bring a friendship that spans miles of terrain and religious differences.
TD
qjakal said:
I'm not a praying man, as many of you who have read the religion threads are aware, but I believe I'll make an exception tonight, and pray both for the safety of our troops and any goddamn thing that tries to stand between them and home.
Time for talk has ended.....may whatever gods exist have mercy on all who fall, and may the decision to "free" Iraq be proven wise in time.
Well spoken, sir... I'll be saying a prayer for our troops, the British troops, for guidance for those who make the decisions which hold their lives in their hands, and for the people and common soldiers of Iraq that *all* will return to their families and that the new found freedom of the Iraqi people will be a glorious change that will bring a friendship that spans miles of terrain and religious differences.
TD
