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Parallel Universes Exist.

THE THREAD

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According to a recent Scientific American article. Parallel Universes exist. They come in four types:

Level I multiverse: A region of space that is too far for us to observe yet.

Level II multiverse: Our universe is a bubble embedded in a even larger mainly empty region of space. Other bubbles exist, disconnected from ours.

Level III multiverse: There are a vast number of parallel universes that represent an abstract realm of all possible states.

Level IV multiverse: Universes that differ not just in location, cosmological properties or in quantum states but also in terms of the laws of physics.

The Level III multiverse suggests that time might be an illusion. Time is often used to describe change. If multiverses contain all possible arrangements of matter then time is simply a way to put those universe in sequence. The universe themselves are static. Change is an ilusion.
 
I just finished this article, what an amazing thing!
 
There is but one universe...that of which they speak is merely a part of the unknown vs. known universe.....😉
 
i`ve been to that universe..anyone who wants to experience it-here`s the secret....a minimum of twelve buds and two huge spliffs 😀
 
So in a Level II multiverse would anything we could imagine have to exist? It would seem that if all states are represented that it would be impossible to think of something that didn't exist. Any thoughts?
 
The Multiverse does exist! Although the most acurate "lable" I have found to refer to the entire Cosmos and Everything that exists is, The Omniverse. It includes all universes and all dimensions! The Multiverse is connected to memory and free-will - everytime you make a decision - go left when you COULD HAVE gone right...there is another universe that contains exactly what would have happend had you gone right! Think of Life like the most advanced computer game in existance...when you play a pc game...all the moves have been pre-programmed into that game...this is why you can go left, right, jump etc...because it's all been pre-programmed in...it's the exact same thing with Life...all moves have been pre-programmed in...so lets enjoy this "game" to the fullest! 😉

TA :cool2:
 
Buddha plug

see, now this is why buddhism is a good philosophy to follow:

it has predictive power. by this i do not mean that it has psychic connotations, but that it can make predictions borne out by our observations. Buddha said that the world is an illusion, and the existences of realities other than ours as posited by this thread would seem to correalate this.

it also conforms to current scientific thought (again the cosmology mentioned here)

it has not yet been proven wrong. this in itself is not a good reason, but supports the other two. Buddhism is not at odds with scientific progress, it embraces it. the Dalai lama himself admitted that if it was proven wrong, they would change.

om mane padme hum y'all😎
 
Slight problems:

For every action made, a universe is simultaniously created where all other possible actions other than the one that you made actualy happen. For everyone one of those universes, the process is repeated almost immediately after and we have an uncountable number of universes within a matter of seconds which continue to spawn new, slightly different versions of themselves at a truluy expanential rate. That is the consequence of the current theory regarding multiverses connected to one's actions.

Now.

Think about what makes those decisions...the mind, right? Or the soul, if you preferre, since the brain is a lump of matter that I personaly beleive holds the soul, which by standard definition is pretty immaterial and not 100% connected to this plane of existence. How the hell does your actions, which are the physical manifestations of your will, spawn an entire universe that isn't even fully connected to this one? Where does all the matter come from, and if it comes from nothing (which is breaking some pretty fundemental laws of physics) then why does it follow in this universe and probably most of the others that you can't get something from nothing?

I personaly have too many problems with the theory, even if its explained that all the universes came into existence at the same point in time (just thought of that), because then we're asking some pretty serious questions about one's free will...

Man, this existentialism is a laugh, no? 😉

AT
 
Maybe NOTHING doesn't exist!

Show me nothing...show me an empty basket...there's not nothing in there...there is AIR and atoms and stuff. Show me where there is absolutely NOTHING...can't do it can ya? 😛

Where is nothing? Where nothing APPEARS TO BE, there is actually SOMETHING!

TA :cool2:
 
While all these speculations about a multiverse are quite amusing, I prefer to see the things in a scientific way:

According to current 'state of art', a huge amount of quantum foam of rather obscure structure must have existed at the 'Big Bang', in zero space and zero time. Our own universe was the start of space and time as we know it.

Then there is the 'string theory': Some scientists have deducted that there must have been either 11 or 26 dimensions (proved by extremely difficult mathematics, but impossible to prove by observation or experiments). Only 4 of these dimensions unfolded in our universe, the rest of them were rolled into 'strings'. These don't influence our universe, and they are not accessible to us, except by mathematics.

Some of them may have unfolded in other parallel universes, and the original quantum foam might also have developed other universe bubbles. That however is mere speculation. The only hint towards this theory is the fact that the quantum foam can't have been evenly distributed or homogenous, otherwise no matter in our universe could exist (matter and antimatter would have cancelled out each other completely, only leaving electromagnetic waves).

Yet, these speculations are irrelevant for this world, as there is no interaction between those parallel universes. Our laws of physics are valid throughout our universe, and interference from other dimensions or universes would cause some observable break somewhere.

Serious science deals only with our universe and leaves the speculations to philosophy, theology, or science fiction. Only quantum physics actually stumbled over a real possibility for alternate parallel universes.

11-dimensional greetings! 😎
 
Haltickling said:
While all these speculations about a multiverse are quite amusing, I prefer to see the things in a scientific way:

The article being quoted was in Scientific American, one of the most reputable science magazines available. This isn't randomly speculative, it's based on hard science and impossible-to-ignore mathematical models.
 
Jeff, by no means do I doubt the validity of these mathematically-proved theories. I even mentioned in my post some of those, they are an important part of scientific cosmology.

However, not every mathematically proved possibility automatically means that there is an equivalent in the real world. A simple example: The square root of any number gives us two solutions: a positive and a negative one. Yet there is no such thing as a negative area, so the negative solution is irrelevant to the real world, although the mathematical proof is irrefutable. Mathematics even calculate with Irreal Numbers (like the square root of a negative number). Not every logically/mathematically correct fact is necessarily true. Basic natural philosophy.

What I wanted to say in my post is: every mathematical model is a more or less well-founded speculation for science until we find a method to prove it scientifically. As these parallel universes are inaccessible to science by definition (otherwise they would be a part of our own universe), they don't bear any relevance to the real world. It remains a model, no matter how well-founded the mathematical proof is.
 
t s s said:
i`ve been to that universe..anyone who wants to experience it-here`s the secret....a minimum of twelve buds and two huge spliffs 😀



I've been there too but I traveled in "weed"!
 
MTP Jeff said:


The article being quoted was in Scientific American, one of the most reputable science magazines available. This isn't randomly speculative, it's based on hard science and impossible-to-ignore mathematical models.
Yeah but the majority of "scientists" say that we evolved from apes and all it takes is just one look at this marvelous earth and the incredible human body to see that we were all created by a higher power. So don't believe everything sciencists say. We all die after 85 or so years of life. We are nothing compared to who created us.
 
Hal the square root of negative numbers (imaginary numbers) do have an extensive use in the real world in NMR, in Molecular orbital theory to name a few. Many things that are considered to be just theories or mathematical models now will be proven. The theory of relativity was just a theory but now that it has been shown to be correct with at least several experiments it is a useful predictive tool in the real world. The same will be true for the multiverse theories today they will soon either be proved to be true or not and if they are true will give us powerful new tools in understanding our universe. In the article there is at least some evidence for the Level II multiverse so already we are starting to unravel these mysteries. It will be a very long time before we get anywhere near unravelling it completely because I think the tools we possess now are not yet adequate to handle such complex things. However in science the journey of discovery is half the fun.
 
unitkl said:
Yeah but the majority of "scientists" say that we evolved from apes and all it takes is just one look at this marvelous earth and the incredible human body to see that we were all created by a higher power. So don't believe everything sciencists say. We all die after 85 or so years of life. We are nothing compared to who created us.

I believe that evolution is a fact (it happened) but I also believe that a higher power had a hand in it, or at least laid out how it was to happen.

Believing we evolved from apes does not exclude belief in a higher power.
 
I agree with TKpervert on that one evolution is indeed a fact. I also do believe in a higher power as well.
 
Open your mind...

There is a universe within you, and a universe around you, between which there is no separation.

Use of the term "real world" is too concrete and limited. The things we are aware of and are able to "prove" empirically are miniscule given the infinite and eternal scope of the universe.

Is the mind's subconscious valid in the "real world"? Of course it is, but hardly anything is "proven" regarding its incredible power.

Our laws of physics are valid throughout our universe, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that there are many other laws and phenomenae (that are equally valid) that affect them.

And because some phenomena has not yet been explained to the satisfaction of the scientists does not mean that it doesn't exist.

Button :upsidedow
 
Well time is not a static, and is only a means of measuring events because in the universe that we can see, things change. Things are born or created, things exist, things die or are destroyed on a constant basis. Why. Because this dimension we live in needs this change, and because of the old axiom about this universe: For something in this universe to live, something else must die. So we, being the nature of humans, needed a way to measure the distance in between those events that are occurring all around us. Time is faster on the moon than it is on Earth by a few hundreds of seconds I believe. And time is expanded in the universe longer than it is on earth. Hence, if we where able to do space exploration and send a ship out, every year that the crew got old, we on earth would get ten years older. They are postulating that it has something to do with the distance of rotation that you are in (earth rotation, the universes rotation) as everything rotates. So the theory goes, the bigger the rotation is, the longer time is expanded for you.

I also listened to a scientist who works for the government on time travel at the government labs on the upper east coast. He is saying that they are able to do it now. The government stumbled on to it with the Philadelphia experiment (yeah there was a movie about it, but they changed alot of stuff) the government had been trying to create a cloaking shield for their battle cruisers using a super field of energy and magnetism. They equipped a cruiser with a device and turned it on. The ship disappeared. When it reappeared and they went on the ship to examine it, they found the crew that had been on the ship had merged into the hull of the ship. A man fused into a wall, arms sticking out of other walls, etc. (just like you saw in the movie). Now apparently, that ship appeared for a few seconds’ years later in that spot, and then disappeared. They stumbled on time travel by accident. What had happened was that the field they created was unstable. Now they are using a similar technique, but also using lasers to contain the electro-magnetic field and the subjects that they are moving about through space are fine. They have tested it with clocks (digital, wind up, and clocks that use a ball bearing system) as well as plants and have been successful. They can go forward in time 300 percent, but backwards I believe only 1/10th real time. The thing that the scientist don’t find funny, but they said is the biggest thing in terms of getting more investments (this research is being funded with corporate funding as well as government funding) is that, in the case with the ball bearing clock (where ball bearings drop off a platform in sequential time) is that as the ball bearings fall, they disappear for a few seconds, then reappear in space exactly in the same spot. We are years away from being able to have any practical application for it.

And regarding dimensions, I remember listening to Dr. Okaku, whose findings on this mater where reported in the NY Times, that other dimensions do exist and may be only a inch or two apart from each other in theory. They discovered this as one of our satellites that we launched went beyond our universe and any planets and should have been fee floating in the direction it was going. However, it began being pushed by an unseen, undetectable force the opposite way. The theory (after much conjecture amongst the physics community) is that this satellite is being pushed by the gravity field of a planet in that exists in another dimension, but one that does not exist in our universe.
 
I would REALLY LIKE to see these "articles"

buggs said:
Well time is not a static, and is only a means of measuring events because in the universe that we can see, things change. Things are born or created, things exist, things die or are destroyed on a constant basis. Why. Because this dimension we live in needs this change, and because of the old axiom about this universe: For something in this universe to live, something else must die. So we, being the nature of humans, needed a way to measure the distance in between those events that are occurring all around us. Time is faster on the moon than it is on Earth by a few hundreds of seconds I believe. And time is expanded in the universe longer than it is on earth. Hence, if we where able to do space exploration and send a ship out, every year that the crew got old, we on earth would get ten years older. They are postulating that it has something to do with the distance of rotation that you are in (earth rotation, the universes rotation) as everything rotates. So the theory goes, the bigger the rotation is, the longer time is expanded for you.

I also listened to a scientist who works for the government on time travel at the government labs on the upper east coast. He is saying that they are able to do it now. The government stumbled on to it with the Philadelphia experiment (yeah there was a movie about it, but they changed alot of stuff) the government had been trying to create a cloaking shield for their battle cruisers using a super field of energy and magnetism. They equipped a cruiser with a device and turned it on. The ship disappeared. When it reappeared and they went on the ship to examine it, they found the crew that had been on the ship had merged into the hull of the ship. A man fused into a wall, arms sticking out of other walls, etc. (just like you saw in the movie). Now apparently, that ship appeared for a few seconds’ years later in that spot, and then disappeared. They stumbled on time travel by accident. What had happened was that the field they created was unstable. Now they are using a similar technique, but also using lasers to contain the electro-magnetic field and the subjects that they are moving about through space are fine. They have tested it with clocks (digital, wind up, and clocks that use a ball bearing system) as well as plants and have been successful. They can go forward in time 300 percent, but backwards I believe only 1/10th real time. The thing that the scientist don’t find funny, but they said is the biggest thing in terms of getting more investments (this research is being funded with corporate funding as well as government funding) is that, in the case with the ball bearing clock (where ball bearings drop off a platform in sequential time) is that as the ball bearings fall, they disappear for a few seconds, then reappear in space exactly in the same spot. We are years away from being able to have any practical application for it.

And regarding dimensions, I remember listening to Dr. Okaku, whose findings on this mater where reported in the NY Times, that other dimensions do exist and may be only a inch or two apart from each other in theory. They discovered this as one of our satellites that we launched went beyond our universe and any planets and should have been fee floating in the direction it was going. However, it began being pushed by an unseen, undetectable force the opposite way. The theory (after much conjecture amongst the physics community) is that this satellite is being pushed by the gravity field of a planet in that exists in another dimension, but one that does not exist in our universe.

Umm, somehow that doesnt sound very believable. But then again, I've seen statistically impossible things proven true, so maybe it is. In any case, could you please post the articles, or urls to them. Thanks.
 
It has been speculated that black holes are the gates to other dimensions and universes. It has also been theorized that each black hole leads to a different universe. What this means is that the formation of each and every black hole corresponds to the formation of a new universe. And in each new universe, more black holes form, each one connected to yet another universe. This is said to continue on into infinity, with more universes forming all the time. But, even if this universe were to collapse in a "Big Crunch," the universes created by the old black holes would still exist, soon to be joined by the universes formed by black holes in our newly "remodeled" universe.

Another point with black holes is that very large ones are said to be easy access points to other universes. Let me clarify: by large I mean formed by the collapse of stars over 10 million times as massive as our sun. Such a black hole would be so massive (in terms of mass, not size), would have a much smaller gravitational pull than a less massive black hole. (If you want to know why, tell me and I'll post it, otherwise I won't, seeing as it would really need to be in a seperate post.) This lack of intense gravity, although there is still some, means that the process known as spaghettification does not occur. Spaghettification is the way that things that enter smaller black holes are streched out and torn apart. This would allow an explorer to access other universes safely. An interesting side effect of this process is that time slows down as you approach the hole. Both an observer and the explorer feel as if time is normal for them, but the observer witnesses the explorer seeming to slow down as he/she closes with the hole. As they reach the event horizon and cross over into the other possible universe, they seem to freeze, never seeming to make it through when viewed from the outside, even though they actually did cross over.

Also, the theoretical phenomenon known as "naked singularities" have been connected to other universes. A naked singularity is essentially a black hole without an event horizon. (An event horizon is the point in a black hole where nothing can escape.) This means that it is possible to fly in and out of the singularity without being crushed by gravity. The singularity itself is an infinity thin ring that, unlike a black hole, would be visible to an outside observer as more than a black area in space. Near and in a naked singularity, parts of other universes could "bleed" over into ours. Many of these things would be in violation of the laws of physics. For example, a gas cloud near such a singularity might spontaneously change into a giant alien cat! The reason all normal black holes don't behave in this fashion is that their gravity prevents these phenomenon from escaping the singularity of the black hole, acting as kind of a cosmic cop. However, if naked singularities do exist, they would only exist for a short period, before an event horizon formed over them. But, the existance of even one naked singularity could spell untold chaos throughout all the universe, due to the violation of the laws of physics by these intruding universes.

There's my evidence. Now I'll give you all a rest and shut up.
 
This is stuff I fundementally believe in. And the thing is, that all these dimension occupy the same place in space and time as ours (the 3rd) does. Because they can be so different, it's possible that in the fifth dimension, Venus and Mars are currently teeming with life. Or in the 6th dimension, Ringo might have been a really good drummer. Well, maybe that's too far-fetched.

However, even though many people here might believe in their existence, I think they would fid it hard to swallow that ours if affected by the others (particularly the 4th) all the time.


Anyone got a link to the Scientific American article?
 
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