Plot and characters

[ElFewja]

When I write a story, almost always, I'm trying to tell a story. I start the ideas for plot well before the characters, because unfortunately I view characters as a tool to forward the plot. After I've established a plot I try to find characters that would fit in the circumstances, or modify them in a believable way (a millionaire does not rob a bank. A person who was fired from there recently does).

In the names topic, Sable brings up the I don't care what happens to my characters notion, which returns me to Six Characters Searching for an Author by this guy named Luigi. It's a play; there are six well developed characters searching for a director that will put on their play, but they can't find one. It's good. It really moved me as a writer and made me start rethinking my characters, since I'm basically creating an individual and forcing my whim upon them, etc. etc.

Except, for a story, it doesn't really work. For a play, it is possible to do, and I'm working on a project at the moment where there isn't a plot, just several strongly developed characters interacting with each other, but this just isn't possible with a fictional story. So I go with a plot and find characters that work with the plot, but does that mean I don't care about my characters?

When does it become a thing where I don't care about my characters, and what do I need to do to make it appear as if I do within a story? I mean, for the most part, my stories are all about the interactions between characters anyway, with a loose plot that serves to establish why one is tickling the other, and I feel like that emphasis makes my characters more real and less cartoony, but I'm not sure.

Do I not care about them if I don't give them names? I dunno, I think sometimes - a lot of the times - they don't really need names, especially if I'm going to use it once, maybe twice, just so the reader finds it a tad easier to know who I'm talking about. I feel like if they're just there to be tickled, I probably don't care about them as much, but it can be somewhat hard at times depending on the point of view and plot line of the story; maybe my protagonist just wants to kidnap someone, gag them and tickle them like crazy. In that case it would make sense to just have it be a nameless, backgroundless woman; but does that mean I don't care about her, and do I take the time to give her a background instead to get around that?

Yeah, I dunno. I have no idea what I'm thinking, just sort of rambling and typing.

Sable, come here and make some sense out of this. Give me something to center and focus around. I've been awake for too long.

Etc.

 

[Celerich]

Characters that appear more than twice, even if it's for a few moments, should have names. It makes things flow easier. And you don't have to make it look like you care about your characters. Character development is a lot easier than it seems. For me, i sometimes pick someone i know, family member, etc. Make a character with that kind of attitude toward the world, and presto. Character. Once you get better at it, then you can take that character based on a family member, and alter the personality for more interesting character development.

Ok, let me share something with you, that's always bugged me a little. I love tickling, as i AM on these forums, but when writing, i don't like to write a story based entirely about tickling. It needs to have something concrete to advance a plot that can HAVE tickling, but is not ABOUT tickling. And once you start making a real, juicy plot, and throw some tickling in it, THEN it becomes alot easier to care about the characters you create. They're no longer tickle tools, they're people living in good/bad times with good/bad friends. If you ever need help with writing, and i won't pretend like i'm some writing God, just message me and i'll try to help out as best i can.

 

[Sablesword]

When I write a story, almost always, I'm trying to tell a story. I start the ideas for plot well before the characters, because unfortunately I view characters as a tool to forward the plot. After I've established a plot I try to find characters that would fit in the circumstances, or modify them in a believable way (a millionaire does not rob a bank. A person who was fired from there recently does).

Now there's a challenge: Write a story where a millionaire does rob a bank. Give the millionaire a good reason to do so, and for extra points make it a classic bank robbery, rather than something more akin to the recent financial news where millionaires were ripping off banks left and right.

When does it become a thing where I don't care about my characters, and what do I need to do to make it appear as if I do within a story? I mean, for the most part, my stories are all about the interactions between characters anyway, with a loose plot that serves to establish why one is tickling the other, and I feel like that emphasis makes my characters more real and less cartoony, but I'm not sure.

I think you're misunderstanding - it's not necessarily that the writer has to care about his characters. The Eight Deadly Words are spoken by the reader when he no longer cares.

Of course, if you signal that you, the writer, don't care about the characters - for example by not bothering to name them - then you're telling the reader that he shouldn't care either.

You don't need to spell out the character's psychological profile and life story to show that you care (or to make it look like that you care). You just need to give the impression that there is one. In the "names" thread you wrote: "But a name is not character development or establishment, more of an icon that pretends outwardly to be that, but truly isn't." Well, yes. Except that it doesn't matter that it "truly isn't." "Pretending outwardly to be that" is exactly what's needed - something both necessary and desirable.

Oh, and plot is important too. Even interesting characters can be boring if they're only shown doing uninteresting things, and even relatively dull characters can be worth reading about if they're in a suitably interesting plot.

 

[Sablesword]

WRT "A millionaire robs a bank" - one way to start an interesting story (not the only way, but one way) is with a "man bites dog" premise. Something unusual. Something that hooks the reader, making him say "OK, I gotta see how this comes out."

My own favorite story, "Adoria's Interrogation" uses this: The protagonist deliberately tries to get herself interrogated under tickle-torture.

What other inverted or twisted story-premises can people here come up with?

 

[Cbarton]

My story "One Foot at a Time" is that kind of twisted story premise ( a lee intentionally becoming one to meet a purpose). That was the whole reason behind it and it was fun to to try to make the lee the 'predator' instead of the ler. Quite a challenge.

 

[ElFewja]

Obviously the millionaire would be a batmanesque villain that sort of just enjoys the thrill of doing it. I really like that concept. Someone should do it.

Yeah Sable, I totally get worked up over things, can you tell D:.

On your last statement, quoting me and criticizing me; you are absolutely right. Fuck me for taking my twisted psyche into this shit; you're absolutely right in this situation. Just because that name means nothing to me does not mean it means nothing to someone else. Likewise, by not including a name - which means something to me - it more than likely won't mean anything to someone else, who would potentially just write it off as me being lazy. These are words I can understand. Thanks.

Also, I do love that whole, lee puts herself in the position to be tickled, because not only does it work and provide interesting characterization, I think that a lot of the 'lees on this board find themselves in that position. I know my ex would taunt me with her feet all the effing time, at any rate, provoking tons of tickles >>.

Etc

 

[ElFewja]

To Cel; yeah, I work the other way. I'll take a single scene, and build up to it. If it's not a decent story where tickling makes sense, then it's just garbage and I take forever to finish it. But then, I think I made that point clear by proxy, as that is also how I develop characters, so etc.

Etc.

 

[Sablesword]

Obviously the millionaire would be a batmanesque villain that sort of just enjoys the thrill of doing it.

Don't stop with the first idea you have - why else might a millionaire rob a bank?

Does he make a regular habit of it, or is it a one-time-thing for him? Or maybe robbing banks is how he became a millionaire (by being one of the tiny fraction of bank robbers who actually gets away with it) - and now, "for some reason" he's called out of retirement to pull one more job.

Or maybe the robbery is a diversion to cover up some other caper. Maybe he needs to secretly stash something in the bank (or bank vault).

Or maybe he needs cash to pay a ransom, and can't use his own fortune. (Maybe the kidnappers insist on money that can't be traced back to Mr. Millionaire's own holdings.)

Or... Now you think of one. Ideas are cheap.

 

[ElFewja]

Ideas are not cheap.

Rather than come up with specific ideas, I'll just state a few possibilities for your entertainment.

The bank may have some sort of priceless artifact, or specific jewelery/item. Banks don't just hold money.

Bills have a number on them, I believe used for identification. I'm broke, don't have any bills around the house at the moment, so I can't go into greater detail, but there are multitudes of ways that that can be utilized.

Banks mark bills sometime, so they cant be used or the robbers can be caught. Perhaps our millionaire needs marked bills for a particular reason.

Obviously the thrill of something forbidden; but what if he needs to get caught for a particular reason, or to meet a particular person, who he can only safely contact in a setting that appears to be natural. Can't just visit the jail; has to be arrested. Can't just call the cop; has to be arrested. Because he's being monitored, and this sort of activity would make it harder to monitor. I dunno, something.

How about assumed conventions. What other things would one assume about our society and the way it is set up, that doesn't necessarily need to be true? Changing any of those factors could alter the story in a way to make it very interesting.

Etc.