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Reevaluating revelations

player 01

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Well this is a thread I wanted to start because I'd been thinking on certain subjects but wanted to make this thread more universal and not about just me, so basically this is a thread dedicated to posting about things you've learned and/or realized about things like stories, films, video games, art, etc, after a long time growing as a person and changing your views.

As for me, the revelation that caused me to start this thread is my outlook on V for Vendetta, when I first saw the film and later read the book I loved it and saw V as a romantic, yet tragic, heroic figure, but admitedly as a I grew I started to loath the book and character, part of the reason is its associations with anonymous and 4chan and all that is retarded, and also came to form personal political and philosophical outlooks that conflicted with the theories of anarchy.

However over the last week I had come to think of it differently, though I still hold to my established view that ultimately V's story is one of tragedy and abuse begetting abuse, the horror doesn't end on a personal level, to quote the film every action has a reaction, they created a monster through monstrous actions. V's words ring truer on more levels than a simple story it appears to be on the surface, rather V's actions and the ideology he inspires only serve to cause greater chaos and suffering the long run, with the destruction of the civilian government and the military intact what did he expect would happen. At best the 'revolution' V starts would be put down under the heel of a potentially more competent and violent military dictatorship, at worse the army breaks down to a level of banditry and warlordism.

We never actually see or know what caused the world of V to be the way it was that caused the world to be the way it was or what kept it going, for all the readers know the fascist government of Norsefire was completely necessary and appropriate in whatever global situation they faced, and if anarchy really took hold in a country, in a world, already racked by nuclear conflict then a break down of central government could very lead to a new dark age.

Bravo V, you fucking asshole, way to send Britain spiraling into barbarism.

Anyway this is just my opinion on my readings of Alan Moore's work, in all seriousness I think he's really one of the finest writers in the english language, one of my two all time favorite comic writers along with Grant Morrison, and if you disagree well you're welcome to it, but just because V is the title character doesn't make him the hero nor do we have to automatically have to root for him, its like in Star Trek, you don't always have to agree with the federation and starfleet just because its their show, hell some of the best episodes in the franchise came about because the characters questioned their personal and ideological principles as Starfleet officers.

Anyway that's it, thanks to all those we read this far without deciding tl;dr, here's one of my very rare contributions to the forum that isn't just posting a link.:lol
 
The world might indeed be headed towards a barbaric age but hey, it might lead to a new golden age as well. The only way though I could see humanity surviving for the next thousand years or so is a artificial plague being unleashed which wipes out up to 98% of humanity (with the rest of humanity becoming completely immune and animals, fish, birds, and insects not affected at all). Nuclear war or any calamity from outer space (aside from a plague from space) pretty much rules out life on Earth being sustainable (at least not until a few million years pass by [which by then the radiation levels will probably be down at last and the process of life/evolution will start all over again]). So, yeah, I'm hoping it's a plague apocalypse which gives humanity a 2nd chance and not anything else. However (and I'm sad to admit this) if such a thing could happen to GIVE humanity a 2nd chance, it kinda needs to happen within the next fifty years or so. Otherwise the Earth is gonna be in pretty shitty shape and it won't matter weather 98% of humanity dies off.
 
Well that's awfully cynical, after all whatever happened to the possibility of compensating for limitations of resources of technological advancement and offworld colonization.
 
Assuming we don't use said high-tech technology (nanites [microscopic machines], geneites [artificial organisms which do the work on nanites on the genetic level], or cybernetics/bionetics) as weaponry (which would probably destroy Earth [google "grey goo scenario"]), then our best bet for survival is either a mass exodus via colony ship to another world (or several worlds if Earth's population is taken into account) or terraforming Mars and moving the bulk of Earth's population there.

There are, unfortunately, problems with this scenario though. There are currently over 6.6 BILLION people on Earth. Unless a revolutionary drug/medical procedure becomes available which aids a government in executing an easy one child only/sterility program then we are unfortunately going to be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of people wanting to get off Earth.

Simply put, unless humanity's numbers start shrinking and shrinking soon, lots of people might be left behind if we ever leave Earth. Of course, nanites can clean up our pollution and even reduce our trash to it's base components (for reuse) but that's only going to buy us a limited amount of time I'm afraid.

The final problem in a mass exodus into space is (like all truths) a triple-edged sword. Problem A is materials needed to build a ship massive enough (aka Earth might not have enough raw material needed for it). Problem B is right now we DO NOT have an energy source capable of powering such a ship nor driving the ship to the levels of speed necessary to take it to another planet (Mars is of course an exception however).

Considering the space program of the USA is virtually extinct right now, I don't think space travel is going to be as advanced as some might think come 50 or 100 plus years from now. Humanity has a tremendous tendency to put things off until the last moment (which sadly might be a factor of our undoing). Finally, there is of course Problem C. Even if (by chance) we were able to push a ship to the speed of light or beyond, the people on said ship will unfortunately experience a time differential with the rest of the universe.

Aka by the time they arrive at Alpha Centauri or any other habital planet, the sun might have very well expanded to the point where it's reduced Earth to a molten ball of lava and methane. The faster you go past the speed of light, the more time slows down for you (granted YOUR PERCEPTION OF TIME WILL NOT SLOW DOWN but pray none of your family is on another ship that happens to break down for a few years while the engineers fix the problem because by the time you reach your destination, they're going to be f'ing fossils!)

Now, of course the possibility exists for wormholes, hyperspace, and other such methods of travel, but unfortunately scientists have done the calculations on how much SHEER ENERGY would be needed to punch a hole to dig a tunnel through another dimension to punch ANOTHER hole back into our universe (or even to accelerate to a speed where technically you ARE IN ANOTHER DIMENSION). That amount of energy my friend is more or less equal to the SIZE OF JUPITER! Somehow I doubt we'll be inventing a energy source of that magnitude without wiping ourselves out within the next 100 years.

Anywho, those are the issues at hand. Feel free to point out opposed view points. I'm enjoying this. ^_^
 
Yes, while you're having fun derailing the thread if your defeatism, you seem to be basing your arguements off the single belief that the entire human race cannot produce as well as consume, something very common these days.

With that let me say that the future of humanity can be secured through greater, controlled growth, reduction of population as you claim is not necessary since economic development ensures technology streamlines consumption to the point of sustainability, which is just a simple and sensible economic practice. Humanity's prosperity will be improved through production which in turn stimulates development technologically to improve humanity's chances of survival and productivity.

After all simply to claim impossibility of something because of how we are now, at this very moment, makes your claims cynical to the point of stupidity and fails to point all the various natural obstecles humanity has overcome in the history of the species.

PS NASA isn't the only space agency in the world.
 
In no part of pointing out my point of view on this subject did I say that humanity was 100% DOOMED and that it was impossible to save our race! What the heck is wrong with playing the devil's advocate once and awhile? If you don't want to here the risks and problems entailed with dealing with saving the world then don't bother coming to the playing field and making a wager!

Not only have you labeled me a defeatist but you've also insulted me by called my arguments (as well as me) stupid. As every action promotes an opposite if not equal reaction, I hereby label you an clueless optimist as well as a person who can't handle a little disagreement with his point of view but absolutely must have his own point of view pointed out for the ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE. In short, your also a hypocrite.
 
In no part of pointing out my point of view on this subject did I say that humanity was 100% DOOMED and that it was impossible to save our race! What the heck is wrong with playing the devil's advocate once and awhile? If you don't want to here the risks and problems entailed with dealing with saving the world then don't bother coming to the playing field and making a wager!

Not only have you labeled me a defeatist but you've also insulted me by called my arguments (as well as me) stupid. As every action promotes an opposite if not equal reaction, I hereby label you an clueless optimist as well as a person who can't handle a little disagreement with his point of view but absolutely must have his own point of view pointed out for the ENTIRE WORLD TO SEE. In short, your also a hypocrite.

Fair enough, sorry about the initial reaction and the insults, then again in all fairness considering this thread was originally about films and interpreting them it should be expected that you'll be regarded with suspicion for any kind of thread derailment, especially one that vears as far away from the subject matter as yours does.

Anyway the main problem I had with your responses wasn't really the cynicism perse rather the selectiveness of your facts, you talk about space travel yet you say that the failures of NASA alone will prevent the human race from developing effective space travel inspite of the fact that the US isn't the only nation on earth with a working space program, you talk about aids as if it somehow unstoppable yet ignore the historical precedents for how many seemingly unstoppable diseases have been overcome through science, innovation and sustained economic growth. You talk about power generation and pollution being problems and yet you ignore the streamlining of current forms of power generation technology in the fields of coal, hydroelectricity and nuclear power where the dangers are either grossly overstated or can be corrected with further technological development. Furthermore on one final note you only ASSUME that a 'mass exodus' into space can only occur as a last ditch effort to preserve the species rather than an evolutionary extension of humanity's economic development, you ASSUME far too much about the state and means of how humanity's technological or scientific progress unfolds.

Anyway once again sorry to offend you, i don't mind talking about all this on a seperate thread, and i'd rather not make this a greater problem than it is or make you into an enemy of some sort since i come to this place to relax and not constantly worry about issues of cliquism and outright paranoia.
 
I saw "V For Vendetta" as yet another rewrite of 1984. A good read and skillful updating of Orwell's dystopian novel.

I remember reading similarly dire predictions to the ones being made in this thread which were written in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. I can't remember any titles or the names of the authors (and I don't just now have time to Google them). I forget who it was who said that whoever predicts a negative future will be regarded as a prophet. Not that things aren't looking mighty ugly on a number of levels (the US government just made renouncing your US citizenship, which used to be free, cost US$450.00. What are we to make of that?).

FWIW, my worst fear is not that the Apocalypse is at hand. My worst fear is that the current social order, where we the great showered-and-shaved masses get ruled over by a small but powerful and sociopathic elite, will prevail forever.
 
Okay, I'm not gonna quote everybody since there's too much, and.. no offense, some of it is just outright barbaric.

The "space problem" is interesting but needs a rework. Currently, Mars is a little far beyond our reach. Getting there is a question of: cost effectiveness and ease of journey. To make the most cost effective and easy journey to Mars, the maneuver you would do what is called a Hohmann transfer orbit. A Hohmann transfer orbit uses a "slight" engine push; mostly guided by trajectory and gravity of the sun to carry the payload. It can be done with from higher or lower orbits. However...

Every 26 months there is a "window" between the orbits of Earth and Mars where they are closest to eachother. If launched to meet this window, the craft would probably need around 8 months to get there. However, humans cannot survive long trips in space. Living in microgravity causes muscle atrophy and bone density loss. The effects of long-term exposure to cosmic radiation is something we're not entirely aware of either. A group of humans probably could endure the 8 month journey to Mars; but then once they arrived, they would have to wait another 26 months to make a trip back. With NASA looking the way it is, it's possible, but logistically impossible at the moment.

Now, I'm going to completely ignore the idea of hyperspace/other dimensions/wormholes, because there's no evidence for any of them. I couldn't even begin to speculate on how to access these forms of travel. However, there are some things I can ponder. Jupiter has a rather large gravity well, and an even larger magnetosphere. Succinctly; Jupiter is very very big. We also know that mass = energy, so Jupiter has a lot of energy. However, in order to begin having a visible effect on space-time you need objects with mass on scale with stars. The sun is a perfect example. What kind of effects, you may ask? During a "perfect" solar eclipse, one can observe stars directly behind the sun due to their light being curved around the sun. Normally one cannot see this because, obviously, the sun is always dominantly luminous. To have an even greater effect (like time dilation; it can be achieved with great speed, but it still requires a great amount of energy), one must start working with objects on par with black holes. The problems with this scenario are obvious. 😉 I mention all of this because, the power requirement to put an object with mass (greater than a photon; photons have mass less than one, closer to zero - it's complicated, let's just say it's zero :stickout ) near the speed of light is literally infinite.

However, hope is not lost for humanity, or NASA. They had the hindsight to begin granting seed money to commercial spaceflight programs (much like Virgin Galactic). Things may seem bleak for some, but there's nothing wrong with being optimistic about our situation. One only needs to decide to do something about it. There have been breakthroughs in the past, events that inspire people to stand up and change things - or to endure. We've had this in the past, and we have it today. We will most certainly have it tomorrow. 🙂
 
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