Respect (please read)

[Daumantas]

I'd like to talk a bit seriously for a moment and address what seems at least to me to have been a trend lately here in the TMF: the tendency of some people to express themselves in argumentative and somewhat nasty ways, especially when chiming in on political discussions.

Most of us here are refugees from the AMT, and we all know what a flame-filled hellhole that board eventually turned into. And the mods do a marvelous job of keeping any threads from veering into the realm of outright insult. What I'm suggesting is that there's been a tendency lately in some quarters to skirt the borders of what's acceptable. Something may not be a flat-out insult directed at anyone in particular, but it may be indirectly (and probably unintentionally) insulting people without rhyme or reason.

I have personally engaged in a number of interesting political discussions on this board. The vast majority have been very respectful and decent. In fact, the ones I've been in have often arrived at a compromise middle ground that seems reasonable. I'd like to see things stay that way.

Personally, I'm a liberal in my political views. Many of the people with whom I've had debates here - Strel, qjakal, and others - are conservatives. These debates have been invariably friendly because of one basic fact: the recognition on both sides that the other person doesn't hold the political beliefs they hold because they're stupid, or crazy, or deluded, or possessed of some evil ulterior motive. We arrive at the beliefs we arrive at, because of a variety of formative experiences in our lives. (I once said to a conservative friend, who agreed with me, that conservatives become conservatives because they're more afraid of the government, and liberals become liberals because they're more afraid of the corporations.) I like an America with both liberals and conservatives - we keep each other honest.

"But," you say, "Daumantas, sometimes people say things here that really irk me. Shouldn't I write back something nasty? After all, it's my God-given right to speak the truth!" You have a God-given right to speak the truth, and you CAN say something nasty - I'm trying to argue that you SHOULDN'T, for the sake of civility and the common good. There seems to be a trend in our society in the last 40 years or so - and I blame it on everyone from Abbie Hoffman to Rush Limbaugh, so no one gets away with pointing fingers - toward the notion that "speaking the truth" constitutes being a jerk and insulting people who don't agree with you. Your truth is whatever it is. Being a jerk is just being a jerk.

So...when somebody (be they Commie pinko or right-wing gasbag) says something around here that really irritates, you, here's what to do: Stop. Take a few deep breaths. Maybe get up and walk around the room (or better yet, go for a walk around the neighborhood - God knows I need the exercise). Get a drink of water. If you're hungry, fix a sandwich (Elvis liked friend peanut butter and banana sandwiches, and since he was the King of Rock and Roll who are we to argue).

Then...remember that ALL of us are here for the same reason: we think tickling is both fun and sexy. Remember that that person, whatever their politics, and you have this in common: you are likely to be regarded as a "deviant" by narrow minds (and again, those narrow minds are represented by all political stripes). Remember how great it was when you realized that you were not ALONE in your fetish?

That's right. So - to close this windy speech - let's debate each other RESPECTFULLY; let's keep the conversation light; and let's have fun.

(Copies of this speech can be requested from your local public television station)

 

[Longbaugh]

Well said, very good points. I tend to stay away from political threads for those exact reasons. I have enough stress to deal with in the realworld. I don't need the extra crap of arguing in cyberspace.

 

[red indian]

Excuse me!!!

Whats with this "please read" rubbish on the thread title? does this mean we should not read any of the other threads? or does it mean this is the only thread worth reading? perhaps Reverend Daumantas could give me spiritual guidance on this matter?

 

[Daumantas]

"Please read" means that I wanted people to read it.

Thank you, red indian, for proving my entire point. 🙄

 

[kurchatovium]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Daumantas. I really don't like labels like conserative or liberal but I suppose on most things I am fairly conserative. However I judge each issue on its own merits. I would agree as well that what makes this country great is the fact that people with such differing views can still get along and getting along is ultimately what is important. I hope no one has taken anything I've said personally because I believe basically most people are good at heart. These discussions though I feel are useful and I have learned a lot from them even if they do get heated from time to time. I think a little heat is good, but we should always be wary of letting it turn into out and out flames. This forum is no where near as bad as the AMT because of the great job the moderators do at keeping things in check. We too should help them out by trying to be a bit more civil in our discussions.

 

[qjakal]

red.....

Man, he fell for that one like a ton of bricks! Ok...although I like to think of myself as an "independent", with conservative leanings on some issues and decidely liberal ones on others, I certainly agree with your major points, D, and have enjoyed our lively discussions in the past. However, when you state that some people may be unintentionally causing problems, I think you're streeeeetching the proverbial benefit of the doubt a bit too far. When an individuals contributions are consistently of the "Oh yeah, says you" variety, they have basically stated their objective within the Forum as being disruptive. Once you abandon common courtesy and rational and logical discussion in favor of confrontational slurs, you've forfeited your "rights" to receive the same from the members here, and deserve whatever sanctions you get, imo. There IS a line that shouldn't be crossed in a thread, and lately we've seen quite a few people who under the guise of being "members" of the Forum wantonly sew discord and waste a lot of the Mods time deleting their nonsense. The rules of conduct here are fairly loose, in comparision with most businesses/corporations and military or even educational organizations. If its not your cup of tea, start your own damn Forum and have a ball with it! Meanwhile, intelligent debate and tickling fun/fantasy will still be rolling along here without that element....well stated Daumantas! Q

 

[mabus]

Daumantas, people will sometimes, usually is more like it, get riled up over their political viewpoints. However, you are absolutely right in your beliefs. Watch a talk show. The "debaters" will be screaming at each other. The person who "wins" is the one who can shout the loudest, or has the quickest catch phrase that has nothing to do with intelligence or common sense. It's based on emotion, and usually involves a diss of the other person that's really clever. Is knowledge put forth, are new ideas introduced, do you know why the person believe as they do? No. You leave the argument still not knowing anything about the issue.

When the two debaters shut up and listen, are polite, and both allow the other their say, the debate is infinitely better because the surface is actually breached, ideas are put forth, and because there is no shouting, there are coherent ideas. Then, the ideas must be disected by the oppostion, and his ideas are then disected by the guy or gal he just disagreed with. A lot of information and different viewpoints are given, and the general public can actually reach a good, solid conclusion based on cold facts, and not on who threw the best insult or put down. If only Daumantas idea was used by the eneral public, this country would really get somewhere....

 

[Strelnikov]

Good to hear from you again, D. I've missed our debates. As you say, liberals keep conservatives honest, and vice versa.

You've made a good case for civility, something that has "slipped" a little around here of late. In fact, the "sticky" at the top of this forum says much the same as you did. Hats off to the Mods for the work they do in enforcing it.

BTW, pay red indian no mind. He's actually a pretty decent sort, for a Brit. He was just giving you a poke in the ribs.

Strelnikov

 

[Dave2112]

I couldn't agree more. I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but I have been staying away from debate threads of late for this very reason.

There are two things you can offer a political, moral or religious debate: A Fact or An Opinion. If you are offering an opinion, be prepared for someone else to not agree with it. It's just as much their right to disagree as yours to offer it. If you are putting a fact on the table, please identify it as such and perhaps the source where feasible. The one thing people should NOT do is offer an opinion and represent it as a fact. I think that this is where some of the threads go south on us.

We are all supposed to be here for the same reason. The fact that we are one of the few "Specific Topic/Fetish" boards that even has something like this General Discussion forum is proof of our diversity. Of course we aren't all just a bunch of tickling nuts who think of nothing else...we all have many other things to share. But we also are not a bunch of spatty children who feel a need to push others into our way of thinking. For all of the talk we use about wishing others to accept our fetish and/or lifestyle, I ask that we use this same approach to other topics as well. If you are going to respond to something, ask yourself..."How would I respond if this were tickling-related?"

We have members from many different countries and cultures. It is ridiculous to think that we will agree on everything. But we can be civil and give others the benefit of the doubt. There may be threads that we in the US have more of a finger on the pulse of, and there may be some that our friends to the North or across the Pond might have a better view of. Shooting someone down based on the beliefs they were raised with or the culture they are used to is not only childish, but is the basis for everything that is wrong with this world that we love to complain about so much.

Just pretend you're sitting in the rom with the person you are addressing. Anonimity is no excuse for incivility.😎

 

[red indian]

No problem Q........

Glad to be of service.

 

[qjakal]

Red, red, red,...

You never cease to amaze me...you attack when I expect you to dodge and then start agreeing with me at the oddest times! Stand still and debate like a true ForumJunky, ya slippery goof! You're killing me making me backpedal like this all the time...lol!😛 Q

 

[Daumantas]

Actually, Q - when you consider how far red went out of his way to try to provoke me into saying something REALLY nasty, I think I was rather pleasantly restrained. All I said was that he proved my point about how mean some people are getting around here lately, which is true. See - my system DOES work: get up and have that drink of water. Or fix that peanut butter and banana sandwich, in honor of Elvis.

Speaking of which...Elvis used to have this made for him: they'd take a whole loaf of Italian bread (and since you're Italian and from Long Island, you know how big a piece of real estate that is). They'd scoop out the inside, then fill it with peanut butter, jelly, and bacon, and bake it. Then he'd eat it - the whole thing. The ENTIRE LOAF OF BREAD - in one sitting. It's Elvis Presley's world; the rest of us just live in it. 🙂

 

[qjakal]

The loaf.....

No wonder he spent so damn much time in the can...lol. (that's the "loo" for you, red). That's a LOT of sandwich! Q

 

[omega]

(I once said to a conservative friend, who agreed with me, that conservatives become conservatives because they're more afraid of the government, and liberals become liberals because they're more afraid of the corporations.)

I've often thought that when it comes to other people's money many people are liberal. When it comes to their own money, most people are conservative.

 

[dvnc]

Wow, it's like a who's who of wiley wits in the TMF, here. 😉 Seems t'me that red's still the slickest, 'specially when he gets Q t'stumble. Hee hee!

Bein' civil is apparently a tough one for some folks, but it makes this place a lot more fun. Good post, Daumantas.

 

[red indian]

Litmus Test.

I think my system works pretty well too, it shows up a pompous ass when it sees one.

Q you are miss informed, round these parts it called "The Bog".

 

[qjakal]

Bog?

Damn....misplaced my English to English dictionary again...any particular reason for that, bud? I like 'loo...can we just call it that for fun anyway? Q

 

[maverick83]

Sorry, but I am strongly against censoring people based on the idea that what they say might offend someone. Let 'em say what they want. Senseless rantings will be recognized and mentally discarded by those of us who understand that inflammatory remarks are often a way of saying "I don't have confidence in my own opinions, so I feel threatened by your ideas."