The Assange Saga: Volume XIX

[PhilipRJ_UK]

I don't know about you, but this guy is really starting to irritate me. World leaders are allowed to make 'balcony speeches', as are freedom fighters and religious figureheads, but this man just gets more and more annoying every time he's in the news.

Here's the latest story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20790604

 

[MrMacphisto]

Yeah, he's kind of a joke at this point. A lot of his former coworkers have come out and said that he's an egotist.

 

[milagros317]

Pity the staff of the Ecuadorian embassy. They've been living with him for six months with no end in sight.

 

[RUNOFFSTAGE]

He may very well have flaws when it comes to his own persona, but he brings up an important issue that may otherwise get lost in what Heidi Klum had for lunch or which producer Kristen Stewart is currently shagging. And since he caught your eye, be it in a negative way, he achieved what he wanted - people's attention.

 

[milagros317]

He may very well have flaws when it comes to his own persona ...

If you're referring to the fact that two women in Sweden have charged him with the crime of rape, then you have made a vast understatement.

 

[RUNOFFSTAGE]

If you're referring to the fact that two women in Sweden have charged him with the crime of rape, then you have made a vast understatement.

Have you followed that case closely enough? Then you'll also know that the women's stories have changed and, from the beginning, have major flaws to them. It's also funny how these particular rape cases are so important when cases where the rapist was pretty much caught in the act get dismissed before anyone can cry "unfair".

Disregarding the accusations of rape, seeing as neither you nor I really know what happened, his message about free speech and everyone's right to information is no less important. People are in prison for telling the truth - that's where everyone's focus should be.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Have you followed that case closely enough? Then you'll also know that the women's stories have changed and, from the beginning, have major flaws to them. It's also funny how these particular rape cases are so important when cases where the rapist was pretty much caught in the act get dismissed before anyone can cry "unfair".

Disregarding the accusations of rape, seeing as neither you nor I really know what happened, his message about free speech and everyone's right to information is no less important. People are in prison for telling the truth - that's where everyone's focus should be.

People fear the truth, and will always hide from it. You perpetuate focus, it will not help any bloated cause. Society is too diverse, and can not "focus" on the samething twice.

 

[kis123]

Have you followed that case closely enough? Then you'll also know that the women's stories have changed and, from the beginning, have major flaws to them. It's also funny how these particular rape cases are so important when cases where the rapist was pretty much caught in the act get dismissed before anyone can cry "unfair".

Disregarding the accusations of rape, seeing as neither you nor I really know what happened, his message about free speech and everyone's right to information is no less important. People are in prison for telling the truth - that's where everyone's focus should be.

And he was basically ruined for getting the truth out there too. But at least as bad as things have turned out for him, he's a lot better off than Bradley Manning isn't he? That young man will probably never see the light of day again.......

 

[milagros317]

Have you followed that case closely enough? Then you'll also know that the women's stories have changed and, from the beginning, have major flaws to them.

Do you trash all women who allege that they have been raped? Or only women who accuse a man whose politics you support?

 

[RUNOFFSTAGE]

Do you trash all women who allege that they have been raped? Or only women who accuse a man whose politics you support?

I trash the ones who lie and change their stories to fit their own agenda, as it makes a mockery out of women who have actually been sexually harassed. Do you trash every man who's ever been accused of rape or only ones whose politics you don't support?

Also, before you try and spin it around to make me look like the devil, how about doing some research? Never in my post did I state that "all women who claim to have been raped are liars", I also clearly stated that neither of us know what really happened, thereby saying that he could be lying just as well as they can - maybe they all are.

 

[Bothersome]

I'm one of those American dudes who believes in that innocent until proven guilty nonsense.

But in all seriousness, they can accuse him of whatever they want, but unless there's some cold, hard evidence, I'm afraid I can't support their accusations. I haven't followed the case, but considering that this media outlet calls them 'sexual allegations', then I think we can safely say that there is no actual evidence.

 

[milagros317]

Also, before you try and spin it around to make me look like the devil, how about doing some research? Never in my post did I state that "all women who claim to have been raped are liars", I also clearly stated that neither of us know what really happened, thereby saying that he could be lying just as well as they can - maybe they all are.

On this we agree, we don't know what actually happened and they could easily all be lying.
Do you have enough faith in the court system in Sweden that you believe he would get a fair trial there?

 

[kis123]

I'm one of those American dudes who believes in that innocent until proven guilty nonsense.

But in all seriousness, they can accuse him of whatever they want, but unless there's some cold, hard evidence, I'm afraid I can't support their accusations. I haven't followed the case, but considering that this media outlet calls them 'sexual allegations', then I think we can safely say that there is no actual evidence.

^This^

Seems very timely that the allegations didn't surface until he broke the news through Wikileaks about what was going on in the Middle East and the US connections to it. Funny how that happens....

Besides, I don't trust any major media outlets; they're all corporately owned with ties to the government. IMO nothing they say can be trusted......

 

[Bothersome]

^This^

Seems very timely that the allegations didn't surface until he broke the news through Wikileaks about what was going on in the Middle East and the US connections to it. Funny how that happens....

Besides, I don't trust any major media outlets; they're all corporately owned with ties to the government. IMO nothing they say can be trusted......

I think we can also both agree that if there had been ANY evidence, the media would have plastered it so hard across that article it would have made the internet bleed.

That's just how the media works.

 

[RUNOFFSTAGE]

On this we agree, we don't know what actually happened and they could easily all be lying.
Do you have enough faith in the court system in Sweden that you believe he would get a fair trial there?

If they can drag this out for this long without evidence, I don't think any country could guarantee a fair trial.

 

[milagros317]

If they can drag this out for this long without evidence, I don't think any country could guarantee a fair trial.

It is Assange himself who is dragging it out by taking refuge in the embassy and so staying out of Sweden.
And I find it sad that you have no faith in the judicial system of your own nation.

 

[RUNOFFSTAGE]

It is Assange himself who is dragging it out by taking refuge in the embassy and so staying out of Sweden.
And I find it sad that you have no faith in the judicial system of your own nation.

He did offer them to come to England and interrogate him, as far as I'm aware. Personally I don't see what would be wrong about that.
And here you go again reading things into what I actually typed. In this particular case - no, no I don't have a lot of faith in our system. I also added that I don't know which country I would actually trust in this particular case, considering the circumstances. When it comes to other cases I can only hope they play fair. I'm not looking to play the "stand by your country" game, I believe in looking at things on a case to case basis.

 

[Bothersome]

It is Assange himself who is dragging it out by taking refuge in the embassy and so staying out of Sweden.
And I find it sad that you have no faith in the judicial system of your own nation.

Well, until some actual evidence of anything can be presented, I hardly think he's obligated to do anything.

The burden of proof lies elsewhere.

 

[milagros317]

Well, until some actual evidence of anything can be presented, I hardly think he's obligated to do anything.

The burden of proof lies elsewhere.

The burden of proof always lies with the prosecution.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that I believe he would get a fair trial in Sweden.

 

[Bothersome]

The burden of proof always lies with the prosecution.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that I believe he would get a fair trial in Sweden.

That may be truth, but let's look at this realistically.

If you were accused of robbing a bank, and there was no physical evidence, would you feel obligated to go? The trial could be lengthy, interrupt your lifestyle, and is obviously a waste of your time.

We can talk about a trial when there's some actual evidence. Hell, I'd take circumstantial evidence, even.

 

[milagros317]

That may be truth, but let's look at this realistically.

If you were accused of robbing a bank, and there was no physical evidence, would you feel obligated to go? The trial could be lengthy, interrupt your lifestyle, and is obviously a waste of your time.

We can talk about a trial when there's some actual evidence. Hell, I'd take circumstantial evidence, even.

There was enough evidence for the Stockholm District Court to uphold the arrest warrant against him.

There was enough evidence for the Svea Court of Appeal to uphold the decision of the Stockholm District Court.

There was enough evidence for an English court to order his extradition to Sweden to face these charges.

After this was appealed to the High Court of Justice, there was enough evidence to uphold the extradition order, reject all four grounds on which he appealed, and charge Mr. Assange £19,000 costs as well. (This was on November 2, 2011.)

After Assange appealed to Supreme Court in the UK, they heard his appeal and dismissed it on May 30, 2012.

But I guess you know better than all of these courts what constitutes sufficient evidence to go forward with a prosecution in a rape case.

Note: The above will be my last comment on this case or in this thread. It has become obvious to me that some people regard Assange as sacred and will never believe that he is guilty, regardless of any court findings against him. He is not sacred; he is, IMHO, a narcissistic pig who regards himself above the law and is possibly a serial rapist as well.

 

[kis123]

That may be truth, but let's look at this realistically.

If you were accused of robbing a bank, and there was no physical evidence, would you feel obligated to go? The trial could be lengthy, interrupt your lifestyle, and is obviously a waste of your time.

We can talk about a trial when there's some actual evidence. Hell, I'd take circumstantial evidence, even.

If there was ANY evidence of a crime, he'd be in jail, plain and simple. There is nothing but heresay with no evidence of anything. Just some cries of rape, then changing and conflicting stories. Only homemade BS to get into the media (because everything that's said over the television is true right ).

If anyone can get hardcore bona fide evidence that man did anything wrong with those women, I'd be the first to want him locked up with the key thrown away. As soon as the "evidence" comes.......I won't be holding my breath.

And if ANYONE thinks the US justice is fair, balanced, unbiased, and thinks they'll get a fair trial had better have a big checkbook to pay for it! I deal with the court system often and it's one big giant dog and pony show created by esquires to extort and extract money and property from the ignorant masses (yes that's what they think of us). And don't come in there without one of their BAR card carriers otherwise known as attorneys-then you're really screwed!

And if anyone decides they want a debate with me about the American justice system, give me a holler and we'll do the dance. It won't be pretty, but it's one of the biggest scams going these days. Millions of dollars a day are made in courtrooms....it's how the cities, counties, states, and the country make their money and you still get to pay taxes too! What a racket!!!

It's a huge scam and people suffer at its hands in courtrooms across the country........ Assange had better never get as much as a traffic ticket in the US. By the time the system gets done with him, he'd suffer a worse fate than a murderer!!

 

[kis123]

There was enough evidence for the Stockholm District Court to uphold the arrest warrant against him.

There was enough evidence for the Svea Court of Appeal to uphold the decision of the Stockholm District Court.

There was enough evidence for an English court to order his extradition to Sweden to face these charges.

After this was appealed to the High Court of Justice, there was enough evidence to uphold the extradition order, reject all four grounds on which he appealed, and charge Mr. Assange £19,000 costs as well. (This was on November 2, 2011.)

After Assange appealed to Supreme Court in the UK, they heard his appeal and dismissed it on May 30, 2012.

But I guess you know better than all of these courts what constitutes sufficient evidence to go forward with a prosecution in a rape case.

Note: The above will be my last comment on this case or in this thread. It has become obvious to me that some people regard Assange as sacred and will never believe that he is guilty, regardless of any court findings against him. He is not sacred; he is, IMHO, a narcissistic pig who regards himself above the law and is possibly a serial rapist as well.

But what was the evidence??

The media shared accusations and allegations, but shared no evidence other than some women accused him of rape. If there was real evidence, it would've surfaced by now. If he actually did what he was accused of, none of the women had a strong enough testimony to get him locked up? Multiple women and no strong testimony and no evidence. Just accusations and allegations.....that does not make a case. If it did, he'd be in jail.

But he proved my point; he paid money then go his appeal, then got his freedom. That's how the justice system really works. If you don't have the money, you're going down, plain and simple.

I don't consider the man sacred; actually I don't know much about him at all other than he exposed military secrets and put the US on blast for what they were really doing in Iraq. I know that he's pissed off a lot of people and awakened others to what goes on behind the curtains of government. He'll be paying for that for the rest of his life if government has any say in it.