Tickling Media and Cost

[Madman]

Is it just me, or are prices simply too high for most forms of tickling media? This is certainly not meant to dis those suppliers of the medium, but costs do seem disproportionate compared to similar forms of entertainment...

For those whose goals are to receive some sort of sexual gratification from tickling media (a good portion, I presume), I've seen prices anywhere from $30 - $70 for a video.

By comparison, to the end of gratification, mainstream pornography runs about $10 - $40 per tape.

A different medium: E-comics. Again, I certainly don't mean to be disrespecting small companies like MTJ Publishing, but their asking price seems to average in at about $2.00 per page... It's more expensive for back issues!

To be honest, I don't know of many mainstream e-comics really making money (with some exceptions... "astoundingspacethrills.com" makes its profits off its advertisers), but even were I to compare these e-comics to "real" (print) comics (which I consider superior by virtue of the fact that you have a complete product to hold in your hand without having to print it out yourself, yaddayaddayadda), they could never draw that sort of money! One issue of say, X-MEN would cost $44.00 at $2.00 a page!

I understand publishers have to recoup their expenses to stay in business. I know the tickling audience is smaller than the mainstream. I know that this is a "specialty" field, which warrants somewhat higher prices than mainstream media. And I know someone would be complaining no matter what the price, but I don't feel out of place stating that price gouging in some instances has gone a shade far.

I'd like to hear any opinions -- especially those of media suppliers. Can MTJ really gain subscribers with prices so high? Is that why prices are so high -- because there are no subscribers and they still have to pay artist and writer fees?


Lemme hear from ya, folks!

Madman

 

[Myriads]

You've answered the question in your own post:

I know the tickling audience is smaller than the mainstream. I know that this is a "specialty" field, which warrants somewhat higher prices than mainstream media.

The costs have to be spread out over a smaller (a MUCH smaller) market. That means fetish videos/publications will carry a higher cost. No way around it.

Models, artists, writers, and distribution costs the same for the fetish folks as it does for the mainstream adult video folks. These fixed costs can't be escaped. So they have to be passed on in the form of higher prices to the smaller market. To charge less would mean a loss, as base costs couldn't be recovered.

Myriads

 

[P.H. Tickler]

it's all about the benjamins...

I like tickling, but don't buy videos. Its more fun to do in r/l and with the great info superhighway brimming with new sources everyday, why pay for what you can usually get for free? (I was already r/l tickling when I discovered I wasn't alone in my inerests via the great WWW back in '94)
That being said, I have always wondered something.. why do video companies retire films? the tickling group is small, of course, but the occasional stragglers eventually fall in. Just because the current group of consumers may all have a title, doesn't mean that 5 years later, a new group of tickle enthusiasts wouldn't mind buying a classic... it would be new to them! Considering what a low-volume business it must be compared to a mainstream video manufacturer, limited runs couldn't be THAT cost prohibitive, could they?
just a thought
😎

 

[SuperTickler]

Remembrance Of Things Past...

I remember when I bought my first (pre-owned) tickling video, CalStar's "Fickle Finger Of Fate," in '94 for about $60 from a porn store. I couldn't believe that there was actually a one-hour video of pretty, bound women being tickle-tortured, and literally watched it over and over again all night!

Today, there are many producers, and prices have come down to the $25-$40 range for better material. I think we sometimes take the existance of this media for granted. "Expensive" is a relative term...we should be grateful for what we have! 😎

 

[tklxprt]

Re: it's all about the benjamins...

I like tickling, but don't buy videos. Its more fun to do in r/l and with the great info superhighway brimming with new sources everyday, why pay for what you can usually get for free?

its this kind of mentality that drives fetish video prices higher these days.

"i'm so cool. i do real life tickling. i am above the rest of you who buy videos. i beg and search and mooch for free clips and stuff instead of supporting the producers who make what i like."

and then you ask why some of the companies retire old videos? what do you care? you dont buy them anyway right? i hate seeing this attitude on the internet.

 

[pope11]

Once Upon a Time

It wasn't that long ago that tickling videos would be selling for $60 and upwards. It's very refreshing that we now have available some good material out there, for what I consider, bargain prices. The community is fortunate to have some companies out there (Magic Touch, TC videos and Paradise Vision, to name a few) who are putting out some good material. $40 is a pretty good bargain. Now can we discuss the price of cigarettes and a shot of whiskey....

 

[Oblesklk]

Myriads hit the nail on the head - the point you made in your post, Madman. There just isn't much of a market for niche tickling materials, compared with other more generic forms of entertainment.

I'm opening up my own small tickling comic publishing company this spring/summer, so I've been researching the industry quite a bit this past year. There just isn't any advantage to having print runs of less than 1000. And yet, having print runs larger than 1000 for a tickling comic is kind of ridiculous at this point. Even if I charged a buck for each issue, I doubt I could sell that many. So the problem is that the market is pretty small. In order to widen appeal, you'd have to sacrifice content (i.e. put in a lot more general sexual content that has nothing to do with tickling) in order to appeal to a wider audience...and at that point, you're no longer a tickle comic, but just another drop in the "general adult oriented" bucket.

Hope this helps!

 

[MTJpub]

THE TRIALS & TRIBULATIONS OF A TICKLING MEDIA PUBLISHER

PRINT PUBLICATIONS

After nearly three years of publishing "Tales from the Asylum" magazine. Not a single issue has yet to pay for itself by the sales from the subscriber base alone. The revenue generated for a new issue release usually is between ten to thirty percent below the actual cost of producing the issue.

In the early days we survived simply because subscription holders paid anywhere from 3 months to 1 year in advance. These multiple issue sales allowed us to pay for the current issue of TFTA and possibly half of the following issue. Through back issue sales and aggressively seeking retail stores that would carry our magazine we managed to barely cover the cost of publishing from issue to issue. While this becomes easier over time due to a large inventory of back issues for sale, other factors such as periodic printing, postal, and general business expense increases usually erode any ground gained.

I can honestly say that during the first two years of publication of TFTA we were lucky to break even and considered that achievement a great success. The end of 2001 was so bad for us that the e-publication business is the only reason we survived.

"LOWER THE PRICES!" The hue and cry of every retail manager that is having a bad sales month and every consumer with a desire for a custom made sports car but wants to pay the price of a stock, compact economy car.

In a genre as specific and focused as ours. Lowering prices only results in less revenue. Even drastic price reduction result in very meager sale increases and dramatic loss in revenue due to poor profit.

EXAMPLE: I ran a sale during the first year we were publishing TFTA. I offered the first issue of "Tales from the Asylum" for only $2.00 to cover the cost of shipping & handling. I ran this sale for one month and advertised in all the known internet tickling forums and sites. The end result was just over one dozen sold..

What makes this matter worst is just prior to the publication of TFTA I published a FREE monthly E-Zine {Morandilas's Ticklers Journal}that had a subscriber base of 600 + fans of the genre. So we knew that the interest in what we do was there. However less then 10% of the audience at the time had made the transition to the commercial publication. Even when offered the magazine at the $2.00 rate very few of them seized the opportunity.

Just last week I offered three back issues of TFTA for $25.00 {$42.00 value} Just over 40% savings off the current retail price of the three magazines being offered. We received three sales. This is a fairly typical response and in the last three years I have a mountain of statistics that show that we only dig ourselves into a deeper hole when we reduce prices on our products. So now our sales are designed to give potential customers a taste of what we do at a discount and perhaps win them over with our content.

E-PUBLICATIONS

In order to make e-publications worth the time and effort that the writers and artists invest in producing these products, we need to charge appropriately. The target audience is very small. Lowering prices increase sales by a very small margin and decrease profit dramatically. Even the most successful of the current e-publications are just within the boundaries of being worth the effort.

Tickling fiction, art, and comics have an even smaller audience than the tickling video market. This genre is a specialty. We design products with very specific audience tastes in mind. This is one notch below ordering a custom piece of art or literature for yourself and in that respect much cheaper.


CLOSING COMMENTS

How many of you spent $5.00 for a three page story or four paragraph letter in an adult magazine in your pursuit for anything tickling related. I remember paying $60.00 for my first 30 minute tickling video.

I always find it funny when someone will make the comparison that the latest "Star Wars" video {A multimillion dollar production} can be purchased at their local video store for $10.00 and can't understand why a tickling video company needs to charge $40.00 plus shipping. The absurdness of the comparison strikes closer to home when tickling fetish publications are expected to compete in price with the likes of Marvel & DC comics. A consumer base in the low hundreds VS Hundreds of thousands of sales if not more.

I personally spend on average 40-50 hours per week running MTJ Publishing. I am only able to do this thanks to my incredible wife that pulls in enough income for the both of us and stands behind me 110% with this enterprise.

MTJ Publishing has yet to generate enough profit to even match the equivalent of a 40 hour, minimum wage job.

The vast majority of our talent has been pulled from the ranks of the tickling community. Many of them have been, and currently are major contributors that have entertained you with the artwork and fiction through the years. They work very hard and long hours to produce the materials that we make available.

Our new line of e-publications offer MTJ Publishing and it's large staff of talented writers and artists to continue doing what we enjoy and allows us a rare chance to benefit from all of our hard work {They also pay the bills}. It is this force that will allow us to pursue our deep commitment and love for the genre for many years to come.

I can go on forever on this subject because few people realize just how tough it is to survive in this tiny market. The effort, expense, and stress can sometimes be overwhelming.

It absolutely pains me when a popular tickling community authors or artist branches out and tries to make a few dollars for their hours of hard work and they are often let down by the very people that praise them and cheer them on when they display one of their works for FREE. However there is no shortage of personal requests that besiege these talented folks.

Check out the MTJ Publishing site. Take our "Virtual Magazine Tour," visit "The Nylon Dungeon," view our "TFTA Previews," or go on a trip to the "Morandilas's Ticklers Retreat." All of this brought to you at the expense of MTJ Publishing and represents thousands of dollars of commissioned art & stories and only scratches the surface of the FREE entertainment we have provided for years. Despite it all, someone will absorb every ounce of it and say" $12.00 is too much to spend for an e-comic....Oh and before I forget when is your next site update?"

Only the support of our die hard fans has made any of this possible. We appreciate those of you that recognize the value of our service and support all that we do with your purchases. Each of you have played a much larger role in keeping us in business than you can possibly ever imagine.

Thank you for your support!

Morandilas
MTJ Publishing
http://www.mtjpub.com

BTW- It is not uncommon for me to be venting to the artists & writers at MTJ Publishing about the frequent misconception that "MTJ Publishing" and tickling vendors in general our mega-powerful corporations just cleaning up in this business...

The artist "ShanE" humorous interpretation of the MTJ Publishing empire.

 

[Dave2112]

Great Pic! Funny as hell.

He's right on every count. I can't speak from MTJ's wealth of experience, only my own. The most ambitious project I've done to date has been "The Malachi Diaries", which sold rather well in the realm of our fetish. However, with the abominable amount of time I spent on it and the amount sold...it broke down to about $1.50 an hour.

No one's getting rich off of this, not producers, publishers, artists or writers. Most of what we do is in the spirit of community. We're still in the infancy stages of tickling entertainment here, and the pioneers are...well...pioneering.😀

 

[Dr|zzt]

i find the prices farier than ever now-a-days. and the qulaity top notch.

and the only reason i havent purchased a video in the past is because most of the Fideo companies (TC + MTP) only take credit cards and not Switch.

aaaH the curses of being british! lol

Dr

 

[TicklingDuo]

OK, I guess I'll chime in now. I've written for MTJ. I've purchased videos from Jeff. AND, we sell a few videos of our own. To say the least, I'm impressed by the amount of work that goes into things. When I write a story, it's generally just for fun. So, I don't expect to bring in much money...and haven't. When we made our own videos, again, it was just for fun. So, we weren't concerned about what we did or didn't sell. It isn't a big deal.

BUT...we were doing things just for fun and not as a business. Those for whom this has become a business have much more overhead to think about than I do. They have printing costs and equipment to purchase. All I have to buy are blank tapes to copy our videos. They're fun. But, they definitely are not professional productions. I don't purchase a lot of material...partly because I prefer live action and partly because I don't have any money to buy it with. But, overall, I feel the majority of those out there have fair prices for a decent product.

Ann

 

[Madman]

Thanks to all respondents -- especially Morandilas of MTJ... I thought it would be difficult to make a profit with the current state of affairs, but I suppose I was too certain that there was something that could be shifted in the business dynamics to allow for greater profitability at lower prices... Certainly, I by no means believed MTJ to be a multi-million dollar corporation, and granted, my comparisons were perhaps off-balance, but coming from a bit of a background in indy comics (another niche market)... I don't know... There must be something that can be done to inspire sales... But then, tickling is not just a simple niche market, I suppose... "tickling e-comics"... hmmm... Comics are a generally maligned medium, making them "niche". Indy comics are a niche of that niche, e-comics are only a fraction of that, and tickling e-comics only a fraction of that. You have a niche market to the fourth power. It is indeed a wonder you broke even -- particularly given the wealth of free material in competition... This is somewhat disheartening. If I come up with any revenue generating ideas, I'll let you know. Thanks again!

Madman

 

[Dr|zzt]

nice post mate, glad to hear you are ok with it...

Dr

 

[mabus]

I'll help...

"I know the tickling audience is smaller than the mainstream. I know that this is a "specialty" field, which warrants somewhat higher prices than mainstream media. "

Why don't you expand your market, as I have mentioned before? Include other things that may bring in newer customers, or that they will buy the video for, and hopefully expand your base?

Okay, a few got angry and said "huh, I don't want no hour of shoe dangling or walking around, I want's some tickling! Dammit!" Yeah, okay, whatever. I agree, the main part should be tickling, but you must realize, that is ONE market. People who like tickling and are members of THIS community will buy it. That's it. here are people who like a woman simply sitting with her knees bent, or with sandals on, and some of these people also like tickling, but don't know about or frequent this forum, and don't even know Magic Touch or RealTickling exists.

Here's my idea. You make about an hour video, starting with a lot of other fetish related interests that ticklers might enjoy, and that would attract new customers. Then you make the main part tickling. And to those who are so uptight about their videos that they must only see tickling and nothing else! You'll be sent instructions on how to use the fast forward button on your remote. You advertise it in a lot of places. Then you hope for more sales.

If you don't get any more sales, your regular customers will buy it anyway, so it's not like you'll lose. And hopefully, you'll stop breaking even and make a good profit. If not, well, you tried something different, and it didn't get a response. BUT, you will still have your regulars buying, don't forget.

Now, I know where a lot of these groups and sites are, I can make a list and send it to you. I know what a lot of these things are, so I can write you a script or list of details and you can fill in the words. I have directorial skills, so it can be a detailed script full of camera placement and minor technical details (that apply to video camera's, don't worry, it won't be complicated, but it will have impact) I can't do videos because I live in the bible belt, everyone thinks we're all going to hell and Osama bin Laden attacked the USA because we have abortion and premarital sex, come on. But I can send you some of my knowledge and ideas and let you run with them. I can steer you in the direction of new advertising outlets on the web. Or I'll advertise for you.

FootParadise claims they are the best company around, and I say don't rant against them, challenge them and beat them. Do they make a profit, I wonder? Who knows, they may. They add a lot of little subtle extras like that to their videos, but I say, just do BETTER than them. Let me know:

[email protected]

P.S. That goes for RealTickling and any other video company that wants any ideas. I just want some good new videos to watch....

 

[UnclStevel]

uummm

Until I found some of the online producers here, I bought CalStar and Vidtech flicks at the local porn shop for $69.99. Most online producers are charging almost half that, and the quality is MUCH better. I'd say they provide a great value.

Steve

 

[BellaRisa]

Non-tickling in tickling vids

Hi there,

I'm Bella. I have a teeny vid company, BellaRisa Productions, that I started a few years ago. I've only done five so far (then I took time off to have a baby) but I learned quite a bit in the time I was producing, that I'll use when I start up again.

You're only as good as your last video. Customers, even loyal ones who love you, don't want to spend even a nickel on material in which they have no interest. The point, for most, of buying a fetish video is to kick back and indulge in their specific proclivity for a while. Even closely related material is annoying, if they have to weed through it to get to what they want to see. Case in point: I also have a love of spanking, and my all time favorite video company no longer gets my money because they've started mixing in enemas and anal play. What I want to see is still there, but I have to fast forward through material I find boring to get to it. That makes me reluctant to support them, as they're no longer dedicated to my interests. In my experience tickling enthusiasts are picky, they don't even want too much upper body in a foot tickling vid or the other way 'round. Add some shoe dangling or other non-tickling when that's not what they wanted, and some will praise you but there will be a LOT of letter bombs, I suspect.

I'd like to hear what other producers and customers have to say, this is all just my experience

BellaRisa

😎

 

[kurchatovium]

UncleStevel is right, until online producers came along I was paying $60-80 in adult book stores for tickling videos from Cal Star and Prestige. These videos were not even as good as the stuff that Magic Touch, Real tickling, FM concepts, etc. are offering now and their prices are much lower. As for magazines I was paying as much as $20 for a "Tied and Tickled" magazine which was OK but still not that great. MTJpub offers a ton of goodies in the magazine/comic genre in the $10-20 range which is a darn good bargain as far as I'm concerned. The point is there are a lot more choices we have now than we did before. Where before you had to go to some sleezy smoke filled porn shop and hope to find any tickle related materials in there. Now you can shop at home on the internet and get a lot of good stuff.

 

[mabus]

online directing...?😎

I'm not talking about adding anal play, or things of that nature. I mean, you can make a video with many SUBTLE fetishes that you would not even realize are out there. There are TWO egroups that have hundreds of members merely for crossed legs!

Okay, I have directing skill. I can't make a video because I'm surrounded by conservative christians here in Louisiana and would have to give up everything and everyone I know to go experiment in California somewhere...my friends would think I'm wierd and I'd end up broke and talking to my couch everyday...maybe not.

I will write a short story, that will mostly be camera placement and storyboards, and even a few puns! This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Basically, you light the room real well. You place the camera on a tripod, and maybe even have a small portable light. (The more light, the better picture quality..but not TOO much light.) The biggest problem with video work is not enough light. You get a dark grainy picture. The companies nowadays seem to have successfully tackled that problem, so congradulations! But I still see some dark grainy videos out there.

Whoever wants to try it, can. I would love to see
"Directed by Mabus"
in the credits, but just having a good video would be nice.

I will, at the same time, make a list of places you can advertise that will bring in new customers. I will send the list to whoever wants to try the storyboards, or I will just post them if a few try.

Send some example pics, guide them to your site, and let fate take it's course. If it works out, I'll write another one.

 

[BellaRisa]

Hi Mabus,

I understood that you meant subtle, closely related fetish material. And it could very well be a great tactic to up sales. My gut feeling, though, is that connoisseurs of either interest would feel that they were being cheated when their 'thing' wasn't onscreen. I have a friend who gets paid to make vids of herself walking around in high heels and stockings, when she tries to other things she always ends up hearing about it. A crossed-legs enthusiast would likely feel cheated if the 'meat' of a video they'd ordered was tickling, and vice-versa. I dunno, I've just noticed that people like to buy what they feel was produced to please them specifically. It's a validation of sorts <"yeah, somebody FINALLY understands me!!">. But again, go for it, it could be very successful-it's a seriously varied world out there, and I'm wrong a lot 🙂.

Meanwhile, you seem to really want to create material yourself. I highly suggest getting a vid cam and trying it. No one will do it the way you would, that's why some of us started in the first place <g>. If you can get a P.O. box and find subjects from a neighboring area, anonymity is actually very easy to maintain, even under conservative conditions (trust me on that one, my vanilla business and my video company never EVER mix). If the Tickler in Black can do it, I bet you can 🙂

Bella

 

[Phineas]

you know, a while back I ran some numbers by my wife (who's an accountant) on this topic. Before I hit on the idea to do a video game I wanted to make my own video business, mainly because every video I own has some grating annoyance that keeps me from fully enjoying it (three from FM and one from Foot Paradise), and also because I imagine it would be fun. 🙂 My business model was sound, apparently; I couldn't understand why the folks who had the businesses already were claiming their expenses were so high. In fact, I had figured out how to handle a niche demand (Asian models) for cheaper than it would take for folks over here to get one model for a single session(I've heard quotes of hundreds of dollars per hour), and could probably get away with only charging $20 a tape.

I'd share, but my situation is unique and I doubt this would apply to everybody. It would have worked out beautifully for me, though. (And it still may, who knows 🙂)

Anyway, my point is, I don't feel the vid makers are charging too much, and overall I've been happy with my purchases, but there's *always* a different way to do things, and if you re-evaluate your processes, you may just find an answer to cutting your production costs that make everybody happy in the long run.

 

[tklxprt]

phineas? you only own 4 videos from fm and paradise? no wonder you are not happy with the prices. try the other companies. your doing a disservice to yourself by not trying mtj and tc's videos. those 2 are the best around.

 

[mabus]

Why not hire cheaper models?

What is the biggest cost of producing a video? The cost of the model? Why not just hire a cheaper model? Why not ask a friend, or a friend of a friend? Say you'll pay them $30 an hour, or $50. Or less... I keep this "hundreds of dollars an hour.." and keep seeing some videos, many videos, where I'm not seeing "hundreds of dollars an hour" worth of performance. FM for example, where some models look bored, or like "what the hell am I doing, where's my check?" I mean, you can go into all the talk about "the performance," or "this tickling is harder than you think.." But I'm thinking, I scrubbed floors, and did dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I pushed baskets in cold rain while the customers tried to run me over for $5 AN HOUR! These girls really aren't asked to do that much, the talk that modeling is strenous, ..it just doesn't hold water. To be offered hundreds of dollars an hour, to put on pantyhose and walk around, or put on a dress, or get tickled, or to tickle...come on.

A trend I see many companies always aim for, (RealTickling is trying right now, actually...) is to get a "model," "Star." They keep aiming for higher and higher models. This girl is a model. here's a better model. Here's a Playboy model! Here's an actress! Here's another better actress! I only care if they are ticklish. With that in mind, and to add on to that earlier thread about guys wanting to tickle beautiful girls, and what makes a girl beautiful...I've met plenty of girls in my life, a whole lot, who are DAMN pretty. They will never make it on the runway, because runway girls all look a certain way, as do guys who fashion runway clothes or magazine clothes. They need a certain look, and you could be stunning, but not have that specific "look." Get about 50 pictures of runway models, lay them side by side, and you will notice a distinct pattern. That being said, just get the average, yet beautiful girl next door who isn't a registered model for Vogue. There are millions of beautiful women out there. Is there some rule where you have to pay them a certain amount, like unions?

I'd think the best deal would be offer them a percentage of sales. The better job they do, the more money they get. The more work they do, the better the video looks, the more people will buy it. Then maybe the companies would start coming out ahead. Many really small independant films do that, the actors work for free, or for a meal, and if the movie fails, oh well, they had fun, they got to play around and laugh. If the movie makes it, they get money. That's something to consider.

Maybe an assembly line process might work too. I noticed FM does that. They update their sites daily. They will take two models. Take each pictured bare feet. Then they will take pictures tickling each other. Then they will do foot worship. Then they will put on pantyhose. More tickling, worship, and individual pictures of each in pantyhose, taking shoes off while wearing hose, putting them on... Then they put socks on. All over again. They end up with 12 or more sets of pictures with two models in a short amount of time. That's something else to consider...