war on terror or terrorist war

[august spies]

there can be no US government led war on terror, mainly because its being waged by terrorists.

lets take a look at the players:

you have islamic terrorists like bin laden who have in the past(recent) forged strong alliances with the imperialist terrorists of the west (bush) some 8 billion dollars in arms were sent to some of the worst terrorists in afganhistan to fuel a brutal war in the 80s (actually arms were flowing before the war started)

you have domestic state terrorists like Saddam, who also has forged alliances with the terrorists of the west (bush again) whom provided saddam with chemical and biological weapons, as well as moral support for using them against civilians in 1988.

these two are examples of blowback (us supported terrorists turning against the us)

Then you have the loyal terrorists like the dictators of latin and south america who were supported and in some cases created by the terrorists to the north(bush, reagan, carter, eisenhower, etc....)
death toll to civilians: 1,000,000+ (ironic side note: on 9/11 1973 nixon and kissinger launched a military coup in chile against its democracy creating 17 years of military dictatorship. death toll to civilians 5,000, 200,000 cases of torture and rape by the military government)

Then you have some left wing guerilla groups, who also can committ acts of terrorism, such as the FARC in colomiba. a scholar compared the victims of state terror to the victims or non state terror, and it was 10,000 to 1. but it seems bush only wants us to focus on the one and not the 10,000

then you have the major imperialist terrorists,mainly bush and blair. they arm and create some of the worst terrorists known to man, spend 500+ billion on weapons and ship them around the world, make millions off of third world debt, extract most of the souths resources by force(hence the terrorism) Yes most of the worlds resources are in the southern hemisphere, but the people are poor. (think)

Then you have the non terrorists, such as left wing political movements, human rights workers, environmentalists, unionists (who bascially bore the brunt of the state terror. these are the people out working for a better world, and they are risking their lives doing it

whos side are you on?

 

[ShiningIce]

Well I believe another liberal has joined the fray.

 

[Biggles of 266]

ya think? 😛 Nice to see ya August.

Biggles

 

[amk714]

August spies, your post is quite interesting. I sympathize with your way of thinking, even though I'm not against war with Iraq, but may I ask where you got your information? Thanks. 🙂

 

[august spies]

sure what specific information, and no im not a liberal

 

[asutickler]

I think Alexander means the sources for the "facts" sited in your post, such as the Bush-Bin Laden connection, the US's "support" of the use of chemical weapons on civilians, all of these alleged puppet governments in South America, what sort of "scholar" (and I use the term loosely) claims to have come up with an accurate measure of state vs. non-state terror, and whatever proof you have that Bush and Blair "arm and create some of the worst terrorists known to man" and "extract most of the souths resources by force."


As for the part about "left wing political movements, human rights workers, environmentalists, (and) unionists" all being "heroes..." Well, I think everyone knows politicized hyperbole when they hear it... 🙄

 

[amk714]

This is the one I'm most interested in:

Then you have some left wing guerilla groups, who also can committ acts of terrorism, such as the FARC in colomiba. a scholar compared the victims of state terror to the victims or non state terror, and it was 10,000 to 1. but it seems bush only wants us to focus on the one and not the 10,000

I would like to see the source of this very much. Thank you! 🙂

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

The one being Saddam... well then great idea. Let's get him out of there and into a casket!!!

That seems to be the only answer left!

 

[Iggy pop]

One man's terroist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

[Moses25]

One man's terroist is another man's freedom fighter.

Very true, IP, very, very true.

You need to post that in the Quotes thread.

Best pearl of wisdom I've seen on this board in quite a while...


Cheers.😀

 

[august spies]

well if we just take the microcosim of colombia which has an active left wing group which committs acts of terror, they are rougly responsible for a little less than 20% of the country's overall terrorism. the rest are committed by the army and an overwhelming majority is committed by the right wing paramilitaries (which are basically the army also) which are armed and supported by the us.
colombia has one of the lower death rates regarding terrorism in the region.

in guatamala 200,000 people were killed (mostly indigenous maya), there was armed resistence from the left. human rights watch blames the right wing for 96% of the nations terrorism

however most countries do not have left wing groups that committ terrorism. so if we look at one of the largest bush orchastrated slaughters, the invasion of east timor, from 1975-79 they just killed 200,000 people (oppression and murder continued until 99)

the state terror figure of 1000 to one, i dont remember exactly where it came from, but i think it was eqbal ahmed, but you can see including all state terror how easy it would be to calculate a number like that.

in regards to iraq the history of us support for iraq/iran terrorism goes way back. the cia coup which ended irans democracy in 1953 brought the dictator shah to power, a major terrorist(armed and supported by the us for almost 30 years dictatorial terror) who killed 1000s of people(mostly innocent leftists) this is why in 79 when he was finally overthrown the fumdamentalists were in power and were pissed at the us.

in 62 possibly 63. there was a similar coup in iraq which paved the way for the baath(saddams party) to grab power. in the early 80s shipments of arms including chemical and biological weapons were sent(this is well known) the support for the use of these weapons i was refering to was the 1988 gas attack against the kurdish city of halabja. to be fair actually one senator (inoue of hawaii D) questioned are continueing support for hussien after this, and he was quickly sileced by bush.

the answer to the problem regarding this sitution is not to stand with saddam or bush, you have to remeber they are the same kind of person, just because they turned on each other doesnt make their crimes go away.

ps. there is no connection between any of this countries internal freedoms and its external behavoir, one you understand this point, you will understand us foriegn policy much better.