What is your spiritual orientation/ultimate concern?

[SantaFeSwitch]

What is your current spiritual orientation/belief system or what do you currently take to be of ultimate concern?

There are any number of ways to categorize these things. These are the broadest general categories to try to be as inclusive as possible:


Early pagan magical beliefs/Mother Earth/Goddess energy/female deities/matriarchal or matrifocal/descending/immanent/agape/premodern/magical/nature mysticism; Consciousness and will as intuited in 3rd-person 'it' terms as Earth, Nature, Life, Animals, Body, Fertility, Fecundity, Feeling, Form, Senses, Sensuality, Sexuality (the divine as Nature or animal spirits) for example, traditional wicca, witchcraft, witch doctors, shamanism, voodoo, faith healing, astrology, fetish dolls, word magic, sex magic, etc.


Traditional exoteric religions/God the Father/male-only deities/patriarchal/ascending/ascetic/transcendent/eros/conventional morality/Truth/Goodness/Faith/Hope/Charity/ conformist/mythic-membership/premodern/metaphysical/absolutistic/other worldly/afterlife/deity mysticism "religious but not magical" no magic, no 'idols' or 'engraven images;' Consciousness and will as intuited in 2nd-person 'you' terms as a great 'thou' or male Deity like God the Father, Jesus Christ, The Buddha--a loving consciousness you can talk to/pray to and have a personal relationship with (the divine as God/God's will/revealed laws of God) for example, Christians who go to mass/church for prayer and worship, Orthodox Judaism, orthodox Christianity, Gnostic Christianity, Islam, Theravadan Buddhism, traditional caste Hinduism, Yogachara


Neopagan scientific theories/mother Nature/feminism/modern/metaphysical/absolutistic/ descending/immanent/individualistic/Senses/Reason/Logic/rational/traditional western psychology/agape/ Enlightenment era classical science/Descartes/Newton/Locke/Freud/Bertrand Russell/this worldly/nature mysticism "scientific but not religious" no myths, myth-busting; Consciousness as intuited in 3rd-person 'it' terms as a scientifically understood Earth, Nature, Gaia, Life, Body, Beauty, Form, Senses, Sensuality, Sexuality, Pleasure (the cosmos/universe is the ultimate or of ultimate concern/discoverable laws of nature/laws of physics); belief in empiricism, faith in science, scienticism; for example, deism, pantheism, secular humanism, scientific materialism, agnosticism, atheism, hedonism, Reform Judaism; most classical empirical scientists and physicians and some philosophers & writers are in this category; this is the center of gravity in modern western culture today


Neospiritual esoteric practices/ascending/transcendent/eros/meditation/contemplation/pure consciousness/nirvikalpa perception/postmodern/postmetaphysical/epistemological/relativistic/ pluralistic/communitarian/developmental & humanistic psychology/ experiential/transrational/intuition/creativity Jung/Heisenberg/Schroedinger/Planck/Einstein/ archetypal or causal formless mysticism "spiritual but not religious" no attachments to religious or scientific metaphysical beliefs; Consciousness as intuited in 1st-person 'I' terms as the interior consciousness of every sentient being separately and/or collectively; practices for awakening/developing 'Buddha Consciousness' or 'Christ consciousness' in oneself (the divine is within, consciousness is not projected 'out there' as a deity or as nature) for example, meditation, yoga, many martial arts, 'Course in Miracles,' Marianne Williamson, Blake, Thoreau, Emerson, contemplative Christianity, Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah), Sufism, Mahayana Buddhism, some Zen lineages, panentheism, most Buddhists, most Yogis, most quantum physicists & systems scientists, most philosophers, and many artists & writers are in this category


Nondual/integral/tantric practices/the nondual union of consciousness & manifestation, emptiness & form, heaven & earth, masculine & feminine energies, eros & agape love/transpersonal & integral psychology/integrative/holistic/Sri Aurobindo/Sri Ramana Maharshi/The Dalai Lama/Ken Wilber/nondual or tantric mysticism or 'one taste' "spiritual and sensual" no exclusions or repressions--no aspect of experience or reality is denied or repressed so that ascending and descending currents circulate freely and fully throughout the entire bodymind and couple; sacred sexuality; a 4th-person perspective on consciousness: 1st-, 2nd-, & 3rd-person perspectives on consciousness are all honored as legitimate ways people experience reality; bifurcating dualisms such as 'interior consciousness' & 'exterior form,' spiritual & natural, soul & body, religion & science, conservative & liberal, eros & agape, yin & yang, etc. are dissolved in nondual awareness of one reality with complementary aspects; radically inclusive; for example Tantra Yoga, Integral Yoga, Taoism, Advaita Vedanta, Tibetan Buddhism, Genpo Roshi, nondual Zen lineages


For the difference between traditional exoteric religions (metaphysical beliefs) and esoteric spiritual practices (practical applications), see: spiritual practice

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

For a broader poll regarding overall worldviews including their political as well as spiritual dimensions check this one out:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?p=2303214#post2303214

 

[c7_assassin]

Whoa, dude...You're including atheism and wicca in the same category? I only know as much about wicca as I learned from listening to stoned idiot high-school girls years ago who wanted to be witches, but it didn't sound like anything more "rational" than ouija boards and tarot cards to me.

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

Whoa, dude...You're including atheism and wicca in the same category? I only know as much about wicca as I learned from listening to stoned idiot high-school girls years ago who wanted to be witches, but it didn't sound like anything more "rational" than ouija boards and tarot cards to me.

Yea, I know but what they both have in common is a neopagan descending immanent orientation towards the natural world: earth, nature, natural laws discovered thru reason and rationality rather than divine revelation as with the traditional religions, and with making the most of this life now, rather than seeing this life as merely a runway for the afterlife of the ascending/transcending orientations.

Wicca is difficult because it spans early pagan and neopagan. I think most real wiccans would say wicca is much more sophisticated than the high-school girls you're talking about--that version of wicca is more along the lines of early pagan witchcraft.

I'll go back and edit the descriptions to make that distinction. Thanks!

These are broad, loose categories and I've attempted to be radically inclusive. There are any number of ways to categorize these things and any way you do so is going to piss someone off...so please try not to be offended by the way I've categorized them, I've tried to it in a way that honors everyones' beliefs, a very difficult thing to do. It's somewhat arbitrary...these are just cognitive constructs we use to understand these things...

Keep in mind Godel's incompleteness theorems: a system can either be inclusively complete or internally consistent but not both; so I'm erring on the side of inclusiveness/completeness which means the categories may not be totally internally coherent by having to lump so many belief systems into a few categories. The alternative is to have pure precise consistent categories by excluding those that don't fit well...so just choose the closest category.

And don't shoot the messenger, I didn't invent any of these! ;-)

 

[DanishTickling]

I'm agnostic, so voted Neopagan

 

[The Last Laugh]

I still don't understand how atheism and agnosticism fit in the "Neopagan" category. I'm an atheist myself (possibly bordering on agnostic), but I can't bring myself to vote for the category in which my beliefs are included. So I'm afraid I can't participate.

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

I still don't understand how atheism and agnosticism fit in the "Neopagan" category. I'm an atheist myself (possibly bordering on agnostic), but I can't bring myself to vote for the category in which my beliefs are included. So I'm afraid I can't participate.

Because this is where the belief systems of atheism and agnosticism fall historically and developmentally in the evolution of human belief systems. Incidentally, my family is in that neopaganism category--my mom is atheist, dad and brother both agnostic and I was agnostic most of my life. We were raised as secular humanists and my mother is quite religious about her atheistic beliefs.

 

[AmandaBear]

Well, considering I relate more to Christian mysticism (from ppl such as Theresa of Avila, Julian of Norwich, as well as a few Sufi mystics), I really don't know if I should pick "traditional religions" or "neospiritual practices" because my Christian faith tends to be more spiritual than religious. I don't even belong to a church...lol

 

[Papabear]

I belong and go to a church regularly but that is to satisfy my personal spirit. Your faith is what's important to God Amanda not that you share it with others necessarily. One major problem with religions is that they tell you that you have to belong to worship God. They forget that the Bible tells us to get to the Father you must go through the Son, not the mortal leaders of a church.

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

Well, considering I relate more to Christian mysticism (from ppl such as Theresa of Avila, Julian of Norwich, as well as a few Sufi mystics), I really don't know if I should pick "traditional religions" or "neospiritual practices" because my Christian faith tends to be more spiritual than religious. I don't even belong to a church...lol

Sounds like "spiritual but not religious" to me since you don't belong to a church and are into Christian mysticism and St. Theresa! Those who are "religious but not spiritual" wouldn't ordinarily use the word 'mysticism' to describe their own orientation...

Who is Julian of Norwich?

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

By the way, the broad term 'paganism' is a derogatory term only to ascenders; among descenders it's a beautiful noble term, just as the term 'religion' is derogatory to descenders yet noble to ascenders.

Interestingly, ascenders and descenders have been at each others' throats for some three thousand years because each is the other's idea of sin. From a nondual perspective they're just two sides of the same coin.

 

[AmandaBear]

Sounds like "spiritual but not religious" to me since you don't belong to a church and are into Christian mysticism and St. Theresa! Those who are "religious but not spiritual" wouldn't ordinarily use the word 'mysticism' to describe their own orientation...

Who is Julian of Norwich?

Yeah, the thing is that I see the trappings of religious institutions, but at the same time I would like to join a church. I just have to find one that's open and affirming towards LGBT folk. The Unitarian Universalist churches/assemblies look intriguing...as well as the United Church of Christ. 😀 I love how the UUs welcome ppl of all beliefs into the assembly and allow each person to follow their own path towards truth/enlightenment. I think their worship services tend to combine many things from all different kinds of religions. :

Oh, Julian or Norwich was awesome! Here's the wiki article of her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_of_Norwich

I also adore the Sufi mystic, Rumi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

Yeah, the thing is that I see the trappings of religious institutions, but at the same time I would like to join a church. I just have to find one that's open and affirming towards LGBT folk. The Unitarian Universalist churches/assemblies look intriguing...as well as the United Church of Christ. 😀 I love how the UUs welcome ppl of all beliefs into the assembly and allow each person to follow their own path towards truth/enlightenment. I think their worship services tend to combine many things from all different kinds of religions. :

Oh, Julian or Norwich was awesome! Here's the wiki article of her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_of_Norwich

I also adore the Sufi mystic, Rumi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi

I would think UU would be the most tolerant among the Christian denominations. Thanks for the link about Julian of Norwich, I'll check it out.

I love Rumi too. My favorite Rumi quote: "Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it."

Do you like Meister Eckhart?

 

[DamselAdmirer]

I chose the broad "neopagan" category.

 

[AmandaBear]

I would think UU would be the most tolerant among the Christian denominations. Thanks for the link about Julian of Norwich, I'll check it out.

I love Rumi too. My favorite Rumi quote: "Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it."

Do you like Meister Eckhart?

Never heard of him. D:

That's a nice quote, though! 😀 One of my favorite poems by Rumi is this one:
I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.
I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.
I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.
With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation.
Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.
Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range.
I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court.
Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else.

It's also interesting how it mentions this about him on his wiki page: "For Rumi, religion was mostly a personal experience and not limited to logical arguments or perceptions of the senses."

That happens to be my own personal take on religion, as well. 8D Rumi is definitely one of the most profound theologians to have ever lived.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

pantheism is misplaced

the way you have set these lists up, pantheism should be with the early paganism, or even with the judeo-christian group.

steve

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

leaning on Schopenhauer

the way you have set these lists up, pantheism should be with the early paganism, or even with the judeo-christian group.

steve

Hi Steve,

You're right, like wicca pantheism spans both early pagan and neopagan (but doesn't fit well with the ascending religions so would disagree with you there); it had it's roots in the early pagan era (pre-axial age) but really flowered during the classical liberal Enlightenment and scientific revolution with Bruno, Spinoza, and Schelling. Many Enlightenment figures were pantheists and pandeists for the first time in history. The term 'pantheism' didn't even exist prior to 1705. So that's why I put it in the Enlightenment era neopagan classical science category.

Each and every one of these could probably be argued with, but these things are hard to pin down into neat tidy categories so I just use broad generalizations that might seem to make the most sense to the most number of people and then beg for the mercy of the reader...

"On the whole, one might be surprised that even in the seventeenth century pantheism did not gain a complete victory over theism; for the most original, finest, and most thorough European expositions of it (none of them, of course, will bear comparison with the Upanishads of the Vedas) all came to light at that period, namely through Bruno, Malebranche, Spinoza, and Scotus Eriugena. After Scotus Eriugena had been lost and forgotten for many centuries, he was again discovered at Oxford and in 1681, thus four years after Spinoza's death, his work first saw the light in print. This seems to prove that the insight of individuals cannot make itself felt so long as the spirit of the age is not ripe to receive it. On the other hand, in our day (1851) pantheism, although presented only in Schelling's eclectic and confused revival thereof, has become the dominant mode of thought of scholars and even of educated people. This is because Kant had preceded it with his overthrow of theistic dogmatism and had cleared the way for it, whereby the spirit of the age was ready for it, just as a ploughed field is ready for the seed."
– Schopenhauer, Parerga and Paralipomena, Vol. I, "Sketch of a History of the Doctrine of the Ideal and the Real"

 

[playfuldude]

Traditional Christian here. I believe in God, and Jesus the Son of God. I don't however go to church, nor do I choose to subscribe to any individual that feels he is "more qualified" to stand in a pulpit and teach the people how to interact with, and worship God. Jesus taught us that we are to love one another just as we love ourselves and to seek a personal relationship with God. That personal relationship will help us grow in wisdom, character, and faith as we journey wiith Him thru life. He also tells us to not judge others. Thats His job, and all will be put to rest in His timing. That to me is the true essence of christianity. It's unfortunate that many modern day "ministers" choose to teach false doctrines. Great topic. Invokes much thought. Take care.

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

Never heard of him. D:

That's a nice quote, though! 😀 One of my favorite poems by Rumi is this one:
I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.
I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.
I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.
With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation.
Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.
Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range.
I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court.
Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else.

It's also interesting how it mentions this about him on his wiki page: "For Rumi, religion was mostly a personal experience and not limited to logical arguments or perceptions of the senses."

That happens to be my own personal take on religion, as well. 8D Rumi is definitely one of the most profound theologians to have ever lived.

Hey there Amanda, I didn't see your reply til just now. Well since you like St. Theresa of Avila you'd like Meister Eckhart too, one of the most respected of the Christian mystics!

 

[SantaFeSwitch]

Happy Easter everyone!