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Why don't the critics of TIB, Jeff, etc. start their own company?

mabus

1st Level Green Feather
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This question has been asked before to somewhat silence the critics, but now I'm seriously asking it. I mean, angry replies to threads get entertaining after a while, but isn't it about time to shut up and put your money where your mouth is? Or will these people always be long on complaints and short on answers?

My reason for not making tickle videos is simple: I'm in south Louisiana. Utterly surrounded by conservative christians and every other close minded "moral" racist klansman and bigot you can imagine. Starting a video company for me would mean saying "Bye bye" to my whole family and most of my friends. Is it worth it? Just to maybe break even? No. But I wouldn't get that far, of course. I can imagine when I walk into the tax assessors office for a business license for a tickle video comapny. If they don't arrest me right there, they'll tell me get the hell out of there. And if I did get a license, they're would be a constant stream of protesters and wannabe politicians after me for indecency. I doubt I'd get many applicants with all that, either.

That is why tickling will always be a secret for me. These people are too stupid to open their hate filled minds a crack. I ain't about to try and help them.

But that's me. From what I've read here, I'm just unlucky. Guys always write up about this girl or that girl they met who they got to tie and tickle, how their friends and family know they are into tickling and don't care or totally accept it, or are into tickling themselves. So, there's no need for worry in that department.

Now, the criticisms are basically, RealTickling sucks, Magic Touch sucks, everyone sucks, but them. But they won't start their own company. Dan2001 just started a thread earlier about what it takes to create a video, and a company, and Francois and Oblesklk and others replied, in great detail:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24519

So, there's a lot of information for you. Look, how many people out there, little poor ass young and old alike filmmakers make their own independant movies? Maybe that's what all you guys really want, a sort of "independant tickle movie," with a lot of cuts and story and plot and outfits. Well if these little nobodies can make feature length movies with a LOT more going on than just a guy on the bed tickling a girl, I mean, COME ON!

I know what you'll say: "Uhh, huh! I can't afford to start one, so there!"
Computers and camcorders are getting better and better and cheaper and cheaper. FM Concepts and Harmony Concepts shot all their earlier stuff on S-VHS. You can get Digital qality camcorders, far better than that and at or higher than the level that Jeff and Kathy used, for under a thousand dollars. A few lights can be bought at WalMart, or real studio lights off the internet and Ebay for cheap. A computer to edit it with, like, a Sony VAIO, can be purchased for around $1,000. Many now come with VHS output AND DVD writable drives already installed. A DVD writing drive alone is under $200.

"Huh, I don't have an money...so there."
Well, if you have many, many tickle videos (which you say suck anyway) sell them. Sell them on Ebay. (If you could afford to buy all those in the first palce....well, you should have enough money...) And besides, once you get the computer and camcorder, that's that. You buy one, once, and unless you need a two camera shoot, you never have to spend all that money again. You can find rolling dolly instructions and camera boom designs all over the internet, at many independant film sites, and these, which ae not being used in videos in the tickle world, cost less than $20 or $30 to make. And once they're made, again, you never have to make them again. Outfits, hell, every girl I know has twenty or thirty outfits. Goodwill has cheap clothes. Want a pantyhose video - $4 for nice ones, a few dollars for the everyday ones.

"I don't have anywhere to shoot, huh!"
Uhh, the guys who make independant films sure do find locations! Do what they do. You have a house? An apartment? Use that. A hotel room, an office after hours, there's a thousand more ideas.
You rent a hotel, you got a hallway, a desk, a chair, a bed. Paradise Vision sure finds a lot of locations, and supposedly they suck too, so there you go.

"I don't have any models..."
Uhh, since RealTickling is soon to be gone, ask their's. You have a pool of over 20 girls with them alone. Then there are Jeff's models, girls from colleges, ones who answer newspaper ads, friends, on and on. Look at ALL those models on teh net, who have their own webpage, like Jennifer Sinn, Amateur model Megan, Paula from Mrs. Mom, one and on (times about a thousand) Most do custom shoots. Lorelei was on here saying how Elise di Medici WANTED TO DO A TICKLING VIDEO! It seems no oe has even taken her up on the offer! With all the bragging about real life tickling I hear all the time, that shouldn't be a problem. Yes, many will say they'll help, but won't follow through. But come on, every low budget film director has that problem. If you get 59 "no's" and 7 "yes's" that's 7 videos. If the girls come back, like they did for RealTickling and Jeff, well, then that doubles or triples your video numbers.

And with Real Tickling gone, the biggest competitor, where's your competition? Yaqi? (What happened to that thread about him, where he insulted us all again? It was up a few days ago, but now it's gone! All he does is throw a girl, in a bikini, on a bed and tickles her. If he is right about himself, and he is the best of the best out there in the tickle world, well, huh, I have no doubt the critics can make better videos that that!) You can count the major tickling producers on one hand. And many of the companies that will be your competition only put a video out every year or so.

So, there you have it. Hopefully I've solved every excuse the people who criticize tickle companies, but are unable to produce their own videos, have made over the years. Now, one of two things will happen. Either there will be a flurry of new companies popping up, creating works of art and laughter not yet seen in the world of tickling, and this will be the golden age of tickling for all of us here.....or we'll hear more bitching and hollow excuses, and see that the complainers are all talk and no action.
 
mabus said:


My reason for not making tickle videos is simple: I'm in south Louisiana. Utterly surrounded by conservative christians and every other close minded "moral" racist klansman and bigot you can imagine. Starting a video company for me would mean saying "Bye bye" to my whole family and most of my friends. Is it worth it? Just to maybe break even? No. But I wouldn't get that far, of course. I can imagine when I walk into the tax assessors office for a business license for a tickle video comapny. If they don't arrest me right there, they'll tell me get the hell out of there. And if I did get a license, they're would be a constant stream of protesters and wannabe politicians after me for indecency. I doubt I'd get many applicants with all that, either.

That is why tickling will always be a secret for me. These people are too stupid to open their hate filled minds a crack.

Some of us aren't. I'm in southern Louisiana as well. I agree with you about there being ALOT of close-minded people around here. I've seen some walking down the streets during Mardi Gras with a mega-phone shouting that some diety can "save" the people who're just trying to have fun.

Speaking of Mardi Gras, man, a tickling video is NOTHING compared to that....well, not "nothing", but a tickling video seems less wild.

My parents aren't church-goin people, so they'd probably understand if I decided to do something like that. ....man, too bad about the liceanse thingie(cause man, I'm about to get a new computer, then I'm lookin at video cameras...and it's just for the heck of it right now. lol). Heck, if I did get one, though, I'd tell those politicians and whoever else where they could shove their protests....not in those kinds of words, though. I'd rather be nice enough to make them look like the jerks. 😀

Only prob is my mom's b/f's mom..she's a big-mouth (his words, not mine. lol )..and that I don't have a driver's liceanse yet. Kinda hard to go to any places without bein able to drive (when there's no bus or anything else out here. lol)

*sigh* so close and yet so far from bein able to do this stuff. lol

Don't start tellin me off, though, cause I don't act like I could do a better job than the current video companies. lol 😀
 
I am sorry mabus, but there will always be critics. If there is a product to be consumed there will be critics. It has been that way and it always will be that way no matter how many people start their own companies. Just look at American Idol, 10,000 people entered but 20,000,000 watched. That is 2000 citics for every contestent. That is like the ratios we got here. There are four major tickling companies that serve about 8000 ticklephiles. (BTW Yaqi has vowed never to make another video so he is out now too) Just remember that companies will come and go but the critics will always be there.
 
Novus said:
I am sorry mabus, but there will always be critics. If there is a product to be consumed there will be critics. It has been that way and it always will be that way no matter how many people start their own companies. Just look at American Idol, 10,000 people entered but 20,000,000 watched. That is 2000 citics for every contestent. That is like the ratios we got here. There are four major tickling companies that serve about 8000 ticklephiles. (BTW Yaqi has vowed never to make another video so he is out now too) Just remember that companies will come and go but the critics will always be there.


Exactly. Just like there are critics of tickling videos, there are movie critics, music critics, Tv critics, ect.

Without the critics telling people what's wrong with a video, music, movie, chances are nothing will change.
 
Right About The Time...

O/T


Tron
 
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No, I know there will always be critics. I'm saying this is now the ultimate chance to shut up and put out. The technology is now cheap enough for anyone to buy. Much of the competition is now gone. They keep saying the can do it better. Well, why not? Most people won't get the chance to direct a major motion picture for Hollywood, but anyone can make an independant video, and even more people could make a tickling video, that doesn't require complex scene setups and thousands of edit points.

And to He-Man, good luck. When you decide to start, I'll give you any technical pointers you might need. The want ads always have cheap vehicles, and Best Buy has Digital Cameras and Sony VAIO's that amke DVD's that are nowadays buyable. The costs really aren't that prohibitive anymore. New Orleans is different from further down south, that place wouldn't care if someone was making tickle videos, because it is a huge town and there's adult video stores and Mardi Gras shops everywhere. I say go for it. (But ya got do do some pantyhose tickling, dude!)
 
Dammit, where were all these Cajuns when I lived down there ???

I'm in N Louisiana now (which BTW is BY FAR more conservative) - I've only been here about a year.

I really don't have anything pertinent to this thread, but I see 2 people from my hometown area, and I'm gonna chime in.

I guess all I can say is the opportunity is there for whoever wants to take it. I thought about it myself when I was in college, but now I've got too good a thing going.

Also, il son partie! Aiy-eeeeee!!!!


Hound
 
mabus said:
Well, why not? Most people won't get the chance to direct a major motion picture for Hollywood, but anyone can make an independant video, and even more people could make a tickling video, that doesn't require complex scene setups and thousands of edit points.

And to He-Man, good luck. When you decide to start, I'll give you any technical pointers you might need. The want ads always have cheap vehicles, and Best Buy has Digital Cameras and Sony VAIO's that amke DVD's that are nowadays buyable. The costs really aren't that prohibitive anymore. New Orleans is different from further down south, that place wouldn't care if someone was making tickle videos, because it is a huge town and there's adult video stores and Mardi Gras shops everywhere. I say go for it. (But ya got do do some pantyhose tickling, dude!)


Well, I already have a vehichle...if you're talkin about cars and trucks, I mean. lol Was hard to do the driving part of the driving test, though....would've been so much easier if other people had been followin the rules of the road. lol

Man, you're right about New Orleans...I mean, considering what they allow on Burbon Street and St. Charles Street (only by the area where there are VERY few kids...other part of that street way down the other end has a good amount of families hangin there durin mardi gras) during Mardi Gras, tickling would probably be fun.

Oh and if i did do this stuff, I definately would do some pantyhose tickling (with the girl wearing it, not me!! lol ) .

....waaaitaminute...you're just saying all that cause you WANT someone else to start up so you can take a long break....yeah, someone else starts up and the attention gets focused on them. Ha, you're not foolin ME, dude!:idontwann

lol just kiddin. 😀 Nice to see that you'd help someone if they start up rather than claim "You'll never be good as me! Ha hahahahaa!" lol

Man...crazy part is, I could get almost everything I'd need. Buuut...I'd better wait till my mom's b/f and I get the stuff we're gonna grow going....cause if I'd make too much money, I wouldnt be able to get SSI anymore...and that wouldn't be too good...medicine for Cystic Fibrosis is freakin EXPENSIVE! Of course, I'd rather be able to live comfortably and not NEED SSI...once that happens(cause I'm determined to make it happen..and soon, too. 😀), maybe then I WILL try making tickling videos.(heck, even got an idea or two for a video that'd definately be....different) Cause right now, I'm at the point where I almost don't give a rat's a** if my family finds out . lol Probably a good thing that I'd have to wait, anyway....it'll give me time to practice with a video camera and video editing programs. 😉
 
ticklehound said:
Dammit, where were all these Cajuns when I lived down there ???

I'm in N Louisiana now (which BTW is BY FAR more conservative) - I've only been here about a year.




Hound


I think I might be close to you, Hound...I live in Folsom, now, instead of Chauvin. I dunno, though...I've lived here for a few years and still don't know all the towns. lol
 
Having participated in Internet forums for a while, I've seen some really strange ideas out there. In the tickling community, I've seen one particularly absurd idea embraced by many. A philosophy that says, you've no right to offer criticism of tickling videos, unless you yourself also go out there and make them. Where this ludicrous notion originated, I have no idea.

Think about it. How many times have you seen this response to any criticism of tickling videos: "Oh, you're criticizing? Where are your videos?" Does our ability to look at a video and decide if it's good or bad really hinge on us making our own videos?? How was such a policy ever derived? By what bastardization of logic could somebody reach such a conclusion, I really have to wonder.

I think people resort to this philosophy because they don't know how else to respond to criticism. You buy a video that you really like, or maybe from a company you really like. Somebody in the forum says it sucks. So insteading of challenging that assessment with reasons why you liked it, you try to negate their credibility by bringing up the (completely unrelated) fact that they themselves don't contribute anything. In my opinion, that should never be used as a basis of credence. I'm sure most of us have been to the theatres and seen movies we thought sucked at some point. "Out of Africa" and "Star Trek V" come to mind. Did the fact that we never made a motion picture ever stop us from speaking our minds on them? When somebody says they think Seinfeld sucks, do you ask them, "Well, where is your stand-up comedy?
 
drew70 said:
Having participated in Internet forums for a while, I've seen some really strange ideas out there. In the tickling community, I've seen one particularly absurd idea embraced by many. A philosophy that says, you've no right to offer criticism of tickling videos, unless you yourself also go out there and make them. Where this ludicrous notion originated, I have no idea.

Think about it. How many times have you seen this response to any criticism of tickling videos: "Oh, you're criticizing? Where are your videos?" Does our ability to look at a video and decide if it's good or bad really hinge on us making our own videos?? How was such a policy ever derived? By what bastardization of logic could somebody reach such a conclusion, I really have to wonder.

I think people resort to this philosophy because they don't know how else to respond to criticism. You buy a video that you really like, or maybe from a company you really like. Somebody in the forum says it sucks. So insteading of challenging that assessment with reasons why you liked it, you try to negate their credibility by bringing up the (completely unrelated) fact that they themselves don't contribute anything. In my opinion, that should never be used as a basis of credence. I'm sure most of us have been to the theatres and seen movies we thought sucked at some point. "Out of Africa" and "Star Trek V" come to mind. Did the fact that we never made a motion picture ever stop us from speaking our minds on them? When somebody says they think Seinfeld sucks, do you ask them, "Well, where is your stand-up comedy?


Drew, thank you for your sane and logical answer. I agree that just because one is critical of a video does not mean he/she does not know what they are talking about simply because they do not produce their own vids.

That defense is a rather weak and childish one.

I am not involved in politics, so does that mean I have no right to critisize the President?

And by the way, according to Dodger, I am both you and Jeremy. I didn't know I had a 3-way split personality.
 
People who BUY the videos have every right to complain. As for people who DON'T buy vids, and only surf the net looking for free shit, I will not share my comments on these people in the TMF. This is a well moderated place and I don't want to increase the cleanup detail of the mods.







If you really want to know what Wall$treet thinks of these people, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wallstreettickling/
 
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How Can You Say...

Deleted: off topic.
 
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LOL. There goes Tron, How I wonder what post I missed of yours.
:devil:

DK
 
WallStreet said:
People who BUY the videos have every right to complain. As for people who DON'T buy vids, and only surf the net looking for free shit, I will not share my comments on these people in the TMF. This is a well moderated place and I don't want to increase the cleanup detail of the mods.







If you really want to know what Wall$treet thinks of these people, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wallstreettickling/

I have been to the group and enjoyed your posts there. I will add my 2 cents at a later date, my friend....


Ven

(who doesnt have the talent to produce vids and has no complaints against those who do)
 
LOL Which Mod?

Deleted my second post? HOW can it possibly be ANYMORE off topic that Wallstreets is? Please tell me?

I posted a reply to Wallstreet concerning *edited*

Now I admit what I posted about mabus was off topic, BUT deleting the second post was a classic bit of over moderation.


Tron

Posted by Myriads: When Wallstreets post was edited, your post no longer had any context at all, and became off topic as a result. And was thus removed.
 
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Your premise is that no one should criticize a product or service unless they themselves produce that product. I strongly disagree. According to your logic, only restaurant owners can complain about bad service in a restaurant, and you can never make a complaint to a store unless you operate a similar type of store. This is silly. If someone has a complaint about a product that they paid their hard-earned money for, they have a right to air it. It doesn't matter whether that product is an apple, a car, a shirt, a tickling video, or anything else. Same thing about customer service. Well-documented customer reviews, both positive and negative, help the rest of us make better consumer decisions, and force companies to satisfy their customers with quality products and services in order ot stay in business.

While there are some people who just live to complain, it is not for you to decide who gets the right to have an opinion and who does not.
 
well, what I'm about to say isn't as relevant to video-making, but I *did* have a number of issues in getting started on Ticklish Situations that are relevant.

I live on the east coast, just outside of New York. I don't know about California and Las Vegas, where the majority of the adult entertainment-type models seems to proliferate (strike one against me: location), but the models from the Ny/NJ area command... well, a lot of dough. A few hundred dollars an hour. The photo shoot for TS takes a little under two hours, and I don't know a model that would travel out here for such a short assignment. Plus, considering that more is better in my case, I'm going to need a lot of ladies (which is the same as a video company really, as you can't keep doing videos with the same two chicks over and over) - so if I'd paid all of my models (seven) two hundred dollars, which is cheap for such an assignment, I'd already be fifteen hundred in the hole - and that's just for video content. Never mind all of the time it'll take me to finish coding and processing all the art. And on talking to folks in the biz, who HAVE published, a product of this sort can expect to sell a few hundred copies at the most. Which means, you may break even. I'm getting around this by offering royalities of the sales, and when my wireless publishing project starts making money I may be able to offer some cash up front... but if I had to pay off the bat, TS, would have never even gotten started. hell, it still may never see the light of day. and if it doesn't? wasted money. lots of it.

as far as criticizing videos goes, I once heard an expression I think is quite fitting. it goes...

"I don't have to be an airplane mechanic to point out that there's a gaping hole in the fuselage."
 
All the points presented were valid, and I retract some of my thoughts. But I think I can sum up my opinion of criticizing videos by what Myriads said in another thread about preferences.

Intelligent critiques can make and have made better tickling videos. But these videos are all about preferences. I like pantyhose, preferably the flesh colored ones, no RHT. I also like fully clothed models. Now, I just ordered the Syddra DVD from RealTickling. Now, from the preview, it looks good. It may be good. But it won't make the "masterpiece" rating in my mind, because I already know there is no pantyhose in it. Now, Syddra is one of my favorite models, and she has a great laugh. But she was never tickled in hose. I can't fairly rate this DVD and say it sucks, just because there is no pantyhose. But after I get it, I'm sure I would rate it below a video that features pantyhose tickling. Those who like barefoot tickling, with a girl in a bikini would hate a video featuring a girl in hose in an office outfit. I'd give it five stars.

Hollywood movies are different. This whole "preference" thing, for the most part, doesn't exist. One of my favorite movies was "Dark City." I consider it a masterpiece. Roger Ebert named it the best movie of 1995. I look at the actors in it and the outfits, and I say "Perfect choices." If the costumes were different, I would never know, because I only see what is presented to me. In a tickling video, however, I can say "Man, if only she had pantyhose!" while the next guy is saying "If only she was tickled in socks!" and the barefoot guy is like "This video is perfect!" Then if her laugh is harmonious, like Syddra or Rachelle, or Arianna, I will say she is the best laugher. Those who like a screamer will say these models aren't that hot, because they aren't screaming. And this continues on with every possible preference there is.

From what Francois said in his thread, a bigger problem is that maybe 60% to 70% of girls in videos aren't even ticklish, or fake it, or don't laugh. Since the video producers don't really have that big of a pool of girls who want to be in videos, that just the way things will be. So I try not to be overly harsh on the video guys when the girls don't laugh. I just want a preview clip so I can see if they do laugh or not.

But a lot of the really harsh critics, just say the video sucks, but never say why. The video producers have to be waving their hands in the air like "What do you want!?" I think that's the biggest critique of the critics. "Huh, all the videos out there suck!" Why? "Because they suck!" Well, that tells them nothing. Yes, I have complaints, like when Yaqi says we all suck because we just want tickling material. That's like George Lucas getting pissed off because fans just want to go watch his movies. But he aims for Howard Stern, and has gotten the word out there, so he deserves credit for that. (I saw a clip of him on what looked like a morning news show, and he seems like such a level headed, nice guy. I just can't put that guy with his rants against us.) But WHY do they suck? Is it because the models have gags on, and can't even laugh, or they're not ticklish, or the male tickler is blabbing away, and you can't even hear the girl laugh, or is it something else? What is it that makes all the video companies and videos they produce bad?

My whole point about starting your own company, now, can be taken seriously. Yaqi said he has stopped making tickling videos. None have been added recently to his site, so I guess that's true. Femfeet is gone. Most of the sites, like Model Magik, have three or four videos, that have been up for years, with no new ones added. Now, Jeff seems to be the top guy, but Jeff has a style that, sad to say, isn't my preference. He mostly does bare foot, and the models are in stocks, with bikini on or totally nude. (Boy, but that Ryan Conner was awesome! She had a great laugh, bare or pantyhose!) He has a great site, and great videos. If he started doing more hose, I'd like his videos even more. But would that drive away the bare footers....?

So, if someone doesn't fill that gap, well, lets just hope that Jeff doesn't close up shop! Capitalism is all about competition, but now there's almost no competition out there! Robert Rodriquez, Kevin Smith, Stanley Kubrick, David Fincher, and basically every other director out there started off because they thought they could make better movies than what were out there. And that kind of person will start the next great tickling video company.
 
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