Game Makers Chat

[BrewedWar]

This thread may not go anywhere, but i still wanted to make it just in case there's even the teeniest, tiniest possibility that anyone at all could find it interesting .-.

To anyone out there who has made a game, tickling or not, with a tool such as RPG maker or Virtual Novel maker, or even in python or javascript, i just wanted an open dialogue where we could talk about it :3

What's the event or battle or puzzle or anything at all that you're most proud of? How long did it take you to design? What was your secret??

What's something you've always wanted to know how to do? Is there an area that you find challenging, like designing puzzles or interesting fights, or skills, or even fitting scenes in?

no one has to respond, and i don't expect anyone to ^_^ but i really love discussing the design part of game design and if anyone at all wants to shoot the spit over it, i'd be thrilled to!

 

[Lurker]

What's the event or battle or puzzle or anything at all that you're most proud of? How long did it take you to design? What was your secret??

Most proud of? It's kind of a bucket list project for me to eventually make a game with a stat system like Final Fantasy 2's. I'm not at the level of making detailed scripts yet, but one test project of sorts, I actually kinda jerry-rigged something close using common events and battle statuses. That was pretty cool. It took a really long time, mostly just because it was tedious. The game had over a dozen characters, and I had to make a bunch of branching common events tied to hidden status effects for each one.

I'm planning on one day just commissioning someone to make a custom script for me.

What's something you've always wanted to know how to do? Is there an area that you find challenging, like designing puzzles or interesting fights, or skills, or even fitting scenes in?

I suppose scripting would be my answer here. I'm not very good at making puzzles. But it's sort of different for me. The thing is, I'm not a big fan of puzzles, to be honest. Other people are, so I sometimes decide to try and make something here or there so people don't complain, but I'd be fine with something like Final Fantasy 1 or Dragon Warrior, which, if I recall correctly, had no puzzles at all. I adored the battle system in Golden Sun, but all those puzzles, ugh.

 

[BrewedWar]

Most proud of? It's kind of a bucket list project for me to eventually make a game with a stat system like Final Fantasy 2's. I'm not at the level of making detailed scripts yet, but one test project of sorts, I actually kinda jerry-rigged something close using common events and battle statuses. That was pretty cool. It took a really long time, mostly just because it was tedious. The game had over a dozen characters, and I had to make a bunch of branching common events tied to hidden status effects for each one.

I'm planning on one day just commissioning someone to make a custom script for me.

That sounds awesome!! I know it gets shit on, but FF2's system is honestly something that I adore and I've always wanted to play around with it too

Given my current project, I haven't had a chance but that's really cool!~

I suppose scripting would be my answer here. I'm not very good at making puzzles. But it's sort of different for me. The thing is, I'm not a big fan of puzzles, to be honest. Other people are, so I sometimes decide to try and make something here or there so people don't complain, but I'd be fine with something like Final Fantasy 1 or Dragon Warrior, which, if I recall correctly, had no puzzles at all. I adored the battle system in Golden Sun, but all those puzzles, ugh.

I really enjoy puzzles, but it can be very difficult to get them just right. Final Fantasy 1 and 2 really didn't have puzzles...so much as they had obfuscation through lack of information. Trying to find that Fairy Bottle? Ugh...

 

[Lurker]

That sounds awesome!! I know it gets shit on, but FF2's system is honestly something that I adore and I've always wanted to play around with it too

Given my current project, I haven't had a chance but that's really cool!~

I was originally hoping to add it into the tickling game I'm working on at the moment, but I just didn't have any script in place by the time I started, and frankly I think it works better without it this time. I'll probably try to have it for the next game I make.

I really enjoy puzzles, but it can be very difficult to get them just right. Final Fantasy 1 and 2 really didn't have puzzles...so much as they had obfuscation through lack of information. Trying to find that Fairy Bottle? Ugh...

Normally I like retro stuff, but I was never a fan of "Where do I go now?" I happily embrace things like quest markers or even in-game arrows that you can toggle.

Because I'm not really a fan of puzzles, I personally think they should just be used when it makes sense. I think games like The Elder Scrolls do this pretty well. Every random cave doesn't have an elaborate rock sliding puzzle, because why would it? If there's some tomb with valuables, or secret hiding place, there might be some puzzle to keep intruders out.

 

[BrewedWar]

I was originally hoping to add it into the tickling game I'm working on at the moment, but I just didn't have any script in place by the time I started, and frankly I think it works better without it this time. I'll probably try to have it for the next game I make.

That's a shame, but I'm glad you're still working on it!

Yeah there's a number of things I've run into that I'd looooooooooooove to mess with, but they just don't belong in Who Hunts Monsters, like weapon crafting, cross-classes, attribute points and such, so I'm just left going siiiighh as I stare at the stuff I can't use right now :T

Normally I like retro stuff, but I was never a fan of "Where do I go now?" I happily embrace things like quest markers or even in-game arrows that you can toggle.

Because I'm not really a fan of puzzles, I personally think they should just be used when it makes sense. I think games like The Elder Scrolls do this pretty well. Every random cave doesn't have an elaborate rock sliding puzzle, because why would it? If there's some tomb with valuables, or secret hiding place, there might be some puzzle to keep intruders out.

Absolutely. Some games (mainstream, big budget games) go insane with puzzles that make no sense. It seems like a lot of times the excuse is "ancient location" justifies any obtuse door opening mechanism lol

 

[Lurker]

That's a shame, but I'm glad you're still working on it!

I think it was just me trying to merge two things I wanted to do into one game, and it's good I realized they need to be separate. That kinda stuff feels shoehorned if done improperly. Another idea I originally had for the game I'm working on now was to make all equipment accessories, and just let characters equip whatever four accessories. I was thinking anklets since I typically do feet content. Noir actually beat me to this one. The idea was much like equipment in Fairy Maze. In the end, I decided against it, because I wanted to make unique weapon drops. I might use that idea in the future though. I like it.

Yeah there's a number of things I've run into that I'd looooooooooooove to mess with, but they just don't belong in Who Hunts Monsters, like weapon crafting, cross-classes, attribute points and such, so I'm just left going siiiighh as I stare at the stuff I can't use right now :T

It's a good thing you want to use those but realize it's wise not to. You can use all that as motivation to make another game later. I have some real life friends who toy around with RPG Maker, and I've seen games with strategies like "Let's download and try to implement every yanfly script." It just becomes a mess after awhile. Plus it's usually too much work in the end to go through with implementing every thing, so I politely tell them how cool it sounds knowing this game will never have more than two dungeons.

Every single time you push "new project" in RPG Maker it's one, giant fight against vaporware. I think the true skill of RPG Maker lies in knowing how big of a game you can create before you're sick of doing so.

 

[jo75307530]

What's the event/battle/puzzle that I'm most proud of? If I had to say, it would be doing a system to check for the amount of points a player earned after a quiz, take in mind that I've just started tinkering around with VXAce.

So far it took about a few hours of my programming time just to bootstrap an ugly solution for it. Using many variable checkers on parallel processing along with increasing the variable numbers of some variables, I've managed to get it to finally check the correct amount of answered questions at the end (one problem was using conditional branches, but this kept the loop stuck on 1 questions answered at the end for some odd reason, even if 3 questions were answered).

As for something I would want to know how to do... I guess improving on my narration and dialogue would be the next thing, along with learning how to balance battle mechanics. While I have tried writing a few story lines before, haven't dabbled in the battling side of things yet, so looking forward to it!

On a side note, honestly loved the design of Cackling Cave! Not the typical fighting tickle rpg like the others, yet it felt right for the casual player like me who loved the scenes and interactions more than grinding/battling of the usual games.

 

[Lurker]

As for something I would want to know how to do... I guess improving on my narration and dialogue would be the next thing, along with learning how to balance battle mechanics. While I have tried writing a few story lines before, haven't dabbled in the battling side of things yet, so looking forward to it!

My method for balancing battles is to just approach them as a player. As a creator, I'm sometimes unsure how to balance it, but I've noticed that as a player, I can be a great critic. I play video games all the time and think, "This is taking way too long," "Why does this boss hit so hard?" etc.

Some of this you can accomplish in test battles and whatnot, but I think it adds an extra layer of editing when you go through your whole game, and also look at it from the big picture.

On a similar note, I always advise people to just keep going. Don't let something get you stuck, and then you start taking a prolonged break, or you feel like, "I'd work on the game, but I still don't know what to do about that boss' difficulty. I don't know, maybe I'll think about it for awhile," etc. Just keep going, even if you think it's terrible, and you can iron it out later. It's often easier when you're working with a finished game, even if it's a skeleton of one.

On a side note, honestly loved the design of Cackling Cave! Not the typical fighting tickle rpg like the others, yet it felt right for the casual player like me who loved the scenes and interactions more than grinding/battling of the usual games.

I just played Cackling Cave recently, and it's still really good.

Here's something I noticed recently. The majority of the most beloved, celebrated, Square RPGs are really . . . really easy games. Final Fantasy 6, Final Fantasy 7, Super Mario RPG, Crono Trigger, Xenogears, etc. All of them are either easy, easy to break, or both.

I think it can be a bit on the amateur-ish side to make your entire game a ball-busting grindfest. Almost everyone who picks up RPG Maker does that immediately. There are mentalities like, "My game is going to be really challenging, and it's going to be the best because you have to be an RPG master to beat it, etc. etc." It can be done well, especially if you're asking me. I love the NES Final Fantasy 2, even though no one else does.

I'm not trying to sound condescending or conceited, either. I've had issues making games too difficult. A lot of people here thought my last game was too grindy. It was after that game that I came to the epiphany that most of those "classics" are actually pretty easy games. I'm not advising everyone to make really easy games, just that "super difficult" never added anything to an RPG.

 

[BrewedWar]

What's the event/battle/puzzle that I'm most proud of? If I had to say, it would be doing a system to check for the amount of points a player earned after a quiz, take in mind that I've just started tinkering around with VXAce.

So far it took about a few hours of my programming time just to bootstrap an ugly solution for it. Using many variable checkers on parallel processing along with increasing the variable numbers of some variables, I've managed to get it to finally check the correct amount of answered questions at the end (one problem was using conditional branches, but this kept the loop stuck on 1 questions answered at the end for some odd reason, even if 3 questions were answered).

As for something I would want to know how to do... I guess improving on my narration and dialogue would be the next thing, along with learning how to balance battle mechanics. While I have tried writing a few story lines before, haven't dabbled in the battling side of things yet, so looking forward to it!

On a side note, honestly loved the design of Cackling Cave! Not the typical fighting tickle rpg like the others, yet it felt right for the casual player like me who loved the scenes and interactions more than grinding/battling of the usual games.

That's awesome ^_^ I actually have a little quiz coming in Chapter 3 of WHM that gives you gold based on correct answers. I did it like this:

◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Hey! Are you ready to take my Monster Girl Quiz??
◆Show Choices：I guess so!, Sure!, Eh, alright! (Window, Right, #1, #1)
：When I guess so!
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Great! Let's begin! I'm going to ask you five questions
： ：about some of my favorite Monster Girls. You'll get
： ：Experience and Gold for every one you get right!
◆Jump to Label：Monster Girl Quiz
◆
：When Sure!
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Great! Let's begin! I'm going to ask you five questions
： ：about some of my favorite Monster Girls. You'll get
： ：Experience and Gold for every one you get right!
◆Jump to Label：Monster Girl Quiz
◆
：When Eh, alright!
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Great! Let's begin! I'm going to ask you five questions
： ：about some of my favorite Monster Girls. You'll get
： ：Experience and Gold for every one you get right!
◆Jump to Label：Monster Girl Quiz
◆
：End
◆Label：Monster Girl Quiz
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Alright...Question Number One:\!
： ：How tall is a Fairy?
◆Show Choices：1ft, 43cm, 25.4cm, 6in (Window, Right, #1, -)
：When 1ft
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 24.5cm!
◆Jump to Label：Question 2
◆
：When 43cm
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 24.5cm!
◆Jump to Label：Question 2
◆
：When 25.4cm
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{CORRECT!\!\}\}
： ：Wow, you really pay attention!\!
： ：A fairy is 24.5cm, or 10in tall!
◆Control Variables：#0109 Quiz Correct += 1
◆Jump to Label：Question 2
◆
：When 6in
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 24.5cm!
◆Jump to Label：Question 2
◆
：End
◆Label：Question 2
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Alright...Question Number Two:\!
： ：How many variations of Slime live in the Sugarheart Pass?
◆Show Choices：1, 2, 3, 4 (Window, Right, #1, -)
：When 1
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 3!
◆Jump to Label：Question 3
◆
：When 2
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 3!
◆Jump to Label：Question 3
◆
：When 3
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{CORRECT!\!\}\}
： ：Wow, you really pay attention!\!
： ：There are 3 slimes: Blue, Green, and Red!
◆Control Variables：#0109 Quiz Correct += 1
◆Jump to Label：Question 3
◆
：When 4
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: 3!
◆Jump to Label：Question 3
◆
：End
◆Label：Question 3
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Alright...Question Number Three:\!
： ：What is the secret item you can get from the Hobgoblin?
◆Show Choices：Secret Stash, Goblin's Club, Mango, Iron Sword (Window, Right, #1, -)
：When Secret Stash
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: Goblin's Club!
◆Jump to Label：Question 4
◆
：When Goblin's Club
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{CORRECT!\!\}\}
： ：Wow, you really pay attention!\!
： ：Using Steal, you can get the Goblin's Club!
◆Control Variables：#0109 Quiz Correct += 1
◆Jump to Label：Question 4
◆
：When Mango
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: Goblin's Club!
◆Jump to Label：Question 4
◆
：When Iron Sword
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: Goblin's Club!
◆Jump to Label：Question 4
◆
：End
◆Label：Question 4
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Alright...Question Number Four:\!
： ：What is the gift you can receive from the Kobold?
◆Show Choices：Dog Collar, Candle, Linen Cloth, Glittering Gem (Window, Right, #1, -)
：When Dog Collar
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: A Glittering Gem!
◆Jump to Label：Question 5
◆
：When Candle
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: A Glittering Gem!
◆Jump to Label：Question 5
◆
：When Linen Cloth
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: A Glittering Gem!
◆Jump to Label：Question 5
◆
：When Glittering Gem
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{CORRECT!\!\}\}
： ：Wow, you really pay attention!\!
： ：The Kobold can give you a Glittering Gem!
◆Control Variables：#0109 Quiz Correct += 1
◆Jump to Label：Question 5
◆
：End
◆Label：Question 5
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Alright...Last Question:\!
： ：Which Monster Girl wants to learn Melio's Secret Technique?
◆Show Choices：Amazon, Salamander, Jinko, Griffon (Window, Right, #1, -)
：When Amazon
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: the Salamander!
◆Jump to Label：Results
◆
：When Salamander
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{CORRECT!\!\}\}
： ：Wow, you really pay attention!\!
： ：The Salamander wants Melio's secret technique!
◆Control Variables：#0109 Quiz Correct += 1
◆Jump to Label：Results
◆
：When Jinko
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: the Salamander!
◆Jump to Label：Results
◆
：When Griffon
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>\{\{WRONG!\!\}\}
： ：Haven't you been paying attention?\!
： ：The correct answer is: the Salamander!
◆Jump to Label：Results
◆
：End
◆Label：Results
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：\N<Fanatic>Yay! That was fun! Now...let's see...\!
： ：Out of 5 questions you got...\v[109] correct!\!
： ：Here's your reward!
◆Control Variables：#0113 Quiz GOLD = 50
◆Control Variables：#0113 Quiz GOLD *= Quiz Correct
◆Play SE：Chime2 (90, 150, 0)
◆Text：None, Window, Bottom
： ：*You got \v[113] Gold!*

Whoops that ended up bigger than I had hoped...oh well! ^_^ I use labels to jump around, and a single variable to track if the question was answered correctly. You'd just need one more to track incorrect answers.

Balancing battles is a struggle, especially the more complex your game gets. Since I like using small numbers, as much as +1 or -1 to a stat can swing a fight drastically, so the only real way to get a good feel is to just...test...and test...and test...

What I do is get an idea in my head of "How hard should this fight be, if the player has the absolute best equipment and level at this point" and then test on that over and over again.

Then, I put the player at the absolute weakest they could reasonably by the time they reach that point. The key here is reasonably. For example, I had to balance the King of the Mountain assuming the player didn't level up a single time in Chapter 2, since you're expected to avoid battles. Since my game doesn't use stat increases on level up, I just have to make sure the fight is balanced without having the level 6/level 7 skills.

And this only gets more complicated when you bring in other party members, other classes, etc. But you need to have in your head "On a scale of 1 - 10 this fight should be a 4" or something like that, and then balance that fight until it feels right.

I'm not trying to sound condescending or conceited, either. I've had issues making games too difficult. A lot of people here thought my last game was too grindy. It was after that game that I came to the epiphany that most of those "classics" are actually pretty easy games. I'm not advising everyone to make really easy games, just that "super difficult" never added anything to an RPG.

That's a really good point! I think it also has a lot to do with your expectations. I, personally, like doing non-grind, high difficulty runs of games. Like Bravely Default, I play on Hard, and once I hit a comfortable level, I turn off experience. If I grind, it's only job levels, not player levels. So...WHM is kind of balanced around that ideal. If you play smart and prepare, you'll win.

I've actually got a completely new leveling system coming in Chapter 3 that will streamline the leveling process, remove separate levels on different classes, and overall just make it more fun to go through the game at a normal pace.

But!! The point is, you need to know what you want the game to be, and build it in that image. Don't let "It's not Hard enough" or "It's too Hard" get in the way of the type of game you want to make.

That said: I really really really hate grinding as a difficulty mechanic. It's not difficult, it's not strategic, it's just tedious.

 

[Lurker]

That's a really good point! I think it also has a lot to do with your expectations. I, personally, like doing non-grind, high difficulty runs of games. Like Bravely Default, I play on Hard, and once I hit a comfortable level, I turn off experience. If I grind, it's only job levels, not player levels. So...WHM is kind of balanced around that ideal. If you play smart and prepare, you'll win.

I've actually got a completely new leveling system coming in Chapter 3 that will streamline the leveling process, remove separate levels on different classes, and overall just make it more fun to go through the game at a normal pace.

But!! The point is, you need to know what you want the game to be, and build it in that image. Don't let "It's not Hard enough" or "It's too Hard" get in the way of the type of game you want to make.

That said: I really really really hate grinding as a difficulty mechanic. It's not difficult, it's not strategic, it's just tedious.

I think, maybe, the ideal place for grinding is to make the game easier, rather than more difficult. Maybe it'd work best if the game was a little on the challenging side. You could go through the whole game, and have a suitably challenging task of playing strategically in order to win fights, etc. If you find it too hard, you could stop, grind a few levels, buy better gear, etc. It'd be like, a "lore friendly difficulty slider." Also it could let you vary up how you're role playing.

 

[BrewedWar]

Bumping with some humblebrag I guess lol. I recently went on a super late night editing spree and managed to create a custom Battle HUD for WHM!

It still utilizes the default windows, but everything is moved around, there's less clutter, and it's allowed me to add extra information to the player window like custom resources, barrier points, etc, with the option to, potentially, add things like altered faces for weakened characters and such!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsPFBLxJ5kw

The video also includes the completely remade kit for Miller Lite, which is probably my favorite kit that I've ever designed. It feels fluid, simple, yet very powerful!

 

[Lurker]

So I'm working on a different project now (I have a lot of those). I'm dealing with very, very large, frequently changing numbers. The only issue I'm having at the moment is the maker doesn't naturally put commas in things. Have any of the MV savvy posters here seen something that would automatically present 99999 as 99,999 instead? I looked but I couldn't find anything.

 

[keeganbarton]

Man, what happened though? Used to be stuff would pop up game wise left and right.

All though even I'm a victim of jumping into something I never finished (Lost the computer I was using.)

But less and less people seem to even really try anymore.


Just generally talking out loud really, remembering the excitement from back in the day when almost every other day(s) something would sprout. Good times.

 

[dalfgan]

In some forums mods (or other motivated members) would organise events or small contests to motivate people to get up their asses and create/finish projects.

But not sure if it's a bit too late for that here

 

[keeganbarton]

In some forums mods (or other motivated members) would organise events or small contests to motivate people to get up their asses and create/finish projects.

But not sure if it's a bit too late for that here

It's not so much a laziness issue as much as it's a how much actual time and effort issue, super understandable why a lot don't get finished.

 

[BrewedWar]

Man, what happened though? Used to be stuff would pop up game wise left and right.

All though even I'm a victim of jumping into something I never finished (Lost the computer I was using.)

But less and less people seem to even really try anymore.


Just generally talking out loud really, remembering the excitement from back in the day when almost every other day(s) something would sprout. Good times.

I know in my case it's a lot of stress and work that's really slowed me down. My father passing away, my wife and I trying to adopt, work stress, everything all at once has me slowed to a crawl.

It doesn't help that my dumbass decided to rewrite all of my tickling scenes, though to be fair all the new scenes are much better than the old ones.

In some forums mods (or other motivated members) would organise events or small contests to motivate people to get up their asses and create/finish projects.

But not sure if it's a bit too late for that here

I wouldn't be opposed to doing a gamejam sort of thing lol it could be really fun to kind of put our heads together and try to make something passable in like 2 weeks or something, but it'd be difficult and we'd need everyone to be on the same page AND using the same engine.

 

[Lurker]

I used to have a lot of time to work on things, but I'm working 40 - 48 hours a week at the moment, so basically everything is on hiatus for the time being.