A couple questions about "Hard Limits".

[CrystalLight]

Hard Limits are places or areas on a person that is strictly "off limits" to a 'Ler, right?

If this is so, what happens to them during a torture scene? Are those Hard Limits automatically null and void for the session?

If so, what's the point of having them if you know you are going to or want to try a scene of that magnitude?

Does it make having them kind of pointless, at least for that time?

Do you Lees have any Hard Limits?

Do 'Lers have Hard Limits??

 

[milagros317]

To me, a "hard limit" for a person is something that they never want done at all, in any type of session.

Yes, I do have some, even though I do things in BDSM sessions that have made some TMF members cringe in horror.

Reading "Adventures with Mistress Zara and Mistress Kassandra" you will read about me drinking their urine, for example. That is not a limit with me for the right person.

But one of my hard limits is "No CBT." If anybody violated that limit while I was tied up, I would never session with them again. Never. And I would tell everybody I knew who knew them that they broke a hard limit.

 

[Snail Shell]

Name: Snail Shell
Real Name: Snail Shell
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Power Level: Brown
Position: Switch, with leanings towards being a Ler/Dom/Top
Hard Limits as a Top: If I'm not in a romantic relationship with the Bottom, the following are off limits: Sexual intercourse. Oral kissing. Anything deemed unsuitable by the Bottom or her partner.
Hard Limis as a Bottom: CBT. Anal play. I'm sure there's more, but I'm eating dinner right now.



Snail Shell

 

[Sandrock74]

OK, I'm gonna show my un-hipness once again. What is CBT? I keep seeing it mentioned but I don't know what in the world it means.

 

[Snail Shell]

OK, I'm gonna show my un-hipness once again. What is CBT? I keep seeing it mentioned but I don't know what in the world it means.

CBT = Cock & Ball Torture

Snail Shell

 

[Sandrock74]

CBT = Cock & Ball Torture

Snail Shell

Oh Dear God!! Why would someone want to torture that?? Or have it be tortured?? Ewwwww.....
All right, thats it, my mind is made up! No one better touch Mr. Happy for now on but me!





I really painted myself into a corner with that statement didn't I?

 

[TMF Jeff]

In my mind, a hard limit is a hard limit, meaning that if someone really says absolutely, categorically "don't do this thing," then that should be it. I dislike hard limits personally, though. I prefer to have someone explain to me what the issue is and then put it in my hands to deal with however seems best to me, on a case by case basis.

That said, I have friends with hard limits and I manage to respect them I think.

 

[Adam]

Hard limit is completely off-limits. It's a major rule of BDSM. To violate that is the ultimate breech of trust in any scene. Torture scenario or not, I'm not going there under any circumstances.

 

[marcusb]

A hard limit means under no circumstances may you do "whatever" to them.

So, say for example someone said nipple pinching is a hard limit. That means no nipple pinching. Period. Zero.

 

[AffectionateDan]

I knew a gal in the community who had a hard limit of not tickling her bellybutton, and for a very good reason; it made her nauseous. Violently ill. Barfy. And if you did it, she'd punch you in the head.

Hard limits are to respected, period. Anyone willingly violating the Lee's trust is in for some rough times, physically and socially. They're called Hard Limits for a reason.

 

[BrightEyes1082]

CBT = Cock & Ball Torture

Snail Shell

LOL. You said cock. and ball. Heh.

Seriously, I don't think there's anything wrong with hard limits. I have 1 hard limit: no ass tickling. I can't handle it. My ass is ticklish to the point of painful. Lee, my owner, graciously allows me to have this limit. However, as our relationship is defined, she has the right to not allow that limit, or not respect it, at any time. It's not my right to have that limit with her, but a privilege.

That being said, I do have that hard limit when playing with anyone else. If anybody were going to take me into that agonizing threshold, I wouldn't want it to be anybody other than her.

And then I would die. Srsly.

 

[Redmage]

Hard Limits are places or areas on a person that is strictly "off limits" to a 'Ler, right?

Places, areas, or activities. I know a 'lee who absolutely does not get off on cold sensations. So ice, for example, is a hard limit for her.

If this is so, what happens to them during a torture scene? Are those Hard Limits automatically null and void for the session?

Not automatically, but potentially. That would have to be negotiated before doing the scene.

If so, what's the point of having them if you know you are going to or want to try a scene of that magnitude?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by a "torture scene." I could see that term applying to a lot of different kinds of scenes:

• Roleplay interrogation
• A scene that's meant to push boundaries - get more intense than the participants have gotten before, but still stop short of hard limits.
• A scene in which the 'lee's safeword is suspended. That is not necessarily a license to break limits; it simply implies a greater degree of trust in the 'ler.
• A scene in which one or more limits is suspended for the duration.

Does it make having them kind of pointless, at least for that time?

Not at all. Even in a torture scene - however that is understood - the goal is still for all participants to have some kind of fun. The 'lee might not exactly enjoy it at the time, but he or she should at least look back on it happily after it's over. A hard limit is usually something that simply is not fun. So respecting them is often an important element of even the most intense scenes.

Perhaps an extreme example will help make the point. Most people have urination play as a hard limit - it's a very specialized kink that few share. If someone were to break that limit, even in a torture scene, the bottom might well be so disgusted and angry that the scene would end and so might the relationship.

So yes, there's a point to those things.

Do 'Lers have Hard Limits??

Absolutely. But most of my hard limits are outside the bounds of most tickling scenes in any case, so they seldom come up in that kind of play. For example, I won't inflict permanent marks or scars, I won't do ligature strangulation play, etc.

 

[Sandrock74]

Geez, everyone here gets around a lot more then me. I need to get out more.

 

[CrystalLight]

I knew a gal in the community who had a hard limit of not tickling her bellybutton, and for a very good reason; it made her nauseous. Violently ill. Barfy. And if you did it, she'd punch you in the head.

I get that same feeling when my bellybutton is messed with.

I can barely handle talking about it, makes me feel sick.

I won't do ligature strangulation play, etc.

What does that mean? Ligature strangulation?

 

[Spenser]

Since myself and my wife/partner Melinda came into the BDSM scene first and then the tickle scene a few years later, we've found some curious things.

First, we've met more BDSM'rs for whom tickling itself is a 'hard-limit'. otoh, there are more ticklers who are at least frequently play curious about spanky-fetish scenes!

Personally, one dear sm-friend of ours had a hard limit that we always respected. She'd be into almost anything we served up, however her absolute limitation was any religious talk or allusion during a scene. She knew we were both essentially Pagan and she and her husband were essentially Christian, so we always avoided anything like that at all of a religious or spirituality nature, even though we might semi-role play from time to time.

From this tickle/sm top-ler's perspective, I have one hard limit: Breath Play (in SM "Edge Play"). Yet, this self limitation even extends to making sure any possible tickle play partner who may be asthmatic is aware of all the precautions and has taken those precautions prior to engaging in tickle play.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

What does that mean? Ligature strangulation?

using something like rope, cloth, cable, etc. to strangle someone. some people prefer it, but there's too much of a risk in my opinion.

and as for the naysayers of CBT: don't knock it 'til you try it. there's various forms of CBT; not all of them are painful, but they can be excruciating.

 

[Spenser]

using something like rope, cloth, cable, etc. to strangle someone. some people prefer it, but there's too much of a risk in my opinion.

Add'l to comments by Red Mage, Cloudgazer, and me;

Early on, before she and I met, M herself was taught elemental 'strangulation' breath play by a (now retired) known leader and author in the sm scene. M then informed me as her top, in how she had been taught when we began to include it in our mutual play. This was circa 1992. We only incorporated it a couple of times in our private play. Though it was a bit of a turn on for her at the time, I became ---very---- uncomfortable with the way her momentary fainting spells manifested using this technique. Some quick research (Jay Wiseman, others) supported our view that it was far too risky for lovers or anyone who respected each others life and safety to play with.

just my humble opinion (a dead partner will never play with you again)

 

[Redmage]

What does that mean? Ligature strangulation?

It's a form of breath-control play. I don't have a problem with breath control per se - it's edgy, but it can be done safely. A ligature, however, is a cord or some similar thing that is wrapped around something else and tightened. Some people do breath control that way - wrap a ligature around a partner's neck and tighten it.

The problem with doing it this way is the trachea, or windpipe. If you apply enough pressure to it, it breaks. And you can never tell how close it is to breaking until it breaks. So this kind of play can turn from fun to fatal very quickly. Some don't mind that risk, but I won't play that way.

 

[huskys]

Hard Limits are places or areas on a person that is strictly "off limits" to a 'Ler, right?

If this is so, what happens to them during a torture scene? Are those Hard Limits automatically null and void for the session?

If so, what's the point of having them if you know you are going to or want to try a scene of that magnitude?

Does it make having them kind of pointless, at least for that time?

Do you Lees have any Hard Limits?

Do 'Lers have Hard Limits??

This is a great set of questions.
I have often wondered myself with lees who say they like to be tickle tortured, if it is true torture how can you like it.
And if they can take the tickling without giving up, safewording, etc, was it really that torturous or just fun.
The best explanation I have heard is from a good friend of mine who is an avid lee.
She wants her ler to tickle her to the point of begging and not stop. She has a ticklish spot that drives her out of her mind far worse than anywhere else, and knows that if it is discovered her begging and desparation would be real, and therefore won't reveal it to just anybody.
But it isn't a "hard limit", because if her ler does discover it and decides to exploit it , she realises that she has left herself open by not declaring it off limits from the start.
'Hard limits" by my understanding are boundaries that the lee does not want crossed under any circumstances, and are set at the very start.
There could be a variety of reasons for the limits, but they are to be respected reguardless.
If the lee had a page a mile long of absolute "do nots" then I would question why they are agreeing to any kind of tickling or other form of BDSM in the first place, if they had so many issues.
Other than that, I would totally respect a lees "hard limits" without question.

 

[The Sean Man]

Sorry to disappoint all the "footies" out there, but my feet are strictly off limits for two reasons:

1) They're not the slightest bit ticklish.

2) I hate my feet.

 

[lilyisticklish]

I really only have a few hard limits, no permanent markings, no water sports, umm I really don't have a whole lot of hard limits that I have discovered yet.

 

[Artoo]

Ticklingwise, I can only really consider something a hard limit if I've already had it done to me - I find myself being curious about certain things (such as having the roof of my mouth tickled) that I otherwise would not want to happen to me.

In the whole spectrum of BDSM, several things I consider hard limits, either through them being dangerous or a massive turn-off.

 

[ticklebrowse26]

hmmm

By the time I am a 'lee with a woman, she and I will have already discussed our wants/needs and we'll be on the same page about what a scene will entail. Heavy, no-holds barred tickle torture. Right on.

That being said, no one is allowed to go near my butt (the cheeks are fair game... I refer to .... ehem... you know). It's not that it's too ticklish or not ticklish... it's just horrifying for me to be touched on that one-way exit. Call it a hard limit, if you will... but some things are just not negotiable, even as a tied-down 'lee under a cruel 'ler.

 

[WheresThe Clip?]

What I find slightly scary about this thread is that I have what I thought were a couple of hard limits as a Lee. However people in this thread keep mentioning new ones that I haven't though of before, but would DEFINATELY be a hard limit. Does that mean that if you hadn't thought of them at the time the Domme would have carte blanche to do whatever.

On another point I regularly look at other bondage S&M forums, out of research purposes as well as to follow another couple of interests I have, and it is amazing (as someone has mentioned already) how for most hard core S&M Pain Sluts (male or female) tickling is an absolute hard limit.

 

[Adam]

What I find slightly scary about this thread is that I have what I thought were a couple of hard limits as a Lee. However people in this thread keep mentioning new ones that I haven't though of before, but would DEFINATELY be a hard limit. Does that mean that if you hadn't thought of them at the time the Domme would have carte blanche to do whatever.

On another point I regularly look at other bondage S&M forums, out of research purposes as well as to follow another couple of interests I have, and it is amazing (as someone has mentioned already) how for most hard core S&M Pain Sluts (male or female) tickling is an absolute hard limit.

Concerning your first point, I'd love to know that as well. Perhaps someone who is an experienced domme or submissive can clarify this? It has to be something that has come up before with someone, somewhere. I can also imagine that when it has, it has caused a big problem. 'Course maybe I'm wrong.

About tickling being a hard limit for some, I suppose that falls under different strokes for different folks. Personally, I'd much rather be tickled than have my balls put in a vise or something, but that's just me.