BDSM kills yet another

drew70 · Oct 27, 2008

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/02/26/qc-sadomacho-stbruno.html

<blockquote>A Quebec man may face criminal charges after a woman died while they were having sadomasochistic sex.

The 39-year-old woman died Saturday night in a home in Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville on Montreal's South Shore, police said.

She went into cardiac arrest while engaging in "out of the ordinary" sexual practices using "very particular" accessories, said Longueuil police agent Martin Simard.

When police arrived at the residence on Sommet-Trinité Street, the man was trying to resuscitate the woman, but she died, Simard said.

Police say they found torture devices in the homes, but would not give specifics.

The man was arrested and questioned but released without charge, police said.

Investigators are waiting for the autopsy report to determine if he'll be charged with criminal negligence causing death.</blockquote>Looks like the Montreal Police didn't get the "two consenting adults" memo. Somebody want to get on that?
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TMF Jeff · Oct 27, 2008

Be honest... do you have this same reaction when people die during ordinary consensual sex or other ordinary daily activities? What about motorcycles? Everytime someone dies on a bike, do you think to yourself "nobody should ride those?" What about other supposedly normal things?

venray · Oct 27, 2008

And the story itself is vague at best....alluding to accessories with no specifics provided..and no mention of the couple being a part of the lifestyle itself...for all we know it was an inexperienced couple experimenting....

This is quite a stretch blaming the BDSM lifestyle on the death and not blaming the people involved...

ViperGTS · Oct 27, 2008

Please show me the part where they directly relate her HEART ATTACK to the sex they were having.

Otherwise, this thread is a completely pointless waste of TMF webspace.

Headsnap · Oct 27, 2008

She went into cardiac arrest while engaging in "out of the ordinary" sexual practices using "very particular" accessories, said Longueuil police agent Martin Simard.

...........

Investigators are waiting for the autopsy report to determine if he'll be charged with criminal negligence causing death.

That sort of suggests the authorities think there was a link between the two. Obviously they can't prove anything yet, hence the investigation. Whether it's linked or not I think heart attacks are "one of those things"; she could've had the heart attack walking to work or whatever, especially if she was unhealthy and suchlike. I don't think this is a case of BDSM claiming a life, I think credit for this kill likely belongs to Ronald McDonald.

Drew, I think you need a new perspective on BDSM. Perhaps the following unbiased article I found on the intertubes will help you understand:

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/BDSM

ViperGTS · Oct 27, 2008

Headsnap said:
That sort of suggests the authorities think there was a link between the two.

They think.

I agree, heart attacks "happen." One has nothing to do with the other.

drew70 · Oct 27, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
Be honest... do you have this same reaction when people die during ordinary consensual sex or other ordinary daily activities? What about motorcycles? Everytime someone dies on a bike, do you think to yourself "nobody should ride those?" What about other supposedly normal things?

If by "this same reaction" you are referring to me starting a thread about it, no I guess I don't. It's just that it seems that there is a strong push in support of BDSM over the last couple of years. At least two of the weekly TMF Radio shows are fully devoted to it. At least half of the TMF staff is fully into it.

I think that like anything else, BDSM is something can be done safely and in moderation. But there are two disturbing trends I've identified.

1) The movement away from SSC (Safe Sane and Consensual) as the Golden Rule of Thumb for any BDSM activies. Now days, many prefer to go by RACK (Risk Aware Consentual Kink). The mindset I've seen expressed is that nothing is 100% safe so we threw that notion out the window, and who's to say what qualifies as "sanity" so we threw that out the window as well.

2) The compulsion of veteran SMers to teach and spread the "gospel" as it were. As I noted above there are two TMF radio shows devoted to BDSM. Many BDSM enthusiests are fully convinced that it is impossible to fully understand BDSM and dismiss it's potential value. Hence, anybody who disapproves or thinks it's weird can only do so if they don't understand it. So they want to "educate" the rest. You know, to put our minds "at ease." :illogical

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drew70 · Oct 27, 2008

Headsnap said:
That sort of suggests the authorities think there was a link between the two. Obviously they can't prove anything yet, hence the investigation. Whether it's linked or not I think heart attacks are "one of those things"; she could've had the heart attack walking to work or whatever, especially if she was unhealthy and suchlike. I don't think this is a case of BDSM claiming a life, I think credit for this kill likely belongs to Ronald McDonald.

Drew, I think you need a new perspective on BDSM. Perhaps the following unbiased article I found on the intertubes will help you understand:

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/BDSM

Haha. Best definition I've ever seen!

ViperGTS said:
Please show me the part where they directly relate her HEART ATTACK to the sex they were having.

Otherwise, this thread is a completely pointless waste of TMF webspace.

If you feel the thread is a waste of webspace then you have my permission and blessing to leave the thread and never return. Buh bye.
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ViperGTS · Oct 27, 2008

drew70 said:
If you feel the thread is a waste of webspace then you have my permission and blessing to leave the thread and never return. Buh bye.

I don't need to get permission from a sub to do anything, but thanks anyway.

I'd still like to see a correlation between the heart attack and her death.

There is none. People have heart attacks during sex all the time. What KIND of sex has nothing to do with it.

At least they had a happy sex life.

TMF Jeff · Oct 27, 2008

drew70 said:
If by "this same reaction" you are referring to me starting a thread about it, no I guess I don't. It's just that it seems that there is a strong push in support of BDSM over the last couple of years. At least two of the weekly TMF Radio shows are fully devoted to it. At least half of the TMF staff is fully into it.

Well what I really meant was, does seeing people die during other activities make you think those activities are inappropriate, but I take your point about the support of bdsm.

tickledorange · Oct 27, 2008

Looks like someone forgot the safeword.

ViperGTS · Oct 27, 2008

tickledorange said:
Looks like someone forgot the safeword.

Oh snap.

Unless the safeword was *HURK!*

badreligion · Oct 27, 2008

If they were having " regular" sex this wouldnt have come to light the fact that it was BDSM is the only reason it got coverage because they wanna try to play it as being "weird" so thats why she died

Snail Shell · Oct 27, 2008

For the record, I'm not in favour of sex either. :jester:

Snail Shell

BellaRisa · Oct 27, 2008

I don't see where it says that this couple was engaged in BDSM. I read that there were 'torture' devices in the homes of the couples, and that police think they were doing something 'unusual', but that doesn't automatically mean these people were BDSM players. This would seem to have nothing to do with the well educated and risk-aware BDSM practices supported and promoted on this forum.

drew70 · Oct 27, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
Well what I really meant was, does seeing people die during other activities make you think those activities are inappropriate, but I take your point about the support of bdsm.

If I see the same activity causing death or even injury on any kind of regular basis, I tend to question it's value.

Some people will go to enormous lengths for a thrill. At some point, a line is crossed between reasonable risk and downright foolishness. People will inevitably disagree on where that line should be drawn.

For example. Some people like to ride motorcycles without helmets. Many hardcore bikers resent the laws requiring such helmets. Others regard riding without a helmet as total insanity. They may not even be riders themselves, but will still enact laws demanding the helmets be worn. The detractors believe they should be able to make their own decisions on safety.

I personally think BDSM should not be exempt from safety requirements simply because it's personal, sexual, or between two consenting adults.
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Headsnap · Oct 27, 2008

Having read the actual thing I'm beginning to think everyone, myself included, is a bit premature in making any comment at all about this. There are no specifics whatsoever being given about anything aside from the cause of death and the activity they were engaged in. Obviously you can draw your own conclusions based on your own prejudices, but you can't really comment definitively either way until you know more facts. I think reading the article from Encyclopedia Dramatica would help us all in this situation.

heyoka · Oct 27, 2008

Hmmmmm.....

Ok, let me preface here... For those who are not already aware, I am not into what most would refer to as BDSM. It's simply not my thing. But, at the same time, I have nothing against it as long as it's enjoyed safely, sanely and consentually. I also don't feel that we should dictate what others should or shouldn't be into.

Now Drew, before you come back to tell me that this is not what you're attempting to do, allow me to point out the reason for saying that.

You and I happen to enjoy tickling. We even allow folks to tie us up at times when we play. That's taking it beyond tickling and into bondage. Be careful! That's part of the BDSM lifestyle. We might get hurt!

You see my point? Even you and I, who are NOT into BDSM, cross over in some of what we do. Others here do the same. Why should we be the only ones allowed to persue what works for us? And, if we're going to be concerned about heart attacks, tickling is likely to cause that if pushed too far as well. Should we disown our love of tickling?

Bottom line about the risk... People can get hurt doing anything if it's not done with the proper safety in mind. And, even then, accidents can and do happen.

As for discussing things here on the forum and in the radio shows, I fully support it. Here's why...

- There are people here who mix it in with their tickle play. That alone makes it a valid topic for discussion.

- In putting together the directories on the 411 site, most of the video producers out there include BDSM themes in what they offer. Why not answer the questions that may raise for those who are less familiar with it? Or, should we leave them to their ignorance and the greater possibility of someone getting hurt?

- If the reason for concern truly is safety, then introducing people to the reality of what it's about rather than the image many have of it can only help in that.

just my two cents

venray · Oct 27, 2008

heyoka (AKA TklDuo-Ann) said:
As for discussing things here on the forum and in the radio shows, I fully support it. Here's why...

- There are people here who mix it in with their tickle play. That alone makes it a valid topic for discussion.

- If the reason for concern truly is safety, then introducing people to the reality of what it's about rather than the image many have of it can only help in that.

just my two cents

Couldnt agree more. Also "discussing" the lifestyle on the radio programs is not necessarily "promoting" it. Any are welcome to call into the shows done with comments and questions....

-Hari- · Oct 27, 2008

Oh dear, This is all the BDSM community needs, Over in the uk its a BDSM related death that lead to the banning of violent porn, if the media keep making such a big deal about it then theyl soon try to illegalise the entire activity.

People can die doing anything, media...meh, this is a good example of why I dont read the news.

TMF Jeff · Oct 27, 2008

What would be an example of a safety requirement in a sexual relationship between two people? Witnesses? Or are you suggesting that there are some things that even when they are completely private, should simply not be allowed?

drew70 said:
I personally think BDSM should not be exempt from safety requirements simply because it's personal, sexual, or between two consenting adults.
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ViperGTS · Oct 27, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
What would be an example of a safety requirement in a sexual relationship between two people? Witnesses? Or are you suggesting that there are some things that even when they are completely private, should simply not be allowed?

Maybe we should get some referee's, so they can blow their little whistle and say, "ILLEGAL PENETRATION DURING BINDING" and throw a little yellow flag at the Top's schlong.

AngelOfDarkness · Oct 27, 2008

ViperGTS said:
Maybe we should get some referee's, so they can blow their little whistle and say, "ILLEGAL PENETRATION DURING BINDING" and throw a little yellow flag at the Top's schlong.

Bwahahahah! Nice one, Vip!

On topic, I happen to enjoy BDSM, so I think it's sad when something non-related occurs and results in death, and the "taboo" idea is presented as the culprit, when it is clearly not.

heyoka · Oct 27, 2008

OK, now I have an image of Mark with a flag hanging down. My eyes! My eyes!!! Thank God for flags!!! :imouttahe

BellaRisa · Oct 27, 2008

ViperGTS said:
Maybe we should get some referee's, so they can blow their little whistle and say, "ILLEGAL PENETRATION DURING BINDING" and throw a little yellow flag at the Top's schlong.

Ok, now I REALLY want you at my party :devil:

BDSM kills yet another

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