Extremely Important Info For Fetish Models and Fetish Producers

[KittenToes]

I haven't been on here much at all in the past couple years, but I do occasionally drop by with something important, and I think this is.

As a fetish and bondage model myself, I know the most important thing for my colleagues and me is to feel safe and respected on a shoot. And while my own experiences haven't been bad, I know that a small percentage of shoots can involve awkwardness between model and producer. I've never had a problem stating my limits up front and sticking to them, and because I've been firm, polite, and businesslike the people I've shot with have always been respectful. While I have had a few shoots that felt a bit awkward, I've never felt in danger.

One rather amusing example of an awkward (and very British) shoot occurred in London, when an amateur photographer reached out to me via a model site, wanting to shoot some art nude work in a studio and providing the model, Ariel, that I've mentioned below, as a character reference. She confirmed that he was " harmless, a bit shy, but don't expect to get any good photos for your own use from the session- he's not good technically"

So, I scheduled the shoot. The location was the "South Plumstead Camera Club" (obviously his choice- he was a member...) We started off the shoot with some standard lighthearted cheesecake/pinup stuff and I think he had me doing a bit "en pointe" as he'd asked if i'd bring my ballet shoes along. After about 15 minutes, he kept asking me if I wanted tea. I wasn't thirsty but, it was England, so I accepted. I figured we'd take a small tea break and keep shooting after, so I put on my robe to sit and drink the tea. He asked me, a bit nervously, if I wouldn't mind drinking my tea naked. I said " Oh! So you want to shoot a naked tea party? OK." He said no, he didn't want to photograph me at that time, he just wanted to sit and have tea with a "beautiful naked woman".

Harmless enough, but I was there to be photographed, so gently insisted that while we chatted, he snap some photos of me drinking the tea.

A couple weeks later, I ran into Ariel and mentioned "the tea guy". She was embarrassed and said she'd forgotten all about his little "naked tea parties" and was sorry she hadn't told me! She found it very funny that I made him photograph me having tea. But after all- while it was absolutely harmless, I was there to shoot- NOT fulfill a fantasy! I believe when SHE shot with him, she'd just had naked tea without insisting on photo evidence thereof. She IS a posh English girl, after all, and one NEVER refuses tea...

OK, funny but true story. Now back to the important main topic.

Looking over Libertine's shoulder the other night, I happened to see a thread, probably one of many, on the topic of "creepy producers". While browsing, I was happy to see some very considerate and intelligent responses from the producers who had joined the thread , presumably to defend their reputations. One comment stood out to me, quoted below, from "lioclips". Thank you, lioclips, for your professionalism.

My answer always begins the same: Be professional. That means, despite what many believe, a shoot is not a session. At least not for me. Radical as it sounds, I see model/talent as a partner to help create a work, not a sexual outlet. I can't think of 5 models I worked with who did not want to do another shoot with me. If there was a model who was one and done, it's almost certainly because her material didn't sell.

This quote is from the below post.

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showth...out-M-F-tickling-videos&p=4433379#post4433379

This, my dear prospective video producers, is what EVERY model wants to hear. A SHOOT IS NOT A SESSION!!! IT'S CREATING A WORK! IT'S BEING PROFESSIONAL! Even if the product is intended for somebody's spank bank, that somebody is not you.

Tonight, I was watching a YouTube video made by the VERY well established English fetish model Ariel Anderssen, who Libertine and I have both known personally for about 15 years, and with whom we've both worked on a couple films. I've also done promotional work with her for several years at Erotica, a huge annual adult tradeshow in London. This woman is a consummate professional. Now in her early forties, she's been in the industry for over 20 years.

She's done a huge spectrum of most types of fetish work, and has even appeared twice in clips shot by our very own Turtleboy (UKTickling)!

In this video she addresses, over a half hour or so, an unpleasant experience she had with a photographer, one that she had actually shot with previously, with no issues the first time around.

She offers lots of advice for models on how to avoid a similar situation, and also addresses photographers/producers, on How Not To Be "That Guy".

Some of you may think that as long as you yourself don't physically touch the model in a way she hasn't agreed to, that you are free and clear. This is not the case in the least. More often than not, the "creepy" label is applied for non-physical interactions. Not respecting previously agreed shoot parameters, joking around with people while they are in bondage, asking for more explicit posing than agreed, i.e, gynie shots.... the list goes on.

Fortunately very few photographers turn out to be Harvey Glatman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Glatman

Just watch the video. Ariel covers a LOT of the different ways a model can be made uncomfortable without any physical contact whatsoever occurring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ysxKTdvIAk&feature=youtu.be

I hope for those of you in the industry, on both sides of the camera, that this will be informative and that you'll take note of her advice.

I wish you all a profitable and pleasant next shoot!

 

[milagros317]

A fine post and a fascinating video. Thanks for the link.

 

[Park CollegeO]

I agree with your general point. But it's important to add that this goes both ways. I've had a F model make another F model uncomfortable with "non-physical interactions" and "joking around while in bondage".

This type of behavior is not exclusive to producers or photographers. It applies to models as well

FWIW, I do consider asking a model to drink tea naked off camera a physical type of interaction. Comment above is strictly about joking around

 

[Tenebrae]

First off, it is always a pleasure to see you here Do not hesitate to come back whenever you feel like!

Second, it was a very interesting post. I had never seen things from this angle; after all, there are other, much more cost-effective methods to tickle beautiful women than to set up a studio, isn't there? At least that is what I would think, but I am very clueless towards the business aspect of things.

The thing that strikes me the most from your post is that apparently, British ladies' love for tea not only equals mine, but even surpasses it. The image of the girl forgetting that she's naked while she enjoys her cup is pure gold Thank you for this. I really got to visit Britain some time~

 

[TMF Jeff]

That's such an important point to make - it's something I saw myself a fair amount when I was producing videos. People think that because they're paying the model for their time, they have certain privileges. They feel empowered because they're the one in a position of authority.

It will make a low-key bad person into a full-on creep, a full-on creep into a monster, and it will even make a shy little mouse of a human ask a woman he's never met before if she will drink tea naked in front of him purely for his own pleasure.

And because the model wants to get paid, she's trying to rock the boat as little as possible, which makes the other person feel even more entitled to indulge in whatever questionable behavior pops into their head.

As a producer, you have to monitor yourself and adopt a strictly professional attitude. Sure, on some level, we enjoy watching naked people cavort around and act out our fantasies. It's a fun and exciting part of an otherwise tedious and unrewarding business.

But that only makes it that much more important to be iron-clad in your rules about your own behavior. I don't think I ever touched a model without asking first, and I would always follow an instruction with "are you comfortable with that?" or "How do you feel about that?" And on many occasions, I made a judgement call to stop something where I felt the model was uncomfortable, even though she was telling us that she was fine.

I knew it was because she didn't want to upset everyone and slow everything down or cause other problems with the production.

One time a guy I was working with, a real timid guy as a matter of fact, completely out of nowhere grabbed the bottom of one of our model's shirt and lifted it up, and ran a feather across her boob, asking "Are your tits ticklish?"

I was so mad I almost threw a punch. I was taking Tae Kwon Do five days a week back then, and I remember having to force myself not to react physically to what I'd just seen.

Instead I asked him to step outside with me, where I told him that if I ever saw something like that again, I was going to not only never work with him again, but I was also going to beat him up right on the spot.

Then, adding insult to injury, twenty minutes later another model arrived and while my partner was in the kitchen I heard the one model telling the other "A half hour ago they lifted up my shirt and tickled my tit."

They.

So I immediately called him into the room and made him explain what had happened, and what I told him while we were outside.

Having power over someone is intoxicating. It's why there's so much trouble in business and the military too. But in the adult industry, it's magnified by the scope of what's acceptable, and the fact that some of the people are naked. Which is another thing that distorts the power balance - the fact that I'm fully clothed and the other person is completely nude.

And to come back around to the original post, models have to beware of that power disparity from the other side - they have to watch out for the temptation to just be agreeable, or go with the flow, or "get it over with."

I'm really impressed that kittentoes had the wherewithal to not only decline, but to pivot it into a professional context. That was a clever, and graceful was to handle it. Any version of no would have been appropriate, but this also reminded him of his professional responsibilities, and the real reason you were there in the first place.

 

[lioclips]

Great information KittenToes. Thanks for sharing and the professionalism I feel was nothing short of my duty. I almost feel like it should be required viewing both for any producers starting out but also models as well. Unfortunately, many models wouldn't take the time to watch. More than a few of my shoots ended up having some camera time sacrificed for a semi-lecture on safety brought on by their admission of the following:
1) Didn't check my references
2) Came to shoot with a stranger by themselves AND did not either A) Let another person know where, with whom and for how long they were shooting or B) have some protocol in place to let someone know they were safe.

I'm not sure any of my admonishments were taken to heart, but it never ceased to amaze me how many young women (some not SO young), would show up for a fetish shoot involving restraint, with someone they've never met; do so solo and without another's knowledge!

 

[turtleboy]

Some of you may think that as long as you yourself don't physically touch the model in a way she hasn't agreed to, that you are free and clear. This is not the case in the least. More often than not, the "creepy" label is applied for non-physical interactions. Not respecting previously agreed shoot parameters, joking around with people while they are in bondage, asking for more explicit posing than agreed, i.e, gynie shots.... the list goes on.

Yes very true. This is particularly the case with new or amateur photographers who may actually be quite nervous, but then seem to get overexcited and try things in the moment that are actually really inappropriate. I mentioned this in another thread, but photographers leaving the room and returning naked without any warning probably tops the list and seems to be a weirdly common occurance. Pushing levels or requests to try things that the model is clearly not going to be ok with. Demanding text messages before shoots, followed by lengthy phone calls just to go over everything that has been discussed again and/or creepy, gushing messages after the shoot. No model wants a message from a photographer saying that he 'can't get them out of his head' or some such. Some of the messages models receive from photographers make my skin crawl.

Another issue that frequently gets mentioned is where the photographer or producer barely speaks to the model. In some cases they may just see the model as there to do a job that their getting paid for, and so they feel that being friendly isn't really a requirement. In a lot of cases though I think it comes down to nervous or shy guys lacking in social skills, and it doesn't occur to them that the model may also be quite nervous and in need of at least some small-talk to put them at ease. I'm a naturally quiet person (I would always describe myself as an introvert), and yet I generally talk models' heads off on shoots. I continually make dumb jokes and offer endless cups of tea, just because I think it's really important that the model knows they're working with a human being, someone who's interested in them as a fellow human being, and that they can ask questions of.

Putting people at ease is absolutely essential, even more so when the model is very nervous or uptight. With these shoots that actually counts double, since you will not get very good tickle clips if the model is so tense she's ready to snap in half! The more relaxed/comfortable they are, the better the clips and the happier the shoot. Occasionally (thankfully not often) I'll get a model that has absolutely no social skills herself and nothing whatsoever going on, which can make for a really uncomfortable shoot. I'll still try and get some conversation going though, even if it's not reciprocated or they're the most boring person on earth

The thing that strikes me the most for your post is that apparently, British ladies' love for tea not only equals mine, but even surpasses it. The image of the girl forgetting that she's naked while she enjoys her cup is pure gold Thank you for this. I really got to visit Britain some time~

Not just ladies. Tea drinking is a national institution for us - what we lack in identifiable cuisine, we make up for in tea consumption. It's a necessary part of many social situations. The rest of the world's failure to provide cups of tea and/or know how to make it properly is probably the main reason why we tend to stay here in fact.

 

[Libertine]

Tea drinking is a national institution for us - what we lack in identifiable cuisine, we make up for in tea consumption. It's a necessary part of many social situations. The rest of the world's failure to provide cups of tea and/or know how to make it properly is probably the main reason why we tend to stay here in fact.

I'll have to agree. The two most prominent island races, the British and the Japanese, fetishise tea in a separate but equal way.

I believe, as Turtleboy has mentioned, that the American method of making tea (originally by throwing boxes of it into cold habour water in Boston, and later, in restaurants, by presenting a wrapped teabag next to a cup of lukewarm water in which the customer is then somehow supposed to steep it) has been THE major cause of rancour between our nations. No other differences could possibly be as serious.

Of course far more could be said on the subject, but this thread should not be hijacked any further.

Right! Aaas you were, yew 'orrible shower, thank Gawd we 'ave a Navy and let's get back on topic.

 

[Tenebrae]

I'll have to agree. The two most prominent island races, the British and the Japanese, fetishise tea in a separate but equal way.

I believe, as Turtleboy has mentioned, that the American method of making tea (originally by throwing boxes of it into cold habour water in Boston, and later, in restaurants, by presenting a wrapped teabag next to a cup of lukewarm water in which the customer is then somehow supposed to steep it) has been THE major cause of rancour between our nations. No other differences could possibly be as serious.

Of course far more could be said on the subject, but this thread should not be hijacked any further.

Right! Aaas you were, yew 'orrible shower, thank Gawd we 'ave a Navy and let's get back on topic.

Thank you both for your excellent sense of humour, and the cultural tidbits as well

I was watching this, laughing out loud, and thought of this thread: https://youtu.be/gVVyS3MAbAA

Cheers, gentlemen!

 

[milagros317]

Thank you both for your excellent sense of humour, and the cultural tidbits as well

I was watching this, laughing out loud, and thought of this thread: https://youtu.be/gVVyS3MAbAA

Cheers, gentlemen!

Hilarioous video! Thanks for the link.

 

[Oddjob0226]

A shoot can also be a session if it is negotiated ahead of time. Not on the spot.

 

[ISUmark]

I love these kind of posts. Very informative and has a cool behind the curtains kind of feel to it. With that being said my gf just got me into tea and I gotta say its fantastic. I didn't know what you guys on the other side of the pond were talkin about for so long. But now I do. I've just never had actual quality TEA like that before. The only basis for comparison I really had was the SUPER sweet Chai tea that the Iraqi Army dudes had when I was overseas. It was tasty but it felt like I was suckin on a sugar cube.