grammar difficulty – native speakers’ help needed

[Ickis]

What is correct pronunciation of the adjective “legged” (four-legged, cross-legged): /-gd/ or /-gid/?

Some dictionaries say both are possible, or even there is the same difference as in the case with “learned”:
“the lesson was learned” /-nd/ (verb), but “the professor is learned” /-nid/ (adjective).

The dictionary I rely on the most says that the pronunciation of “legged” always follows the standard rule and ends only /-gd/ both for the verb and the adjective: “We legged it out of the house” /-gd/, “a four-legged animal” /-gd/.

So I’m quite confused what is right.

 

[chicago]

I would say "four-legg-id" and "cross-legg-id," but I think the alternate pronunciation would be correct as well, though I can't remember ever really hearing anyone say it that way.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

I would pronounce it as two distinct syllables with the emphasis on the first. LEG-ged.

 

[Myriads]

For legged, both are valid, and used regionally. It's very much an individual thing for this word, and will be based on where the person grew up, and family history.

Most common is ~gd for the verb (a very rare use for the word, it's considered archaic now.) and ~gid for cross-legged or four-legged.

Myriads

 

[Ickis]

Thanks a lot!
I’ve never thought I could get the puzzle solved here - at the most unusual place for grammar!
And then please let me ask yet one more question:

When “make” is followed by another verb, meaning “force to do”, it is an infinitive without “to”:
“The rain made me stay at home.”

But is it possible to use a negative form of this construction, and if so, will it be with or without “to”:
“The rain made me not to go outside”, or
“The rain made me not go outside”?

It’s a pure riddle for me - I haven’t found the answer in any source I looked up.

 

[Hemmen]

It is possible to use a negative form, but it's not usually done. Most find it easier to use the positive form "made me stay at home/inside". To answer the second part of your question, the negative form would be used without "to": "The rain made me not go outside."

 

[Ickis]

Thank you!
These questions were really tricky for me.

 

[desdemona]

For grammar questions like these, check Strunk and White's Elements of Style. Lots of great writing tips.

 

[Ickis]

I've never heard of this book before. Google says it’s a useful one, so I’ll definitely look for it,
thank you, desdemona

 

[Nedstacey2]

Здравствуйте, Ickis! I’m glad to see you’ve already gotten several fine responses to your inquiries. I hope it all demonstrates this is not such a “most unusual place for grammar” after all. In fact, a few of us are actually language professionals, or grammar perverts, take your pick.

Yes, the business about when the English ending –ed is supposed to be pronounced as a syllable is indeed tricky. There are other examples like legged, e.g., aged, alleged, beloved, blessed, dogged and ragged, where the adjectival usage of these words prompts the –ed to be a separate syllable, in contrast to the pronunciation of the more straightforward verbal occurrences. In addition to the good explanations of the phenomenon already offered here, I might add that often in poetic diction –ed is syllabized when in normal prose it wouldn’t be, for metrical reasons typically; cf. O cursèd spite from Hamlet (I.v.211).

And as a Cornell University alumnus I wish I could heartily second desdemona’s justifiable recommendation of Elements of Style, but that famous little book is intended principally for native speakers of English, like the dimwitted Cornell students it was originally written for. As you well know, learners of English have their own special needs and problems, and for these allow me to suggest the tidy little volume English as a Second F*cking Language (yes, they actually printed a book with that title). It's a handy guide to swearing for the non-native, which unfortunately is becoming more and more of a component to proficiency in modern-day English.

 

[Ickis]

Thank you, Nedstacey2
Indeed, may by in my studying of the language I’ve deviated to the sort of a word collector's passion, not sleeping well until I possess the complete list of homophones or heteronyms.
Nevertheless, as far as I was told, all the -ed adjectives are pronounced according to the same rules (/-d/, /-t/, or /-id/) as verbs or participles, except only few exceptions. I’ve heard of 14 such /-id/ adjectives (aged, beloved, blessed, crooked, cursed, dogged, jagged, learned, naked, peaked, ragged, rugged, wicked, wretched, – with legged there are 15), but I couldn’t find the whole list of them – good reason to develop a feeling of inferiority.

And the book you recommend – it seems more like an upper-intermediate students’ textbook, while I’d be glad to be better at irregular verbs first. In any case, the Russian edition of such an opus would be much, much thicker, adding a whole bookshelf of countless volumes to the universal art of swearing.

 

[desdemona]

And as a Cornell University alumnus I wish I could heartily second desdemona’s justifiable recommendation of Elements of Style, but that famous little book is intended principally for native speakers of English, like the dimwitted Cornell students it was originally written for. As you well know, learners of English have their own special needs and problems, and for these allow me to suggest the tidy little volume English as a Second F*cking Language (yes, they actually printed a book with that title). It's a handy guide to swearing for the non-native, which unfortunately is becoming more and more of a component to proficiency in modern-day English.

Point taken... I had failed to notice his location when I posted. I still have my copy from high school/college - hell, I had to take tests on the damn thing in the 10th grade. I was not aware it was a Cornell collaboration - you do at least have a decent veterinary college there, and one that appreciates felines 😉 And swearing is an art not for the faint of heart - to learn the best French swearing, I picked up Stephen King novels and started reading - what an education! Or try some of the raunchier movies/tv shows with - with subtitles. Lots of ways to learn - auditory and visual 🙂

 

[tickledorange]

Either way is fine. Most people would understand either way you said it.

 

[Nedstacey2]

Thank you, Nedstacey2 . . . as far as I was told, all the -ed adjectives are pronounced according to the same rules (/-d/, /-t/, or /-id/) as verbs or participles, except only few exceptions. I’ve heard of 14 such /-id/ adjectives (aged, beloved, blessed, crooked, cursed, dogged, jagged, learned, naked, peaked, ragged, rugged, wicked, wretched, – with legged there are 15), but I couldn’t find the whole list of them – good reason to develop a feeling of inferiority.

Пожалуйста, Ickis. Yes, you list some other good examples, but I didn't include some of them in my original reply as I was thinking only of -ed [ɪd] adjectives with existing corresponding verb forms in -ed. That is, in Modern Standard English (which then doesn't exclude possible diachronic or dialectal occurrences) we don't have the verbs *to crook, *to nake, *to peak, *to rug nor *to wretch.

 

[Nedstacey2]

Point taken... I had failed to notice his location when I posted. I still have my copy from high school/college - hell, I had to take tests on the damn thing in the 10th grade. I was not aware it was a Cornell collaboration - you do at least have a decent veterinary college there, and one that appreciates felines 😉

No problem at all, desdemona; sorry for any misunderstanding. Yes, Cornell's "Vet School" is well known up here, producing just about all the practicing veterinarians in my area. Indeed, I think my late wife and I have single-handedly paid off a lot of DVMs' student loans with all the times we've had to drag our critters in for varieties of care.

Their Companion Animal Hospital is first-class too. I know because we had a cat with intestinal blockage that we took there for emergency treatment; the cat came through all nice and cleaned out, and so were we with a $6,000 bill. 🙁 😉

Given these experiences, as a veterinary professional can you recommend for me a good source of pet medical insurance? 🙂

 

[Libertine]

To answer the second part of your question, the negative form would be used without "to": "The rain made me not go outside."

This is an awkward way of putting it and would never be used in everyday conversation. "The rain kept me in", sounds more natural.

For three pleasant days of free English tuition by native speakers, along with highly interesting extracurricular activities, come to NEST next May.

 

[Hemmen]

This is an awkward way of putting it and would never be used in everyday conversation. "The rain kept me in", sounds more natural.

That's pretty much what I said at the beginning of my post.

 

[desdemona]

No problem at all, desdemona; sorry for any misunderstanding. Yes, Cornell's "Vet School" is well known up here, producing just about all the practicing veterinarians in my area. Indeed, I think my late wife and I have single-handedly paid off a lot of DVMs' student loans with all the times we've had to drag our critters in for varieties of care.

Their Companion Animal Hospital is first-class too. I know because we had a cat with intestinal blockage that we took there for emergency treatment; the cat came through all nice and cleaned out, and so were we with a $6,000 bill. 🙁 😉

Given these experiences, as a veterinary professional can you recommend for me a good source of pet medical insurance? 🙂

I sure can!! There are several good pet medical insurance companies out there - the most common ones that I deal with are VPI, Trupanion, and Embrace (http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/compare). Each company's site does a nice chart comparing itself to the competition (making themselves look better, of course). But shopping around is a good idea. I know Marty Becker is endorsing Embrace now and encouraging all pet owners to consider pet insurance - policies can cover routine examinations to extensive, emergency surgeries. I'm glad to hear your cat made it through its intestinal blockage successfully!!

Now back to our thread... I think it's great that you want to work on improving your English, Ickis! Best of luck!

 

[Nedstacey2]

I sure can!! There are several good pet medical insurance companies out there - the most common ones that I deal with are VPI, Trupanion, and Embrace (http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/compare). Each companies site does a nice chart comparing itself to the competition (making themselves look better, of course). But shopping around is a good idea. I know Marty Becker is endorsing Embrace now and encouraging all pet owners to consider pet insurance - policies can cover routine examinations to extensive, emergency surgeries.

Thank you so much for those recommendations and info.!

I'm glad to hear your cat made it through its intestinal blockage successfully!!

I appreciate that too, but sadly even the experts at their Feline Health Center, as you noted, ultimately couldn't save her from her chronic condition, which eventually proved fatal. Was a miserable way to die for that fat old cat. :

 

[Frowg]

This is actually a question of regional dialect. Some English speakers will say leg-ged, and some will pronounce it legd, and both are correct.