How can the chat room cost $1200/year?

[NiceGuy833]

First of all, I'm not here to complain about the chat fund drive or the chatroom. I'm very grateful that it exists and I might get around to donating some money if I fit a visit to the post office into my busy schedule.

I'm just wondering how that thing can cost $1200 per year to keep running. Even though I'm grateful that it's there, I have to admit that it's one of the lousiest chat programs I've ever seen. I don't know how a chatroom that only services at most 25 people at once and usually about 8 or so can cost that much money. I don't think they're paying anyone to patch the program and I see chatrooms up on private websites that are able to run for years unmanned.

Once again, I'm not complaining about the money. I'm just wondering how on earth it can cost so much.

 

[Myriads]

Find me a cheeper one that is as secure.

We are paying for a room that is secure from trolling attacks. If you were not here three years ago you have no idea how our room was almost made unusable by some folks, This room we have excellent control over such issues.

Show me better (or the same) for cheeper.

Myriads

 

[slacker2114]

Not that he needs it, but I can back Myr up on that one. The room we had a few years ago, while fun, was under constant bombardment from trolls. And I do mean CONSTANT. For that one, people didn't have to be members of the forum. Anyone could enter under any name, even multiple times at once. It was a friggin nightmare for the chatters as well as the mods. So this one they have now, while annoying at times, is much more secure and they get much less troll traffic. So if it costs $1200 a year, most likely it's because they're paying for security.

 

[Mitchell]

Myriads is 100% correct on this. Four years ago, when I first joined, the old insecure room was awful. Trolls, such as the one Myriads mentioned, would perpetually enter the room under different screen names, and type the most abusive and vile things in the main room, disrupting the chat constantly. Additionally, and I hope Myriads doesnt mind me bringing this up, because I was a victim of this, as were several others. On one occasion, one of the trolls posed as both an underage member, and a "cop", and attempted to scare the shit out of both me and a few other members, by entering the chat, chatting with people, and, if we forgot to ask how old the person was, then revealing that they were a "cop", and were ready to prosecute for talking sex with minors. As it turned out, the admins reported to me after my experience with such, that it was all a hoax from trolls. Several of my friends had the same experience I did.
The secure chat is needed, to attempt to keep all members under one screen name, and legitimate, and aid in restoring order.
For those of us here when those experiences happened, trust me, Myriads knows what he is saying.

Mitch

 

[brianspencer66]

Yes it was pretty dreadful, racist and sexist insults were hurled around on a daily basis, some quite shocking things were said.

 

[drew70]

Personally, I liked the old chat room better. Sure, there were occasional trolls, but I always felt they made things more interesting. In my opinion, the added "security" isn't worth it. Exactly what are we being secured from? It's not like they are picking pockets or snatching purses.

It never ceases to amaze me how people perceive such injury from "trolls." I can't help but be reminded of kindergarten kids on the playground, and every now and then one comes crying to the teacher that Billy said something mean to me! That kind of insecurity is understandable in children, but to see it in adults is really kind of sad.

And yet here at the TMF it's a daily occurrance. Somebody says something hurtful, maybe brutally honest, and we're ever so quick to click on the triangle to tell the teacher instead of dealing with it ourselves.

I've said it many times before, and it's still true today. The TMF doesn't need forum moderators, and we don't need chatroom security. Noble efforts I'll acknowlege, but completely unnecessary.

 

[Mimi]

As a chat moderator and a forum moderator, I am EXTREMELY grateful for the level of security and moderation we enjoy both in the chat room and on the forum. Most of us would not be here without it, and it would be a repeat of AMT Hell.

The chat room is expensive, yes. But it was the best and most secure we could find at a time when it was absolutely crucial we did SOMETHING to stop the trolling, attacks, screen ID theft, and extreme slander that was taking place.

 

[jk666uk]

Personally, I liked the old chat room better. Sure, there were occasional trolls, but I always felt they made things more interesting. In my opinion, the added "security" isn't worth it. Exactly what are we being secured from? It's not like they are picking pockets or snatching purses.

It never ceases to amaze me how people perceive such injury from "trolls." I can't help but be reminded of kindergarten kids on the playground, and every now and then one comes crying to the teacher that Billy said something mean to me! That kind of insecurity is understandable in children, but to see it in adults is really kind of sad.

And yet here at the TMF it's a daily occurrance. Somebody says something hurtful, maybe brutally honest, and we're ever so quick to click on the triangle to tell the teacher instead of dealing with it ourselves.

I've said it many times before, and it's still true today. The TMF doesn't need forum moderators, and we don't need chatroom security. Noble efforts I'll acknowlege, but completely unnecessary.

true well said

 

[Myriads]

Personally, I liked the old chat room better. Sure, there were occasional trolls, but I always felt they made things more interesting. In my opinion, the added "security" isn't worth it. Exactly what are we being secured from? It's not like they are picking pockets or snatching purses.

What were/are people being secured from?

Let's see. I remember trolls taking on peoples names (as the room was unsecure, one could choose any name on entry except the handful of locked mod names) and destroying reputations, and in some cases friendships. To have a discussion with some one, you'd need to have set up a friggen countersign code just so you could know you were talking to the 'real' person. Try and remember a few dozen of those. It made things very annoying.

One person on a bad day came to the room looking for a friend to talk to, and got a troll with the friends name instead. She had the 'fun' experience of being emotionaly gutted by the troll when she was vulnerable, and was left amazingly despondent over how her friend' treated them, and was left suicidal. I know, as I did the five hours of crisis counceling myself to help them when I wandered into the situation. They left the copmmunity not long after. A shame, she was a friendly nice person.

I remember nights when the room would be screen after screen of cut and pasted racial insults. As fast as a name would get tagged and booted they would return with another. Normal chat was impossible.

A special pleasure were the trolls that pretended to be children younger then 10 who would either solicite sexual activities or react in shocked horror to that fact that this was an adult room. Once they got a rise out of anyone we'd return to the screen fulls of insults and racial slurs. There was the troll who would log in with two accounts, one a 'child', then the second the 'parent' who discovered their kid here. They would toss about drama, insult the sexuality of all in the room, threaten legal issues, and in general spoil folks eve. Sometimes the 'parent' would be a 'law enforcement' person instead.

Basically the room was made unusable by however many of these folks there were playing games. One couldn't have anything near a positive experience in the room.

These people effectivly made the 'experience' of being in the TMF chat so unpleasent that most users were stopping their visits to the room.

I guess you consider this a positive outcome for some reason. We sort of didn't. We hoped that the room would be a place where people could intereact with ease and relax and enjoy themselves. It had become a place where that was near impossible.

So we had a chat room that was no good for chatting.

There are people in the world who like to walk into a place and take a nice big shit in the middle of the floor just to see what will happen. It's how they get their own form of jollies.

Rational people know how to deal with such childish behavior. They ignore it. And most do. But after a bit, the stink from all the shit, the annoyance at having to constantly having to be on high alert as to not step into any of it, and the demorilizing experience of seeing people crap on something you care about puts people off. They go look for recreation that is more fun and less annoying.

And that's the basic argument for moderated and secure forums. A handfull of shit tossers will make a place no fun to be, and drive off the others who simply want to use the place as it was meant to, and enjoy.

Tell me, was AMT a better experience once it drowned under the spam? Why spend time here when that unmoderated community is still there for you to enjoy?

Anarchy is always more interesting. But it's not conducive to building a community.

It never ceases to amaze me how people perceive such injury from "trolls." I can't help but be reminded of kindergarten kids on the playground, and every now and then one comes crying to the teacher that Billy said something mean to me! That kind of insecurity is understandable in children, but to see it in adults is really kind of sad.

And yet here at the TMF it's a daily occurrance. Somebody says something hurtful, maybe brutally honest, and we're ever so quick to click on the triangle to tell the teacher instead of dealing with it ourselves.

At it's most simple, tattling blows, and one-off issues are just that, things that most people walk off, I don't see much modding of low end stuff. Most people don't report it. But more often then I like to say, the bully behavior is continuous and non ending. A person or group gets hit again and again and again. Without a staff to stand behind the individual or group exits. And then ones community is being defined by it's lowest aspects.

A community needs rules to function and grow in any sort of effective way, and as a percent of people will ignore said rules, one needs people to make sure that things are dealt with. This is the same sort of issue any community has faced as it formed. Point me out one of those successful anarchy based communities out there today. Show me one on the globe that is functioning.

In a utopian world your unmoderated idea would be the way to go. No questions. Sadly we run a forum in a far from utopian setting. We make due.

I've said it many times before, and it's still true today. The TMF doesn't need forum moderators, and we don't need chatroom security. Noble efforts I'll acknowlege, but completely unnecessary.

Then why is it that the moderated forums like us and the theatre are the ones that continue to effectivly exist on the web as living growing communities?

Why have all the open unmodded places bleed out of users?

Why is it that for the first time in this fetishes history, places like the TMF show a measurable and growing female memberbase that seems to feel comfortable enough to speak and interect?

Perhaps it due to the fact that moderated communites allow for more socialy timid people to interect with a feeling of security. And for many, being open about a fetish is a challenge of huge size already. Just contemplating saying it gives many pause. Here they can find a place to find some footing.

Why is the TMF moderated?

Because we have chosen to build a place that is here for the majority of people who wish to use it to relax, enjoy, and learn from.

We did NOT build it for the small handful of neo-barbarians who get pleasure out of being destructive, and have a fine time breaking things just to hear them shatter, and seeing others who care be upset.

It's that simple.

Myriads

 

[jk666uk]

Personally, I liked the old chat room better. Sure, there were occasional trolls, but I always felt they made things more interesting. In my opinion, the added "security" isn't worth it. Exactly what are we being secured from? It's not like they are picking pockets or snatching purses.

What were/are people being secured from?

Let's see. I remember trolls taking on peoples names (as the room was unsecure, one could choose any name on entry except the handful of locked mod names) and destroying reputations, and in some cases friendships. To have a discussion with some one, you'd need to have set up a friggen countersign code just so you could know you were talking to the 'real' person. Try and remember a few dozen of those. It made things very annoying.

One person on a bad day came to the room looking for a friend to talk to, and got a troll with the friends name instead. She had the 'fun' experience of being emotionaly gutted by the troll when she was vulnerable, and was left amazingly despondent over how her friend' treated them, and was left suicidal. I know, as I did the five hours of crisis counceling myself to help them when I wandered into the situation. They left the copmmunity not long after. A shame, she was a friendly nice person.

I remember nights when the room would be screen after screen of cut and pasted racial insults. As fast as a name would get tagged and booted they would return with another. Normal chat was impossible.

A special pleasure were the trolls that pretended to be children younger then 10 who would either solicite sexual activities or react in shocked horror to that fact that this was an adult room. Once they got a rise out of anyone we'd return to the screen fulls of insults and racial slurs. There was the troll who would log in with two accounts, one a 'child', then the second the 'parent' who discovered their kid here. They would toss about drama, insult the sexuality of all in the room, threaten legal issues, and in general spoil folks eve. Sometimes the 'parent' would be a 'law enforcement' person instead.

Basically the room was made unusable by however many of these folks there were playing games. One couldn't have anything near a positive experience in the room.

These people effectivly made the 'experience' of being in the TMF chat so unpleasent that most users were stopping their visits to the room.

I guess you consider this a positive outcome for some reason. We sort of didn't. We hoped that the room would be a place where people could intereact with ease and relax and enjoy themselves. It had become a place where that was near impossible.

So we had a chat room that was no good for chatting.

There are people in the world who like to walk into a place and take a nice big shit in the middle of the floor just to see what will happen. It's how they get their own form of jollies.

Rational people know how to deal with such childish behavior. They ignore it. And most do. But after a bit, the stink from all the shit, the annoyance at having to constantly having to be on high alert as to not step into any of it, and the demorilizing experience of seeing people crap on something you care about puts people off. They go look for recreation that is more fun and less annoying.

And that's the basic argument for moderated and secure forums. A handfull of shit tossers will make a place no fun to be, and drive off the others who simply want to use the place as it was meant to, and enjoy.

Tell me, was AMT a better experience once it drowned under the spam? Why spend time here when that unmoderated community is still there for you to enjoy?

Anarchy is always more interesting. But it's not conducive to building a community.

It never ceases to amaze me how people perceive such injury from "trolls." I can't help but be reminded of kindergarten kids on the playground, and every now and then one comes crying to the teacher that Billy said something mean to me! That kind of insecurity is understandable in children, but to see it in adults is really kind of sad.

And yet here at the TMF it's a daily occurrance. Somebody says something hurtful, maybe brutally honest, and we're ever so quick to click on the triangle to tell the teacher instead of dealing with it ourselves.

At it's most simple, tattling blows, and one-off issues are just that, things that most people walk off, I don't see much modding of low end stuff. Most people don't report it. But more often then I like to say, the bully behavior is continuous and non ending. A person or group gets hit again and again and again. Without a staff to stand behind the individual or group exits. And then ones community is being defined by it's lowest aspects.

A community needs rules to function and grow in any sort of effective way, and as a percent of people will ignore said rules, one needs people to make sure that things are dealt with. This is the same sort of issue any community has faced as it formed. Point me out one of those successful anarchy based communities out there today. Show me one on the globe that is functioning.

In a utopian world your unmoderated idea would be the way to go. No questions. Sadly we run a forum in a far from utopian setting. We make due.

I've said it many times before, and it's still true today. The TMF doesn't need forum moderators, and we don't need chatroom security. Noble efforts I'll acknowlege, but completely unnecessary.

Then why is it that the moderated forums like us and the theatre are the ones that continue to effectivly exist on the web as living growing communities?

Why have all the open unmodded places bleed out of users?

Why is it that for the first time in this fetishes history, places like the TMF show a measurable and growing female memberbase that seems to feel comfortable enough to speak and interect?

Perhaps it due to the fact that moderated communites allow for more socialy timid people to interect with a feeling of security. And for many, being open about a fetish is a challenge of huge size already. Just contemplating saying it gives many pause. Here they can find a place to find some footing.

Why is the TMF moderated?

Because we have chosen to build a place that is here for the majority of people who wish to use it to relax, enjoy, and learn from.

We did NOT build it for the small handful of neo-barbarians who get pleasure out of being destructive, and have a fine time breaking things just to hear them shatter, and seeing others who care be upset.

It's that simple.

Myriads

all people have to do is stick up for themself
if someone gives you shit you give it back simple

 

[lk70]

I'll chime in. I've received some unpleasant PMs. I've been annoyed in the chat room. I've read some posts that I felt were inappropriate.

I'm one of those folks who doesn't have any trouble clicking delete, or closing a thread and moving on. I haven't yet felt the need to report anyone or anything.

If I were to get a lot more unpleasant PMs...if every time I tried to relax and read threads here all I found was a bunch of off topic, rude or disgusting comments, I wouldn't report it. I'd leave and I'd never look back. And I'd miss out on meeting all the cool people I've met and the ones I have yet to meet.

I'd have missed meeting you Drew!

I've visited a couple other TK related sites and ran away so fast all you could see was a cloud of dust. I appreciate everything the mods do here and feel it's absolutely 100% necessary.

 

[Mitchell]

I have to back Myriads up on this one, and, perhaps if I recount a bit of what happened to me back in the old fucked up insecure room, maybe people will understand what used to go on there, and why we need a secure chat.
I remember the incident like it was yesterday. It was a Sunday afternoon in October, 2002. I had been a member of TMF a bit over a month. I saw a new girl in chat, and she accepted a pc with me after I asked. At first, when we started chatting, I was just into the chat, and forgot to ask her age. Then, somehow, instinctively, or for whatever reason, I asked her:" How old are you?" A "17" flashed up on the screen, and, before I could get out of there, and close the window, having learned she was a minor, and didnt belong there, the following message popped up on my screen,from a screen name called "attention": It said:" You are hereby under survillence with the NJ dept of sex crimes division for soliciation and discussion of sexual activies with minors". It gave some case ID number, and instructed me to call Officer Someone to discuss the case, and face charges of solication with minors. In fact, I was not "soliciting" anyone, I was just chatting. It all looked so official, scary, and real. After the "officer" finally let me go, I happened to run into Myriads, who calmed my fears, and told me that I had been one of many who had been duped by the "cop", and that the "cop" was in fact a troll, who had scared others, and was nothing more than a sick lunatic, who was stalking the chat, to cause trouble. A close friend of mine who is still a TMF member had the same experience, but I will not post his name out of respect for his privacy, our friendship, and our conversation about such. After this, I was thankful when the mods were able to have a secure room.
Bottom line, people, in a sex fetish chatroom such as this, if we didnt have a secure room, and went back to the old type, one would never know who is legit, and who is not. In fact, this type of room could well be a target for legitimate law enforcement looking for minors, or reasons to shut it down. Thus, in an insecure room, if such incidents happened, as happened to me, and my friend, none of us, not me, any other member, or even Myriads, Mimi, or Jeff, would know who was legitimate, and who wasnt. This, coupled with the vile spam that Myriads and Mimi mentioned, is reason why I agree that we need the secure room. In fact, without mentioning his name, to again protect his privacy, I am 99% sure that I recall a friend of mine, who is a mod, mentioning that he, too had an encounter with a "cop" around the same time I did. Due to these reasons, and the spam, I am in full agreement that the secure room is needed.
Hopefully, the chat and forum can stay as it is, because, for however long Iam here, I dont want to have to go back to the old insecure room with the troll problems, and I know that for Myriads, who has to mod and admin this place every day, such would be a nightmare, because, such as what happened to me, and my friend, as well as the troll spam problem, would be a regular occurence, which would just suck. Thus, the secure room is best.

Mitch

 

[Bugman]

A secure room and mod's on the forum are a must.I saw a thread in the personal's forum from someone who claimed to be a 16 year old girl.Whether that was true or not,i reported it,and it was gone in no time.In another case someone started a thread requesting a clip of two young underage boys tickling each other.Again i reported it,and the mod's took care of it right away.They do a great and often thankless job,and should be appluded for it.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

here is another little experience. I don't think this will be a problem meantioning as i don't even remember the names of the people, but if it is feel free to edit, Myriads.

This happened back when the Chat was probably in it's worst state, when the troll was showing up on a daily bases, usually for hours on end. During this time, the troll happened to impersonate a female member. While he was he happened to start chatting with a male member whom the real female was particulerly close with. Apparently she had been going through some marital problems with her husband of late, and when they were chatting, the troll started freeking out as though they had gotten into a fight with her husband and that he was threatening to kill her, that he had just hit her, and then logged off. The other person, thinking that the women he knew was in danger, called her local police station, probably via 911, and police officers were dispatched.

When they got to the appartment they kicked in the door, to find the women playing with her children, which scared the shit out of all parties involved. I'm not sure if the women comes here any more, but i wouldn't be surprised if she didn't. It's things like this that give good reason for a secure chat room.

 

[TheFactor]

I think the TMF needs mods more than most forum sites out there. Calling Mods on the TMF "Unnecessary" is like saying fingers are unnecessary! Seriously, when it comes to fetish sites like this than a Mod is necessary! Think of how many people out there everyday come to this site looking for people who understand them. Think of how vulnerable most of us were when we first came to this site. I personally came from people who laughed at me for enjoying tickling. It was simply beyond their cope of understanding. Also not all people can simply close down a window without feeling something. People laughing, or making fun of you leaves just as big of an impact as someone who is praising you, and understanding where you are coming from. I've been called a freak and weirdo on other forums dedicated to tickling. It's something else when people who share the same fetish make fun of you for enjoying it just as much or even more than they do.

Well that's enough from me, but think about it for a minute. Mods are needed here.

 

[drew70]

They are all good points, Myriads. Whether a forum is moderated or not, Spam Control is a critical necessity on which we can both agree. I thought Bob Hare did a great job at AMT. He controlled the spam without censoring peoples opinions.

As for the chatroom troublemakers, I'm convinced the intensity of their activity was directly proportional to the amount of attention they'd receive from the moderators. All of the bans and threats that were hurled at them? They'd just eat it up and come back for more. If we'd learned to ignore the racist comments and flames, they would simply move on.

As for the woman who came to the chatroom during a moment of vulnerability, needing a friend...well come on. That's like an alcoholic going to a bar to get support and help for her addiction. Not really very smart.

Moreover I think that from an administrative point of view, you're likely to only hear about the bad stuff going on. I can see how it would seem like nothing but problems, but from a user's standpoint, I have to say it really wasn't that bad.

A special pleasure were the trolls that pretended to be children younger then 10 who would either solicite sexual activities or react in shocked horror to that fact that this was an adult room. Once they got a rise out of anyone we'd return to the screen fulls of insults and racial slurs. There was the troll who would log in with two accounts, one a 'child', then the second the 'parent' who discovered their kid here. They would toss about drama, insult the sexuality of all in the room, threaten legal issues, and in general spoil folks eve. Sometimes the 'parent' would be a 'law enforcement' person instead.

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say things were more interesting. You can't buy entertainment of that calibre. It was like a dramatic movie with which you could personally interact. How can that compare with today's chatroom conversations which consist largely of..........."ASL?"..........."Hey, I'd sure love to tickle Jessica Simpson,".....or....."please ask before PC"....etc.

I realize my appreciation for the way it was in the chatroom won't be shared by many. People in general don't want to stand up for themselves. They prefer to have others stand up for them. Until that changes we'll have forums that are very well controlled and policed....though perhaps not as entertaining or fun.

 

[drew70]

This happened back when the Chat was probably in it's worst state, when the troll was showing up on a daily bases, usually for hours on end. During this time, the troll happened to impersonate a female member. While he was he happened to start chatting with a male member whom the real female was particulerly close with. Apparently she had been going through some marital problems with her husband of late, and when they were chatting, the troll started freeking out as though they had gotten into a fight with her husband and that he was threatening to kill her, that he had just hit her, and then logged off. The other person, thinking that the women he knew was in danger, called her local police station, probably via 911, and police officers were dispatched.

When they got to the appartment they kicked in the door, to find the women playing with her children, which scared the shit out of all parties involved. I'm not sure if the women comes here any more, but i wouldn't be surprised if she didn't. It's things like this that give good reason for a secure chat room.

Oh my god, that is freakin hilarious!! Damn, I knew I missed a lot of good stuff like this. Great story Cosmo. I'll bet that guy felt like a complete idiot for calling the police. I know I would.

Then, somehow, instinctively, or for whatever reason, I asked her:" How old are you?" A "17" flashed up on the screen, and, before I could get out of there, and close the window, having learned she was a minor, and didnt belong there, the following message popped up on my screen,from a screen name called "attention": It said:" You are hereby under survillence with the NJ dept of sex crimes division for soliciation and discussion of sexual activies with minors". It gave some case ID number, and instructed me to call Officer Someone to discuss the case, and face charges of solication with minors. In fact, I was not "soliciting" anyone, I was just chatting. It all looked so official, scary, and real. After the "officer" finally let me go, I happened to run into Myriads, who calmed my fears, and told me that I had been one of many who had been duped by the "cop", and that the "cop" was in fact a troll, who had scared others, and was nothing more than a sick lunatic, who was stalking the chat, to cause trouble.

*applause* Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Great story, Mitch! I'd love to hear more! Man, talk about the good old days!

 

[kis123]

Oh my god, that is freakin hilarious!! Damn, I knew I missed a lot of good stuff like this. Great story Cosmo. I'll bet that guy felt like a complete idiot for calling the police. I know I would.

*applause* Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Great story, Mitch! I'd love to hear more! Man, talk about the good old days!

If you think this kind of assinine and sick behavior constitutes entertainment, I'm sure there are plenty of websites with chatrooms that'll provide you with all the Jerry Springer trailer trash "entertainment" you could ever want! Personally, I'm glad someone cares enough about the chatroom to protect it from these jackasses!

I've been a member over three years and have never used the chatroom one day. When Myriads first asked for help, I had no problem giving. Three years ago, I thought I was some sort of freak for having the thoughts and fantasies that I had. Now I know of at least 30000 "freaks" just like me . I never would've found out if TMF didn't exist. So chat room or not, when someone asks for help to keep any part of this site going, I'll be there with bells on!!

 

[TMF Jeff]

Oh my god, that is freakin hilarious!! Damn, I knew I missed a lot of good stuff like this. Great story Cosmo. I'll bet that guy felt like a complete idiot for calling the police. I know I would.

*applause* Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Great story, Mitch! I'd love to hear more! Man, talk about the good old days!

Seriously, Drew, shut the fuck up.

 

[drew70]

Seriously, Drew, shut the fuck up.

Okay, fine. Buh bye.