How Do You Feel About These Private Military Contractors Involved In The Current War?

[JimBoy]

The one that seems to be getting the most attention is Black Water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide

The media, politicians, and active military personal have long criticized the presence of these private security personnel being involved with the War in Iraq. They have been labeled as mercenaries by a few people. They are there to guard civilian contractors (mostly involved in the oil business) and other visiting dignitaries and do other jobs that the real military would not do or haven't been asked to do.

They also do not answer to Congress or fall under the USMJ military codes so they pretty much have free reign.

They gained a bit of a bad rep when it was reported they were gunning down civilians; they were involved with the Baghdad shooting incident to name a few. They also were reported to be involved with illegal arms dealing and the smuggling of weapons over to enemy insurgents.

Do you have any more info on these private security firms? How do you feel about their presence there?

 

[Journia]

I don't like the idea of these contractors anyhow. Black water is not very favorable in my opinion, I mean, havew you seen their spokesman? His hair is done like hitler's!

 

[melanie2]

I don't like the idea of these contractors anyhow. Black water is not very favorable in my opinion, I mean, havew you seen their spokesman? His hair is done like hitler's!

on purpose????

 

[morgandee]

that's ucmj

contractors of any kind are dumb

 

[FeatherDaemon1]

Mercenaries are nothing new. They date back to ages past.

 

[Timewarp]

The is no honor is war. Only survival and death.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

I love how Haliburton, which made billions for Cheney, Rumsfeld. elder Shrub, Rove, and other profiteers, quietly packed up and moved their headquarters to? The Middle East, of all places! Undoubtedly to avoid minor indignities like, oh, United States law coming back to bite `em on the ass. This "war" is a fraud. Bring our troops home!

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

The is no honor is war. Only survival and death.

That doesn't mean we should fear being good and moral when going to war. Yes it might bring extra casualties but dammit, we shouldn't stoop as low as others would.

 

[Timewarp]

That doesn't mean we should fear being good and moral when going to war. Yes it might bring extra casualties but dammit, we shouldn't stoop as low as others would.

It's so easy to say that in the comfort of your home and a pc screen glow. Now imagine yourself in a open environment. Chaos all around you. Explosions from shells, grenades and bombs. Bullets whizzing past you in just sheer inches, fired by men/women who want you to die. Running for cover as you past unfortunate victims: Bodies, limbs, blood and rotting carcesses. And all that stands between you and the slim chance of going home is placing a bullet into another human being or anhilating them in flash of gunpowder and fire or a silent slit of the throat. All occuring almost constantly depending on the situation.

No one goes to war without leaving a couple of scars, limbs or themselfs. War changes you weither you want it to or not.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Sorry but my opinion will not change and will never change even if I have to defend my own country. I won't give up my humanity just to achieve victory, even if it's a cruel and heartless war and my limbs are blown off and guts spilled out!

BTW...I'm not some dumb woman typing from a computer screen and I've seen my fair share of bloodshed. I've fought an actual monster off unlike many veterans! Try defending yourself against a serial rapist with nothing more than your fingernails.

It may be an enlightening experience!

 

[Timewarp]

Now who said you were dumb? This is just the general observation of people who can't see what really happens in a war. That's why all those Nam victims have Post-Tramtic disorder.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

My apologies for getting angry. I didn't mean to get nasty. I just wanted to say no matter how terrible the battle or war we humans we shouldn't sacrifice our humanity to achieve victory. Dying a death protecting others and going good is sad but it's also a death to be proud of.

 

[Cbarton]

I love how Haliburton, which made billions for Cheney, Rumsfeld. elder Shrub, Rove, and other profiteers, quietly packed up and moved their headquarters to? The Middle East, of all places! Undoubtedly to avoid minor indignities like, oh, United States law coming back to bite `em on the ass. This "war" is a fraud. Bring our troops home!

So, Halliburton is bad because Bush used their engineering and organizing skills in Iraq, but they were wonderful when Clinton used them in the Serbia/Croatia conflicts on the Balkan peninsula? No one said anything bad about them when Clinton used them exclusively...hmmmmm

 

[BigNorm]

I don't like the idea of these contractors anyhow. Black water is not very favorable in my opinion, I mean, havew you seen their spokesman? His hair is done like hitler's!

your right, that's a hitler do.


btw, the definition of a mercenary is a soldier who works for money and doesn't belong to any country. Soldier for hire, a.k.a. Soldier of Fortune

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

So, Halliburton is bad because Bush used their engineering and organizing skills in Iraq, but they were wonderful when Clinton used them in the Serbia/Croatia conflicts on the Balkan peninsula? No one said anything bad about them when Clinton used them exclusively...hmmmmm

Well, their mission was different when Clinton ran things.

 

[Cbarton]

Well, their mission was different when Clinton ran things.

Not really, the same exclusive contracts there that they had in Iraq...

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Not really, the same exclusive contracts there that they had in Iraq...

Well, I dunno. I define a "peacekeeping mission" differently than most of your chickenhawk ilk, I'd imagine. :tired:

 

[august spies]

Not really, the same exclusive contracts there that they had in Iraq...

so because the level of corruption regarding evil corporate military whores was at a lesser level under clinton than bush it makes it ok with bush?

 

[Cbarton]

so because the level of corruption regarding evil corporate military whores was at a lesser level under clinton than bush it makes it ok with bush?

No, because I always find it ironic the dichotomy. And please don;t be so foolish to say that Halliburton did it only under Bush and not Clinton. I'm no apologist for Halliburton. I just love the hypocrisy of the Clintonestas...

 

[Cbarton]

Well, I dunno. I define a "peacekeeping mission" differently than most of your chickenhawk ilk, I'd imagine. :tired:

Please...

With all the land minds and other dangers in Serbia and other areas of the Balkans, those peacekeepers have been in danger the entire time they are there.

Chicken hawk? I may not have participated in active service, but I serve the many fine men and woman who have served and defended this fine nation by taking care of their health care needs when they come home! As I have been told by many in active service, I am performing my military service by serving THEM in their time of need. I have helped treat men from WWI, WWII, Korea (where my father served proudly in the 44th Artillery), Vietnam, Persian Gulf, and currently some from Iraq and Afghanistan. I work my butt off every day to take care of these men and women. It's not a job, it's an honor and privilege to serve them in the VA system.

Even though I may disagree with your stances, I have always respected them. But to be brushed off as a "chickenhawk" is an insult I will NOT stand for.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Then sit down. Hell, I don't care. let's just get our men and women home. if you guys need to pretend that your totally botched invasion was anything remotely approaching a lasting success to do it, then fine. Imagine the "surge" achieved that, and let's get them back here.

We don't have a separate section for political/religious debates here, and we could go round and round on this `til Obama is elected (wink), so, in an effort to steer things back to a less argumentative place, free from the sort of diatribes we tend to see on our sister forum, I will refrain from engaging in these pointless back-and-forths with you.

I know you mean well, and I suspect that you are a genuinely decent person, but you just come off on a superiority-kick with this whole "Daytime Knight"-thing and the "Xians are best, everyone else is flawed!"-shtick. One thing I (and anyone who's been on the planet for any length of time) have learned is, when someone announces how splendidly super and good and lovely they are, it's time to keep a close eye out.

 

[Cbarton]

"Raising a Modern Day Knight" is the program I am doing with my son, using the ideals of knighthood in a manner to help him to achieve true Biblical manhood. Current and past generations have failed in that task, for the path to true manhood is diliberate, is just doesn't happen. The book was written by Robert Lewis. The four phrases are the four ideals that define true Biblical manhood.

They are the ideals I try to live by, and still pursue to this day. I put them there as a reminder to me daily, not to "puff myself up." I can't expect my son to follow a path that I don't walk myself. I am the Knight, he is my squire, and on either his 16 or 17th birthday, when we complete the journey, he will be presented to his peers and other men who have been influences in his life as he proclaims what he has learned. At the end, I will present him with a sword (still trying to decide between a Narnian design, Knights Templar, or other styles) and the family crest.

Next time I change my sig, I'll call the proper press conference, submit it to you and the mods for approval, and provide footnotes, OK? :ggrin:

P.S. Besides, the "Bro's before Ho's" gif was already taken....(ROFL)

 

[kilitiinko1]

you just come off on a superiority-kick with this whole "Daytime Knight"-thing and the "Xians are best, everyone else is flawed!"-shtick. One thing I (and anyone who's been on the planet for any length of time) have learned is, when someone announces how splendidly super and good and lovely they are, it's time to keep a close eye out.

You mean like those bumpkins from Arkansas? Er,New York?Er,wherever they need to go next?You know,the Greatest President and the Greatest President Who Never Was,Bill and Hil?

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

You mean like those bumpkins from Arkansas? Er,New York?Er,wherever they need to go next?You know,the Greatest President and the Greatest President Who Never Was,Bill and Hil?

Lordy, how I miss them after the last 7+ years.

 

[TheChameleon]

You know, this argumentative type thread is horribly annoying for us to moderate, but, it sure is fun to see everyone point out how the other person is wrong instead of sticking to the topic.

Here's my personal belief. Please don't argue my points, just my character traits because its easier to point out something wrong with me than my argument.

I hate war, I hate war protesters, and I hate Bush, and I hate Obama, and I hate McCain, and I hate Jesus, and I hate Satan, and anyone else you could point at and ask if I hate them. The reason I'm bringing this about is that no matter what you do, somebody is always going to consider someone else wrong for approving of the messages of any of these people, imaginary or real.

Who cares if Kyhawkeye wants to be a Knight, and believe in Jesus and live like a good christian should. I'm proud that he's able to live in his world where he believes that when he dies, something good will come of it.

At the same time, someone else (I don't know anyone off the top of my head,) who doesn't believe in Jesus and all that jazz and believes when they die that's it, gone, dead, doesn't exist anymore, well lah-di-dah, who cares if they are "wrong" in your eyes, it doesn't mean that they aren't still a person who has the same ability to make a choice in believing in something or not.

Honestly, Personally, I wish I could believe that there was a God and he would take care of me, and all that, but, it doesn't work that way, my brain isn't wired that way. That doesn't make me less of a person, just a different person.

So, I'm asking you nicely, please don't attack someone based on their signatures, personality traits, or anything else... just stick to the issues guys.

Hawk, just so you know, I disagree with everything you say about religion and politics, but that doesn't mean I do not think you are a nice guy and you aren't doing what is best for you and your family. I think you are one hell of a guy, you have morals and standards you hold as more dear to you than I ever could. I admire your beliefs.

And, Rick.

I agree with you slightly on most things. That means, I do not feel educated enough on the subject to believe that Obama is right 100% or that I would actually feel okay backing him as our next leader of our great country.

What I want is a new form of politics. I want the best man or woman elected. I want a complete lack of mudslinging, I want choices. I want more than two parties. I want freedom, and I want a complete voice. I do not want to hear "________ is a bill I want passed." I want to actually know what the whole bill is, because they hide things inside other bills to make it seem worthwhile. (Example: Tax Cut by 5%, ((small increase in 42 different areas to improve city life, totaling to around a 6% increase in Taxes.)))

As far as Private Military Contractors, it doesn't affect me personally. I don't really care, to be honest. I'm completely unaffected by the war, with exception to my costs rising on everything, and the economy exploding, things I couldn't care less about. Its something that will happen anyway, why not make it now?

As far as "that's easy to say from the quiet calm and comforting glow of your computer screen" argument, everyone in the military had that choice. We aren't calling people to war, we are a Career Military. OUR soldiers are practically Mercenaries, but, they are mercenaries for America. They get paid to fight, or to heal, or to console, or to set up computer lines, or repair jets, but, they SIGNED UP to take their position. Nobody forced them. If you sign up for the military, I can't feel bad about people signing up to join a Military. If they were drafted, that might be another story.

Thanks for your time, Its late, and i'm tired. Feel Free to Reply, and no, I won't ban-hammer you for disagreeing with me. In fact, because I've added to this thread, I'll leave all moderation on it up to another admin, unless its something obviously against the rules.