Hi there, I am needing some help for any and all members that think they can help me in some way or form. As I might potentially be loosing my job come Friday. See I sent a co-worker a message through myspace not during work time, but on my own personal time, just telling her I like being tickled. Apparently this made her feel uncomfortable, as she ended up printing out the message and presenting it to HR. They tried to talk to me today about it, but I refused as since it was something that occurred outside of work and not during actual work time than it was none of their business. I reluctantly agreed to talk to my boss about it, but then in the middle of our conversation two people from administration and one from HR come in with notepads looking like they want to talk to me. I then said I can't talk or discuss this than leave, I say to my co-workers that I'm leaving for lunch(since it was time for my scheduled lunch) and that I'd be back in an hour if I still had a job left. Well my boss calls me and says that they are going to suspend me for the next two days than I have to come in on Friday morning for an emergency meeting with all parties involved to discuss what happens. Now I'm going to do this, but part of me is worried that I'm just going to get fired or let go. For the record I've been there four years close to five years, have had no prior incidents with HR or strikes against me. The employee who was offended is new and I don't think been there past her 90 day probation period. So I'm just needing some advice as to what you think I should expect or is there anything I should do to cover myself or make sure that they can't or won't fire me. I appreciate any input I can receive regarding this.
-
The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us. -
>>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
Don't forget to include your username
The TMF is sponsored by:
Might loose job for tickling
- Thread starter doseone
- Start date
SmarterthanU
TMF Master
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2007
- Messages
- 958
- Points
- 0
You made a huge error when you refused to cooperate. If you sent your coworker an unsolicited personal email that made her feel uncomfortable, you should have said "Yes, I did. I'm sorry if I made her uncomfortable. That was not my intension. Please tell her that I apologize. I will not do anything like that again." At that point, they probably would have written you up and let it go at that.
But you didn't do that, so now what? I would say that the odds are you will be fired. If I were you, I'd go to the meeting on Friday and say "I should have said this before..." And then simply and straightforwardly own up to your mistake, apologize for it, etc. Above all, ASSURE THEM THAT YOU WILL NEVER CONTACT THIS WOMAN AGAIN, FOR ANY REASON. Then hope for the best.
Good luck to you!
But you didn't do that, so now what? I would say that the odds are you will be fired. If I were you, I'd go to the meeting on Friday and say "I should have said this before..." And then simply and straightforwardly own up to your mistake, apologize for it, etc. Above all, ASSURE THEM THAT YOU WILL NEVER CONTACT THIS WOMAN AGAIN, FOR ANY REASON. Then hope for the best.
Good luck to you!
Personally... I say, if they fire you- get a lawyer, unless this is a job you weren't planning on keeping or moving up in.
Really... the details you give us about the actual incident are very vague. Not to be nosey, but in order to make any real conclusion about your conduct or whatnot, we'd have to see the statement you made along with what she said before the statement and after, if anything. Was the conversation flirty, sexual, or was your statement out of topic?
I agree, perhaps you should have spoken to your boss when it happened... but I also don't believe things like this should be taken to the work place unless she was seriously afraid for her saftey and therefore felt she couldn't work with you.
I wish you luck... Just stay professional, you'll be ok. ^_^
Really... the details you give us about the actual incident are very vague. Not to be nosey, but in order to make any real conclusion about your conduct or whatnot, we'd have to see the statement you made along with what she said before the statement and after, if anything. Was the conversation flirty, sexual, or was your statement out of topic?
I agree, perhaps you should have spoken to your boss when it happened... but I also don't believe things like this should be taken to the work place unless she was seriously afraid for her saftey and therefore felt she couldn't work with you.
I wish you luck... Just stay professional, you'll be ok. ^_^
padrefan67
TMF Novice
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2001
- Messages
- 58
- Points
- 0
Contact a lawyer or some type of legal aid immediately. Each state will have it's own laws as well as Federal laws that pertain to these issues. You should speak to someone before you go back on Friday. This type of thing, if not handled correctly, can haunt you for a long time - even if with another employer. If you can not speak to a lawyer or legal aid by your meeting time then contact your state agency regarding this matter and speak with them. While that will not be quite as good, they will provide you with information that will pertain to your rights.
Good luck to you.
Good luck to you.
you know what..you should of apologized first and that should of kept the damage to a minimum or even none. this was outside work and all you said was you like being tickled right? so what? you didnt at least act like some pervert or anything. i think you should take action first thing you get back if you are hoping to keep your job just like SmarterthanU well put out above. good luck to ya.
maniactickler
Verified
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 22,996
- Points
- 38
I would make it a life long goal to get even with this bitch. perhaps a huge amount of exlax in her coffee. or key her car. or slash all 4 of her tires. some people are just scum.
Sending her the message is one thing, but I think the biggest problem here is when you told the bosses that it wasnt their business. I'm sorry to say, my friend, that if the woman you contacted told your bosses about it, it then becomes their business. A more wise option would have been to apologize, and tell the bosses that you won't ever contact the woman again. By not doing this, the situation became inflamed.
My suggestion is this: I would sincerely apologize to them, telling them you'll never contact her again, and offer to write her an apology correspondence for them to give to her. This might calm the situation down. If you go in there to them being all "It's none of your business", they could be like "You know what, we don't need this, let's fire him to save face". Nowadays companies take things with sexual innuendos very seriously,
The most important thing here: Go in to tomorrow's meeting concilatory, and apologetic. Sometimes, even if a boss or supervisor is ticked off, they will calm down, and try to work with someone, if they see a concilatory stance.
Good Luck. I hope you can resolve this without losing your job. Please let us know how it turns out.
Mitch
My suggestion is this: I would sincerely apologize to them, telling them you'll never contact her again, and offer to write her an apology correspondence for them to give to her. This might calm the situation down. If you go in there to them being all "It's none of your business", they could be like "You know what, we don't need this, let's fire him to save face". Nowadays companies take things with sexual innuendos very seriously,
The most important thing here: Go in to tomorrow's meeting concilatory, and apologetic. Sometimes, even if a boss or supervisor is ticked off, they will calm down, and try to work with someone, if they see a concilatory stance.
Good Luck. I hope you can resolve this without losing your job. Please let us know how it turns out.
Mitch
It isn't usually considered harassment,
and generally not a pattern, and therefore not fireable,
if something happens once.
Really, because she wasn't able to tell you that she
never wanted to hear you say that again as it made
her uncomfortable, and instead brought it to work, it
has become an issue.
You've received excellent advice above, 1) saying
"Sorry, I didn't know it would make you uncomfortable,
I'm sorry that you feel that way, I'll never bring that
up to you again." will go far
and 2) talking with a lawyer about this (if it looks as
though they would fire or even reprimand you for an
out of work incident) might just forestall a firing or worse.
Lee
and generally not a pattern, and therefore not fireable,
if something happens once.
Really, because she wasn't able to tell you that she
never wanted to hear you say that again as it made
her uncomfortable, and instead brought it to work, it
has become an issue.
You've received excellent advice above, 1) saying
"Sorry, I didn't know it would make you uncomfortable,
I'm sorry that you feel that way, I'll never bring that
up to you again." will go far
and 2) talking with a lawyer about this (if it looks as
though they would fire or even reprimand you for an
out of work incident) might just forestall a firing or worse.
Lee
TklDuo-Ann
2nd Level Black Feather
- Joined
- May 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,393
- Points
- 0
Ditto to all of the real advice. Nix on the retribution stuff. The only thing I would add is to suggest taking a recording device to document the meeting. This way, if they were to fire you, you'd have everything on record.
As has already been stated, a single out of workplace incident is not grounds for dismissal. You'd have a good case for a wrongful dismissal suit if they fired you. Unless the suspension was for the attitude and not simply your refusal to cooperate, that may also be grounds for legal action on your part.
Unless there was more to your note than you let on, just apologize and you should legally be fine.
As has already been stated, a single out of workplace incident is not grounds for dismissal. You'd have a good case for a wrongful dismissal suit if they fired you. Unless the suspension was for the attitude and not simply your refusal to cooperate, that may also be grounds for legal action on your part.
Unless there was more to your note than you let on, just apologize and you should legally be fine.
J.Apolo654
TMF Poster
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 145
- Points
- 0
Yeah, I'm with a lot of the majority on this one,
First, Apologize to the lady you sent that message to, Then to your boss and the people at HR.
Second, Realize that the best way to not get fired is to not fish off the company pier! It is nothing but a major hassle waiting to happen, as you are now finding out the hard way.
Third, Recognize that our little fetish is not popular with the mainstream crowd.
So even something as harmless as a note sent on your own time can be looked upon as something sick and devious from someone outside our group.
Good luck
First, Apologize to the lady you sent that message to, Then to your boss and the people at HR.
Second, Realize that the best way to not get fired is to not fish off the company pier! It is nothing but a major hassle waiting to happen, as you are now finding out the hard way.
Third, Recognize that our little fetish is not popular with the mainstream crowd.
So even something as harmless as a note sent on your own time can be looked upon as something sick and devious from someone outside our group.
Good luck
reflexology414
1st Level Red Feather
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2001
- Messages
- 1,070
- Points
- 0
...
Do you have a union representative or attorney to accompany you? This isn't a meeting you should take on by yourself.
Do you have a union representative or attorney to accompany you? This isn't a meeting you should take on by yourself.
giggle-maker
2nd Level Orange Feather
- Joined
- May 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,365
- Points
- 0
This is the no-brainer that I was thinking of when I first read your post. Then it hit me. You seem like an intelegent person who doesn't seem like the type who would just blurt out
"Hi, nice to meet you, my name is _____ and I like to be tickled!"
Which brings me to my next question: How much communication did you two share BEFORE you brought up tickling?
areenactor
2nd Level Blue Feather
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2001
- Messages
- 5,356
- Points
- 48
bring a lawyer!
go in for the meeting. be polite! be professional! bring a lawyer! you shut up, let your lawyer do the talking. you have already stated that this was not on company time, and were not using company computer, etc. she must have wanted outside contact, cause she told you she had a myspace page. what followed is not illegal, nor a matter for the company you work for. you did it off the clock, and there for none of their buisness.
is they do fire you, anytime in the next 6 month, have your lawyer file suit the same day!
let us know what happens.
steve
go in for the meeting. be polite! be professional! bring a lawyer! you shut up, let your lawyer do the talking. you have already stated that this was not on company time, and were not using company computer, etc. she must have wanted outside contact, cause she told you she had a myspace page. what followed is not illegal, nor a matter for the company you work for. you did it off the clock, and there for none of their buisness.
is they do fire you, anytime in the next 6 month, have your lawyer file suit the same day!
let us know what happens.
steve
ShadowTklr
3rd Level Orange Feather
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 2,619
- Points
- 36
Having been an HR director before, I can tell you that activities outside the scope of your employment do not typically fall under the auspices of HR disciplinary action. Exemptions to this rule would be illegal activities. A company usually has the legal right to terminate your employment if you were arrested for illegal activity outside of work.
Most HR handbooks these days have clauses under the heading of "Conduct" which include behavior outside of work. These behaviors relate mostly to drug and alcohol abuse, violent crimes, and most anything which rises to the level of criminal offenses.
If your communication to this girl was done on your own private computer, outside of the physical property owned or leased by the company, and did not route through any company owned servers or company owned networks, then I don't see that just cause exists to terminate you.
If you work in an "Employment At Will" state, then the company can terminate you for any reason, just or otherwise, however, the minute they attach "cause" as a reason for termination, then that cause must adhere to the policies of that company and/or the employment laws of your state.
Previous posters have suggested consulting an attorney and recording the meeting. I think those are both very good ideas.
Best of luck to you.
Most HR handbooks these days have clauses under the heading of "Conduct" which include behavior outside of work. These behaviors relate mostly to drug and alcohol abuse, violent crimes, and most anything which rises to the level of criminal offenses.
If your communication to this girl was done on your own private computer, outside of the physical property owned or leased by the company, and did not route through any company owned servers or company owned networks, then I don't see that just cause exists to terminate you.
If you work in an "Employment At Will" state, then the company can terminate you for any reason, just or otherwise, however, the minute they attach "cause" as a reason for termination, then that cause must adhere to the policies of that company and/or the employment laws of your state.
Previous posters have suggested consulting an attorney and recording the meeting. I think those are both very good ideas.
Best of luck to you.
Why ask us?
Does anyone see the irony in his asking a Tickling Fetish forum for advice in this matter? Way to get an unbiased opinion, no? Anyways.....
In a case like this, most employers are more concerned with covering their butts in case the complainant calls Gloria Allred or something. They have to prove they took some kind of action, and the two-day suspension will probably be sufficient. It depends a lot on the company, and the kind of workplace environment he's in.
1. By his own admission, this girl was a brand new employee (less than 90 days), and he didn't indicate that they had any contact outside of work, or that she had given him her MySpace address (easy enough to find, with a name).
2. When they tried to talk to him about it, he ran out of a meeting (granted, he was understandably embarrassed and scared), and that probably didn't look too good.
3. It is a company matter, by the way. Most larger companies have policies about sexual harassment that extend beyond the workplace. While a company can't govern everything you do away from work, they can dictate how that you treat another employee in or out of the workplace. Again, much depends on this company's policies, and whether they can prove he was aware of them.
Does he deserve to be fired? No, of course not, and he most likely won't be, unless this is a pattern of behavior that he's not admitting. Has he sent similar messages to any other female co-worker? That's probably what they're checking on now.
I think most of the genuine advice here (all the juvenile and anti-social "fuk dat be a badass like me and get back at da bitch" posts notwithstanding) has been good. Be apologetic, and if you think you've been wronged, call an attorney; although, the consultation will be amusing.
Does anyone see the irony in his asking a Tickling Fetish forum for advice in this matter? Way to get an unbiased opinion, no? Anyways.....
In a case like this, most employers are more concerned with covering their butts in case the complainant calls Gloria Allred or something. They have to prove they took some kind of action, and the two-day suspension will probably be sufficient. It depends a lot on the company, and the kind of workplace environment he's in.
1. By his own admission, this girl was a brand new employee (less than 90 days), and he didn't indicate that they had any contact outside of work, or that she had given him her MySpace address (easy enough to find, with a name).
2. When they tried to talk to him about it, he ran out of a meeting (granted, he was understandably embarrassed and scared), and that probably didn't look too good.
3. It is a company matter, by the way. Most larger companies have policies about sexual harassment that extend beyond the workplace. While a company can't govern everything you do away from work, they can dictate how that you treat another employee in or out of the workplace. Again, much depends on this company's policies, and whether they can prove he was aware of them.
Does he deserve to be fired? No, of course not, and he most likely won't be, unless this is a pattern of behavior that he's not admitting. Has he sent similar messages to any other female co-worker? That's probably what they're checking on now.
I think most of the genuine advice here (all the juvenile and anti-social "fuk dat be a badass like me and get back at da bitch" posts notwithstanding) has been good. Be apologetic, and if you think you've been wronged, call an attorney; although, the consultation will be amusing.
ShadowTklr
3rd Level Orange Feather
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 2,619
- Points
- 36
This is only true in cases of domestic violence, stalking, or any other crime which occurs outside of the workplace. A company cannot dictate how you interact socially with another employee outside of the workplace as a condition of employment in matters that do not relate to work.
Depends...
Just an example of one state.
STATE OF MINNESOTA IN COURT OF APPEALS
C7-03-404 (2003)
Minnesota law defines employment misconduct as
(1) any intentional conduct, on the job or off the job, that disregards the standards of behavior that an employer has the right to expect of the employee or disregards the employee's duties and obligations to the employer; or
(2) negligent or indifferent conduct, on the job or off the job, that demonstrates a substantial lack of concern for the employment.
I'm sure any company's lawyers could find reasons to make it work, if they tried hard enough. Of course, as you pointed out, if he's in an "employment at will" state, they have little to fear.
As I said, it has a lot to do with a company's own policies, and what he may or may not have signed when he was hired on.
Just an example of one state.
STATE OF MINNESOTA IN COURT OF APPEALS
C7-03-404 (2003)
Minnesota law defines employment misconduct as
(1) any intentional conduct, on the job or off the job, that disregards the standards of behavior that an employer has the right to expect of the employee or disregards the employee's duties and obligations to the employer; or
(2) negligent or indifferent conduct, on the job or off the job, that demonstrates a substantial lack of concern for the employment.
I'm sure any company's lawyers could find reasons to make it work, if they tried hard enough. Of course, as you pointed out, if he's in an "employment at will" state, they have little to fear.
As I said, it has a lot to do with a company's own policies, and what he may or may not have signed when he was hired on.
Iwon'tgrowup
TMF Master
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2005
- Messages
- 643
- Points
- 0
Another good example of why to stay safely in the closet.
tickleboynyc
TMF Master
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2003
- Messages
- 926
- Points
- 18
well, first of all, sorry this happened to you.
second of all, texting this girl about how you like to be tickled was kind of dumb. i'm sorry but it was. you should have gotten to know her a LOT better before doing something like that.
you obviously don't deserve to be fired, but you very well may be. it's pretty much up to them. if you live in an employment at will state, you're probably hanging on by a thread. if you don't you may be able to survive this.
but DON'T be arrogant about this, if your job matters at all to you. apologize. swear it'll never happen again. i'm sorry to say you crossed a line. also, look at it this way.the employer DOESN'T WANT TO GET SUED by your coworker. so he's covering his butt too.
it sucks, but that's how it is. in general you have to be REALLY careful with anything at all involving coworkers.
second of all, texting this girl about how you like to be tickled was kind of dumb. i'm sorry but it was. you should have gotten to know her a LOT better before doing something like that.
you obviously don't deserve to be fired, but you very well may be. it's pretty much up to them. if you live in an employment at will state, you're probably hanging on by a thread. if you don't you may be able to survive this.
but DON'T be arrogant about this, if your job matters at all to you. apologize. swear it'll never happen again. i'm sorry to say you crossed a line. also, look at it this way.the employer DOESN'T WANT TO GET SUED by your coworker. so he's covering his butt too.
it sucks, but that's how it is. in general you have to be REALLY careful with anything at all involving coworkers.
This seems like a pretty easy one...
First, myspace is a wide open public forum...Second, the message was not sent on work time...
I would not speak to anyone in Administration or HR without some sort of representation present. Seeing as the message was sent to a myspace account away from the work place, I agree that it is in fact none of your employers business.
Lawyer up kid...
First, myspace is a wide open public forum...Second, the message was not sent on work time...
I would not speak to anyone in Administration or HR without some sort of representation present. Seeing as the message was sent to a myspace account away from the work place, I agree that it is in fact none of your employers business.
Lawyer up kid...
