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Non Consensual? "White Knighting"

tickling=feet said:
Im sorry. I hadnt logged back in until now. I didnt think the post would be discussed past that day so i didnt check. But anyway i talked to the host of the party and he told me he had heard that the guy did a similar thing to another girl so it wasnt his first time
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Personally, I don't think that guy should be invited to any more play parties.
 
We don't know specifics, but: With all the talk about how the woman in this situation consented to the man's actions, please remember that consent can be withdrawn at any time for any reason.
 
Of course, but communicating a safe word would a been a good idea. We all say/hear no, please, stop, don't and a lot of times it's part of the scene.
 
chicago said:
Of course, but communicating a safe word would a been a good idea. We all say/hear no, please, stop, don't and a lot of times it's part of the scene.
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I'm afraid you don't get the whole point of what was going on there. It's not about the girl who hadn't prepared a safe word. It's about the one who for some reason don't have will to use it and say no to the guy.

Of course you'll say we don't know it for sure and there's a lot we don't know. So that also means you don't know for sure as well and can't say you know better what should or shouldn't be done with it.
If you think you don't know what's happening then yes, that's probably better for you not to touch it. And apparently not to call a natural urge of people to help a "knee jerk". It's sad if you live in the world where, as you think, those who are ready to help you would do it only because of a knee jerk and inventing a romance novel in desire of your sexy attractive body with a nice feather tattoo.

The OP did everything right because he listened to his heart, not a knee or some other part. That's it. I'm really sorry for those who don't have it.
 
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tickletherapist said:
I'm afraid you don't get the whole point of what was going on there. It's not about the girl who hadn't prepared a safe word. It's about the one who for some reason don't have will to use it and say no to the guy.

Of course you'll say we don't know it for sure and there's a lot we don't know. So that also means you don't know for sure as well and can't say you know better what should or shouldn't be done with it.
If you think you don't know what's happening then yes, that's probably better for you not to touch it. And apparently not to call a natural urge of people to help a "knee jerk". It's sad if you live in the world where, as you think, those who are ready to help you would do it only because of a knee jerk and inventing a romance novel in desire of you sexy attractive body with a nice feather tattoo.

The OP did everything right because he listened to his heart, not a knee or some other part. That's it. I'm really sorry for those who don't have it.
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A knee jerk reaction is, by definition, a natural reaction. It's actually pretty generous to call it a knee jerk, rather than a reaction based on sexual dynamics, and the desire to ingratiate themselves to someone based on their gender. Kind of like trying to complement someone's body while scolding them.
 
tickletherapist said:
I'm afraid you don't get the whole point of what was going on there. It's not about the girl who hadn't prepared a safe word. It's about the one who for some reason don't have will to use it and say no to the guy.

Of course you'll say we don't know it for sure and there's a lot we don't know. So that also means you don't know for sure as well and can't say you know better what should or shouldn't be done with it.
If you think you don't know what's happening then yes, that's probably better for you not to touch it. And apparently not to call a natural urge of people to help a "knee jerk". It's sad if you live in the world where, as you think, those who are ready to help you would do it only because of a knee jerk and inventing a romance novel in desire of you sexy attractive body with a nice feather tattoo.

The OP did everything right because he listened to his heart, not a knee or some other part. That's it. I'm really sorry for those who don't have it.
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I don't know why you keep making personal comments. Earlier about my future kids and now about my body. It's really weird. Other than that, you're just repeating yourself so maybe we should agree to disagree.
 
Take my apologies. I really meant no offence. It wasn't an intention to scold as Wolf thinks. It's about making you feel and understand what, as you said, you don't know for sure in this case.
A knee jerk is a knee jerk, and heart is heart. Though some might not see the difference. Words mean what they mean.
The complement was sincere though.

As bringing your own points to logic means to you that I'm repeating myself, then let's agree to disagree, no need for tickle fights. (although some tickle therapy session by one of our tickle therapists wouldn't do you harm I suppose :))
This case is just too personal for me not to fight for the truth, so please understand this. Peace.
 
tickletherapist said:
Take my apologies. I really meant no offence. It wasn't an intention to scold as Wolf thinks. It's about making you feel and understand what, as you said, you don't know for sure in this case.
A knee jerk is a knee jerk, and heart is heart. Though some might not see the difference. Words mean what they mean.
The complement was sincere though.

As bringing your own points to logic means to you that I'm repeating myself, then let's agree to disagree, no need for tickle fights. (although some tickle therapy session by one of our tickle therapists wouldn't do you harm I suppose :))
This case is just too personal for me not to fight for the truth, so please understand this. Peace.
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What truth are you fighting for?
 
tickletherapist said:
That one knows by heart and the other might never understand.
We just do what we think is right. And shouldn't blame each other, but live in peace. That's ok.
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Doesn't peace include not interfering with others if you're not sure of the situation?
Just because you feel good about what you call a truth, doesn't mean it's the truth, or that it apples to other people.
 
Wolf said:
Doesn't peace include not interfering with others if you're not sure of the situation?
Just because you feel good about what you call a truth, doesn't mean it's the truth, or that it apples to other people.
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It's not me who is not sure of the situation. It's you apparently who isn't. Or Chicago who repeated herself several times here saying she doesn't know all the facts and can't judge what that "pretty" guy did (using the word "we" instead of "I"). Believe me I'm sure what it was.
That's why I'm speaking for myself only, as everyone should do listening to their own heart.
I admire your tolerance and would defend to the death your right to have your own opinion and express it, like Voltaire said. But I stand my ground. I hope it doesn't feel like we are not in peace.
 
tickletherapist said:
It's not me who is not sure of the situation. It's you apparently who isn't. Or Chicago who repeated herself several times here saying she doesn't know all the facts and can't judge what that "pretty" guy did (using the word "we" instead of "I"). Believe me I'm sure what it was.
That's why I'm speaking for myself only, as everyone should do listening to their own heart.
I admire your tolerance and would defend to the death your right to have your own opinion and express it, like Voltaire said. But I stand my ground. I hope it doesn't feel like we are not in peace.
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How can you be sure of what the situation was...were you there? Were you involved? You really don't know.
 
tickletherapist said:
Take my apologies. I really meant no offence. It wasn't an intention to scold as Wolf thinks. It's about making you feel and understand what, as you said, you don't know for sure in this case.
A knee jerk is a knee jerk, and heart is heart. Though some might not see the difference. Words mean what they mean.
The complement was sincere though.

As bringing your own points to logic means to you that I'm repeating myself, then let's agree to disagree, no need for tickle fights. (although some tickle therapy session by one of our tickle therapists wouldn't do you harm I suppose :))
This case is just too personal for me not to fight for the truth, so please understand this. Peace.
Click to expand...

I'd appreciate if we left my appearance, my body, my future kids, and your want to give me tickle therapy out of this conversation and any others unless part of the topic. I'm sure you can understand how a compliment given in a strange setting can be off putting.

tickletherapist said:
It's not me who is not sure of the situation. It's you apparently who isn't. Or Chicago who repeated herself several times here saying she doesn't know all the facts and can't judge what that "pretty" guy did (using the word "we" instead of "I"). Believe me I'm sure what it was.
That's why I'm speaking for myself only, as everyone should do listening to their own heart.
I admire your tolerance and would defend to the death your right to have your own opinion and express it, like Voltaire said. But I stand my ground. I hope it doesn't feel like we are not in peace.
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I said the OP did the right thing as he had to think quickly in a situation he thought might be potentially dangerous.

What I disagreed with, was the comments that came after insinuating things about the couples relationship which we don't know anything about. To make those assumptions based on no real knowledge is jumping to conclusions in my opinion.
 
chicago said:
I'd appreciate if we left my appearance, my body, my future kids, and your want to give me tickle therapy out of this conversation and any others unless part of the topic. I'm sure you can understand how a compliment given in a strange setting can be off putting.
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I said it won't do you harm, not that I want to give you tickle therapy. No need to distort what I'm saying.

I'm sorry for what made you feel offended and won't let emotions overwhelm common sense and courtesy.
 
tickletherapist said:
I'm afraid you don't get the whole point of what was going on there. It's not about the girl who hadn't prepared a safe word. It's about the one who for some reason don't have will to use it and say no to the guy.

Of course you'll say we don't know it for sure and there's a lot we don't know. So that also means you don't know for sure as well and can't say you know better what should or shouldn't be done with it.
If you think you don't know what's happening then yes, that's probably better for you not to touch it. And apparently not to call a natural urge of people to help a "knee jerk". It's sad if you live in the world where, as you think, those who are ready to help you would do it only because of a knee jerk and inventing a romance novel in desire of your sexy attractive body with a nice feather tattoo.

The OP did everything right because he listened to his heart, not a knee or some other part. That's it. I'm really sorry for those who don't have it.
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Out of curiosity, are the ladies (lees) in your videos (which are great, don't get me wrong) afforded a safeword?

I seem to recall a video of one of your models talking about her "therapy" after the fact, and how she would like to do "something painful, obviously" to the male tickler (you?) from her session.
 
This is a interesting debate and raises many points, my own take is that the guy did the right thing by turfing them out.But there is always a 50/50 chance of getting things wrong. Under UK law (if i'am right) there is a guilt by association situation, so after being left in charge, had the woman suffered actual harm he would have been considered to have aided the ler.In the past i have restrained guys only to find the woman would then turn on me, and sometimes the women do the "drama queen" routine and things seem worse than they are.This situation could have had a BDSM element where the guys was sadistic and the woman enjoyed some degree of discomfort or even pain, not to mention the dom/sub master mistress slave situation, so you see you can't win.Any decent Ler with a duty of care towards the Lee would make sure that injury could be eliminated where possible, and a safe word used.Serious tickling always involves some form of restraint somewhere and therfore there is a bondage element, and this needs a fair bit of skill to avoid injury.What catergory this couple came under is unclear, but i'am behind the guy and think he done right making them leave. Wither there was a "white night" with a hidden agenda is doubtful i think he was just a decent guy trying to do right, maybe he should have asked the woman if she was ok rather than assuming she was not.
 
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tickletherapist said:
I said it won't do you harm, not that I want to give you tickle therapy. No need to distort what I'm saying.

I'm sorry for what made you feel offended and won't let emotions overwhelm common sense and courtesy.
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Whatever the comment was, I don't see why it was necessary to bring up here. Why would you mention it if you DIDNT want to see it?

On topic now. Overall, I think there's a lot of fault on the host. He should have come up with some ground rules for his party to at least avoid any liability, let alone injury or assault. One of those rules should have been "use a safe word" and another could have been "when asking to play, you need to have enthusiastic consent" or whatever.
 
Teal said:
No, you definitely did the right thing. The whole idea of "white knighting" is absurd anyway - put it this way: if you're overly cautious the worst thing that happens is you interrupt someone's play session for 30 seconds, but if you turn a blind eye you could be letting someone get assaulted.
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Whoever called it "White Kniting" has no idea what that term means. It means to side with the woman regardless of all other cercumstance (ie woman attack man he defends himself & white knights attack him anyway) You did the right thing.
 
magic fingers said:
IMHO you absolutely did the right thing. The fact is, despite the popularity of the TMF, most women(men too, for that matter) dislike or outright hate being tickled. So they would REALLY hate being tickled while restrained. Don't beat yourself up man. A lot of people would've just looked the other way while this poor girl was being tortured, but you helped out this lady and that's to be admired. If anyone crossed the line, it was that douchebag who was tickling his GF when she obviously wasn't enjoying it.
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What a load of bull.
 
SlaverTickler said:
Whoever called it "White Kniting" has no idea what that term means. It means to side with the woman regardless of all other cercumstance (ie woman attack man he defends himself & white knights attack him anyway) You did the right thing.
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More precisely, it's a term used by anti-feminists to describe the situation when a man agrees with a woman online, implying that he's only doing it to curry favor with the woman, and get something in return.
Because they can't imagine why a man would side with a woman if there weren't a trade-off involved.
 
Wolf said:
More precisely, it's a term used by anti-feminists to describe the situation when a man agrees with a woman online, implying that he's only doing it to curry favor with the woman, and get something in return.
Because they can't imagine why a man would side with a woman if there weren't a trade-off involved.
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I disagree with this to some degree. White Knights tend to believe that women are incapable of arguing their opinion or standing up for themselves, and that they need a male presence to help protect them. Now I do believe that misogynist anti-feminists believe that any male that agrees with a female is a white knight because in their world view a male could never agree with a female unless he wanted sexual favors from her. But that is to say that White Knighting does not exist.

As to this situation, I am not sure. This group event was not organized very well. There should have been set rules, so there would be no ambiguity. Therefore, I think the OP probably did the right thing.
 
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