Tickle enthusiasts and the Spectrum

[EmbraceSerenity]

I’ve been a teacher for many years, and for the last five years been responsible and teaching children all on the ASD spectrum as well as many with ADHD, ODD and social emotional difficulties. Whilst there are probably those that are on the spectrum, and have the fetish it is a wild generalisation to make. Im sure she didnt mean much from it but spreading that sort of view is quite disheartening to see. There are so many different mental health disorders, lots that cross over and unfortunately people assume anything is a disorder, when people are shy, anxious or in any way awkward. I have heard others say “i am autistic, i can’t deal with this” when talking about change or transition but we have to remember it can be very insulting to those that do have it.

 

[duderino84]

. There are a lot of people out there who simply don't consider the feelings of others when they act. It bothers me to no end to see people who have not been diagnosed and who are not medical professionals repeatedly try to use any sort of non-neurotypicality as an excuse for bad behavior. It does not do any favors for the Autism community to have people bring it up any random time somebody simply cannot behave themselves.

It is one thing to bring up in conversation that a lot of people who enjoy the stimulus of being tickled have, in your experience, been on the spectrum. It is another entirely to extrapolate from that that -this- is the explanation for everything ranging from poor social skills to outright bad judgment in a fetish community. You may find one, both, or even none of these to be questionable, but they are, in fact, two entirely different things, and saying one does not imply the other. Anything else I could say has already been better put by Turtleboy.

I have to imagine some guy getting himself sweaty post- orgasm and so mentally exhausted he tells her "I haven't had anything like that, I have ___________________". But really, making a statement like "oh yes, all sorts of guys tell me they're on the spectrum" almost lends someone to ask "well..... who?" And I bet she'd give names! Like really, you got someone to pay. Is the money on the spectrum? No? Then the fuck does it have to do with your service?!

I just wonder under what circumstances would they disclose it. But like you said, even if they do trust her enough to tell her this, how can she justify spreading it like that?

Lol I can only imagine the post- blown minds of guys telling her. But I find it in incredibly bad taste to specifically describe customers in any other way than would make them come across like anything but a regular guy who happens to like whatever they like. I'm a guy and I'm expected to like tits. Guess what, they rank after my other fetishes. It doesn't make me "special", it just means I'm not pre-occupied with tits! I get that just based on what's between my legs there's every generalization under the sun being thrown my way but if I were paying I'd want to feel like a regular guy who simply had his mind blown.

 

[duderino84]

This. I've worked in this field for close to 20 years (still do a little bit outside of producing vids) and have seen many people fail to get a diagnosis despite having quite noticeable social skills issues. Labelling people (or oneself) as an 'Aspy' or a 'Sperg' if they display even the slightest degree of social awkwardness or unusual behaviour, has become an internet trend lately as cultural awareness of autism has grown. Likewise the tendency for movies and TV shows to pump out 'autistic' protagonists with super-human levels of intelligence and an incredibly rude or socially odd persona (e.g. Hannibal, Sherlock etc) is a really irritating trend that I would like to see die soon. It's misleading and distorts public perception of what it actually means to be on the spectrum.

The bottom line is that many people display social awkwardness, shyness, avoidance of real life social situations and/or difficulty getting along with others. Many people also have very limited, specific interests without ever meeting the criteria for a diagnosis of autism. That's because they are essentially human traits that we all possess to some degree, and some more than others (men more than women on the whole). A diagnosis on the other hand, is about the combination of factors, the extent to which they are seen together, and the stage in the person's development where they first appeared. I have known and worked with many very intelligent, articulate, talkative, confident, friendly and interesting people with autism over the years. I've also know many socially inept, shy and/or downright strange people who wouldn't ever get a diagnosis.

It doesn't help that self-diagnosing various conditions has become a thing now too.

Ya, that "good doctor" show bothers me as well. Mostly because of how arbitrarily the main character is able to diagnose someone in utter agony based off a glance at a patient, yet can't understand how people's feelings don't measure up.

Some people just fucking deal. I wish people could stop associating discrepancy with disorder. Unless it specifically inhibits someone from living out all essential (eating/ sleeping/ shitting) functions of their lives, someone's diagnosis should mean nothing.

 

[S1]

I hadn't cried since I was a child but I've sobbed uncontrollably several times since my now four year old was diagnosed. He is in behavioral therapy 30 hours a week, with speech and occupational therapy twice a week.

I worry all the time about what my boy will be able to do when he's an adult. Will he be able to communicate, find a career he enjoys, fall in love, and maybe start a family (if that is what he wants)?

This is so much work for a young child to take on. I just want him to have a typical, care free, childhood but this treatment is what will give him the best long term chance at functioning in this world as a (real diagnosed) autistic person.

So when I hear, or hear of, people throwing the term "autistic" around to describe "being unusual" or something similar, it makes me angry. Like, really? Does that person go through half of what my boy does? Did they ever stim so much at two years old that people couldn't stay to be around them? Do they struggle to communicate even their most basic needs? Did they miss out on so much of their childhood because they spent all their time in therapy? Anything even close? Well, if not, then they can fuck off.

 

[siamese dream]

I hadn't cried since I was a child but I've sobbed uncontrollably several times since my now four year old was diagnosed. He is in behavioral therapy 30 hours a week, with speech and occupational therapy twice a week.

I worry all the time about what my boy will be able to do when he's an adult. Will he be able to communicate, find a career he enjoys, fall in love, and maybe start a family (if that is what he wants)?

This is so much work for a young child to take on. I just want him to have a typical, care free, childhood but this treatment is what will give him the best long term chance at functioning in this world as a (real diagnosed) autistic person.

So when I hear, or hear of, people throwing the term "autistic" around to describe "being unusual" or something similar, it makes me angry. Like, really? Does that person go through half of what my boy does? Did they ever stim so much at two years old that people couldn't stay to be around them? Do they struggle to communicate even their most basic needs? Did they miss out on so much of their childhood because they spent all their time in therapy? Anything even close? Well, if not, then they can fuck off.

I do feel your pain, really do ... When my youngest was first diagnosed at 2.5 yrs, after being referred by our early Head Start home visitor, it was devastating to us both and caused a huge rift between my ex husband and I, who was not an ex yet then. He refused to believe anything was wrong. He also seemed to be resentful of me for following Head Start and later therapists' advice. It was like he felt that I was taking "their side" instead of agreeing with him that she did not have autism. Many other problems led to the end of our marriage, but that was a definite turning point, where he seemed to stop loving me and grew cold and hateful.

Still, keep in mind ASD has a huge spectrum of behavioral and communication differences, and levels of severity of impact to the individuals functioning. While I know you are in pain over the concerns you face with your son, just because a person does not have as severe of communication difficulty does not mean they aren't also ASD.

 

[MrPeanut]

I don't really get what this Domme did wrong? It's not as if she's disclosing the identities of the people who disclosed their 'being-on-the-spectrum'-ness to her. Take a chill pill.

 

[Lisatheticklee]

I don't really get what this Domme did wrong? It's not as if she's disclosing the identities of the people who disclosed their 'being-on-the-spectrum'-ness to her. Take a chill pill.

It's more of how she's made a sweeping generalization of the community based on a personal assumption.

 

[siamese dream]

It's more of how she's made a sweeping generalization of the community based on a personal assumption.

But she really did not seem to be. The thread poster more or less made it sound that way and it sounds kinda like exaggerated whatever it was she said about the kink and ASD tickle clients, idk it sounds like it was kind of a one-on-one conversation in which she noted something to him about how a lot of her clients seem to identify themselves as on the spectrum and enjoy being tickled, like "hmm wonder if this is a thing or just coincidence or sign of the vast increase in both awareness and diagnosis of ASD, individual guy having unknown relationship to me that I just made an off hand remark to privately between us", not "hey entire tmf do you think this is a thing?? I'm saying it is, to all y'all!" Lol that was him posting this thread and opening this can o worms about whatever they had talked about together that I'm sure she was thinking was just casual conversation between 2 friends or whatever, not hey I invite you to make this casual conversation between us into a huge controversial issue for hundreds of ppl to judge me and you and the conversation they were not part of"

 

[TMF Jeff]

I tend to agree - I think Xion wanted to snark about the community and threw Zoe right under the bus.

But she really did not seem to be. The thread poster more or less made it sound that way and it sounds kinda like exaggerated whatever it was she said about the kink and ASD tickle clients, idk it sounds like it was kind of a one-on-one conversation in which she noted something to him about how a lot of her clients seem to identify themselves as on the spectrum and enjoy being tickled, like "hmm wonder if this is a thing or just coincidence or sign of the vast increase in both awareness and diagnosis of ASD, individual guy having unknown relationship to me that I just made an off hand remark to privately between us", not "hey entire tmf do you think this is a thing?? I'm saying it is, to all y'all!" Lol that was him posting this thread and opening this can o worms about whatever they had talked about together that I'm sure she was thinking was just casual conversation between 2 friends or whatever, not hey I invite you to make this casual conversation between us into a huge controversial issue for hundreds of ppl to judge me and you and the conversation they were not part of"

 

[chicago]

I mean, he hasn't returned to this thread since he started the shit-stirring. His post history is pretty self-explanatory. I thought her response sounded more honest and even was apologetic despite not really needing to.

To suggest that because her clientele has certain commonalities means that that reflects something about tickle fans is a pretty big leap. I mean, if one has really great social skills, would you be paying for that type of interaction? Would you spend that much time online? Not that there's a problem with that and that should not be implied here anyway.

I have also met hundreds of folk between here, fetlife, and gatherings. The OP implies a serious misinterpretation.

 

[siamese dream]

Yeah definitely agree w Jeff that it very much sounded like she got offered up as the real culprit behind whatever shitstorm this guy was trying and sorta succeeded in bringing on, also seemed like maybe she wasn't even aware of the thread til Jeff had to tell her ppl are freaking out over what this guy said that you told him and she had to try to defend herself and do damage control for no reason over a thread she didn't post and things she may never have said or that were wildly distorted or taken out of context etc and agree with Chicago that she was the one sounding concerned here over sensitivity to those with ASD and did also seem apologetic probably because this guy sure wasn't here trying to defend her or apologize and the anger it has already stirred up definitely seems like something that someone responsible should try to explain and apologize for... But the person responsible, who made it sound like she was responsible, isn't gonna do shit so she's actually sorta taking on responsibility for everyone's feelings over what he said simply bc she made the mistake of talking to this creep, I saw her as kinda getting blindsided by this guy who is the actual one making offensive suggestions about the tickle community and ASD individuals.

 

[turtleboy]

Xion just reported Mistress Zoe's observations. It did seem like a classic case of someone playing therapist, but to be fair he didn't actually give any real detail and so it's just the conclusion that everyone (myself included) jumped to. It's pretty clear from Jeff's conversation with her that she wasn't actually passing judgement on anyone herself, or giving out confidential information about individuals - she was just noting a trend in what her clients were telling her.

The rest of it is just a case of everyone rushing to assume the worst of someone (again, I'm guilty as anyone else here) but it's not actually what was said when you go back and read the original post. Xionking only mentioned her comments it in his post and he didn't suggest or imply anything negative either way. I think the fact that we tend to assume negative intentions all around, probably says more about our own expectations.

 

[siamese dream]

Xion just reported Mistress Zoe's observations. It did seem like a classic case of someone playing therapist, but to be fair he didn't actually give any real detail and so it's just the conclusion that everyone (myself included) jumped to. It's pretty clear from Jeff's conversation with her that she wasn't actually passing judgement on anyone herself, or giving out confidential information about individuals - she was just noting a trend in what her clients were telling her.

The rest of it is just a case of everyone rushing to assume the worst of someone (again, I'm guilty as anyone else here) but it's not actually what was said when you go back and read the original post. Xionking only mentioned her comments it in his post and he didn't suggest or imply anything negative either way. I think the fact that we tend to assume negative intentions all around, probably says more about our own expectations.

Idk. Because saying that she said "90%" of her clients, and "all appear to be on the Spectrum".... Firstly did he "report her observations", we don't know because he may have told us word for word what she said or he may have pulled that 90% number out his butt, she may have said they identified themselves as on the spectrum, or "appeared to be on the spectrum". The first is what Zoe actually told Jeff, the 2nd is what he "reported" her saying. Funny enough, the first also implies that her clients have sometimes self-identified as having ASD and in fact she goes out of her way to say that she would never assume a diagnosis of ASD just from her observations but that she has been told by some directly that they are ASD diagnosed. Funny enough, HIS wording implies exactly what she was defending herself against. . "They all Appear to be on the spectrum", I.e. "broad generalization that has everyone riled with no valid evidence to back it up". Hmm.


It's subtle but doesn't seem very innocent to me when he surely sees Zoe getting speculated over and receiving the anger over his claims and he does not come back to voice any defense of her while Jeff is telling us directly it seemed like she got thrown under the bus and making sure she has a chance to defend herself over what he "reported" that she said here.

 

[turtleboy]

Idk. Because saying that she said "90%" of her clients, and "all appear to be on the Spectrum".... Firstly did he "report her observations", we don't know because he may have told us word for word what she said or he may have pulled that 90% number out his butt, she may have said they identified themselves as on the spectrum, or "appeared to be on the spectrum". The first is what Zoe actually told Jeff, the 2nd is what he "reported" her saying. Funny enough, the first also implies that her clients have sometimes self-identified as having ASD and in fact she goes out of her way to say that she would never assume a diagnosis of ASD just from her observations but that she has been told by some directly that they are ASD diagnosed. Funny enough, HIS wording implies exactly what she was defending herself against. . "They all Appear to be on the spectrum", I.e. "broad generalization that has everyone riled with no valid evidence to back it up". Hmm.


It's subtle but doesn't seem very innocent to me when he surely sees Zoe getting speculated over and receiving the anger over his claims and he does not come back to voice any defense of her while Jeff is telling us directly it seemed like she got thrown under the bus and making sure she has a chance to defend herself over what he "reported" that she said here.

He actually said (that she said) 90% of her clients were male, which I can believe is true. He also reported that 'all appeared to be on the spectrum' and it could be the case that either she did say something along those lines, or he remembered it wrong/blew it out of proportion in his wording. Either way, they're pretty general comments that probably shouldn't have been taken too literally. Maybe he did want to stir up some shit or maybe she lied to Jeff and said exactly what Xion reported. There's nothing to say that either is true though and people's reporting of conversations is hardly ever accurate. I'm guilty of jumping to the wrong conclusion here too, but it seems like everyone wanted to throw Mistress Zoe under the bus initially and when that was refuted, it must have been Xionking causing trouble. Maybe we just got it wrong.

 

[siamese dream]

He actually said (that she said) 90% of her clients were male, which I can believe is true. He also reported that 'all appeared to be on the spectrum' and it could be the case that either she did say something along those lines, or he remembered it wrong/blew it out of proportion in his wording. Either way, they're pretty general comments that probably shouldn't have been taken too literally. Maybe he did want to stir up some shit or maybe she lied to Jeff and said exactly what Xion reported. There's nothing to say that either is true though and people's reporting of conversations is hardly ever accurate. I'm guilty of jumping to the wrong conclusion here too, but it seems like everyone wanted to throw Mistress Zoe under the bus initially and when that was refuted, it must have been Xionking causing trouble. Maybe we just got it wrong.

I do see your points here, I read the initial post as 90% are male + everything else said that followed, not 90% of her clients are male, also most enjoy being lee etc. I can also see for sure that most of the clients of any professional Mistress who offers tickling sessions would very likely be male. Most enjoying being lees? Well, that could be interpreted as "Lee guys are more x way than ler guys!!", Or, "Many of the tickling communities' professional models and dominatrixes who offer paid sessions ONLY offer sessions as the ler, or ones who do offer lee sessions may charge higher prices for a lee session (understandably because it will inherently involve more physical risk, stress and potential physical discomfort for the professional than a session as the ler would)... Or even "Most clients are lees simply by virtue of the title "Mistress Zoe". If we think of lee/ler in terms of dominance and submission and the wider BDSM scene, the lee is the sub, ler is the dom. In terms of the wider BDSM scene, a "Mistress" implies a dominant woman, therefore men looking to book sessions as Lee would likely be quicker to go to someone who titles themselves as a Mistress or a Dominatrix, since the title itself implies she is in the dominant role, even if in reality she offers sub/lee/or switch sessions.

I guess I feel annoyed that everyone wants to protect the tickle community from negative generalizations, up until professional models, producers, Mistresses, Dominatrixes etc etc. want to have private lives or personal conversations with others in the community or even be allowed to vent or just chat in general to other individuals about their job or clients on occasion (obviously without giving personally identifying info) without everyone freaking the fuck out on them of how dare they sometimes say in a private conversations hey sometimes/a lot of times this job can be (whaaaaat) and these guys that are my clients can seem (noooo!), yet every single word they say to any individual within the tickling community, because they appear in videos or offer paid sessions, can be in a thread in a heartbeat like "hey everyone Mistress X said this!!!" and everyone goes "Nooo how could she ever say that! She's bad for the community! She doesn't respect her clients! I wonder how often she badmouths the guys who pay her!! I wouldn't go to her!! What's she got to complain over if they pay her!!". Yeah guys I'm sure all of you who get paid for any sort of job which you do never ever say anything that could be perceived as negative or unfair at all about your job or boss or clients or co-workers or the work you get paid for ever to anyone else in any conversation, right? Lol. To me the first thing that someone got wrong was opening up this thread at all, and then if we get past that, not beginning it with "I was recently chatting with a Mistress I chat with and she said stuff that may be totally harmless or crazy offensive, have fun getting mad at how crazy offensive it was or trying to explain how totally harmless it was to the people who are mad and offended in replies guys!" ...and instead posted "I was recently chatting with *Specific Mistress* and yeah she said ..." Ok maybe his finding it interesting was harmless, maybe whatever she said was harmless, maybe no one posted personally identifying info about anyone else without their consent except ohhhhh.. lol

 

[Barney Stubble]

I find the over-reaction to the opening post astounding. Uh oh. Somebody has...(gasp)...an OPINION! We must rally against that opinion to collectively browbeat anybody who agrees with it! Props to the few who refused to be intimidated.