Tickling and Christianity

[jpmtickle]

Hi, everyone. My first thread...hope this isn't ground that's been discussed to death already but this issue has been on my mind lately.

To the forum members who are believers--I've been struggling lately with the intensity of this (tickling) passion and where this fits in our beliefs.

Thanks for any insights anyone is willing to share. Religion may be a hazardous topic for this forum but I've noticed most posts seem to be focused on fundamentalists and their assumed labeling of this community as horrible. So, I'm just trying to see where those of us who deal with this work through it.

Thanks to all,
JP
🙂

 

[46and2]

As long as your in control...

Your not breaking the rule of putting something before God. We don't choose to have this fetish, so why would God want us to repress it (especially when it would be psycologically unhealthy). I still struggle with what your saying every now and again, but I look at it this way: God has someone for me who is at least going to understand and accept this crazy kink of mine if they are not going to share it. So I keep the faith and I don't worry about it. I just refuse to let it dominate my life, it comes second to whatever path the Lord has laid out for me. I hope this gives you some insight.
Peace
-Phil

 

[TicklingDuo]

I can understand where you're coming from, JP. I struggled with this myself. But, here is the understanding that I came to...

When the Lord created us, He gave us the ability to respond in a favorable way to a tickling touch. I believe that there would be no problem in His mind with us enjoying it on a fun level. In fact, I believe that He created our ability to do so as a way to show a platonic affection towards one another.

Tickling can be but doesn't HAVE to be sexual. When I play with others, it is a fun level of play only and doesn't cross over into sexual play. So, it does no harm there. As for play with my husband...we're married and can pretty much do as we like. There is no conflict there either.

Ann

 

[TickledToDeath]

Provided there is no "INTENT" to injur or sexual violation....

...If it feels good, do it!
If it feels great, do it more!

Tickling has no religion.
Passion for tickling is not partial or impartial to any beliefs.
Tickling is not bias or racial!

If only everyone can be like tickling!😉


TTD

 

[Ayla ny]

I have had a really, really horrible day and a few glasses of wine... so if I don’t make sense, bare with me.

I have always had an unshakable belief in God. religion, on the other hand, has shaken me on more than one occasion.

I have stayed out of other ‘religious’ threads because they all went very deep (you may want to do a search. good reading.) but wanted to respond to this one because of the personal feeling I got from it.

...we are all imperfect. regardless of whether or not we are doing exactly as we should... we a are loved and accepted (and should do the same!) just as we are. I can’t believe in anything less.

 

[Stitch62679]

Hi! Thanks for this post, this is a good one! We all like to have our soap boxes here, lol, actually I'm not so much of a fundamentalist, but I loooove rocking the boat 😉
I'm a Christian, and love tickling. For the most part, I dont see the two really having problems. Break it down to the basics: Love everyone, do good, don't forget about God. To me, so long as I'm not maliciously trying to harm someone by tickling them, I'm good 🙂
Within this community, we all like tickling, well...love tickling...so tickling between people who enjoy it brings more joy. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[iticklegirlsft]

For me it's a struggle

I'm always praying that tickling does not overshadow the rest of my life because for me it's an alluring form of sexual foreplay, i.e., I can't get together with the guys and get into a tickle fight with one of them.

My wife also enjoys tickling, when we're together it's also sexual. So I couldn't play around with other women poking them in the sides or spider tickling their feet playfully like some could.


Therefore, for me, I have to really watch it, I have to control it or it will control me.

I agree with all of you, and there is a verse that says that "as a man thinketh so is he". As long as it's innocent to us we know how to deal with it in that context. Unfortunately for me, I've got it quite a bit worse than most of you, so I for those who may be like me, as long as it's within the context of our marriages there is no problem. I don't believe it is something to be shared with just anyone.

 

[ericr]

I think of being ticklish as a gift from God. As long as tickling does not break any of the rules of Christianity, it does not conflict with our religion. It can even be a way of expressing Christian love as when a parent lovingly tickles his/her child, a spouse lovingly tickles his/her mate, etc. If it is involved with behavior breaking Christian rules such as being involved with adultery or the like, it does conflict with our religion.

 

[Amnesiac]

Why should august spies have all the fun?

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of God's opinions...a favorite past-time of religious people everywhere. Mostly, according to the literature, pleasure isn't one of God's favorite things because it tends to distract people from spending every waking thought contemplating how wonderful he is (modesty and humility don't seem to be any virtues of his).

If anything, pleasure seems to be a double-edged sword God uses as a means of purity control. If you take the perspective that God created humanity, then he created our psychological response to pleasure and positive reinforcement. In this case, he seems to relish in it's power to tempt people away from prostration and into self-interest or fulfillment so he can test people's worthiness for Divine reward in the afterlife. For a guy with infallible precognitive powers, he doesn't seem to know a lot about what people will do without testing them.

Or, he also seems to treat pleasure as a reward for services rendered, primarily loyalty, devotion, faith and servitude. For that, humans are granted permission to enjoy sexual delights with ONE person for the rest of their lives (complete with a full array of things NOT allowed, no matter how delightful they may be), but that depends on what denomination you are as well. Either way, even this reward isn't entirely pure...there's the liscence application, the approval review and ceremony and then the 10-33% spirtual tax on sex that God basically takes for himself (just read any of those sex books that go on at length about the intimacy between partners is "a spiritual analogy of God's sacrament of love...", etc.)

So basically, pleasure isn't really a nice thing for the Divine unless it has God's logo or seal of approval on it. Leave it to him to take the aspects of pleasure, which gives us mental nourishment...and turning it into a form of torture as well (what a guy!), by withholding it, even at the risk of driving humans insane with deprivation.

Tickling fits in because it is a form of pleasure. Pleasure is always a bad thing for God when you factor in that even SIMPLE pleasures can lead to the BIG BAD ONES (hey, if tactile stimulation were alright, then why would he object to masturbation? Is masturbation a HUGELY spiritual experience? Compared to other things, probably not, but that doesn't seem to stand in his way). So I think tickling would probably fall under that category.

Now, as 46and2 will probably tell you (bless the little guy, I love 'im! *MWAH!*), virtually everything I've said falls under the cateogry of human misinterpretation...the type of literature and propaganda that corrupt human institutions have placed on the divine word. Which is probably very true, but by now, you've reached the end of this post and have probably felt intense, inner reactions about what I've said and have already formed repsonses and rebuttals. ONLY TO BE DENIED SATISFACTION by this last paragraph! Which was my intention...now you have an idea of what religious aspects about Christianity you really believe in...the vague declarations of God...or the dogmatic shit that humans have built. So have fun with the ensuing mental chaos you will experience.

On a final note, I don't believe in God, and I loathe the very idea of him, including the people who believe in him (except 46and2...he's cool). But I can honestly say that if he DOES exist, I still wouldn't have any respect for him. Even if a lot of the current Christian perspectives are false human propaganda, there's something sinister about a creature who invents a universe for his own self-gratification at the expense of those who inhabit it.

 

[del]

Tickling - The lust of the flesh

I understand how you feel as a Christian. Be strong in your faith and pray to Jesus to give you the strength to resist the lust of the flesh.

A true Christian only tickles within marriage. Men are weak that is why you see so many more men trying to get tickles while the women more successfully resist temptation to expose their flesh to the lusty touch of the men.

Don't confuse the the playful tickle between children at play with the hidden sexual lust of tickling between adults.

The Holy Spirit speaks to your conscience and no amount of talk from anyone else should silence that voice.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi - Someone e-mailed me and told me about your post. I don't usually read these threads. However - to answer your question!

First and foremost - I am a Christian!! I accept Christ as my savior and the forgiver of my sins!! I also love tickling!!! as anyone who knows me well will tell you

And for those of your offended by tthe statement - don't read the rest of this post - because that's the way life is whether or not you believe it.

Now re: the tickling aspect of it. I feel strongly that God gave me the body I have. Yeah - it's sensitive - he made it that way.

Tickling does NOT have to be sexual. Don't get me wrong - it can be. But it does not have to be!! It has been sexual on occasions. However, there are far more times that it is NOT sexual.

You can enjoy being tickled without the sexual experience. Let's put it this way. I like chocolate ice cream. Lots of people like chocolate ice cream. We eat it - it does not have to be sexual.

Now - picture (visualize if you please) chocolate ice cream with a lover and a nice quiet romantic spot and the palm trees blowing and it's wonderful chocolate truffle ice cream with abananas. It can lead to a sexual experience. Is chocolate bad - no - it's the connotations with it.

Is tickling bad - nto at all. Is sex and tickling bad - depends on the person you're with. I have been tickled by people in a very non-sexual manner and we have had a good time. On the other hand - ...

I hope that helps!! If not - feel free to e-mail me directly. This is a pet peeve of mine - so many people don't believe Christianity and tickling can go together!!

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Based On My Beliefs

JP, I noticed that you never mentioned which religion you belong to, so I'm going to answer based of a Christian viewpoint. (AKA Fundamentalist viewpoint LOL)

The fact of the matter is, even if I wasn't born with my love of tickling, it did start up pretty soon afterwards. And it's all God's fault! 😛 Just kidding (sort of)

No, all joking aside, what I mean is, He knows me, He made me, and when He formed me, He already knew what my strengths would be. He knew my weaknesses, my likes, and my dislikes. (Doesn't mean I am perfect and that there isn't room for improvement! God knows I have things I need to work on!) But I feel like my love for tickling came as part of the package that He created when He created me.

I know for some Tickle Lovers tickling is very sexual (maybe only sexual). Remember that only YOU know how to define how "deep" or involved your love for tickling goes. No one can factually say that because you love tickling that you are in it for purely sexual reasons and that ticking can’t possibly be separated between fun and something erotic. It really can for those of us who have that ability. Also, no one can factually state that we are all perverts (although a lot of us are 😛 joke), or that there is only one true way to love tickling and the rest of us are in denial… la dee da…. !

God looks at the heart! Only YOU and God can determine how deep your relationship with Christ is supposed to be. YOU know what He is trying to tell you. It’s up to YOU to listen. You know where He wants to lead you. It’s up to YOU to follow.

Everyone is different, and if someone believes that it is wrong to "love/enjoy" tickling and be a good Christian, then it's ok. It's all about THEIR relationship with God and what they feel He is calling them to do.

On the flip side, if you feel that it is ok, and that it is not hindering your spiritual relationship, that is equally ok. (Provided you are following what the Word says on the matter.) I can't dive into someone's heart and mind and define or interpret what tickling does to him/her, or how it affects the Christian walk.

If, like me, you see your love for tickling as His imprint on your personality, something special that makes you who you are, then maybe you understand why I see nothing wrong with loving it. Looking back on my childhood, my family is filled to the brim with ticklephiles. My family is also filled to the brim with preachers and missionaries (etc.). LOL But tickling was so innocent and natural for me growing up, that I didn't see anything sexual or wrong with it for the longest time! (I still don't think it is wrong, yet I am smart enough to know that most everyone in the world will perceive it as something driven purely by something sexual. I don't like that perception, but what can I do about it?)

Good thing about having a PERSONAL SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP is that you need to ask God how far to go. He will always let you know. The Holy Spirit has a way of letting you know when something is "wrong" for you. But it is up to YOU to listen. And it is equally up to you to make sure that every decision you think is from God follows His word, not what you just want to hear.

My rules are: (That I admittedly don’t always follow like I should 🙁 )

1) Never let anything come before Him!
(It's all about priorities, and I don’t need to say more.)

2) Keep it simple and fun!

I know that tickling can be very sexual. You know exactly how the Bible defines the “laws” of sexuality outside of marriage. I don't have to spell it out to you. But I agree with what Ann said. I seem to be one of the people who can tickle and be tickled in most situations and it’s just a lot of fun. For some, tickling is only only ONLY sexual, but not for me.

Just use your discretion. If you feel yourself starting to get carried away (and you know what I mean), there is nothing wrong with taking a quick break and refocusing.

3) But when the time comes... WOOHOO!

Yes I do believe sex should wait until marriage for numerous reasons, including my faith. And if tickling equates to pure sex for you (as a Christian), I’m sure you can easily figure out where you should stand, if you are honest with yourself.

I know one day I will meet (and marry) someone who loves me unconditionally and wants to spend his life with me forever (or until forever begins 😛). And when I finally do meet that person, I will share with him every part of me. There is so much for me to look forward to and so many things that I will finally be able to share. That's the cool thing about it. I can be as kinky as I want to be with him 😛 and I can't get in "trouble" heeheeheehee.

But I hope that this sheds some light for some Christian who is struggling. Sometimes He tells us the answer and oftentimes it isn't want we want to hear. We keep trying to ask hoping He will say something else (like we do to our parents 😛). And maybe that is why we are struggling with it. (maybe)

I can't express this enough; only YOU have to live with you. And YOU have to answer for everything you have done. When you add everything up, it comes down to what really matters in life.

I love tickling; no doubt about it! But it isn't the be all and end all of my life. It comes after my religion, my family, my job, my friends (even my other 5 hobbies: basketball, singing, drama, creative writing, and photography). And ticking should not be the only thing that defines who you are as a person.

When my life is over and I have to look back and account for what I have done, my love for tickling (believe me) will be the last thing on my mind.

That all. 😀 And that's based on how I interpret what I believe in.

Love
Sunrise


By the way, sometimes I do struggle with things, even with the tickling issue, but I do know what He wants me to do. I just have to be woman enough to listen and do it. I’m bullheaded… not perfect at all.

 

[46and2]

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist LOL!

Amnesiac ol' buddy how goes it? I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to rap with you in the chat room, but I was having an awesome conversation with a very cool lady, and I was dead to the world by the time we were done talking.

"I suppose it depends on your interpretation of God's opinions...a favorite past-time of religious people everywhere. Mostly, according to the literature, pleasure isn't one of God's favorite things because it tends to distract people from spending every waking thought contemplating how wonderful he is (modesty and humility don't seem to be any virtues of his)."

Not true now, if that were the case wouldn't he be materializing right now and typing a response to your post J/K. But seriousley if modesty wasn't one of his traits, why would he allow his son whom represents him to be publicly beaten, nailed to a cross executed in the worst most humiliatingv fasion a Jew could of been executed in at the time, and not interfere?

"If anything, pleasure seems to be a double-edged sword God uses as a means of purity control. If you take the perspective that God created humanity, then he created our psychological response to pleasure and positive reinforcement. In this case, he seems to relish in it's power to tempt people away from prostration and into self-interest or fulfillment so he can test people's worthiness for Divine reward in the afterlife. For a guy with infallible precognitive powers, he doesn't seem to know a lot about what people will do without testing them."

What pleasures is it that God wants us to avoid? The ones that harm ourselves, we reap our own rewards in this life for partaking in them.
What do you think aids, gonorrhea, and unprepared pregnancy does to people whom have sex outside marriage, or at least not faithfully with one partner? Stds and teen pregnancy were alive then, and they are certainley alive today, have we got the problem beat? Do you think we ever will before humanity destroys itself (you may or may not agree with that statement, but when I look at the world thats the inevidable conclusion I come to)? You think he derives pleasure from it then why would he warn us about it? As far as testing us goes, overcoming trials makes us stronger as human beings, no? Makes us love ourselves more and builds our confidence. The only thing I've known to bring a human being true happiness (besides love) is achievment that brings self-worth (hey I'm just going by just about every person I've known whether they want to admit that to themselves or not). Perhaps just the thing we need to handle upcoming tasks in our life that would benefit us as much as it may or may not benefit God, or perhaps save our sorry asses and those of others around us (I mean in this life).

"Or, he also seems to treat pleasure as a reward for services rendered, primarily loyalty, devotion, faith and servitude. For that, humans are granted permission to enjoy sexual delights with ONE person for the rest of their lives (complete with a full array of things NOT allowed, no matter how delightful they may be), but that depends on what denomination you are as well. Either way, even this reward isn't entirely pure...there's the liscence application, the approval review and ceremony and then the 10-33% spirtual tax on sex that God basically takes for himself (just read any of those sex books that go on at length about the intimacy between partners is "a spiritual analogy of God's sacrament of love...", etc.)"

Oh we are granted so much more then the act of sex could possibly fullfill. If you've ever been in love you know exactly what I mean. As far as I know biblically speaking a married couple can do whatever it is they want with one another in the bedroom as long as they aren't causing emotional, physical, or psycological damage to one another (some masochists love it, but I don't recall a scripture that forbids that kind of play either). Can spirituality and sex go hand and hand, I don't see why not. Wouldn't it make the act of sex so much more fun if it was on a spiritual and physical level at the same time?

"So basically, pleasure isn't really a nice thing for the Divine unless it has God's logo or seal of approval on it. Leave it to him to take the aspects of pleasure, which gives us mental nourishment...and turning it into a form of torture as well (what a guy!), by withholding it, even at the risk of driving humans insane with deprivation.
Tickling fits in because it is a form of pleasure. Pleasure is always a bad thing for God when you factor in that even SIMPLE pleasures can lead to the BIG BAD ONES (hey, if tactile stimulation were alright, then why would he object to masturbation? Is masturbation a HUGELY spiritual experience? Compared to other things, probably not, but that doesn't seem to stand in his way). So I think tickling would probably fall under that category."

Where does it say masturbation is illegal in a well translated bible?
Also what pleasures exactly are we tormented by not having? We our allowed pleasure that doesn't harm ourselves or other people....period. Where does it say tickling is immoral? It is if someone really is in agony and doesn't want to be(you know those ticklers that don't respect human boundaries?). What pleasures are forbidden in the bible that will drive you insane without having them? I'm not interested in what organizations have to say about it, what does the written word of God have to say?

"Now, as 46and2 will probably tell you (bless the little guy, I love 'im! *MWAH!*), virtually everything I've said falls under the cateogry of human misinterpretation...the type of literature and propaganda that corrupt human institutions have placed on the divine word. Which is probably very true, but by now, you've reached the end of this post and have probably felt intense, inner reactions about what I've said and have already formed repsonses and rebuttals. ONLY TO BE DENIED SATISFACTION by this last paragraph! Which was my intention...now you have an idea of what religious aspects about Christianity you really believe in...the vague declarations of God...or the dogmatic shit that humans have built. So have fun with the ensuing mental chaos you will experience."

Stop it chief, your making me blush lol! If a christian were to form rebuttals out of simple self satisfaction and actually be bothered by you denieing it to them, then they would need a serious examination of their faith, as well as an attitude adjustment. I thank you for providing that for those who need it. As a christian you shouldn't be afraid to question and understand what god has to say, he has an interesting way of providing defense.

"On a final note, I don't believe in God, and I loathe the very idea of him, including the people who believe in him (except 46and2...he's cool). But I can honestly say that if he DOES exist, I still wouldn't have any respect for him. Even if a lot of the current Christian perspectives are false human propaganda, there's something sinister about a creature who invents a universe for his own self-gratification at the expense of those who inhabit it."

How is our creation at our expense? I won't go into depth with the Christian Universalist concept of the afterlife because I don't want to sound like a broken record(if anyones interested to know what I'm talking about go here: www.tentmaker.org and find one of the many articles concerning heaven and hell, you might be suprised by what you find out). But I'll just say that I believe Jesus is the savoir of all mankind, if correction is given in the afterlife it is temporary. So in the scheme of things if were all destined for the kingdom of God eventually then how are we losing? If you loathe God because he does something for self-gratification, you might as well hate yourself and the entire human race along with him, because each one of us does the same thing at least once a day.
Peace
-Phil

 

[del]

Resist the devil

"Resist the devil and he will flee from you"
"Give not into temptation"

Touch not the exposed ticklish flesh of the unrighteous woman for thou shalt be tempted.
Let her body be kept covered and look not.

As a Christian man, if tickling causes you to think of sex do it not.

Wait for marriage where your lust can be fullfilled in righteousness and the devil has no place.

If your church knew that you were tickling what would they say?
If your church knew that you were exposing your flesh to be tickled what would they say?

Be honest with yourself.
On judgement day you cannot go before God and say:
"I was led into sin by a woman on a tickling forum who said it was OK"

Ask the minister of God in your church and let us know what he/she says.

 

[46and2]

Re: Resist the devil

Ask the minister of God in your church and let us know what he/she says.

Not a bad idea if churches were infallible, but try this one as well: Read and understand the word of God, There are versions with literal translations of both Greek and Hebrew available at your local book store, so thankfully you don't need to learn the entiretey of both languages. Understand what God (not what a man) expects from you. You'll be glad you did!
-Peace
Phil

 

[tickled_a_lot]

I am not a Christian, but I think the bottom line that most would agree with is that as long as what you are doing doesn't violate anyone else, then you are fine.

You also have to be sure that you are comfortable with whatever you are doing. If it is making you uncomfortable than its wrong for you.

In the end, I don't see how your love for tickling and your faith would have to oppose each other.

 

[Amnesiac]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (part 1)

I LOVE a good thread like this! Already I can sense the disturbance in the Christian forces! HEE HEE!

But anyway, my purpose here is the rebuttal to a few points made by my good sparring partner 46and2.

Ahem.

1. But seriousley if modesty wasn't one of [God's] traits, why would he allow his son whom represents him to be publicly beaten, nailed to a cross executed in the worst most humiliatingv fasion a Jew could of been executed in at the time, and not interfere?

Martyring is an excellent way to gain more followers. If God had intervened, then the people would have figured out that they could get a rise out of him with the right pressure..then he'd have to answer all sorts of questions and...well, you get the idea. But seriously speaking, God has always been an armchair commandant, and probably because his sense of self-righteousness keeps him from sorting out his messes because it would render him, through action, to be culpable. I also like the people who say Jesus was God in human form...however, if that was true, God didn't do it without a handicap...he didn't live as a human entirely: he still kep some of his power and divine knowledge. And as for God enduring human suffering to relate to us? His time served seemed quite simple considering that he wasn't abused, molested or abandoned and didn't grow up with a child and no job while juggling debt and a heroin addiction. He even dies when he was about thirty-soe years old...he didn't grow weak and feeble, suffering from osteoperosis, cataracts, arthritis, senilism and all those other wonderful developments that come with the slow decay of time. All things considered, the only real suffering Jesus did was his crucifixion, as opposed to an entire lifetime of it. He also didn't seem to be interested in too many things sexual.

2. What pleasures is it that God wants us to avoid? The ones that harm ourselves, we reap our own rewards in this life for partaking in them. What do you think aids, gonorrhea, and unprepared pregnancy does to people whom have sex outside marriage, or at least not faithfully with one partner? Stds and teen pregnancy were alive then, and they are certainley alive today, have we got the problem beat?

I've been waiting for this one. The old "sex + sin = punishment (disease)" argument. Alright. Do you remember the polio epidemic of the 30's? What about the bouts of smallpox that ravaged the world? Every time we have a major epidemic, we work through the night to find a prevention. We found it. Twice.

Polio.
VACCINE!

Smallpox.
VACCINE!

Herpes.
....Ummmm.....

Herpes, HPV and other STDs have contaminated 48 million people nationwide already. I'd say that qualifies as an epidemic. It's a simple, non-lethal virus...if we can clone a damned sheep, you would think we'd reverse-engineer a fucking retro-virus like HIV, especially if it was lethal. People like to say that since sex is the major transmitter of diseases, than sex is to blame. Sex doesn't kill us...its the VIRUS/BACTERIA that does; the DISEASE is our enemy. Render us immune to it, and we don't have (as much of) a problem.

As far as unwanted pregnancy goes, there are safe surgical procedures and chemicals to take care of that. Control over our reproductive systems can easily eliminate that.

You think he derives pleasure from it then why would he warn us about it? As far as testing us goes, overcoming trials makes us stronger as human beings, no? Makes us love ourselves more and builds our confidence.
The only thing I've known to bring a human being true happiness (besides love) is achievment that brings self-worth (hey I'm just going by just about every person I've known whether they want to admit that to themselves or not)

Overcoming trials makes us stronger, but it leaves scars. A lot of times, they leave deep ones, and some of them can even cripple a person. Not only that, but experience changes a person...may SEEM like a good idea, but change can happen for the good AND the bad, and considering the way the human brain works and interprets injury and pain, a good person can be turned bad by it. But, according to that last call, God doesn't care if that happens; he basically says "Hey, I told you.." and "If he can't see it, if he wants to let it get him down, tough cookies." What a sanctimonious asshole!

Achievement DOES bring self-worth, but if its been a fixed game, you didn't really do it. For example, maybe it was you (or somebody) who said "God has made a person for me and who can relate to me...etc." Well, if you find that person, how much of an acheivement is that? If God made the person for you to find then he rigged the game. Sure, it worked in your favor, but you didn't do it on your own. Considering God asks people to go through a LOT of HORRIBLE shit alone with confidence as their guide, that's a pretty shitty way to run a railroad.

 

[Amnesiac]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (part 2)

Break's over.

3. Oh we are granted so much more then the act of sex could possibly fullfill. If you've ever been in love you know exactly what I mean. As far as I know biblically speaking a married couple can do whatever it is they want with one another in the bedroom...Can spirituality and sex go hand and hand, I don't see why not. Wouldn't it make the act of sex so much more fun if it was on a spiritual and physical level at the same time?

Sure, I guess (you bahstard romantics!)...IF you need that kind of fulfillment. The truth is (and what virtually EVERY religion refuses to admit) is that not all people are the same. Some are fragile and NEED a relationship like that. Others (not as many) can just enjoy sex as a recreational activity, and be just as happy; OR they can have a life partner for emotional support and lots of playmates to have fun with (ask the swingers). But NOOOOO, that would be having your cake and eating it too...and the only one allowed to do that is the big glowy bearded guy in the sky. Why? Because he SAYS so (big rationale).

As far as the spiritual sex goes? That's EXACTLY what I meant when I said "spritual tax" on sex. The people who do that aren't even having it all for themselves! There's a spiritual connection going on, and God always has a take of that, since he's the one overseeing the merits of the relationship. So sure, you could enjoy yourself, but only if God agrees to foot the bill, and only if he gets a share of the profit. Besides, have you ever READ those books and the way they describe the best way to HAVE romantic, spritually fulfilling sex? It reads like the instructions for a seance, not an orgasm.

4. What pleasures are forbidden in the bible that will drive you insane without having them? I'm not interested in what organizations have to say about it, what does the written word of God have to say?

Well, on this one you got me cornered. What I meant by being driven insane, I mean to say that without some kind of release, without some kind of pleasure, the mind goes insane with deprivation. And according to him, he can will us to deny it, like the old "if you know what's good for you-" expression that threatens something worse if you don't do what he says. Granted, we've already spoken about God's word vs. Man's interpretation, which is where you've got me beat.

5. How is our creation at our expense?...if were all destined for the kingdom of God eventually then how are we losing?

This is like being rewarded for denying your own self and expecting to like it because it should make you happy. How do we even know what Heaven is like? Think about it, think of all the stuff we can do on Earth for fun that would break the divine rules without hurting anyone: let's say that people give it all up...what then? Then so many things that CAN be done are NOT done and it all goes to waste. All the possibilities the world provides are never used, which means it was useless to make them exist in the first place. God seems so set on purity control, but he sure as fuck likes to contaminate creation, which makes it harder to get people in. If a pedophile avoids children to behave himself so he can get to Heaven, does that mean he gets his own "harem" when he gets there? (sounds ridiculous, but that's just an example). Chances are no because in Heaven, every type of pleasure on Earth wouldn't even compare....Well, where's the fun in THAT?! What kind of fucking place IS Heaven?!! And if Heaven is such a better place than Earth...what the fuck are we doing here?!

I don't like this idea because it means I'd have to be something somebody else wants me to be instead of myself. If my own self places people as more important than God, meaningless pleasure over Divine enlightenment, ambiguous individuality over certain conformity, than so be it...but I don't like the idea of being penalized for being myself, especially if I don't hurt anybody over it.

5. If you loathe God because he does something for self-gratification, you might as well hate yourself and the entire human race along with him, because each one of us does the same thing at least once a day

Very true. I'm guilty of it. But I'm held accountable if it fucks up. God isn't. God isn't called to answer for anything because it was either somebody elses fault or his plan from the beginning. Either way, God doesn't face 25-life in prison for anything he does. That and the fact that anything I do out of self-gratification usually doesn't involve someone else's entire life.

 

[46and2]

Re: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (part 1)

"I LOVE a good thread like this! Already I can sense the disturbance in the Christian forces! HEE HEE!"
(breathes heavilly and in a deep voice says "Impressive!")



"Martyring is an excellent way to gain more followers. If God had intervened, then the people would have figured out that they could get a rise out of him with the right pressure..then he'd have to answer all sorts of questions and...well, you get the idea."

I doubt it seriousley, if I were a father and my son were being tortured and killed and I had divine powers on top of it, they wouldn't have much time to figure out anything before I disenegrated their asses or worse, and nobody would want to get a rise out of me after that. Seriousley if you had the forces of nature at your command, would you even need to appear to anyone in order to intervene with primitive Romans? Answering questions isn't something he considers beneath him. He had no problem answering Job's and he doesn't have a problem answering mine, when I apply myself.

"But seriously speaking, God has always been an armchair commandant, and probably because his sense of self-righteousness keeps him from sorting out his messes because it would render him, through action, to be culpable."

Culpable of what? What has he done that is bad? What tragedy has he caused that we didn't bring upon ourselves? If your going to use the unfortunate causes of diseases as a defense, keep in mind that we are finding new causes for cancer all the time (Lysol being a recent example), and eventually we always find a cause for every disease. Of course this would bring the question of why do they exist in the first place? Well (this is just a theory mind you) you ever stop and think that the earth might have a defense mechanism against threats to it's preservation, we certainley do, as do most animals. Wouldn't you agree that earth might consider us a threat.

"I also like the people who say Jesus was God in human form...however, if that was true, God didn't do it without a handicap...he didn't live as a human entirely: he still kep some of his power and divine knowledge."

I believe in the trinity myself, and yes you are correct in the sense of him keeping his divine knowledge, but if he were to come as a teacher and a savoir it would defeat the purpose of him being here at all if he didn't have those powers.

"And as for God enduring human suffering to relate to us? His time served seemed quite simple considering that he wasn't abused, molested or abandoned and didn't grow up with a child and no job while juggling debt and a heroin addiction. He even dies when he was about thirty-soe years old...he didn't grow weak and feeble, suffering from osteoperosis, cataracts, arthritis, senilism and all those other wonderful developments that come with the slow decay of time. All things considered, the only real suffering Jesus did was his crucifixion, as opposed to an entire lifetime of it. He also didn't seem to be interested in too many things sexual."


Who says his point was to relate to us? How do you even know what God has or hasn't endured before the creation of this world? And how do you know if dieing in that fashion is any better or worse then the stuff you mentioned? Be abused as a child, and live to stop other abusers as you grow up or hang on a cross by nails for three days before dieing? Grow old, live with the decay of time, and live with medically copeable problems (and sometimes drugged up euphoria, mmmmmmmmmm!), that eventually lead to bodily death anyways and an escape into the kingdom of God, or die in a humiliating and horrible fashion? I don't know, which would you prefer? Most people seem to prefer long life (even those who suffer the afflictions you mentioned, with the exception of the herione addict, they usually cease to care after a time). Also allow me to add that the Jews of the time valued long, healthy, and Godly life, above any thing else, they didn't have the same concept that alot of us have today of the beauty of dieing young. Also just as many people hated him as loved him, even after he was crucified. Jesus not having much to say about sex?
Your right on that, he simply states the harmful aspects of it. We construed all the other long list of supposed wrongs associated with sex in our own perverted little human minds.


"I've been waiting for this one. The old "sex + sin = punishment (disease)" argument. Alright. Do you remember the polio epidemic of the 30's? What about the bouts of smallpox that ravaged the world? Every time we have a major epidemic, we work through the night to find a prevention. We found it. Twice.

Polio.
VACCINE!

Smallpox.
VACCINE!

Herpes.
....Ummmm.....

Herpes, HPV and other STDs have contaminated 48 million people nationwide already. I'd say that qualifies as an epidemic. It's a simple, non-lethal virus...if we can clone a damned sheep, you would think we'd reverse-engineer a fucking retro-virus like HIV, especially if it was lethal. People like to say that since sex is the major transmitter of diseases, than sex is to blame. Sex doesn't kill us...its the VIRUS/BACTERIA that does; the DISEASE is our enemy. Render us immune to it, and we don't have (as much of) a problem."

I don't think we will reverse it, whether were capable or not is not the issue, the powers that be simply won't allow it, or don't care what the impoverished suffer from. For every disease we battle a new one will pop up. That's proven itself to be consistent throught the course of time. I don't think it's punishment, it's mereley reaping the rewards of our own actions. "The old "sex + sin = punishment (disease)" argument", wasn't what I was presenting, unless you consider being run over by a truck "punishment" for standing in front of it. Sex isn't to blame as much as the road we jump onto when the mack truck hits us.

"As far as unwanted pregnancy goes, there are safe surgical procedures and chemicals to take care of that. Control over our reproductive systems can easily eliminate that."

Yes, but being the fallible human beings that we are: we don't use condoms correctly (few people really do) and we control pregnancy if we have the medical insurance to cover it. Your limiting your scope to the people who can afford it.

"Overcoming trials makes us stronger, but it leaves scars. A lot of times, they leave deep ones, and some of them can even cripple a person. Not only that, but experience changes a person...may SEEM like a good idea, but change can happen for the good AND the bad, and considering the way the human brain works and interprets injury and pain, a good person can be turned bad by it. But, according to that last call, God doesn't care if that happens; he basically says "Hey, I told you.." and "If he can't see it, if he wants to let it get him down, tough cookies." What a sanctimonious asshole!"

This would be where we go to him, for the problems we can't solve. Humanity can be very cruel, the mass majority of suffering in the world is caused by (News Flash!) humans. If were suffering he wants us to go to him, he only wants us to deal with the problems that we CAN deal with. Not the ones we can't. He's there to bring us through it, if we swallow our pride and ask.

"Achievement DOES bring self-worth, but if its been a fixed game, you didn't really do it. For example, maybe it was you (or somebody) who said "God has made a person for me and who can relate to me...etc." Well, if you find that person, how much of an acheivement is that? If God made the person for you to find then he rigged the game. Sure, it worked in your favor, but you didn't do it on your own. Considering God asks people to go through a LOT of HORRIBLE shit alone with confidence as their guide, that's a pretty shitty way to run a railroad."

God made us all, life is a fixed game in the grand scheme of things, but your own walk isn't, you make the choices that bring you your own results. I'll give you the fact that some people suffer by no fault of their own, and I will agree with you that it sucks, however they have a better place to look forward to when this life ends.

 

[46and2]

Re: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (part 2)

"Sure, I guess (you bahstard romantics!)...IF you need that kind of fulfillment. The truth is (and what virtually EVERY religion refuses to admit) is that not all people are the same. Some are fragile and NEED a relationship like that.
Others (not as many) can just enjoy sex as a recreational activity, and be just as happy"

I suppose that's a simple and unproveable matter of opinion for both sides. I've met alot of people, and when they truly become honest with me about this (I never pry mind you, they end up talking to me).
They are just as fragile and in need of the emotional support that a relationship provides as the next person. The person you describe sums up the most insecure individuals I've ever met. But I could be wrong. Psychiatrists could be wrong about that behavoir as well.

";OR they can have a life partner for emotional support and lots of playmates to have fun with (ask the swingers). But NOOOOO, that would be having your cake and eating it too...and the only one allowed to do that is the big glowy bearded guy in the sky. Why? Because he SAYS so (big rationale)."

If the person wants that, they run thier own risks. That goes back to the fact that you don't know what the other person is carrying (they might not know themselves, and sometimes they do). Some people (few) might know how to play that kind of game carefully and kudos to them if they do. It just takes for you to invite the wrong person in your bedroom, you don't have complete control of it, even if you think you do. I have a friend whose HIV positive because the asshole she was with didn't have the decency to get himself tested before jumping the next womans bones. He didn't care about how it might affect other people, he even lied to her in order to get her in bed. The risk was both acceptable to him and so was the consequences suffered by the other people he slept with.

It isn't just because God says so again: it's harmful, so he doesn't want us to do it. Just like friends and family (if they are true) don't want you to do something harmful. Of course he's not down here stopping you.

"As far as the spiritual sex goes? That's EXACTLY what I meant when I said "spritual tax" on sex."

In order for it to be a tax, God would be the only one benefiting from it, if it enhances the experiance you have, it's not a tax, it's a gift.

"The people who do that aren't even having it all for themselves! There's a spiritual connection going on, and God always has a take of that, since he's the one overseeing the merits of the relationship. So sure, you could enjoy yourself, but only if God agrees to foot the bill, and only if he gets a share of the profit. Besides, have you ever READ those books and the way they describe the best way to HAVE romantic, spritually fulfilling sex? It reads like the instructions for a seance, not an orgasm."

I must say (LOL) I haven't read the books your talking about. But they sound very humerus. I never said sex has to be spiritual every time, or at all, it's enjoyable either way, especially on a primal level. We choose to enhance that part of our lives or we don't. It's not anymore right or wrong then oral sex is in a marriage. And somehow I don't think God wants us to go to him everytime when thinking of ways to please our spouse in that department.

"What I meant by being driven insane, I mean to say that without some kind of release, without some kind of pleasure, the mind goes insane with deprivation."

Which is why God doesn't take pleasure from us, he only wants us to steer clear of pleasure that leads to harmful things.

"And according to him, he can will us to deny it, like the old "if you know what's good for you-" expression that threatens something worse if you don't do what he says. Granted, we've already spoken about God's word vs. Man's interpretation, which is where you've got me beat."

Then I'll leave this one alone 😉.

"This is like being rewarded for denying your own self and expecting to like it because it should make you happy."

I look at it more as being stronger then the world around you, myself might be very interested in what it feels like to be on heroine (honestly, hey I'm human just like you 😉). But I've seen enough movies read enough William Burroughs, and frankly known enough people whose lives have been destroyed by it's use to know better then to give in to that part of myself. It might be denying myself, but I'm also saving myself.

"How do we even know what Heaven is like? Think about it, think of all the stuff we can do on Earth for fun that would break the divine rules without hurting anyone: let's say that people give it all up...what then? Then so many things that CAN be done are NOT done and it all goes to waste. All the possibilities the world provides are never used, which means it was useless to make them exist in the first place."

Man made inventions go to waste, the earths destruction will be brought upon by us, were fucking it up, not God. The possibillities the earth provides are being destroyed by man every day. As far as it being useless to make in the first place allow me to give you this analagy: If we are to say that we are all immortal in spirit (soul, whatever), and this world was meant as a testing ground in order for are spirit to grow up we have to learn to cope with certain things (enlightenment comes at a price, we don't know Gods origin well enough to say whether or not he paid a price for his. It's very possible and I don't think I'm overstepping my bounds as a Christian by saying so), and understand certain things (both before and after death) fully before we can do so, then even if this world is destroyed as an end result, it's worth it. Just like you might eventually throw out an old Final Exam that you got an A on and it got you your degree. Besides, if your incapable of harming others or yourself in heaven, then there is no sin possible. And why would you want it anyway?


"God seems so set on purity control, but he sure as fuck likes to contaminate creation, which makes it harder to get people in."

Why would he contaminate creation when we do such a good job of it ourselves (with a little help from a fallen angel)?


"If a pedophile avoids children to behave himself so he can get to Heaven, does that mean he gets his own "harem" when he gets there? (sounds ridiculous, but that's just an example). Chances are no because in Heaven, every type of pleasure on Earth wouldn't even compare....Well, where's the fun in THAT?! What kind of fucking place IS Heaven?!! And if Heaven is such a better place than Earth...what the fuck are we doing here?!"

If you don't know the pleasures of heaven, wouldn't something new and much better be alot more enticing then the mediocrity of what we experiance here? I answered your last question earlier.

"I don't like this idea because it means I'd have to be something somebody else wants me to be instead of myself."

No you truly know yourself when you die, without the physical programming and baggage of the world with you.

"If my own self places people as more important than God, meaningless pleasure over Divine enlightenment, ambiguous individuality over certain conformity, than so be it...but I don't like the idea of being penalized for being myself, especially if I don't hurt anybody over it."

If Gods existance and beauty is proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt when you die, then is it being "penalized", or is it being shown the truth?

"Very true. I'm guilty of it. But I'm held accountable if it fucks up. God isn't. God isn't called to answer for anything because it was either somebody elses fault or his plan from the beginning. Either way, God doesn't face 25-life in prison for anything he does. That and the fact that anything I do out of self-gratification usually doesn't involve someone else's entire life."

What does he have to answer for? The suffering in the world? Things we've been warned of but we've done anyways? Tyranny caused by men with a god-complex, or greed as motivation? Somehow that's his fault because we are intent on destroying one another? Or the fact that our society creates and nurtures psycopaths (a whole 'nother can of worms I know)? Why do you think the worst psycopaths in the world are the ones who twist Gods word to their own sick tendencies? Why do you think those who truly honor and love him are the happiest people you'll ever meet (I know there's a share of androids out there who sacrafice thought and accountability in order to hide under the wing of corrupt churches and cults, that's not who I'm talking about)? If we win in the end anyway, is it self-gratification on Gods part, especially if it's a symbiotic relationship which both parties benefit from (God and humans)? What if you actually found out that the reward was worth all you had suffered? I feel like I've gotten a good glimpse of that through my relationship with God.
Peace
-Phil

 

[ITickleGuysAlot]

Tickling is not a sin, sex before marriage is a sin

If you do tickling as foreplay with someone you're not married to, that is a sin of sexual immorality.

If you tickle someone in a non-sexual manner (yes, non-sexual tickling does exist), then it is not sex.

Amnesiac and others are wrong when they characterize God as a Creator who does not want us to have fun. There is no passage in the written Word that says Christians can not have fun. In fact, God WANTS us to have "..peace, love, and JOY in the Holy Spirit...".

Amnesiac and others mistake their immoral fleshly desires with pure joy and then believe God is keeping joy from them. Amnesiac also immplied that God is devious because he is omniscient and knows we will sin. God gave us the gift of free-will. As humans, we don't blame a person for someone else's criminal actions simply because they knew it was going to happen.

God knows we will sin, he also warns of us sin, therefore we can not blame Him. He ALSO sacrificed his only Son (who was, is, and always will be perfect and blameless) so that we may have eternal life. That doesn't sound like a God who doesn't care about us or doesn't want us to be saved.

The New Testiment teaches us of a new coveninant we Christians have in Jesus Christ. It does not have its foundation on laws or rules and regulations, but on Jesus Himself.

As followers of Christ, we no longer have to make a list of do's and don'ts. We simply must remember that in everything we do, "...do to the glory of God."

I think ticklishness is a cool and fun thing God created in human bodies, thus in essence it glorifies God. Of course, as I stated earlier, the bible teaches that it is immoral and a sin to have sexual relations before marriage. Thus, unless with our spouse, we should not do tickling if we do it as foreplay or sexual play. We should obey and trust God, for He knows that it will give us more joy if we wait for marriage.

Anyway, Tickle On Fellow Christian Brothers and Sisters!

Jay

 

[del]

Christian brethren could you see yourself marrying a woman who has forsaken Christ for lust and debauchery?
A woman who has become hardened in sin and has lost her conscience as a result of mocking the grace of Christ?

Who can find a virtuos woman?

 

[Amnesiac]

I think it's time to clear a few poorly phrased points up...that and some more of my patented funny skits.

Now then, 46and2:

They are just as fragile and in need of the emotional support that a relationship provides as the next person. The person you describe sums up the most insecure individuals I've ever met.

How so? Maybe the culture that we have NOW are the insecure ones. What I'm entertaining are the POSSIBILITIES. If it WERE possible to have a happy, fulfilling recreational sex life without religious/marital connotations, then why not go for it? It would then be fun to chastise God for not mentioning that such a thing was possible in the first place.

That's the thing about fragility: I don't like it (maybe others do, so I won't get on them). It prevents me from handling shit that comes my way, or it interferes with my ability to do EVERYTHING myself. And taking your view into this matter, God made people fragile...so they mostly need the help of others, INCLUDING him. So he designed flaws so that we would always come running to him. Mechanics do this to your car so you have to keep coming back to them. It's called profiteering. And it's illegal because it's exploitive of another person's weakness.

If the person wants that, they run thier own risks. That goes back to the fact that you don't know what the other person is carrying (they might not know themselves, and sometimes they do).

This one was my fault. I wasn't clear enough. Just because I said that people like this can exist didn't mean that they should be RECKLESS (oh nononononono!) Recklessness is what gets everyone into trouble! Yes it is harmful if you aren't careful, but that doesn't mean it can't EVER work...but God hasn't said that has he? Things that make ya go "Hmmmmmmmmm..."

And as for the flaws in my disease/reproductive arguments...you're right. But that doesn't mean there isn't a way to fix that. I'm sure it can be done without resorting to fascist and invasive laws, but I haven't figured it out yet. When I do, I'll let you know.

AMN:
let's say that people give it all up...what then? Then so many things that CAN be done are NOT done and it all goes to waste. All the possibilities the world provides are never used, which means it was useless to make them exist in the first place."

46and2:
Man made inventions go to waste, the earths destruction will be brought upon by us, were fucking it up, not God. The possibillities the earth provides are being destroyed by man every day

Yes, this is true. But I wasn't referring to material things (I KNOW man's resposible for that, LOL!). I was referring to abstracts. Potentials. Things like recreational sex, non-marital tickling, other things that aren't God-endorsed that are fun but not necessarily harmful. If you give that up just to get to Heaven, then it all goes to waste. All that potential that is allowed by the laws of physics goes to waste because it never gets used.

this world was meant as a testing ground in order for are spirit to grow up we have to learn to cope with certain things (enlightenment comes at a price, we don't know Gods origin well enough to say whether or not he paid a price for his. It's very possible and I don't think I'm overstepping my bounds as a Christian by saying so), and understand certain things (both before and after death) fully before we can do so, then even if this world is destroyed as an end result, it's worth it.

Here's a point I've never made but have always wanted to. Why do you Christians look to Heaven as the ultimate goal? Everybody talks about it like its "the Promised Land...gotta get there!" And everyone's so fast to do everything they can to get there, mostly because of what's promised. Sounds like a bribe to me. I don't care HOW good it sounds, the whole principle of being rewarded in some extravagant way for a lifetime of servitude sounds a bit corrupt to me. Y'know, if we have to give up certain luxuries to get to Heaven, why even bother making the luxuries in the first place? It's inefficient.

I'm not even talking about the destruction of Earth. If I spend my life doing good things to get to Heaven, even if that means avoiding action that could solve Earth's problems, I may get to Heaven but that still leaves a lot of people on Earth with a lot of problems...and those problems might just cost them a ride on the Heavenly Express. Now, that seems quite selfish of me to leave shit behind for others to deal with when I could have gotten rid of it myself by breaking the rules.

But I like that comment about God's origins...you;re starting to think like me in some ways.

Why would he contaminate creation when we do such a good job of it ourselves

Good question. But he created the flaws in humans that made us get to the point to making the mistakes that fuck up the world. And since he KNEW what would happen, that makes him partly responsible. Yeah, you can say that he warns us all the time, but that still doesn't make us NATURALLY stronger...doesn't make our brain physiology more capable of dealing with confusion or poor impulse control...it just makes us ignore it. Doesn't make it go away though, and everbody has a breaking point, some less than others.

If you don't know the pleasures of heaven, wouldn't something new and much better be alot more enticing then the mediocrity of what we experiance here?

Again, I dunno. If all these pleasures are mediocre and not as good, what the fuck are they DOING here?! Why are they here for us to waste our time on?! Seems like you could get from point A to B a lot quicker without them.

you truly know yourself when you die, without the physical programming and baggage of the world with you

What about sin? Isn't that baggage that you accumulated in the world? That doesn't seem to go away, not according to the literature.

If Gods existance and beauty is proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt when you die, then is it being "penalized", or is it being shown the truth?

In a way it kind of would be. It would have meant that I spent a lot of time and a lot of work on a plane of existence that doesn't even matter in the long run. Also, you ever see that movie "The Game"? Where Michael Douglas is a stuffy executive who gets put through hell by the evil prank corporation that eventually wears down his spirit and in the end it turns out his brother was behind it all to get him to accept his mortality and enjoy life (if you haven;t seen it, too bad, you should have!)? It seems kind of like that, where on Earth you;re put through hell so that you eventually grow in some way...but that doesn't make it a good thing. If humans put God through a trial like that, we'd wind up in Cocytus SOOOOOOO fast! But if he does it to us, we should forget how pissed we would be at all the suffering we went through and just be happy. If I found that out at the end I would BEAT HIS ASS!

If we win in the end anyway, is it self-gratification on Gods part, especially if it's a symbiotic relationship which both parties benefit from (God and humans)?

In a way yes, because he would know that he was behind it all. He rigged the game, he fixed the plays, so he knows that all these people are happy because of HIM. He made people happy, he saved them, he's the one who gets the praise. Sounds like an egomaniac of untold proportions. We may get happy, but he gets the credit, and the merit. Sounds like in the end we get bupkis either way, but are happy about it...is THAT really what it's all about? being happy? Is that the limit of our vision or experience?

I'll put the skits on the next post.

 

[Amnesiac]

SKITS!

Now, a lighter tone. My patented humorous skits that place the issues in a philosophical, yet funny light.

ITickleGuysALot:
Amnesiac and others are wrong when they characterize God as a Creator who does not want us to have fun. There is no passage in the written Word that says Christians can not have fun. In fact, God WANTS us to have "..peace, love, and JOY in the Holy Spirit...".

Man and God are taking the escalator to Earth.

GOD: Nervous?

MAN: Yah. I'm wondering about this whole mortality thing. It sounds rough.

GOD: Don't worry, I'll be watching you the whole way.

MAN: Sweet.

GOD: Of course I won't do anything directly, but I will be beisde you the whole way.

MAN:...what do you mean "not directly?"

GOD: Oh well, I won't be doing anything myself really. But don't worry, I will be giving you advice of course.

MAN: Oh! Cool!

GOD: Of course, the advice will be cryptic and vague and mostly told in the form of parables, so it won't be easy, you'll have to figure it out.

MAN:...well, what if I don't have a lot of time to figure it out.

GOD: Then you'd better think fast. LOL!

MAN: Um...about this "love of life" thing you mentioned?

GOD: Yes?

MAN: What does that include exactly?

GOD: Well, you will have to do some sacrificing, but you can have fun.

MAN: What's that?

GOD: Peace, love and JOY in the Holy Spirit.

MAN: Oh, I see...uh, this fun thing? Is it always in the Holy Spirit?

GOD: What do you mean?

MAN: Well, is all the joy out there part of the Holy Spirit?

GOD: OH! No, there's a lot out there that isn't! A lot of joy out there that is harmful to others and some that is sinful.

MAN: But...there's some that isn't, right?

GOD: ..I-Isn't?

MAN: Well, there's Joy in the Holy Spirit, right?

GOD: YES m'boy!

MAN: And there's joy WITHOUT the Holy Spirit, right?

GOD: Oh yes.

MAN: Well...is there any joy that isn't part of the Holy Spirit that ISN'T harmful or sinful? Y'know, kind of in-between stuff?

GOD: Well....uh...technically...yes, there is.

MAN: What's wrong with that?

GOD: Well...I don't really endorse that kind of thing y'see? It's not something I'm a part of so I'd just-

MAN: You mean, since you;re not behind it, you don't want us to do it.

GOD: Yes. Yes that's it.

MAN: Well, why do you have to be the center of attention?

GOD: Say again?

MAN: Well I mean that's pretty stupid to say that. I mean if there's swing sets out there that don't say "God, Inc." on them but are STILL safe, why can't we play on them? Just because you didn't make them?

GOD: No, not at all. I just want you to have a good time that still reflects the goodness of my creation.

MAN: Yeah, but why does EVERYTHING gotta do that? Can;t you have fun for the sake of having fun? I mean, just because you create something doesn't mean everything's all about you. David Mamet creates his plays that doesn't mean he's gotta be in every scene or every action has to revolve around him!

GOD: See, the thing about that is-

God pushes the Man off the escalator, letting him fall to Earth.


God knows we will sin, he also warns of us sin, therefore we can not blame Him.

Trial. God in witness stand, prosecutor cross-examining.

D.A.: Now then, why do you claim that you are blameless in the death of little Cindy Marvell?

GOD: Because I gave her fair warning.

D.A.: Fair warning? None of the eyewitnesses can place you at the scene at the time she was struck down and killed by the bus on that day. How are you exempt from culpability?

GOD: *sigh* I had warned Cindy long ago to watch out for buses and cars when she crossed the street. She obviously didn't listen.

D.A.: The bus in question had faulty brake lines. Not only that, but the driver has been implicated in many cases of reckless driving and indicates that he did not see Cindy as she crossed the street.

GOD: Hey, I TOLD her to look out for buses, that means all buses: big buses, little buses, runaway buses, buses driven by reckless drivers. Not my fault.

D.A.: The eyewitnesses have told us that Cindy did look both ways before she ventured out.

GOD: She obviously wasn't looking hard enough or else she wouldn't have been hit.

D.A.: God, I would like to remind you that Cindy was blind her left eye, a birth defect that YOU installed upon her before birth. She looked both ways, but was nevertheless incapable of seeing out of the one eye that could have spared her.

GOD: Then she should have compensated for it. I did my job.

D.A.: During this accident that you saw coming, did you at any time try to pull her out of the way?

GOD: Nope. I gave her a warning, and she obviously didn't listen. I don't do your work for you.

D.A.: That falls under "depraved indifference to human life", Mr. Jehovah.

DEFENSE: Objection your honor! Page 83, section 5, subsection 9, paragraph 12, verses 3-15 of the Biblical law clearly indicate that my client, upon providing adequate council in advance to dependant renders him immune to any and all prosecution or blame for any circumstance that may befall the subject.

D.A.: A book that the defendant WROTE your honor!

GOD: Hey, it's gooooooood to be the king.


Last one.

If we win in the end anyway, is it self-gratification on Gods part, especially if it's a symbiotic relationship which both parties benefit from (God and humans)? What if you actually found out that the reward was worth all you had suffered?

God is talking to a Man as he ascends the Stairway to Heaven (no Zeppelin playing, surprisingly).

MAN: So this is it huh?

GOD: Yes it is. Been waiting a while for it eh?

MAN: Oh yeah. Long time. Worked hard to get here.

GOD: Ah, you were a good man, you were a shoo-in a long time ago.

MAN: I was?

GOD: Mmm-hmmm.

MAN: Well that's good. What's waiting for me up there?

GOD: Peace, love, enlightement and joy.

MAN: Ah, that's swell. Hey, uh, I got a question.

GOD: Shoot.

MAN: Back down there, I was still working on my house...y'know the one I'd been saving for forty years to get? Well, I didn't finish it and I was wondering, will that be up there waiting for me? I got some ideas about the new roof-"

GOD: Oh nonononono, you won't have to worry about that up here.

MAN: What? You mean it's not there?

GOD: Of course not.

MAN: Why not?!

GOD: You;re in Heaven, you won't need it anymore.

MAN: Won't NEED it? I never got the chance to USE it!

GOD: Why does that matter?

MAN: Why does-!? I spent forty years saving up for that house! I worked two jobs while going to school to get my degree to get a career to make the money to GET that house! My wife LEFT me because she said I was neglecting her, when REALLY all I was doing was working to get the money to BUILD that house for us! I lost sleep, money, my wife, my friends and forty years of my life for that house and now I can't even have it?! I wasn't even DONE with the fucking thing!

GOD: That-That's all behind you now, that is an Earthly thing, it's all left behind-

MAN: You damn RIGHT it;s left behind! That's my house dammit! The thing I've been working for!

GOD: You've left it behind for something better!

MAN: What's better?!

GOD: Peace, love, joy-

MAN: I know, you told me! You said I was gonna get that anyway if I was gonna get up here because I was a good man! I did'n HAVE to do all of what I did to get up here and I STILL would have gotten that! What about the 40 years I slaved away that I didn't have to? What about that?

GOD: It built character, it made you stronger in spirit.

MAN: No, it built my house! Don't I get any fucking compensation for that?! I want my life back dammit, I want something for those 40 years!

Another man steps forward.

MAN 2: You won't get it.

MAN: Who are you?

MAN 2: Eh, hellbound castoff.

MAN: Shit. What for?

MAN 2: Ah, technicality. Slept around without getting married.

MAN: Oh, broke a lot of hearts?

MAN 2: Not really, I just...didn't get married. No one ever bitched to me about anything.

GOD: Hey, I told you that was against the rules and you didn't listen, so you got what you deserved.

MAN 2: Yeah, but I didn't hurt anybody, that's gotta count for something.

GOD: Doesn't matter, it's against the rules and that's what counts.

MAN 2: Yeah, but that's a rule that doesn't make sense...it doesn't accomplish anything except uniformity.

GOD: I don't have to explain myself to you, sinner.

MAN 2: See, here's the thing I don't get.

MAN: What?

MAN 2: You got all this stuff going down on Earth right? And we got all these frailties that influence what we do right?

MAN: Right.

MAN 2: Now glowrod here says that we have to do all these things in order to get to Heaven. But he doesn't get rid of the things that get in our way, he just tells us to ignore the shit, as though we could make it go away if we want to, right?

MAN:...hey, you;re right.

MAN 2: What I don't get is...if you take 1000 people and put 'em on Earth with all these frailties, not all of 'em are gonna make it back to Heaven, may case in point. So why bother putting them on Earth in the first place? Why not cut your losses and leave Earth out of the equation, just keep everybody here and keep all 1000 people? It's inefficient.

MAN: Yeah, how come?

GOD: BEcause...SHUT UP! THAT'S WHY!

End.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

What a long winded thread. But then, Theology's a long winded subject.
Theology's insidious as well. You never know when it's gonna get you! My cousin's gotten involved: he came home from work one day to find his mother-in-law conducting a bible study in his den with his wife and some other people, and as is his wont (one of the most arrogant people you will ever meet) he got into an argument with everyone, and as a result, took up Theology as his new interest. Result: he started his own religion. I luuuuuuuuv my cousin, don't get me wrong...I mean, I did help change his diapers. It's just that, all that sanctimoniousness can grate on one, and it DO become boring. More boring than you will ever catch wind of.
Look, what makes your life span shorter is letting the GUILT concept take over. It's the GUILT concept that started this thread in the first place. Unless you're hurting other people with your actions, you have nothing to feel guilty for. You can accept Christ as your savior (personally, I don't- have never, ever understood the Christian concept of sin and redemption, and never will, but I digress), and not feel guilty. If you don't enjoy life- and life certainly can be beautiful if you work to make it so- than what the fuck is it all for? What do all of us on this board have in common? We love to make people laugh...by manual means, of course, but the end result is the same. Some (oh, shit, MOST) of us have a sexual bent in regards to same, but still, we're making people laugh. I don't think there's really anything wrong with that, if we're not hurting other human beings through our actions. Stop feeling guilty. It's the concept of guilt that makes it easier for those with nefarious purposes to control your lives, for the simple reason that that lack of control constitutes a threat.
Like a deceased very close friend of mine used to say, "live the life". Enjoy yourselves. Just LIVE! 😎