Re: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (part 2)
"Sure, I guess (you bahstard romantics!)...IF you need that kind of fulfillment. The truth is (and what virtually EVERY religion refuses to admit) is that not all people are the same. Some are fragile and NEED a relationship like that.
Others (not as many) can just enjoy sex as a recreational activity, and be just as happy"
I suppose that's a simple and unproveable matter of opinion for both sides. I've met alot of people, and when they truly become honest with me about this (I never pry mind you, they end up talking to me).
They are just as fragile and in need of the emotional support that a relationship provides as the next person. The person you describe sums up the most insecure individuals I've ever met. But I could be wrong. Psychiatrists could be wrong about that behavoir as well.
";OR they can have a life partner for emotional support and lots of playmates to have fun with (ask the swingers). But NOOOOO, that would be having your cake and eating it too...and the only one allowed to do that is the big glowy bearded guy in the sky. Why? Because he SAYS so (big rationale)."
If the person wants that, they run thier own risks. That goes back to the fact that you don't know what the other person is carrying (they might not know themselves, and sometimes they do). Some people (few) might know how to play that kind of game carefully and kudos to them if they do. It just takes for you to invite the wrong person in your bedroom, you don't have complete control of it, even if you think you do. I have a friend whose HIV positive because the asshole she was with didn't have the decency to get himself tested before jumping the next womans bones. He didn't care about how it might affect other people, he even lied to her in order to get her in bed. The risk was both acceptable to him and so was the consequences suffered by the other people he slept with.
It isn't just because God says so again: it's harmful, so he doesn't want us to do it. Just like friends and family (if they are true) don't want you to do something harmful. Of course he's not down here stopping you.
"As far as the spiritual sex goes? That's EXACTLY what I meant when I said "spritual tax" on sex."
In order for it to be a tax, God would be the only one benefiting from it, if it enhances the experiance you have, it's not a tax, it's a gift.
"The people who do that aren't even having it all for themselves! There's a spiritual connection going on, and God always has a take of that, since he's the one overseeing the merits of the relationship. So sure, you could enjoy yourself, but only if God agrees to foot the bill, and only if he gets a share of the profit. Besides, have you ever READ those books and the way they describe the best way to HAVE romantic, spritually fulfilling sex? It reads like the instructions for a seance, not an orgasm."
I must say (LOL) I haven't read the books your talking about. But they sound very humerus. I never said sex has to be spiritual every time, or at all, it's enjoyable either way, especially on a primal level. We choose to enhance that part of our lives or we don't. It's not anymore right or wrong then oral sex is in a marriage. And somehow I don't think God wants us to go to him everytime when thinking of ways to please our spouse in that department.
"What I meant by being driven insane, I mean to say that without some kind of release, without some kind of pleasure, the mind goes insane with deprivation."
Which is why God doesn't take pleasure from us, he only wants us to steer clear of pleasure that leads to harmful things.
"And according to him, he can will us to deny it, like the old "if you know what's good for you-" expression that threatens something worse if you don't do what he says. Granted, we've already spoken about God's word vs. Man's interpretation, which is where you've got me beat."
Then I'll leave this one alone
.
"This is like being rewarded for denying your own self and expecting to like it because it should make you happy."
I look at it more as being stronger then the world around you, myself might be very interested in what it feels like to be on heroine (honestly, hey I'm human just like you
). But I've seen enough movies read enough William Burroughs, and frankly known enough people whose lives have been destroyed by it's use to know better then to give in to that part of myself. It might be denying myself, but I'm also saving myself.
"How do we even know what Heaven is like? Think about it, think of all the stuff we can do on Earth for fun that would break the divine rules without hurting anyone: let's say that people give it all up...what then? Then so many things that CAN be done are NOT done and it all goes to waste. All the possibilities the world provides are never used, which means it was useless to make them exist in the first place."
Man made inventions go to waste, the earths destruction will be brought upon by us, were fucking it up, not God. The possibillities the earth provides are being destroyed by man every day. As far as it being useless to make in the first place allow me to give you this analagy: If we are to say that we are all immortal in spirit (soul, whatever), and this world was meant as a testing ground in order for are spirit to grow up we have to learn to cope with certain things (enlightenment comes at a price, we don't know Gods origin well enough to say whether or not he paid a price for his. It's very possible and I don't think I'm overstepping my bounds as a Christian by saying so), and understand certain things (both before and after death) fully before we can do so, then even if this world is destroyed as an end result, it's worth it. Just like you might eventually throw out an old Final Exam that you got an A on and it got you your degree. Besides, if your incapable of harming others or yourself in heaven, then there is no sin possible. And why would you want it anyway?
"God seems so set on purity control, but he sure as fuck likes to contaminate creation, which makes it harder to get people in."
Why would he contaminate creation when we do such a good job of it ourselves (with a little help from a fallen angel)?
"If a pedophile avoids children to behave himself so he can get to Heaven, does that mean he gets his own "harem" when he gets there? (sounds ridiculous, but that's just an example). Chances are no because in Heaven, every type of pleasure on Earth wouldn't even compare....Well, where's the fun in THAT?! What kind of fucking place IS Heaven?!! And if Heaven is such a better place than Earth...what the fuck are we doing here?!"
If you don't know the pleasures of heaven, wouldn't something new and much better be alot more enticing then the mediocrity of what we experiance here? I answered your last question earlier.
"I don't like this idea because it means I'd have to be something somebody else wants me to be instead of myself."
No you truly know yourself when you die, without the physical programming and baggage of the world with you.
"If my own self places people as more important than God, meaningless pleasure over Divine enlightenment, ambiguous individuality over certain conformity, than so be it...but I don't like the idea of being penalized for being myself, especially if I don't hurt anybody over it."
If Gods existance and beauty is proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt when you die, then is it being "penalized", or is it being shown the truth?
"Very true. I'm guilty of it. But I'm held accountable if it fucks up. God isn't. God isn't called to answer for anything because it was either somebody elses fault or his plan from the beginning. Either way, God doesn't face 25-life in prison for anything he does. That and the fact that anything I do out of self-gratification usually doesn't involve someone else's entire life."
What does he have to answer for? The suffering in the world? Things we've been warned of but we've done anyways? Tyranny caused by men with a god-complex, or greed as motivation? Somehow that's his fault because we are intent on destroying one another? Or the fact that our society creates and nurtures psycopaths (a whole 'nother can of worms I know)? Why do you think the worst psycopaths in the world are the ones who twist Gods word to their own sick tendencies? Why do you think those who truly honor and love him are the happiest people you'll ever meet (I know there's a share of androids out there who sacrafice thought and accountability in order to hide under the wing of corrupt churches and cults, that's not who I'm talking about)? If we win in the end anyway, is it self-gratification on Gods part, especially if it's a symbiotic relationship which both parties benefit from (God and humans)? What if you actually found out that the reward was worth all you had suffered? I feel like I've gotten a good glimpse of that through my relationship with God.
Peace
-Phil
