Well, well, well....the truth about Shaq.

[primetime]

This post is to all the Shaq lovers out there. remember a few years back when i blasted Shaq for being "fat and lazy" and it was because of SHAQ, not Kobe, that he is no longer a Laker. It was about money, not his "beef" with Kobe. But noooooooooooo, all you Kobe/Laker haters all cried and whined about Shaq is the best and he is THE reason for championships. Now granted, Shaq has another ring, but he should thank Dwyane Wade for that ring. Without Wade's heroics in the NBA finals, Snack O'neal would still have as many rings as Kobe.

Now, why am i bringing this up? I caught something on CNN.com in regards to Shaq. read it and weep boys....

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/2252

No one really wants to talk about it, but the Heat's main issue is the decline of Shaquille O'Neal with three years left on his contract at $20 million per season. Miami insiders said not only was O'Neal indifferent to the regular season, as usual, and this time had knee surgery, but he'd even go so far as to tell teammates not to bother with defense, apparently to not make his own indifference look bad. Frankly, it's difficult to see many teams that would even take a chance on him. Would Dallas panic and take a last shot with Shaq? Maybe for Erick Dampier, Devin Harris and a sign-and-trade with Jerry Stackhouse to give the Heat some life again?

Read the fan responses to the article itself. Sounds like Laker fans not too long ago...


gee, this sounds EXACTLY like Laker fans a few years ago talking about Shaq. We kept telling all of you over and over and over again about Shaq's work ethics, but you didnt want to believe it. It was pure hatred of Kobe that fans couldn't see WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. My question to you haters is this: If Shaq was all that, WHY is there even an article about Shaq in Miami in regards to his work ethic and the desire to perhaps trade him? Maybe because us Laker fans WERE RIGHT about Shaq. Please explain.

This should be fun......

 

[tickletoy3]

Ok Prime, I'll bite. For your main question, the answer is simple. It's Miami. Just like NY or LA any time your team loses the media starts slinging mud. It's sells papers and gets viewers. Seeing as Wade is the Miami darling and is injured, Shaq was the natural target. My guess is Riley will probably be next if he doesn't resign or retire.

Seems "Mean" Joe Greene was a wise man. Many years ago when the Pittsburgh Steelers had just won Super Bowl 14 over the LA Rams, Greene stood by himself in a corner watching the team celebrate and the ensuing media hype frenzy. When asked why he seemed somewhat somber, given the moment that Pittsburgh had just won it's 4th Super Bowl in 6 years, he replied "Because what does it really mean? Next year it will be 'What have you done for me lately?'" In short he was saying fans and media forget. Forget fast.

Shaq haters seem to think he just graduated from LSU and should be pulling down boards with all star numbers and scoring 40 points a game. And how old is Shaq now? Those years are long gone and will never return no matter how much a team pays him. And Shaq never ever could hit a free throw. He and his fans have never claimed he could. But last year when Miami won the title not a word about it. Hmm.. Wise man that Mr. Greene.

To say Shaq owes everything to Kobe and Wade is hilarious. I ask you this.. how many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? How many rings does Wade have without Shaq? If Shaq were such a liability, non producer and distraction do you really think he and/or both of those guys would have rings??

Shaq + Kobe = 3 rings
Shaq + Wade = 1 ring

Wade - Shaq = 0
Kobe - Shaq = 0

As far as I'm concerned Shaq has already done the improbable if not impossible. He went to a completely new team, new coach, new system and did what? Helped produce a NBA title. Weird seeing as he's such a fat, lazy distraction. Shaq no longer has to prove himself to anyone. He has enough NBA gold to sink a battleship and that pretty much says it all.

For Shaq haters though it could never be enough. He could go to Dallas or even Phoenix, or one of those 'good' teams yet not great and win yet another title. But Shaq haters would still fail to see that Shaq is what ultimately got them over the hill and while not the main reason - still he provided that tiny threat or just enough defensive distraction to open the way for another teammate to shine. And yes, prove that teamwork, not all stars or guys that score 80 points a game, is what wins championships. Again, Shaq no longer has to prove himself to anyone.

And let me say this for the 1000th time. No one man will and can do it all. Not Shaq, Not Kobe (although he likes to try), Not Wade. Nobody. Teamwork wins titles.

Also note they have the rope ready for Dirk in Dallas too. Yep, wise man that Mr. Greene.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Wade was the main reason they won that title, but they wouldn't have won w/o Shaq.

 

[jaba]

this is what i don't get, Prime......

as a laker, when Shaq got hurt, "Shaq Albert" waited until the NBA season started to get recommended off season surgery, and said "hey, I got hurt on "company time "(meaning he got hurt during the season), so I'm gonna heal on "company time", so the lakers had to wait until his fat ass decided that HE wanted to get surgery, and return to the team....

Phil Jackson admitted that he liked Shaq, but Shaq was the "hardest player he ever dealt with when it came to motivating him to get in, and stay in shape".....

Shaq averaged only about half a season of playing time due to injuries during his years with the Lakers, but he demanded the maximum money on his upcoming contract, or he said he would leave, and during a game, he embarassed owner jerry buss who was seated at a game by yelling out "Pay Me!" in front of the crowd watching the game.....

Kobe haters blame Kobe for Shaq leaving, and sure he may have played a part in the departure, but Jerry buss could have demanded that Shaq play out the remaining two years of his contract in L A, even though he risked the younger and emerging Kobe leaving to go with the Clippers or some other team....love Kobe or hate him, Kobe comes to play and in shape EVERY season, plays through injuries when the trainers recommend that he not play, and is still arguably the most talented player in the league today......

So as a businessman, do you stick with an unmotivated, out of shape, injury prone malcontent who wants maximum money in his declining years, based on Shaq's own statistics?

despite the outcome, I still think the Lakers made the right decision to move Shaq given the unfavorable situation....and suprise, suprise, Shaq becomes "motivated" to get his fat ass on a treadmill in the year before contract negotiations in Miami, and he contributes to the Heat winning a championship, because when HE decides he wants to play, he still is the most dominating center in the NBA.....

where the lakers screwed up, in my opinion, is the abismal ass team of trash players they have put with KOBE....in prior years, they have passed on Chris Bosh, Leandro Barbosa, Manu Ginobli, Jason Kidd, Tony Parker, Ron Artest and Baron Davis, at various times when a little creative dealing could have gotten any of those players, who are all still in the NBA playoffs, I believe, except that "head case" Ron Artest....

and I still maintain that the greatest loss to the lakers was Jerry west leaving, who had the vision to see Kobe's talent at age 17, and who pulled off the trade for Shaq in the motivated prime of Shaq's carreer....

so Kobe haters give the Laker organization a free pass for putting a third rate team around Kobe, But kiss the feet of Shaq who called Los Angeles fans "a bunch of fakes" when he left town.......sometimes I think Shaq is right....Laker fans DO act like a bunch of fakes.......

 

[primetime]

this thread was started to finally show the Kobe/Laker haters that the Laker organization did NOT make a mistake in trading that fat bum Shaq in 2004. The mistake they made was they didn't get anything in return. For some idiotic reason, people still can't see the true Shaq. He's MONEY HUNGRY. He left Orlando because LA paid him more. He left LA because Miami was going to pay him more. But people blame Kobe for his departure. Shaq was going to leave the Lakers even if he and Kobe were best friends. For YEARS LA fans noticed the decline in Shaq's "motivation" and we only tolerated it because he was a Laker. When Shaq left, everyone thought LA was stupid, but if certain TMF posters remember, it was me that told all of you Shaq lovers that the same "lazy, unmotivated" Shaq was going to re-appear in Miami. You doubters hooted and hollered that it wouldnt happen and here it is. In black and white.

I find it hilarious tickletoy, that you continue to indicate Shaq is THE reason why teams win championships. Then how come he never won one in Orlando? When he got to LA, he didnt win until Phil got there. In Miami, he SAT ON THE FREAKIN BENCH in critical situations during the NBA finals and Dwyane Wade is the SOLE reason why the Heat won last year. Take Wade away and the Heat lose to the choking Mavericks.

Shaq at one time was the most fearsome center in the NBA. He is living off reputation at this point. When the Detroit Pistons decided to NOT double team Shaq and stop Kobe and the rest, that's when everyone should have realized that Shaq is not T-H-E reason why teams win titles. For all the crap that people say Kobe is a ball hog, Shaq was THE GUY WHO ACTUALLY TOLD THE MEDIA, "you've got to feed the big dog the ball". Kobe never said anything like that.

Tickletoy, notice Jaba has come in an said his piece. notice that it sounds eerily similar to the arguments i was giving you 2 years ago. Shaq is a fraud during the last 5 years. I love the way you make silly equations too. How about these.

Shaq + Kobe = 3 titles
Shaq + Wade = 1 title

Shaq - Kobe - Wade = ZERO titles

Kobe without Shaq = to be determined
Wade without Shaq = to be determined

I can just as easily come up with equations too.

Face it folks, Shaq has a bunch of people fooled because he is a "lovable" guy in the media. But if anyone ever stops and pays attention to Shaq's own words, they can see what he is truly about. HIMSELF. He is much more of a selfish athlete than Kobe Bryant ever will be. His track record proves it.

Hey Jaba, once Mitch Kupchak gets his head out his ass and gets Kobe help, then we will contend for a championship.

Also to the Kobe haters. If Kobe was truly a glory hound, if he only cared about doing it by himself, why is he currently asking management "to do something" so he can win a title? If Kobe thought he could do it by himself, he would stick with the stiffs that he has currently and try to score a thousand points on his own. Your opinion of Kobe Bryant is so off base, it's hilarious.

 

[tickletoy3]

I find it hilarious tickletoy, that you continue to indicate Shaq is THE reason why teams win championships.

First, I never said Shaq was THE reason. I simply contend that he was a productive contributor in winning the championship. In last year's finals Shaq was blocking shots, diving for loose balls and even (surprise surprise) hitting free throws when they counted most. I would call that being productive. You contend that he is lazy, fat and selfish.

Then how come he never won one in Orlando?

One man can't win a title alone. Who besides overrated Penny did he have to help him? He was pretty much in the same boat as Kobe is now with the Lakers. Why hasn't Kobe won one in LA without Shaq? Same difference.

When he got to LA, he didnt win until Phil got there.

How many titles did Michael Jordan win without Phil?

In Miami, he SAT ON THE FREAKIN BENCH in critical situations during the NBA finals and Dwyane Wade is the SOLE reason why the Heat won last year. Take Wade away and the Heat lose to the choking Mavericks.

I think we were watching different finals. Herein lies the main difference between Wade and Kobe. NOT ONCE has Wade ever said anything public or whine to the owners or coaches in Miami about Shaq. In fact he applauds Shaq's efforts in the Finals and BOTH parties agree that NEITHER would have a title in Miami without the other. It's about teamwork people.

Shaq at one time was the most fearsome center in the NBA. He is living off reputation at this point. When the Detroit Pistons decided to NOT double team Shaq and stop Kobe and the rest, that's when everyone should have realized that Shaq is not T-H-E reason why teams win titles. For all the crap that people say Kobe is a ball hog, Shaq was THE GUY WHO ACTUALLY TOLD THE MEDIA, "you've got to feed the big dog the ball". Kobe never said anything like that.

Sounds like good strategy to me, seeing as the other team is NOT double teaming you and concentrating on other players. Isn't that the guy you WANT to give the ball to? Unless you want to try and score 60 points a game and show the world you're the next MJ. Then you get swept and blame it on Shaq. Or you could actually work WITH Shaq and come from behind a 0-2 deficit and actually WIN a title by WORKING TOGETHER. You're choice: Wade or Kobe.

Tickletoy, notice Jaba has come in an said his piece. notice that it sounds eerily similar to the arguments i was giving you 2 years ago. Shaq is a fraud during the last 5 years. I love the way you make silly equations too. How about these.

Shaq + Kobe = 3 titles
Shaq + Wade = 1 title

Shaq - Kobe - Wade = ZERO titles

I have always totally agreed. Neither would have titles without the other.

Kobe without Shaq = to be determined
Wade without Shaq = to be determined

To be determined?? Now that's funny. Doesn't that apply to every NBA player in the league without Shaq?? FACT is they both won WITH him and neither has won a title WITHOUT him. You do the math. How does that equate to Shaq being UNPRODUCTIVE as you claim??

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Shaq is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. When he was in LA, he was the best. He's not the sole reason they won those championships, Kobe is great also. However, at the prime of his career, Shaq was more dominant than Kobe. He isn't the same Shaq in Miami, but he was productive his first two years. D. Wade was "the man" last year but he wouldn't have won w/o Shaq. That's the reason he was brought to Miami.

 

[jaba]

Shaq is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. When he was in LA, he was the best. He's not the sole reason they won those championships, Kobe is great also. However, at the prime of his career, Shaq was more dominant than Kobe. He isn't the same Shaq in Miami, but he was productive his first two years. D. Wade was "the man" last year but he wouldn't have won w/o Shaq. That's the reason he was brought to Miami.

True.....I'll agree with most of your argument....I'll even agree that on the Lakers Shaq was more dominant than Kobe, and at 7'1" and 350 pounds, you BETTER be the most dominant player.....but Kobe is far more versatile, gifted and talented, is more competetive, and has by far a stronger work effort than Shaq......And when Shaq was on the Lakers, Shaq even admitted that he thought Kobe was the best player in the NBA......and Duane Wade says that Kobe is one of the top 5 players in the NBA.....

question......if you put Shaq on a team with Brian Cook, Sasha Vuichich (or however you spell his name) Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Shammond Williams.....

And put Kobe bryant on a team with Duane Wade, Alonzo Morning, Gary Payton, Jason Kapono and Udonis Haslim.....

on what team would you bet your paycheck?....



by the way...I read an article yesterday on Fox Sports where they listed the 5 greatest athletes currently in the world today in all of the worlds sports, and they had a list of judging criteria.....pretty interesting, of course non scientific....the rankings were :
5.Roger Federer
4.Lebron James
2.Tiger Woods (tie)
2.Kobe Bryant(tie)
1.Ladanian Tomlinson

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035


we can argue all day over this list, I'm not going to, and it would be pointless.....I just thought it was of interest......

 

[Tickle Fiend]

True.....I'll agree with most of your argument....I'll even agree that on the Lakers Shaq was more dominant than Kobe, and at 7'1" and 350 pounds, you BETTER be the most dominant player.....but Kobe is far more versatile, gifted and talented, is more competetive, and has by far a stronger work effort than Shaq......And when Shaq was on the Lakers, Shaq even admitted that he thought Kobe was the best player in the NBA......and Duane Wade says that Kobe is one of the top 5 players in the NBA.....

question......if you put Shaq on a team with Brian Cook, Sasha Vuichich (or however you spell his name) Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Shammond Williams.....

And put Kobe bryant on a team with Duane Wade, Alonzo Morning, Gary Payton, Jason Kapono and Udonis Haslim.....

on what team would you bet your paycheck?....



by the way...I read an article yesterday on Fox Sports where they listed the 5 greatest athletes currently in the world today in all of the worlds sports, and they had a list of judging criteria.....pretty interesting, of course non scientific....the rankings were :
5.Roger Federer
4.Lebron James
2.Tiger Woods (tie)
2.Kobe Bryant(tie)
1.Ladanian Tomlinson

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035


we can argue all day over this list, I'm not going to, and it would be pointless.....I just thought it was of interest......

I think that Shaq (in his prime) could have carried that team further.

 

[jaba]

I think that Shaq (in his prime) could have carried that team further.

yeah, well shaq in his prime would have had to score every point on that Laker team......

when Shaq started with the lakers, they routinely got bounced out of the Western conference playoffs......they didn't start winning until Phil Jackson blew into Los Angeles......

the current Lakers play NO defense, and they can't shoot the ball.... couldn't hit the side of a barn if they ran into it with a pick up truck.....

picking Kobe, Wade and the Heat would be a no brainer for me.......

Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls won without a dominant center....Jordan had Scotty Pippen, and other guys who knew how to rebound and play defense and shoot the ball into the basket.....

 

[Tickle Fiend]

yeah, well shaq in his prime would have had to score every point on that Laker team......

when Shaq started with the lakers, they routinely got bounced out of the Western conference playoffs......they didn't start winning until Phil Jackson blew into Los Angeles......

the current Lakers play NO defense, and they can't shoot the ball.... couldn't hit the side of a barn if they ran into it with a pick up truck.....

picking Kobe, Wade and the Heat would be a no brainer for me.......

Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls won without a dominant center....Jordan had Scotty Pippen, and other guys who knew how to rebound and play defense and shoot the ball into the basket.....

I would take Kobe and Wade too. I was just comparing what Shaq could do with the current Lakers compared to Kobe. I don't think he could carry them all the way but would've at least got them past the 1st round.

 

[jaba]

I would take Kobe and Wade too. I was just comparing what Shaq could do with the current Lakers compared to Kobe. I don't think he could carry them all the way but would've at least got them past the 1st round.

I disagree.....all they would have done is triple team Shaq (like they do Kobe), and Shaq would have to kick the ball out to one of the other laker "bricklayers", who would miss the shot, and let the other team get the rebound.......

the only difference is Shaq couldn't drop 60 points on a team from a triple team match up, and give the lakers at least a chance at a win......

 

[Tickle Fiend]

I disagree.....all they would have done is triple team Shaq (like they do Kobe), and Shaq would have to kick the ball out to one of the other laker "bricklayers", who would miss the shot, and let the other team get the rebound.......

the only difference is Shaq couldn't drop 60 points on a team from a triple team match up, and give the lakers at least a chance at a win......

But back in the day, when Shaq was Shaq, he would gotten all those players in foul trouble. No one could stop Shaq back then. Also, if that kind of attention was given to Shaq I think it would create better opportunities for the players around him, as opposed to the same situation with Kobe.

 

[tickletoy3]

question......if you put Shaq on a team with Brian Cook, Sasha Vuichich (or however you spell his name) Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Shammond Williams.....

And put Kobe bryant on a team with Duane Wade, Alonzo Morning, Gary Payton, Jason Kapono and Udonis Haslim.....
S
on what team would you bet your paycheck?....

You might be better off going with LA because the minute Wade scored 30+ plus points Kobe would cry, whine and claim he's the king of the team and no one takes the light away from him. Or even more so, he would probably try for 90 points in a game just to show the world HE runs the team, NOT Wade.

Seriously though, do you actually think Kobe's ego could survive beside Wade's? Wade knows that championships are won by TEAMWORK. Kobe watched Wade, Shaq and the TEAM in Miami win a title. I think he's figuring that out now while he and his 80+ points sat at home and thought "Damn, that's the problem. I need a TEAM."

by the way...I read an article yesterday on Fox Sports where they listed the 5 greatest athletes currently in the world today in all of the worlds sports, and they had a list of judging criteria.....pretty interesting, of course non scientific....the rankings were :
5.Roger Federer
4.Lebron James
2.Tiger Woods (tie)
2.Kobe Bryant(tie)
1.Ladanian Tomlinson

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035


we can argue all day over this list, I'm not going to, and it would be pointless.....I just thought it was of interest......

First off, the source is FOX sports. Need I say more? What was exactly the 'judging criteria'? Fan votes? Popularity? Obviously mostly an american poll with american biased results. Fewer americans watch Tennis and Golf than NFL or NBA or Woods and Federer would win hands down. Where's the most talented, most watched, most popular athlete in the WORLD? (This according to ESPN in a WORLD WIDE poll) Yes they actually check other opinions outside the US. Hint: He's not american and he plays, surprise surprise, soccer.

Answer: Ronaldhino - even the originator of this 'poll' says he should have made the top 5. If this had been an actual world wide poll, not mostly US, this so called 'poll' wouldn't even be close.

Why didn't he? Because most americans couldn't even tell you who he is. Surprise, but there is life outside of America. And while I'm on a short rant here, why do Americans call their teams 'world champions' ? Last time I looked the Cardinals, Colts or Heat never played in south america, the middle east, denmark, sweden, australia or rarely outside the US period. Yet they claim to be WORLD champions?? Go figure. You want WORLD champions? Try winning the WORLD CUP, the most watched sporting event in the WORLD (Sorry to shatter illusioned american egos but it's NOT the superbowl). And for the record it WASN'T the US that won the WORLD games in BASKETBALL OR BASEBALL either. Hmm go figure.

*climbing off my rant podium*

Sorry Prime, did not mean to semi hi-jack this thread and go off on another subject. Some things you just can't ignore.

(side note) Can you really take a guy seriously as the 'supposed' world's #1 when he whines and cries because another team "stepped on our logo" and refuses to shake their hand after a playoff loss?? Guess that's the 'wow' factor he has. HAHA. What a joke of a poll.

 

[jaba]

ok....lets do a little critical analysis of your arguments here......

You might be better off going with LA because the minute Wade scored 30+ plus points Kobe would cry, whine and claim he's the king of the team and no one takes the light away from him. Or even more so, he would probably try for 90 points in a game just to show the world HE runs the team, NOT Wade.

yeah, thats pretty much the standard argument against Kobe by those who don't like him....but obviously, even if Kobe felt that way, he wouldn't be stupid enough to make any such statements like that publically.....but your point of view in that regard is not suprising....in fact, I may be wrong, but I don't recall any disparaging things Kobe has publically said about his teammates (with the exception of blowing up at Shaq for showing up overweight and out of shape at the beginning of every season, thus making himself more prone to injury), or any other players in the NBA.....yet Shaq calls Phil Jackson a "Benedict Arnold", Shaq calls Los Angeles Laker fans "fake", Shaq publically complains about being "underpaid" in Los Angeles because the Lakers refused to give an overweight, unmotivated, injury prone center who averaged half a season of work while in L A a maximum multi year contract........... and you call Kobe a "whiner"?. ..

and Kobe is probably the only one in the league that could score 90 points against another NBA team, so I still put my money on him....

Seriously though, do you actually think Kobe's ego could survive beside Wade's? Wade knows that championships are won by TEAMWORK. Kobe watched Wade, Shaq and the TEAM in Miami win a title. I think he's figuring that out now while he and his 80+ points sat at home and thought "Damn, that's the problem. I need a TEAM."

sure Kobe has a monster ego......if I had his talent, mine would be bigger than his.....

and yep.....Kobe and his "third rate" team are sitting at home.....just like "Defending NBA Champion MVP" Duane Wade AND the "Most Dominant Center Ever" (in Shaq's own words) are "house sitting", after the Defending NBA Champion Heat got their asses SWEPT like cigarette butts on a bowling alley floor......in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs.......with THE SAME TEAM ROSTER AS THE YEAR THEY WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP.....

but I agree with you....Kobe is probably at home saying, "damn, that's the problem....I need a team".......that's the same thing Laker fans have been saying to Laker owners and management for 3 years......

oh yeah, and the year before Miami won the NBA title, Shaq, Wade and the Heat scored the lowest point total in Miami Heat history during one of their playoff games....and Shaq was the starting center for the Heat in that playoff game......so i'm kinda unclear on the point you are trying to make?

First off, the source is FOX sports. Need I say more? What was exactly the 'judging criteria'? Fan votes? Popularity? Obviously mostly an american poll with american biased results. Fewer americans watch Tennis and Golf than NFL or NBA or Woods and Federer would win hands down. Where's the most talented, most watched, most popular athlete in the WORLD? (This according to ESPN in a WORLD WIDE poll) Yes they actually check other opinions outside the US. Hint: He's not american and he plays, surprise surprise, soccer.

Answer: Ronaldhino - even the originator of this 'poll' says he should have made the top 5. If this had been an actual world wide poll, not mostly US, this so called 'poll' wouldn't even be close.

I agree with you, which is why I said in my prior post, and I REPEAT, that there's no point in arguing the issue...it's like arguing over who would win in a fight between Batman and Spiderman.....pointless.....I just cited the article because it was of interest....and I did not know that Kobe's NBA jersey is the number one seller in the U S.....and in China.....even beating Yao Ming's jersey sales....

Why didn't he? Because most americans couldn't even tell you who he is. Surprise, but there is life outside of America. And while I'm on a short rant here, why do Americans call their teams 'world champions' ? Last time I looked the Cardinals, Colts or Heat never played in south america, the middle east, denmark, sweden, australia or rarely outside the US period. Yet they claim to be WORLD champions?? Go figure. You want WORLD champions? Try winning the WORLD CUP, the most watched sporting event in the WORLD (Sorry to shatter illusioned american egos but it's NOT the superbowl). And for the record it WASN'T the US that won the WORLD games in BASKETBALL OR BASEBALL either. Hmm go figure.

*climbing off my rant podium*

I agree with your "mini rant" there......hopefully things will change......

(side note) Can you really take a guy seriously as the 'supposed' world's #1 when he whines and cries because another team "stepped on our logo" and refuses to shake their hand after a playoff loss?? Guess that's the 'wow' factor he has. HAHA. What a joke of a poll.

yeah, L T would not be my number one pick either.....maybe in the top 5, I don't know.......I think Tiger Woods would probably be my number #1 pick....I mean, Woods has shattered some golf records that have been around since the 1920's........

 

[toyou444]

by the way...I read an article yesterday on Fox Sports where they listed the 5 greatest athletes currently in the world today in all of the worlds sports, and they had a list of judging criteria.....pretty interesting, of course non scientific....the rankings were :
5.Roger Federer
4.Lebron James
2.Tiger Woods (tie)
2.Kobe Bryant(tie)
1.Ladanian Tomlinson

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035


we can argue all day over this list, I'm not going to, and it would be pointless.....I just thought it was of interest......

Well I love to be pointless!

On topic: Kobe CAN carry a team (as much as I dislike him) but he can't win a championship by himself.

Shaq can NO LONGER carry a team and he couldn't win a championship by himself either!

Off Topic: Out of that list of five guys above...which ones actually plays against another person? Bryan, James and Tomlinson. And of those which one actually has to run into the guys trying to stop him? Tomlinson.

I'm sorry, but Federer is in great shape, so is Tiger. So if the list is which guys are in the most athletic shape...maybe. If its actually what they do athleticlly? Tiger hits a ball, walks after it, and hits it again. Yes, it does it better than most...but any game that can be played by guys over 70 doesn't qualify you as been athletic.

~ toyou

 

[tickletoy3]

oh yeah, and the year before Miami won the NBA title, Shaq, Wade and the Heat scored the lowest point total in Miami Heat history during one of their playoff games....and Shaq was the starting center for the Heat in that playoff game......so i'm kinda unclear on the point you are trying to make?

Yet Shaq, Wade and Riley turned this around in ONE year?? The year before they WHAT?? WON the NBA title while Kobe was sitting at home with his 80+ points. All that in ONE year. Yet Shaq is unproductive?? One man's not going to win a title and a coach can only do so much. Shaq fits in there somewhere. That's the point I'm trying to make.

As far as being 'swept' this year.. not hard to do when your MAIN player (by Shaq's own admission WADE is da man in Miami) needs shoulder surgery and in fact, your entire starting lineup was hardly on the same court all year. Seems to me that years ago the Pistons SWEPT the Lakers when Magic had a hamstring problem. Yet Kareem still played. Same difference.

...and I did not know that Kobe's NBA jersey is the number one seller in the U S.....and in China.....even beating Yao Ming's jersey sales.

Yeh. It's amazing. But I would still rather have a jersey that says "Miami Heat NBA Champions".

yeah, L T would not be my number one pick either.....maybe in the top 5, I don't know.......I think Tiger Woods would probably be my number #1 pick....I mean, Woods has shattered some golf records that have been around since the 1920's........

Woods, Federer and Ronaldhino by far. To me LT shouldn't be even considered. At least not yet. Kobe does belong in the top 5. If Kobe would get a team with him or at least one he could get along with, the man would be awesome. I never said Kobe was a bad player. He's one of the best in the NBA today. He's finally figured out that teamwork wins titles, not scoring over 80 points a game.

 

[jaba]

interesting counterpoints.....

Yet Shaq, Wade and Riley turned this around in ONE year?? The year before they WHAT?? WON the NBA title while Kobe was sitting at home with his 80+ points. All that in ONE year. Yet Shaq is unproductive?? One man's not going to win a title and a coach can only do so much. Shaq fits in there somewhere. That's the point I'm trying to make.

yeah, but that ONE YEAR turnaround is not some impossible feat.....Phil Jackson won a NBA championship with the lakers in his first year in L A......and the Lakers REPEATED the following year, and REPEATED again for a "threepeat", something that's gonna be hard for MIAMI to do, if they keep getting swept and booted out of the playoffs in the first round.....( and by the way, what happened with Dallas this year? )

As far as being 'swept' this year.. not hard to do when your MAIN player (by Shaq's own admission WADE is da man in Miami) needs shoulder surgery and in fact, your entire starting lineup was hardly on the same court all year. Seems to me that years ago the Pistons SWEPT the Lakers when Magic had a hamstring problem. Yet Kareem still played. Same difference.

yeah, actually it IS hard for a Defending NBA Champion team with the same roster as the Championship year to get swept in the FIRST round of the Eastern conference playoffs the following year....actually, thats pretty hard to do.....

and check your history books......the Pistons swept the lakers in the NBA FINALS....and those lakers were on a 11-0 playoff run, bulldozing everybody they faced in the playoffs, until Magic Johnson, AND another starter, Byron Scott, got injured....they didn't BACK into the playoffs like this years Defending Champion Heat did, and get tossed in the first round like Shaq, D Wade and company.....

oh yeah, and I like how Heat coach Pat Reily threw the championship year coach Stan Van Gundy under the Miami team bus, and snatched the team away from him at the end to grab his coaching NBA ring.....classy move, coach Riles......

Yeh. It's amazing. But I would still rather have a jersey that says "Miami Heat NBA Champions".

yeah, well Kobe has three of those.....all in nice consecutive order....granted, fat Shaq did have something to do with that....when he was motivated.....

Woods, Federer and Ronaldhino by far. To me LT shouldn't be even considered. At least not yet.

I agree with you....actually, I would have loved to have seen what a Barry Sanders or Eric Dickerson and some other great running backs with weak offensive lines could have done with an offensive line in front of them like last years San Diego Chargers had......

Kobe does belong in the top 5. If Kobe would get a team with him or at least one he could get along with, the man would be awesome. I never said Kobe was a bad player. He's one of the best in the NBA today. He's finally figured out that teamwork wins titles, not scoring over 80 points a game.

sure Kobe has faults....... I don't know how old you are, but the same "selfish", "one man team", "ball hog" labels were also leveled at Michael Jordan, who is arguably one of the best, if not the best, to ever play the game......When Michael Jordan finally got teammates who could shoot the ball and defend, THEN Jordan became a team player....but that was after he got players around him he could trust, and Phil Jackson was always on Jordans ass to pass the ball more when he was triple teamed....... do those complaints sound familiar?

so lets see what we've got here....... ........because of various laker injuries, Kobe's starting line-up played together exactly 24 total games out of the 82 game season, and even the most vitriolic Kobe haters will admit that Kobe is the reason they made the playoffs with that "triple A farm club" team around him....

and despite all of that, the lakers STILL have ONE PLAYOFF VICTORY more than the Defending NBA Champion Heat do this season......go figure?

so when "D Man Wade" gets about two more NBA championship jerseys in his closet, then maybe I will be impressed.....and if he gets 3 in a row, then he will really get my attention......I mean, he has the same championship team, Wade was an NBA All Star, and wasn't Shaq an NBA All Star this season also, in the game that Kobe was voted All Star MVP?.....Kobe doesn't have ONE player from his championship roster playing with him now....and that's the fault of our horrible general manager, "Mich Cupcake".....

actually, thats not fair.....Wade is a spectacular player, amazing to watch, and the Heat would have had a better playoff run if he were healthy....no doubt about it......

 

[tickletoy3]

yeah, actually it IS hard for a Defending NBA Champion team with the same roster as the Championship year to get swept in the FIRST round of the Eastern conference playoffs the following year....actually, thats pretty hard to do.....

Factually yes, you have a good point. It's the first time since what? 1957? But now ask yourself this. The Bulls are defending champs. Jordan needs shoulder surgery. Pippen isn't 100% and didn't play for almost half the season and makes his return about a month before the playoffs begin. And just to make it a fair comparison, add about 5 years of being double and triple teamed and extra pounds to Dennis Rodman. In fact, age the entire team by about 3-5 years. Ok then throw in the fact the Bulls haven't played together as a team that year for over most of the season.. and now they enter the playoffs. I think you get the picture.. (and yes I expect any Miami Heat and Shaq hater to say the bulls would STILL not get swept.. but let's get real)

yeah, well Kobe has three of those.....all in nice consecutive order....granted, fat Shaq did have something to do with that....when he was motivated.....

Let's be honest. A younger, more motivated Shaq had a LOT to do with those rings. I still contend that if Kobe could have gotten along with him together they would have won as many as the Bulls by now. And as great a coach as Phil is, how hard was it to win with both Shaq and Kobe together on the same page for 3 years?

I agree with you....actually, I would have loved to have seen what a Barry Sanders or Eric Dickerson and some other great running backs with weak offensive lines could have done with an offensive line in front of them like last years San Diego Chargers had......

I've always wondered how a Walter Peyton or even Bo Jackson would have fared with the same offensive line Emmit Smith had with the Cowboys..

so when "D Man Wade" gets about two more NBA championship jerseys in his closet, then maybe I will be impressed.....and if he gets 3 in a row, then he will really get my attention......

Same here. Doubt we will see it happen though. The Heat are OLD and Shaq is hardly the Shaq of Laker years. He came to Miami with one goal. To help win a title. Mission accomplished. It's almost time for 'Snack' to call it quits. He has nothing left to prove to anybody.

If the Heat rebuild and get Wade a team around him (same as Kobe) I say the sky's the limit. Should be fun to watch.

actually, thats not fair.....Wade is a spectacular player, amazing to watch, and the Heat would have had a better playoff run if he were healthy....no doubt about it......

We totally agree here. Who do you think the Lakers should look at as far as drafting?

 

[primetime]

tickletoy, you know what i like about you? you keep things interesting even though you have no idea on what you are talking about in regards to Kobe. Everyone always say he's "selfish", he's a "ball hog", etc, but NO ONE has EVER gave me specific examples on this massive ego of Kobe. You NEVER EVER heard Kobe Bryant say "give me the ball" in the media. You NEVER heard Kobe blast his teammates in the media (except for Shaq during their last year together). YET, Shaq has ripped his teammates, coaches, cities he's played in, owners, referees, fans and the media, but Kobe is the one with the massive ego. Kobe Bryant has NEVER said "pay me" to Jerry Buss or the media. Kobe has NEVER said "you have to feed me the ball" in the media. Shaq HAS said that kind of crap his entire career. Yet, it is Kobe with the ego.

Here is something you need to think about. If Kobe Bryant only cares about scoring 90 points a game and being the NBA scoring leader and it's all about him and he can win by himself, can you PLEASE explain to me why Kobe told Mitch Kupchak and the Laker management to GET HIM SOME HELP NOW??!! Kobe wants to win. These stiffs he is surrounded by are not helping him. If he can get him a "Pippen" and some teammates that aren't afraid to shoot the ball, then the Lakers are a title team. Kobe Bryant IS a team player. His actions and his words in the media show it, but no one cares. they want to hold on to the false idea that Kobe is in it for himself.

Shaq, let me say this loud and clear, SHAQ HAD NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN' NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HEAT CHAMPIONSHIP LAST YEAR. he was a liability. go back, watch the tapes. what center made the biggest contribution against Dallas? ALONZO MOURNING. In fact, where was Shaq when the Heat ran down the clock finalizing their championship? ON THE BENCH. he wasnt on the court with Wade and Mourning. WHY? Wade HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH the Heat championship. I dont know what finals you were watching.

Also, if Shaq was so great, why on Earth are Miami people now questioning Shaq's abilities. The Lakers made the right move in granting Shaq his trade request. Shaq is done.

Now let me get to your point about "World champions". Are you kidding? think about it for a moment. The Miami Heat or any other NBA champion will beat the Holy Hell out of any international basketball team. You know why? Because the Heat were around each other for a whole damn season. USA basketball team members are a team for how long? several weeks? give me a break. If the USA sent the Heat to the world championships last year, those other countries would get beaten into a pulp. Hell, the Atlanta Hawks would beat those international teams. give me a break.

The St. Louis Cardinals would do the same. why? same reason as basketball.

The Colts. Now you have to be honest with yourself. what other country in the entire damn world could put a team together and beat the Colts? be honest. can you even name ONE country? NO. Hell, the 2-14 Oakland Raiders would beat any nation 100-0 in a football game. it aint even close, so yeah, the Colts ARE world champions. Do you really want to dispute that.

Back to basketball. Do you honestly think any of those international teams can compete in the NBA? HELL NO. one hard foul and those other countries would fold like lawn chairs. Let the Olympics play with NBA rules (basketball IS the USA's sport) and against NBA teams (who are largely made up of Americans) and you have a whole different ball game. They wouldnt stand a chance. and you damn well know it.

As for the World Cup. Yeah, Americans dont give a rat's ass about soccer. That's why i hope one day the USA would win the World Cup. Why? Just to piss off the rest of the world.

(back to topic..)

The Lakers need to make some trades. right now, ANYONE, except Kobe is trade bait. We Laker fans want a contending team now. Mitch Kupchak BETTER do something this year or the next Laker "town meeting" will be a very interesting time.

 

[tickletoy3]

Shaq, let me say this loud and clear, SHAQ HAD NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN' NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HEAT CHAMPIONSHIP LAST YEAR.

Seems Wade and myself disagree with you. But you are entitled to your biased shaq-hater opinion. Me, Im just an average fan and Wade was actually on the court with him.

In fact, where was Shaq when the Heat ran down the clock finalizing their championship? ON THE BENCH. he wasnt on the court with Wade and Mourning. WHY? Wade HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH the Heat championship. I dont know what finals you were watching.

Shaq was ON THE BENCH because he can't hit free throws. Never could. Never will. Never claimed to. When you are behind what's the first thing you are going to do? Foul the other team. Do you want your worst free throw shooter in the court??

Also, if Shaq was so great, why on Earth are Miami people now questioning Shaq's abilities. The Lakers made the right move in granting Shaq his trade request. Shaq is done.

those so called "miami people" are FANS and eager reporters who want press. Ask yourself this: What has WADE said about Shaq? The main reason Miami won the title has said NOTHING. Then again he WORKED WITH SHAQ and came back from a 0-2 deficit. Something Kobe couldn't figure out how to do.

Now let me get to your point about "World champions". Are you kidding? think about it for a moment. The Miami Heat or any other NBA champion will beat the Holy Hell out of any international basketball team. You know why? Because the Heat were around each other for a whole damn season. USA basketball team members are a team for how long? several weeks? give me a break.

We're not talking about the Heat or any other NBA champions. We're talking about the USA putting their BEST players available against a little international squad who did the same, playing on the SAME COURT under the SAME RULES. They basically played an international all star game and team "holier than thou" USA LOST. King James, Coach K and every other greater than thou ego driven NBA player couldn't even beat a smalltime international team. Tsk. Tsk. Come to think of it, when was the last time Team USA won it all?? Jordan years? Geez. But hey they get paid well, right?

If the USA sent the Heat to the world championships last year, those other countries would get beaten into a pulp. Hell, the Atlanta Hawks would beat those international teams. give me a break.

Again, We're not talking about the Heat, the Hawks or any other NBA team, we're talking about a bunch of money hungry, ego driven all stars on the same team. We're talking about the USA putting their BEST players available against an international squad who did the same, playing on the SAME COURT under the SAME RULES. At least Team USA had current passports.

The St. Louis Cardinals would do the same. why? same reason as basketball.

Hmm.. where DID USA finish in the world games?? Again, we're not talking about teams here, we're talking about the BEST PLAYERS AVAILABLE together on a single team. Same as Japan, Korea, etc.

The Colts. Now you have to be honest with yourself. what other country in the entire damn world could put a team together and beat the Colts? be honest. can you even name ONE country? NO. Hell, the 2-14 Oakland Raiders would beat any nation 100-0 in a football game. it aint even close, so yeah, the Colts ARE world champions. Do you really want to dispute that.

That one I will give you. The colts are WORLD champions by DEFAULT. That's why they call it "American" football. To the rest of the world, football is called SOCCER. Australia could have the same argument. Who is the world champion in Rugby League? Cricket? Yes. It's called DEFAULT.

Back to basketball. Do you honestly think any of those international teams can compete in the NBA? HELL NO. one hard foul and those other countries would fold like lawn chairs. Let the Olympics play with NBA rules (basketball IS the USA's sport) and against NBA teams (who are largely made up of Americans) and you have a whole different ball game. They wouldnt stand a chance. and you damn well know it.

Again, another silly point with no real value. You're saying 'let this happen' and 'let that happen' when truth is.. it's not going to happen. Given the set rules and conditions, the USA puts their best players available (yes they are even decided by USA) against the best players from other countries. Again, when was the last time the 'heavily favored' USA won?

As for the World Cup. Yeah, Americans dont give a rat's ass about soccer. That's why i hope one day the USA would win the World Cup. Why? Just to piss off the rest of the world.

You DO realize the world cup is the MOST WATCHED event in the entire world don't you? The american football viewers numbers do not even come close. And as I'm sure you've read in my prior posts, according to ESPN the most watched, most recognized and widely regarded as the best athlete in the entire world is.. Ronaldinho.
Most of the ignorant free sports world wouldn't recognize him (and yes I'm mainly guessing this would be the US from your own admissions that they 'don't give a rat's ass about soccer'.) but strangely enough the REST OF THE ENTIRE WORLD does.
Who is Ronaldinho? Try putting Wood's golfing ability, Federer's tennis ability and Kobe's hoops ability and wrap them all up in a 'soccer ability' and you have Ronaldinho. The man is a sports legend. WORLDWIDE sports legend.

(back to topic..)

The Lakers need to make some trades. right now, ANYONE, except Kobe is trade bait. We Laker fans want a contending team now. Mitch Kupchak BETTER do something this year or the next Laker "town meeting" will be a very interesting time.

They will. Give it time my friend and the Lakers will be a force again.

 

[jaba]

Factually yes, you have a good point. It's the first time since what? 1957? But now ask yourself this. The Bulls are defending champs. Jordan needs shoulder surgery. Pippen isn't 100% and didn't play for almost half the season and makes his return about a month before the playoffs begin. And just to make it a fair comparison, add about 5 years of being double and triple teamed and extra pounds to Dennis Rodman. In fact, age the entire team by about 3-5 years. Ok then throw in the fact the Bulls haven't played together as a team that year for over most of the season.. and now they enter the playoffs. I think you get the picture.. (and yes I expect any Miami Heat and Shaq hater to say the bulls would STILL not get swept.. but let's get real)

Ha ha, that team's injury scenario sounds like the lakers last season.....

You know, who really knows what would have happened in that scenario?.....maybe a sweep, maybe not.....

But one comparison I am prepared to make betweem Kobe and Jordan is they are about the only two players I have actually seen get a certain look in their eye when they REALLY want to play ball.....its kinda hard to describe that look, but its almost like they would just as soon rip the heart out of the chest of their opponent, as play basketball against them....an absolute killer instinct in the eyes that say, "you bring anybody you got on your team, your best player and two of his buddies , and I will still drain a 3 pointer on all of your asses from anywhere on the court......don't matter if there's only one second left in the game, this shot is going into the basket. And there aint nothing anybody in the NBA can do to stop me".....

I've seen that look with Jordan and Kobe, but not with many others......Wade wins by just pure superior talent, he's just a better, more athletically talented player than most others....... Shaq succeeds by pure brute strenth and a nice shooting touch around the basket....but every time I have gone to a game and seen Kobe play, he does something that makes me shake my head and say, "man, I can't believe what I just saw"........he's frustrating to watch when he tries to do too much by himself and gets into trouble, but he's the most amazing basketball player I have seen in person......

And did you know that at his current age, Kobe has played 25 percent more basketball games than Jordan did at the same age? Because of all the playoffs and championship post season basketball in the 12 years that Kobe has played, he has a LOT of mileage on his body at this point in his carreer......he can't keep it up too much longer...the age and game mileage will catch up to him, and he may decline quickly when it does.....I give him only about three more really productive years, at the most......but he's a joy to watch when he's on his game...

Let's be honest. A younger, more motivated Shaq had a LOT to do with those rings. I still contend that if Kobe could have gotten along with him together they would have won as many as the Bulls by now. And as great a coach as Phil is, how hard was it to win with both Shaq and Kobe together on the same page for 3 years?

Yeah, I agree with you.....maybe not as many as the Jordan Bulls, but they would have won a few more, no doubt....heck, when Karl Malone and Gary Payton joined the team, the lakers blasted out of the gates with an 18-3 record....then Malone got hurt, some other things happened, and the wheels kinda fell off the bus from there......but they still made it to the NBA finals, where they lost to the Pistons....

I've always wondered how a Walter Peyton or even Bo Jackson would have fared with the same offensive line Emmit Smith had with the Cowboys..

Oh man........stopping Bo Jackson behind that Dallas Cowboy offensive line? I would MUCH prefer trying to stop a freight train rolling down hill.....with my bare hands, ha ha!........just ask Brian Bosworth, the defensive player who tried to stop Bo Jackson from scoring, and Bo carried him into the end zone with him...and the football, ha ha.....

Did you know that Bo Jackson ran a 9.5 hundred yard dash, and was a 7 foot high jumper?.......that guy was an athletic miracle.......

And I have similar love for "Sweetness", Walter Peyton......rest in peace......

But I'm kinda ambivalent about Emmit Smith....he was a very good back, don't get me wrong, but I think even "I" could get some good NFL yardage behind that Dallas Cowboy "cinder block wall" of an offensive line.......any decent NFL running back would have had pretty good yardage numbers behind that Dallas Cowboy offensive unit....they made holes you could drive an 18 wheel semi truck through......

Same here. Doubt we will see it happen though. The Heat are OLD and Shaq is hardly the Shaq of Laker years. He came to Miami with one goal. To help win a title. Mission accomplished. It's almost time for 'Snack' to call it quits. He has nothing left to prove to anybody.

I agree.....Shaq rips on the laker fans, and we rip back at him, but in his prime he was unstoppable, and Shaq and Kobe were absolutely deadly together......Kobe was a fast rising superstar, and Shaq was hungry for NBA rings.....and all the REALLY "fake" laker fans packed the Staples Center.....all the hollywood stars..Jack Nicholson is the only true star true laker fan, in my opinion.....

If the Heat rebuild and get Wade a team around him (same as Kobe) I say the sky's the limit. Should be fun to watch.

No doubt about it.....Wade and Carmelo Anthony and Lebron James are the NBA future.....Wade got the first ring from that bunch, and he will get more if the Miami Heat management do the right things and select the right players.....no doubt....

We totally agree here. Who do you think the Lakers should look at as far as drafting?

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter who they draft, the lakers may be in dire trouble for a few years.....they are over the salary cap, and they are still paying BIG money to former laker players who have been traded to other teams...

And part of the problem is the youth and inexperience of the team as a whole, and some players just don't have that competetive fire like Kobe.....adding a young player from the draft will only magnify the youth and inexperience issue....the lakers started the season with promise, a 26-5 record, but soon the youth and inexperience began to show as all the other experienced teams began to gel and play together....injuries to key laker starters also added to the problem.....

The Lakers have to get very luck very soon, or they will be in trouble, and may be in BIG trouble within a few years.......

Best case scenario, we get someone like Kevin Garnett, and the lakers start seriously contending for rings again....but the Lakers are already over the salary cap, and owner Jerry Buss is not known as a big spender, like owner Mark Cuban of Dallas.....he was practically forced to rehire Phil Jackson at 10 million a year, or risk a lot of empty basketball seats in the arena, and the lakers have the highest ticket prices in the NBA.....

Worse case scenario, lakers keep losing, Kobe opts out of his laker contract, and plays somewhere else, and you will hear crickets chirping in Staples Center in L A....

Center Andrew Bynum is young and shows flashes of brilliance, but lakers don't have any really attractive trade bait to attract any quality players in trade.....

So next year will be interesting for the lakers.....everybody is talking blockbuster moves, but we have no money, little trade bait and no leverage, so it could get ugly before it gets better....

Good "sparring" with you, TT3.....you know your sports, especially international sports....and I agree, a sports poll should be world wide......

I remember a "poll" where they were pondering the best athlete of all time....they used your recommended criteria: find a sport that the "whole world" plays, and decide on the best athlete in that sport......

They determined that the world sport was soccer, and made a compelling case for "Pele" as the greatest athlete of all time.....I thought that was interesting, what's your take? And how does the Miami situation look for the future?....

 

[tickletoy3]

Good "sparring" with you, TT3.....you know your sports, especially international sports....and I agree, a sports poll should be world wide......

Many thanks my friend. Back at you and feel free to zip me a pm anytime to talk sports or anything you like.

I remember a "poll" where they were pondering the best athlete of all time....they used your recommended criteria: find a sport that the "whole world" plays, and decide on the best athlete in that sport......

They determined that the world sport was soccer, and made a compelling case for "Pele" as the greatest athlete of all time.....I thought that was interesting, what's your take? And how does the Miami situation look for the future?....

No doubt Pele would be heavily considered for the 'greatest of all time.'. The man was incredible to watch on the soccer field. The Heat will be ok for a while. But yes, definite changes are in order. You don't get your butts handed to you in the first round (and the injury excuse can only carry so far) without making major adjustments. Time will tell my friend.

My pick at the beginning of the season was San Antonio to win it all. We'll see. Phoenix won't go quietly.

 

[jaba]

Many thanks my friend. Back at you and feel free to zip me a pm anytime to talk sports or anything you like.



My pick at the beginning of the season was San Antonio to win it all. We'll see. Phoenix won't go quietly.

I don't know, buddy.....Detroit was the last team to hand my lakers their asses in the NBA finals, and I have always liked their defensive emphasis, although I would never have traded Big Ben Wallace, who is my favorite NBA defensive player.....

I think I like the Pistons........time will tell.....

 

[primetime]

tickle toy, are you serious? man, i love debating with you. you always provide the silliest responses. did you watch the NBA Finals last year? Or are you making stuff up as you go along? Shaq was a non factor in the finals. In fact, in the series clinching win, Shaq had 9 points. In the last few minutes of the game, hell all of the last few minutes of the whole 4 game wins the Heat had, who played the critical minutes? Alonzo Mourning. How can Shaq be a factor if he isnt playing in clutch time? Can you explain that? I know you can't, but it sure will be fun watching you try. In fact, it was actually nice to see you say that Shaq was in fact a liability. Remember, he cant hit free throws and you in your own words say you dont want your worst free throw shooter out there in crunch time. So, tell me. How was Shaq a factor in the NBA Finals last year? Give it up man, you KNOW i am right.

You get funnier by the post. You said Wade WORKED with Shaq to overcome a deficit and win a title and Kobe couldnt figure that out. You know why this sounds ridiculous? Wade has played with Shaq for 3 years. Kobe played with Shaq for 8 years. Kobe has three championships "working" with Shaq. In fact, Kobe saved Shaq's ass in every San Antonio Spurs series they had. Do you or do you not remember Shaq saying Kobe is the greatest player in the game after they vanquished the Spurs in ruthless fashion in the 2001 campaign? Did you or did you not hear Kobe say Shaq is the most dominant player in the game? Did you or did you not hear Kobe say he "could play with Shaq forever"? You didnt, i did and millions of Laker fans did. you have no idea what went down in LA, so that's why Laker fans giggle at your Shaq defense. Man, does Shaq ever have you fooled. Now Miami fans are seeing what LA fans saw. a fat, overpaid, unmotivated guy who blames everyone for his playoff failures. Bottom line, without a Kobe or a Dwyane Wade, Shaq NEVER gets a ring. You cant say vice versa yet, because Wade and Kobe have more years left than Shaq. That has yet to be seen. Only when Kobe or Wade retires can your point be truly valid.

about international games. Man, what propaganda is your country feeding you about USA basketball? Team USA DID NOT have ALL of it's best players. Kobe didnt play remember? besides, i am not aware of how other countries do it, but are their international team made up of All-stars or guys who actually play with each other a lot more? Tell me how it works in Australia. How is their team put together. Team USA's players do not play with each other long enough and you know as well as i know that a team needs to be with each other long enough to be a cohesive unit. besides, the Olympics are about sending your country's best TEAM, not necessarily All-star rosters.

It's funny listening to these other countries gloat over recent American failures in the World games. Correct me if i am wrong, but in the history of international play, does Team USA have a winning record against all the Worlds teams? I mean, go back in the history of international play, is the record of Team USA a winning record, or is it an average record? Hell, is it a DOMINATING record? Has Team USA, in the decades length of time, have let's say even 10 losses? Yeah, other countries need to shut their traps, pray we never send a franchise AND play by NBA rules. International rules were put together because the rest of the world has no idea on how to "man up" and play REAL basketball. Send the Argentines or Croatians or whoever and have them play a FULL NBA season and let's see how well they fare. Yeah, they would get their asses handed to them in a handbasket and sent on their way.

The way Team USA is handling the Olympics now is better. they now will have the same roster for several years. Cohesiveness will build and now those silly countries have to stop our best player. His name? Kobe Bryant. Good luck.

as for the World Cup. fine, the rest of the world can have that. this country could care less what happens in the World Cup. enjoy your "futbol" and be happy that you are beating a USA team that no one in the USA really cares about. Which is why the WORST nightmare for the rest of the world is for Team USA to win the World Cup. Wouldnt that be a hoot? Seeing the rest of the world pissed off over that would make my day....

Again, if you feel the Colts shouldnt call themselves "World Champs", feel free to get the rest of the world organized football teams and put on the pads and we will see what happens. If you say it's called "American" football and we are World Champions by default, why should you even care? Like you mentioned, if some cricket team won something and call themselves world champs even if they didnt play any other country, do you think i or any other American would care? Other countries only care when Americans call themselves "world champs" because they know we ARE the best.

Remember, before we werent allowed to send professionals to the Olympics, but other countries sent theirs. The rest of the world has been trying to catch up to the USA for so damn long, they had to conjure handicaps to help themselves. Basketball was invented by the USA, but yet, the game is played by non-USA rules in the Olympics. What if the USA was allowed to come up with it's own rules for the World Cup and everyone had to play with those rules? You other countries would be pissed. Be real men (or women), play our style of basketball and then we will see just how good those other countries are....hahahahahahaha.

(sometimes, it is fun to be the "ugly" sports American...hahahahahaha)