White Men...The New Minority?

[Dave2112]

First off, let me start by saying that this is no way a slam against any race, creed or gender, but merely an observation of the state of our society.

As white men, I feel that we find ourselves as the new minority, perhaps not in numbers, but in services, respect and the way we are viewed by society in general. There are women’s support groups, gay rights coalitions, black support communities, the Anti-Defamation league…meanwhile, white American men are left to fend for themselves.

It’s as if we are the original template against which all other people are measured. Their rights and privileges, both legal and societal, are based on what they feel we “have.” Let’s look at the comparisons.

I was at work, where I am one of three men on the day-shift. The 15 or so women who make up the rest of the shift thought it would be fun to put up a huge poster of a near-naked man, sprawled on his back, legs spread…with the caption “The Only Thing a Man is Good For.” Long story short, my co-worker and I were told that the “girls were just having some fun.” It took two days and a lot of grumbling from the ladies (two of which are my supervisors), to get it removed.

Now here’s my point. I really didn’t mind the poster, although it was rather crass. I have a good sense of humor and it wasn’t that big a deal. BUT…had the situations and genders been reversed, had I put up a poster of a naked woman with a similar caption, and if ONE woman had complained…my boss would have been required by law to reprimand me at the very least. Keep in mind that my place of business is one where a man got fired for calling a female co-worker “Honey”. That’s it. I can’t count the number of times that a young attractive man I work with has been called “Sweetcheeks”, “Stud” and numerous other names by the ladies of our place, again this includes supervisors. Take it to a higher authority, you say? My personnel manager?…a self-confessed man-hater. My Office Manager? Another woman.

What really makes this irritating is that in 1988, I worked in a factory with 50 guys and three women. Many of the men had posters like that up in their areas, and treated the ladies like sex-objects. I was one of the few guys that stood up for them when it became a legal issue.

I got the crap kicked out of me for my troubles. So, having been one of the few men who helped pave the way for the rights women now have, the laws that pretty much keep you from looking at one cross-eyed, I get the same treatment in return. Even in this very Forum, there was an instance of this. A joke was made about “Men have as much chance of properly tickling someone as they do of giving birth.” It was a joke, I know, and I took no offense at it. None at all. The point is, though, that if the joke were “A woman has as much chance of knowing how to tickle someone as getting kicked in the balls”, the post would have been looked upon with disdain, and may even have been pulled if someone complained about it.

Society and the media have gotten us used to this sort of thing. How many TV shows do you see where the husband is the bumbling idiot and the wife has to hold the family together? Would the Simpsons even still be on if Marge were as dumb as Homer, and Homer was the one solving all the problems? You have to be so careful not to portray women as sex-objects or victims in advertising, but men are pretty much fair game. There is a current series of commercials for some product I can’t remember where there are three or more guys sitting around and start getting bored and doing dumb shit like sticking things up their noses and such. The catch phrase is “Men…never leave them to their own devices.” Try this ad campaign with women and see what happens. Instant lawsuit.

And that’s really the point of this whole thing. Everyone but us has someone to defend them. We have the “Image Awards”, where you HAVE to be black to be considered. Just try having the “White Guy” awards where only whites will be considered, and you’ll be crucified. Yes, I know what you’ll say. Ethnic groups honoring their own. I have no problem with that. But WE can’t do that. All of the rights that ethnic and gender based groups fought (and sometimes died) for, are now being used to throw a legal blanket over almost every action. Ever see a black comedian get laughs when he goes into his (now standard) “White guys talk like this” routine? And I’m not even getting into the things we can’t call people that they can call themselves. I guess it’s a case of “good stereotyping” and “bad stereotyping”? I’m confused.

I had to learn to understand Spanish just to get by living in L.A. The guy selling me a burrito didn’t have to learn to speak English to sell it to me, I had to know Spanish in order to buy one. I can be called a “typical man”, a “moron” and a “walking penis”, but I can’t call a woman “Sweetie” without getting a call from a law firm.

So let’s get a few things straight. For the most part, men are NOT thinking with their dicks every time they have to make a decision. We don’t slobber over every woman we see. We aren’t stupid just by our very nature. We are not “The Man”, and we are NOT, for the last time, NOT in charge of holding down every group who feels oppressed.

As I wrap this up, please understand that I am not a misogynist or a racist. You know me, and I believe in fairness to everyone, regardless of race, creed, color or gender. I only ask that this apply to the “template” as well. I have been a supporter of women’s rights. I marched in the protest on the side of equality during the Rodney King trial. I was against the cover-up. I’ve been knocked down, both physically and emotionally many times in my life for standing up for those I felt were wrongly oppressed. So please don’t find some small quote here to take out of context to label me in any way. I don’t blame the individual peoples mentioned here, but society in general for making this sort of “male-bashing” not only acceptable, but profitable.

Finally, I invite any and all intelligent responses to this thread, but let's not turn this into a further thickening of the wall, ok? That's not the point here. This isn't an "us against them" sort of thing. If that's what you get out of it, then you're missing the point. It's about fairness, plain and simple, and how White Men have become the New Minority. It's not any one group's fault, and we are perhaps as much to blame as anyone.

Like many white men, many more than you’d realize, I’ve stuck my neck out for the cause of equal treatment.

Please don’t chop it off, ok?

 

[qjakal]

Validity..

Some valid points Dave, there is a backlash rampant currently, and some of it is long overdue. The problem is that there are 8 guys that ARE like the stereotype for every one that isn't, and in some areas the % is probably even worse. I ran into the reverse discrimination problem at Pepsi-Co a few times, but I stood my ground and demanded a hearing with full blown attendance and witnesses and the entire circus, confident in the fact that when you have a group dynamic, the truth in general comes out...eventually, as it did for me with this wacko. She was transferred, demoted and out of my hair, but it IS an incredible hassle and can be overwhelming at times proving you AREN'T guilty, which seems to be a standard practice now. You should file paperwork as it is appropriate Dave, because someday when it all comes down to the end, it will greatly benefit you to have any documents like this to present. Keep in mind that at some point you have the right to involve outside agencies that have no "viewpoint" to speak of, and they will be concerned solely with this kind of record keeping. You accept the double standard at work at your own peril though...bitch and kick about it the same way you would any other injustice, or you'll have only yourself to blame. As for your food vendor, you have the right to NOT buy from him, and if enough people did the same, I guarantee he'd be habloing ingles muy pronto! All you can do is what you can do....good points overall. Q

 

[Shaggy]

Dave, what you said made me think of "The Man Show" on comedy central. Most people dont think twice about what that show is saying beneath it's carefree image.

 

[shark]

Dave,you're not saying that reverse discrimination actually exists are
you?Ask any political correctness expert...only they can decide what is discrimination and anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

 

[primetime]

hey Dave, i feel you man. i know you're a good guy, but i learned over my years that society is a pretty crazy place. i am a african-american, or black, or colored, or whatever they call it now male. i can understand why these "groups" were formed and yes, it does seem like the white male is a minority. but, i think the reason is because of world history, escpecially in this country. it was the white male who kicked the "Native Americans" off their land, enslaved Africans, and put the Japanese in camps. it is the white male who is still in power in this country. all 43 Presidents are white, all the vice presidents are white, and the vast majority of CEO's are white. what does this all mean? nothing really, but i think the perception of the "minority" groups is that the white male is still the majority. is it fair that a qualified white male is passed over for an unqualified person of color? of course not, but it goes back to the days of why blacks or other groups never could hold those positions because of the bigotry of a "few white males".

i'm not even going to go into the whole affirmitave action thing, because there is two sides to it. personally for me, i see no color. a man is a man, a woman is a woman, a human being is a human being. whether you are white, black, green, purple, orange and any color, EVERYONE should treat each other with respect. and yes there is some contradictions. i love black comedians, and i do notice that they crack jokes on white people. i will admit, i laugh my ass off, but they also crack jokes on every race as well. but i do find it peculiar that white comedians arent "allowed" to make the same kind of jokes. it has to do with that whole "past" thing with the United States. personally, i wish there was no color. just because someone is of a certain race, doesnt mean that person is of no less value than someone else. i always tell people, i am better than no man, and no man is better than me. i have a right to live, like they do. the whole "man is created equal" thing is my motto. unfortunately, there arent enough people like me or you on this planet. sad......

as for the "woman" thing, same thing. for milleniums, males have abused women. so now women are getting their just do. is some of the stuff they do fair? hell no. sexual harrassment is a crazy thing. everyone is quick to believe if a woman is "harrassed", but if a male does it? everyone, including males, just laugh about it. same with domestic violence. it occurs, but if the male is a victim, he is ridiculed. i have no idea why it is like this. its the way of the world. life isnt fair. i too have been ridiculed for "defending" the white man, women, or any other group. i have friends of all colors. they are not my friends because of their color, but how they are as a person.

i'm with you Dave, it isnt fair. no matter which way you look at it, somebody will not be happy. much is the way of the world. just keep chugging along and let all the dumbasses of this planet be just that, dumbasses. keep fighting for what you believe in. you are a good human being for even realizing the contradictions. a lot of people dont. you have good insight, you're not ignorant like some people who uses race as an advantage or disadvantage. it will only be when EVERYONE realizes how stupid it all is, this issue will finally be put to rest.

 

[kurchatovium]

I agree with you 100% absolutely Dave. I would also like to disagree with qjakal's statement that for every one man that isn't like the sterotype there are eight that are. I find this statement to be part of the problem. Mostly 90% or so of men are not like the sterotype that are portrayed by TV or the media in general. The fact that men even think this is true is a reflection of how the media has destroyed the image of men over the years. Heck the last TV show I remember where a man was given a brain was "The Bob Newhart Show".

I would also like to add that I nor any of my relatives going back as far as I can keep track of had anything to do with enslaving any blacks, oppressing any Native Americans, or placing any Asian americans in interment camps. Nor have I or any of my relatives abused any women. So please don't lay that guilt trip on my doorstep because I ain't buying it. Also don't give me the white male is getting his just do crap for all the abuse he has dished out. No race or gender is without any blood on their hands. Everyone from every culture has done things they should not be proud of if you go back in history far enough. Heck I feel the term White person is an insult from the start. It lumps everyone from Western Europe, Eastern Europe and some Arab countries as well into one category. If your skin is light and you are doing alright then you must be white. It same thing with Asian americans. Asian is a term used to lump everyone from Vietnam, China, Japan, Taiwan, Laos, and several other countries into one big category. Its the 21st century people and we still can't figure this crap out. Jeesh how depressing.

I am getting off the soapbox now hopefully I have not offended anyone. I just wish people could get along better and leave all the petty little differences behind.

 

[NYCity]

I thought everyone has made very good points here.

Dave, regarding the poster that was put up by the women where you work. FYI, your boss WAS required by law to take the same action as if the gender roles were reversed. I hear your point though. In actual practice, it doesn't happen that way. Part of the reason is, eithe rthe man is not offended or, even if the man is offended, he is reluctant to say anything for fear of ridicule.

I also get called, dear, sweetie, et al, but am very careful never to use it back. Why? For the same reasons. It doesn't offend me in the least, but I'm not willing to risk my career for the sake of saying it back.

 

[Nebula45]

Everyone is quick to mention African slavery, the diaspora of the Native Americans, and the internment of the Japanese, but what about the abundance of European immigrants around the turn of the century? They were intentionally kept down, especially the Irish Catholics. It was easy to keep the Italians, the Poles, and the other non-English speaking immigrants down using the obvious language barrier but the Irish already spoke the language. The already established people were afraid of the Irish beacuse they couldn't keep them down, so they used out right descrimination. ::No Irish:: signs were common in shop windows. So, they left the Irish to some of the most dangerous jobs, such as fire fighters and police officers.

This is my 2cents and I don't know exactly what this is contributing to the disscussion, but something in the disscussion above sparked this tyraid and maybe some might find it informing and thought provoking, others might not. Just the musings of a 'wee Irish lad.

 

[Slappy McGee]

word up, Dave, you are the man.

 

[Krokus]

Yea

I Agree Dave

 

[JoBelle]

OK, so I'll be the first chick to talk.

Yes, I called myself a chick.

Dave, I have to say you're right on!

I live in the deep south where the redneck mentality still exists. Where "good ole boy politics" is the way things are done. If you go huntin' and kill something with the boss, you're next in line. Now, of course that is an exaggeration, but I know for a fact that it's more prevalent than most would comfortably admit. This is the last strong hold of the "white man." I have watched my white male friends be almost embarrassed to act jubilantly over something with other white males friends if there are women and/or other races present. It's a fear of being labled as the next KKK in town. You get that or you're labled with "Frat Boy." It's a damnable shame.

You see, I was raised by a male chauvenist pig. **Whom I love dearly, mind you** My dad was old school...but something happened when he realized his daughter was going to have to compete intellectually with men like him. He taught me his preference....women are moms and wives...but also blatantly told me to "Kick a man's ass if need be to get where I wanted to go." Now how's THAT? Times they are a changin'???

I wonder at times whether it is the natural flow of a society to take down the leader...be they royalty or race or even gender. We'll only know after another culture has uprooted us and built their homes on top of ours.

I think most would assume that white men don't need to give themselves recognition due to the overwhelming evidence that they are a powerful group within the culture. I, however, think if they don't give themselves some credit now and then, they will become the most ashamed and insecure when they've no reason to be. Given the doors that are open to most now, that is.

$.02
Jo

 

[kyle]

Nebula you are right. Irish were discriminated because of their religion and social status. No one wanted them.

Dave, you made an excellent point. I also agree with Primetime that I don't look at color or ethnic background, we're all people. Unfortunaltly slavery and Westward expansion were not our countries best moments. Although we would be nothing like we are today without it. Remember we began to emerge as a military power after the Civil War. What's going on right now makes sense, it's like a backlash. Our country won't get back on track until people like Jessie Jackson or groups like NOW begin to rationalize their thoughts.