This thread could become ugly. Can we try to be adults and be civil?

Why is it that if a female is open about liking the sexual side of tickling, she becomes labled a slut and respect for her as a person goes out the window? I have seen it over and over on the internet and especially here.

Jen

Sex and tickling

I wouldn't place too much importance on that, Jen. Some people (males AND females) have a somewhat disturbed attitude towards sexuality. Some deny their own sexual feelings, some prefer to throw mud at those people who can speak openly about them. And some people simply can't understand why other people see tickling as something sexual.

Quite often, those holier-than-thou fans of puritanic tickling (or any other fetish) were brought up to see sex as something dirty, something that nobody (least of all women) should enjoy; it should be seen as a sin (or abnormal behaviour, perversity, or whatever) and make you guilty.

Just ignore those people, they are not worth your attention, Jen. They're a case for a professional therapist (I'm only talking about those mudslingers!).

😀 I don't have a negative attitude toward "my kind of women" (he he he). I like to think I am one of many who feel the same in our tickling fetish circle or in the general population. 😀 😉 😎 😛

Jen, I've quite honestly never seen this happen on any tickling forum I've participated in. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite for the most part. That is to say, I've seen people that claim to enjoy tickling outside of a sexual context are often jeered and ridiculed as denying the "real" reason for their interest.

I feel that I somehow fall into this category as you describe drew. But what does "real" mean? I don't mean to warp the topic, which I'll get to in a moment, but for me, there is no pretext for my views.

Haltickling also said something which I could possibly fall under and be placed in by the people here. Being that I was raised to believe sex is immoral and all that hooey or something. Well, I wasn't raised that way, and sex is just fine, its when its cheapened in any number of ways that I feel its wrong. As far as throwing mud, which I'm sure people think I have, I've only brought up things, but never really assaulted anyone for them. As far as thinking I'm holier-than-thou, well, I don't know (are you religious or close to God? If not, maybe I am holier-than-thou 😀 LOL). But as far as this idea that I think I'm somehow better than everyone else, thats just crazy talk. I just have strong views, and it doesn't help I'm in the minority here. Professional therapist? Theres nothing wrong with me, and if thats the way its going to be, we all need therapists.

Now, I do realize the above was not directed at me specfically (or maybe it was, I don't know. Obbjob couldn't have been the only one to read that thread). So pay these side comments no mind if you wish. I just felt it was important to clear those things up.


Now, the topic.

To answer your question njjen, its always been a double standard for women and men. A man can get away with almost anything and even recieve praise for his actions (such as being a player or a womanizer). A woman on the other hand is like you said, a slut, a *****, a floozy, a tramp, a tart, and every other leud term sometimes ill placed on women, especially placed on women of today's society who are more active, more equal, and more involved in making the world go round.

Anything pertaining to sex, a woman can be called up on. A man on the other hand, is not. He is almost immune and unaccountable for his own actions. I'm sure you and everyone else here already know that for yourselves, but I can't think of any other reason for people to think like that or give women a bad rap for it. Some people use prostitution as an excuse, or take a real slut and use her to judge the majority. Life has just not been fair for women since it started. You've always had subordinate status forced on you and anything thats really our fault (as men) can be put on you. Sure, your not innocent, but you aren't filthy (except for those working the street corners. But then again, some men do that too, and I'm sure some of those prostitutes are not in it by choice. Whether that be because of a pimp or a lack of education or experience in the business world to fall back on. For most of them I'd wager its about survival.)

Its sick, and I don't agree with it. Its not right that women have the finger pointed at them so easily and yet the man can be pat on the back and given a cigar to smoke with his buddies.


- Damien

Great responses so far. Keep em coming, please.

Drew, you may not see this outwardly on posts, but it does happen in private e-mail and IM. Guys hear a woman talk about tickling as sexual, or post pics, etc. and they become targets for some of the most vile propositions or get treated like an object.

I admit that I do equate tickling and sex. It is a sexual turn-on for me. That does not mean I am a slut, cheap, easy. It means that the guy who treats me with respect and wins my heart will never complain again about not getting enough. LOL

I put myself out there in many ways. I post here about a variety of topics, including my tickling desires and styles. Why? Because Prince Charming is not going to appear at my front door if I sit home and sing, "Some Day My Prince Will Come". That only happens in fairy tales and real life is not a fairy tale.

Celtic_Emperor,
No. This thread was not directed at you, but I will say that ticklemmmeeeeeee's thread about closing her groups did inspire me to post this. It is a shame that a female cannot share tickling media with the community and just be thanked for her efforts.


I wonder if Jeff, TIB and the other guys here with sites, get inappropriately hit on constantly by women because of their contributions to the community. I seriously doubt it.

Well put on all counts. And no, don't worry, I knew you didn't mean me. I was refering to those two. And even then it only seemed that way because coincidentally ticklmmmeeeeee's thread contained such talk or something like it.

I just want to put up a barrier first, thats all. 😀


Well, to answer your last comment, I don't really get hit on, and I wouldn't want to be. I have a girlfriend. But I have become more popular with the ladies, that cannot be denied. But then again, I can attribute this online following I've gained to my artwork and not necessarily me. Although ticklemmmeeeeeee greatly expresses her care and liking for me as a person.


- Damien

Damian, I wasn't addressing people like you. I was solely addressing those who sling mud on others on the basis of their sexual feelings (or lack of it). I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, I certainly didn't mean to.

No, you didn't offend me. Thats why I didn't assume anything, only that you COULD have meant me. I didn't feel you did anyways, which is why I used the term "coincidence" also.

I agree, and feel the same as you do. People have no right to sling mud, $hit, or any other handy projectile at other people. While I disagree with some of the sexual things, and the fact its so public rather than private, even I don't damn people (which I couldn't do anyway) for wanting something else.

So again, you didn't offend me, and thank you for handling this tactfully. It had class.


- Damien

I, personally, see tickling as being something for everyone. If someone gets turned on by it, that's cool for them. If someone just sees it as something fun and cute, that's cool too. As long as people don't try to force their own ideas on others, it is just fine.

As to mud-slinging, I can't respect people that do that. I am always very careful to make sure that all of my comments are either supportive, or constructive critism. I would rather not post at all rather than offend someone, and I cannot condone the people who do.

PS, very interesting and well-thought out thread.

Agreed. To each his own. Be what you truely are, but never force your views on another.

Well said. There's often a problem in the TMF and elsewhere of people insisting they know what others "really" think. Some people see tickling sexually, which is great, for them. Others don't, which is equally great, for them. It irritates me when others insist that I really think what they think, and am just denying it.

As to njjen's point, yes, people do tend to demand more conventional sexuality from women. It's a remnant of older notions of sexuality and gender division. It's an archaism, and should be discouraged wherever possible.

At the same time, I do NOT think that ticklemeeeee felt she was being "branded" or "accused" or in any way forced by others' judgment to close her groups. It was her own decision that she was not comfortable with their approach, and wanted to pursue a different line. If she had been bullied, that would be terrible. If she simply changed her own priorities, that's her right.

U.N.Owen said:

As to njjen's point, yes, people do tend to demand more conventional sexuality from women. It's a remnant of older notions of sexuality and gender division. It's an archaism, and should be discouraged wherever possible.

Click to expand...

Hear, Hear!!!!

And that was my point too.

So hear, hear, hear. 😀


- Damien

Conversely I am often approached by ticklephiles who insist that every single ticklish encounter, even if it's just chat, be a prelude to (cyber)sex.

For many people, myself included, tickling is very much a part of my sensuality/sexuality (and there is a difference). However I respect my marriage too much to partake in anything too sexually graphic. So when I don't entertain their "advances" many times I am actually accused of being a p**ck tease or frigid, simply because I dare to have a profile that mentions tickling and I'm not willing to take a chat to a climactic finish.

So, Jen... from my perspective we seem to be experiencing related scenarios that represent opposite ends of the spectrum. I wonder if there would be an easy way determine the motivation or goal of a chat before it even begins... something like an a/s/l check (as corny as that sounds LOL)

Interesting topic.

I don't think that every woman (or man for that matter) is automatically labelled a slut if s/he mentions a sexual like of tickling. It does happen, but there can be other factors as well. Tickling doesn't even have to be part of the equation. If you (and by "you" I'm speaking generally, not to anyone in particular) go around saying things that would get you branded a slut if it were sex, you can expect the same if you do it with tickling and an expressed erotic interest.

Tickling can be extremely sexual for me. I say "can be", as there are different types of tickling. (We've had the "playful vs. sexual" discussion before, so I won't reproduce it here...you already know.) It doesn't have to be sexual, but if that's the setting I'm in, it's a very powerful aphrodisiac. As a matter of fact, if it's sexually-based tickling we're talking about, I'll happily admit to being a tickle-slut (if that term can apply to guys). I use the term loosely, however, with no evil connotation. If a couple of friends want to tickle each other but don't want to get heavily involved in a relationship, so what? Even if sex is involved, that's better left to the two people themselves than to us.

I would also like to note that I agree with those who stated the opposite. About folks who say they are only into the playful side of tickling being accused of denial. Some folks just like to tickle for the hell of it, and it isn't sexual. Leave them be. It's thier thing, not ours to judge. Of all the communities that should be open and accepting after decades "in the closet", it should be ours.

Ohh boy... this is a great thread....

To give an example of what njjen3953 may be thinking, I always found it unbelievably hypocritical and idiotic that, lets say in high school, if a guy and a girl have sex, they will be thought of as cool. BUT, if the girl gets pregnant, people will talk as if she did something wrong. People may even look down on the guy, too. The exact same action, but the attitude of others depends on the consequences. Or, the guy will look cool, but the girl will be considered a slut, even though they BOTH engaged in the same act.

I think this is more on intelligence and being able to understand reality and being able to put yourself in others shoes, and being an understanding person. There are an awful lot of idiots out there. Close minded, stupid bigots, blithering fools, and just plain retards. They will look at a group and label them one way, because they are too stupid and hateful to bother learning any more. ForeverRio and Dave talked about how some people can separate tickling and sex easily, and can tickle someone one day and it will be playful, and the next day tickle their partner and it be sexual. I understand that, because I can do that. To many people "out there," in the wide world, could care less. They will assume it's all sexual to us, and that's that. Sadly, there are even some here who think along these same lines. If you are able to seperate the playful aspect and the sexual aspect of tickling, there shouldn't even be a debate. But, these people think they're right, everyone else is wrong, and that's why we have these debates in the first place.

Now, I used the word "bigot" for a reason. Does anyone care what a bigot thinks? No. They're an idiot, they hold a pathetically ignorant view on the world, they're a bully, or a piece of crap, and that's that. It's not like you can debate them, or reason with them. Just go talk to someone who hates blacks, or whites, or gays. Talk to them for a few minutes. You will quickly find out any attempt at reason is utterly hopeless. I have talked to people who hate blacks, and whites, and gays, and anyone of a different religion. Believe me, any attempt at reason or thought is wasted, and the more facts and reason you give them, the more pissed off they get. Go talk to a bunch of people who think that women who have sex are sluts, but guys who do it are cool. You will get nowhere and if you make a good point, they will just try to hit you to prove their "superior intellect."

It is extremely important, njjen3953, that you ignore these people and get on with it. Just ignore them. Don't try to talk to them, reason with them, don't even acknowledge their existence. You will get nowhere. They're fools. You would have better luck arguing with a concrete slab. Once they are ignored, they will wander off and bother someone else. You and everyone else here who doesn't think like them will always be above those people. Never forget that.

Jen:

I would hope that would not be the case. Yes, there is a double standard in the world, but in my opinion it is most often seen in men who are intimidated by women with outspoken attitudes. Ignore such individuals. For my part, I have seen most great respect towards such women here and in general within the fetish community by most mature members.

njjen3953 said:

Why is it that if a female is open about liking the sexual side of tickling, she becomes labled a slut and respect for her as a person goes out the window? I have seen it over and over on the internet and especially here.

Jen

Click to expand...

njjen3953 said:

Why is it that if a female is open about liking the sexual side of tickling, she becomes labled a slut and respect for her as a person goes out the window? I have seen it over and over on the internet and especially here.

Jen

Click to expand...

I guess I don't agree. Relationships, wheteher TMF thread, IM's, phone calls or real life meetings,relationships are all up to the people involved in them. I find tickling very erotic and sexual. I share what I choose with the people I choose and find that some fizzle at my choice or theirs...and I also have great friendships with some people just because of this common interest that grew into wanting to know more about them or them me. When the relationship grows its a good thing...and they are all different..

REMEMBER you don't have to talk to everyone that IM's you...or answer their emails.

Trying to figure out such a general statement, "Why is it that if a female is open about liking the sexual side of tickling, she becomes labled a slut and respect for her as a person goes out the window?" will get you (or anyone)no further ahead. If you choose to believe its every female, I suggest that you look deeper. I mean that as a positive way to stop and think before going forward. Look at what makes you think that and solve that step first. Then move on. Maybe changes will make a difference in your correspondences with others, maybe not. You will be the only one to find that delete button on your keyboard and be able to move past the ones that do not have good intent.

Hell, even if you have to change your screenname to start over it may be worth it .........only you know you best..

Life online may be a little more open and easier to talk with someone, but if you find that real life just isn't working the way you want it, some changes are in order.


Just my thoughts on this matter....Be TOUGH and you will make it through it!


Donna

a couple other sides of the coin;

remember in the bad old days of the wild and wooly amt?
remember when any woman who stepped forward and admited to loving tickling, and finding it sexual ,was automaticly labeled a homosexual man trolling??

i think we've come a long way since then, especially here on the tmf. it saddens me that jen is being abused like this. what i'd like to see jen do, is save, and post here any further insulting im's, and emails, so we all can shun such louts! it's about time people be made to pay for their boorish behavior.

some of us love you jen, and are glad that you are so open about yourself.

the only time a called a woman a slut, or ***** for having sex, was when my wife cheated on me. sometimes it's the only thing you can think of! lol.

i'll give you the guy's side too. i've lost count of the number of times i've been accused of alterior motives when i've admited where my most ticklish spot is. but then the "you're just looking for a hand job, blow job, etc., cracks have come from both women, and men.

steve

Steve,
I was not talking necessarily about myself, but thanks for coming to my defense. As I mentioned earlier, this thread was mostly inspired by ticklemmmeeeeeee closing her yahoo groups. I know she was getting bombarded even though she clearly stated that she has a boyfriend and is not looking. I talk to women in the community and constantly hear stories about guys e-mailing and IMing them in inappropriate ways.

You guys(not all, but many) want females that are into tickling, but then you treat us like this?

I am speaking for not just myself, but women in general. Yes, I have experienced some of this as well and those who have done it to me, felt their manhood shrink up to the point I am sure their voices became several octives higher. LOL

My $0.02 on the matter.

Hi Jen...i certainly see your point. i work at a gentlemen's club and see that attitude all of the time...the girls are good enough to satisfy their "jollies", but not taken seriously as a woman. Usually it is a man who is not too comfortable with their own sexual desires, so if a woman likes the same thing something must be "wrong" with her...therefore she can't be good enough to publicly display as a girlfriend or wife. These are confused guys who until they can accept their own sexuality as "normal" (and normal is different for everyone) they can never truly be relationship material for a confident woman. And women do the same thing...men who are open-minded about what they like sexually are often unfairly labeled as pervert or deviants. and while i think all men should be respectful of women, especially when first approaching them either IRL or online, you can't blame them for trying to get to know a lady even if she claims to be "off-limits" or not looking. You never know when love will happen, especially if you are not looking for it. and you would be surprised how many married or attached women respond to harmless and even "purposeful" flirting so please don't put all of the blame on the fellas. So please don't paint all or most men with the same broad brush...just like women, we're not all angels, but we're not all devils either.

This is an issue that mostly deals with an individual's attitude, not so much a gender specific belief. Just be yourself Jen...i've met you before and you are a very cool and sweet woman and any guy would be lucky to have you. and if he's also a tickle-holic he's even luckier. The right man is out there for you...just be patient, true happiness will be worth it.

drew70 said:

Jen, I've quite honestly never seen this happen on any tickling forum I've participated in. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite for the most part. That is to say, I've seen people that claim to enjoy tickling outside of a sexual context are often jeered and ridiculed as denying the "real" reason for their interest.

Click to expand...

I'd agree with all of that. It may be happening of course, but I've never seen it, or heard of it. The TMF seems to a lot more free of illogical and sexist idiocies that r/l is bound to.

I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with a woman being frank about how sexual she finds being tickled.

I for one love listening (or reading) about what turns a woman on. Especially if it's tickling. I honestly don't know what's wrong with some people. Theres nothing pornographic in that, it's simply part of real life, and all parts of ones life (their sexual one included) should be expressed. In my opinion it's very healthy to do so.

killedbyanangel said:

I for one love listening (or reading) about what turns a woman on. Especially if it's tickling. I honestly don't know what's wrong with some people. Theres nothing pornographic in that, it's simply part of real life, and all parts of ones life (their sexual one included) should be expressed. In my opinion it's very healthy to do so.

Click to expand...

Bingo mate!

If women weren't open about what turns them on, how the hell are we supposed to cater to it? It's nothing evil except in the heads of the narrow-minded.