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Abusive Tickling

Haltickling

2nd Level Green Feather
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Apr 3, 2001
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A few links I found on the topic “Abusive Tickling”:

This one is about a 50 year old teacher tickling 8th grade boy students:
http://administrators.net/chatboard/topic3797/1.26.03.15.15.12.html

And this is from a concerned mother about her sons tickling each other:
http://www.ivillagehealth.com/experts/emotional/qas/0,11816,166205_150620,00.html

IMO, tickling is ALWAYS abusive when it goes beyond a “no” without previous consent, not to speak of pedophilic tickling which is a crime anyway. What’s your take on this?
 
Interesting stuff, Hal. I think adding continuing the tickling after a safeword is used should be in there as well...unless it was agreed that none should be used. I have no problem with adults tickling kids as long as it's innocent and playful fun rather than anything beyond that. But, there are still boundaries that should not be crossed.

Ann
 
I once dated a girl who had been in a few abusive relationships in the past. Since we naturally indulged in my favorite form of recreational laugh-making on a far-more-than-regular basis, I eventually was let in on the details of her past. One of her boyfriends used to tickle her until she couldn't breathe, mainly as a way of "keeping her under control". She once in a while made an off-hand reference to being pinned on a subway platform. This same clown made sure to cut her nails for her to keep her from fighting back. :wow:

people like this aren't overeager ticklephiles giving the rest of us "normal" folk a bad name; they're control freaks who just see tickling as an easily-exploited weakness in their object of domination.

people like that make me sick.:sowrong:
 
I think peope who use tickling as a way to control people....well....they need help, thats for sure.
 
Stating the obvious there,....

....Anyway, what exactly is "pedophilic tickling"? Does that mean for a grown- up to tickle kids? (Which is not illegal) Or is it tickling kids for sexual gratification or something? If so, how do you prove gratification was gained?

...Interesting.
 
CDFGA, I don't think it's necessary to prove 'sexual gratification' in the teacher-student case:

1) Any teacher has to keep his hands off all his students, no matter whether minors or not.
2) The touch was obviously not welcome, so the teacher transgressed the personal sphere of another person (I'm not sure if it's the correct legal term in English, but you know what I mean).
3) The pattern of repeatedly tickling many underage boys provides a clear indication of his motives. It IS the pattern of a pedophile.

The issue becomes much more difficult in a parent- (or relative-) child tickling case. It could mean a deep, non-sexual affection as well as a case of child abuse, depending on the circumstances.

In the brother-brother case, the problem doesn't lie in pedophily, but in the immaturity of the elder brother to understand the consequences of his actions (and in the obvious lack of his parents' ability to make the kid understand them).
 
Oh, I agree,....

As far as the teacher thing, yuk. That's just gross. -He's probably a queer or something, and shouldn't be around kids anyway. But in a normal situation, I don't see anything wrong.





...And I'd still like to see the term defined.
 
When I first became a teacher, I didn't even want to shake a kid's hand for fear that someone would misconstrue it into something disgusting. I swear!

And whenever a kid ran up to hug me (kids do that cause they're kids and they love grown ups until they get to high school) I would visibly cringe. LOL But you cannot be an elementary school teacher or a middle school teacher without some physical contact with your students (I haven't taught high school yet, so I don't know). It's not possible. I mean they want to give you five whenever they score a point in the game.... or when they are feeling down, squeezing one shoulder and saying one word may be enough to carry them through the day. I know this is not the same thing, but just keep following me. To make a blanket statement saying that a teacher must keep his hands off all students, that may truly be an impossible feat to accomplish (without running away each time a kid comes near).

There are so many people who do look at something and immediately turn it into something ugly. And hey, the best way to stay out of those situations is just not to be in it at all.

But to say there is this magical formula that keeps every adult out of sticky situations is just a lie, especially when you are surrounded by someone else's kids all day long. Sometimes it just creeps up on you and you end up scrambling around to CYA.

Do I think this teacher's behavior was inappropriate? I feel like anything that could be considered misbehavior, or "borderline behavior" should be avoided at all costs. However, besides the tickling and the verbal put downs to the students, I didn't see any other evidence. Besides the fact that he is also the kids' favorite teacher and I have seen plenty of jealous teachers trying to get rid of those!

The teachers' lounge thing was just ridiculous. Come on! Let’s stop for a second. Our teachers' lounge door always locks behind us, ALWAYS. In every school I have been in, it does that. And every school has a NO STUDENTS ALLOWED rule; however, when there is a responsible adult in there watching the kids whether they are using the phone or buying one of the coveted snacks in the machine, that is NOT wrong. He was in a group. He did nothing wrong with that incident. THIS was why the teachers didn’t report it. They would have been laughed at (by the wacky principal no doubt).

And reporting gut feelings? That is SOOOOOOOOO crazy. That isn't even evidence.

"I feel Sunrise is a beating a student in her class."

SO WHAT! Prove it! You go out in public and say that in my school, and I will sue you for slander. They had better have evidence or else they will be sued.

"We feel that although "nothing" may be going
on with him and the boys now, he is a walking time bomb,
and it's only a matter of time before he really does
something to someone and if we don't say anything, we go
down, too."

We suspect he may be a crazy pedophile, but until we get hard evidence, we'll keep a diary stating how he makes us feel weird. We will watch him like a hawk and bide our time until we can catch him in a compromising situation. And without getting any sides of the story, because we smell blood, we will jump up as fast as we can and get him fired! Woohoo!

From the one sided story that I read, he may not make the best decisions as a teacher (Ok, he's done stupid stuff that could get him in trouble.), but there is not hard evidence that he is abusive. Or that he is a queer... LOL but hey, everyone is entitled to opinions. Opinions aren't appreciated when someone's job is at stake. Show me evidence!

As for abusive tickling, there are some adult people who love tickling someone WITHOUT ASKING until he or she is in serious distress. It's under the name nonconsensual tickling.

Sunrise
:Kiss2:
 
Very intresting, especially your point of view, Sunrise. Back in England there was once a story in the newspaper about a Teacher who abused his students. He was fired, of course, once enough proof was found -- infact, I believe he confessed to everything in the end.

Problems like the teacher in the artical Hal posted shouldn't be ignored, especially not by the schools principle. I mean, they could BOTH get in alot of trouble for such a thing...
 
WHAT? "Queers shouldn't be around children"??

Newsflash,CDFGA! Most pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL men.
Your comment:
"-He's probably a queer or something, and shouldn't be around kids anyway. But in a normal situation, I don't see anything wrong."
is incorrect and a good example of the ignorance that is behind most homophobia.
 
Re: WHAT? "Queers shouldn't be around children"??

ticklebutton said:
Newsflash,CDFGA! Most pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL men.
Your comment:
"-He's probably a queer or something, and shouldn't be around kids anyway. But in a normal situation, I don't see anything wrong."
is incorrect and a good example of the ignorance that is behind most homophobia.

I have to admit, I missed that. I'm not sure if they meant it the way it sounds, but you're right of course, Ticklebutton..
 
ticklebutton, just for clarification: The teacher in the article tickled boys, so if his actions were sexually motivated, he's probably a homosexual (or bisexual).

Besides, the Greek word 'paidophilia' originally means 'love for boys' (paido=boy). It was quite fashionable for mature men in ancient Greece to have a boy lover, to introduce him into the world of sex. Homosexuality was quite well-esteemed then.

Sunrise, with "hands off" I didn't mean "no body contact at all". I'm sorry that I haven't expressed myself clearer. Yet I think that this teacher in the article is worth an investigation by his fellow teachers, and if necessary by the competent authorities, your doubtlessly valuable arguments notwithstanding. Sometimes, fellow teachers are not always objective when it comes to judging the actions of a colleague, and that goes both for condemning him as well as for favorable points of view. That's the joy and pain of 'group dynamics'.
 
this area for me is simple

i think aboursive tickling is wrong and should not happen, because tickling is all about fun and their a fine line between fun tickling and abosive tickling. And anyone who does abosive tickling is really messed up in inside..tickling is about exciting new things and like i said mainly about fun and making everyone have a great time
 
do what??

...So I'm a "homophobic" because I think queers shouldn't be around kids? ...If so, then oh well.
 
Re: do what??

CDFGA said:
...So I'm a "homophobic" because I think queers shouldn't be around kids? ...If so, then oh well.

Yes, your narrow-minded, bigoted attitude(as expressed) does mark you as a homophobe. You seem to be already aware of this fact, and disinclined to grow out of your problem. Still...
Most phobias (acrophobia, arachnophobia) can be overcome by desensitization: that is to say by exposure to the feared object or situation. Perhaps, if you allowed yourself to get acquainted with some gay people and discovered that they are (in the main) not dangerous to you or to children, you could overcome your irrational dread.
Food for thought... go hungry if you must.
 
Re: do what??

CDFGA said:
...So I'm a "homophobic" because I think queers shouldn't be around kids? ...If so, then oh well.

Why exactly do you think that? Its not like being a homosexual automatically makes you a child molester or something o.ox;
 
Dang,.....

...Get back in the closet, y'all. That's my opinion, but I guess since it doesn't agree with yours, then it's not ok, huh?
 
On "queers" and teaching

Okay, time for me to weigh in.

I grew up in a small, homophobic town, and went to college in a homophobic environment as well. I will be the first to admit that, in those days, I was not comfortable with homosexuality. Don't get me wrong, I never condoned violent attacks or even verbal abuse against those who were gay, but I would not have been comfortable getting close to gays, and I would have agreed that there was a problem with gay people teaching school.

Well, I have lived in New York City and been a member of the arts community for the last 12 years. This has brought me into contact with lots of gay people. Very recently, I collaborated with a gay man on an artistic project. Not only that, it was a project that I wrote which involved a homosexual relationship, in spite of the fact that I myself am a heterosexual man. Well, this man, who happens to be gay, has become a very good friend of mine. I cannot even count the number of times he and I have hugged, in the course of sharing a success with the project and with enjoying working with each other. And, also recently, I spent an evening in a music bar with a gay man. He shared some of the problems he goes through in dating men; I replied that I understood completely because I go through the same things with women. He and I had a hug when that evening was over too. (We're theatre people; theatre people hug and kiss all the time, sexuality notwithstanding.)

What am I getting at? I am getting at the fact that I didn't know in the past, but now I do know: There is absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever why there should be any social barriors whatsoever between gay and straight. Saying that a gay male teacher is likely to lust after his male students is exactly the same nonsense as saying that a straight male teacher is likely to lust after his female students. Obviously, both these scenarios sometimes to happen, but it is ignorance to single out gays as being suspect of such.

You want to know something else? Speaking as one ticklephile to another, it is absolutely ludicrous for any of us to be homophobic; it's the equivalent of a black person being prejudiced against a Puerto Rican. (Yes, I do know that this sometimes happens; I saw that episode of "All in the Family" too.) In fact, I happen to be a teacher. Do you think, because I'm a ticklephile, that I can't be trusted alone in an office with my students? You think a gay person deserves any more stereotyping than you and I do? Dream on!
 
...I'm glad to see your "homosexual experience" has been far rosier than mine, WiP. The single gay man I met in person hit on me all evening, despite my telling him at the outset that I was straight,and I also had to yank male characters from TS due to gay men using it as an excuse to proposition me.

now, I'm not stupid enough to assume that all gay men are like this; but I won't be so naive as to admit it doesn't color my perceptions.

as far as us ticklephiles having "no right" to criticize? look, just because I happen to like a particular activity that's harmless, albiet negatively stereotyped by society, doesn't mean I have to be accepting of ALL "deviant" behaviors... including such joys as watersports, fecophilia, or the big favorite around here, BSDM. I won't go out of my way to rain on the parades of those who DO enjoy such pursuits, but don't expect me to like them because I have a "dirty little secret" of my own. apples and oranges, my friend. in my mind, thinking feet are pretty is a far cry from getting off on someone smearing sh!t all over you, and I will never believe that thinking one is okay requires you to think the other is okay, too.

anyway.

the guy in question in the original post was acting unprofessionally, and that's especially repugnant around children. "queer" or straight, if he can't control himself, he needs to go.
 
Re: Dang,.....

CDFGA said:


...Get back in the closet, y'all. That's my opinion, but I guess since it doesn't agree with yours, then it's not ok, huh?


Isn't being gay just a preference? People have the right to such a choice, same as all of us have a right to enjoy tickling in this way. I'm sure YOU don't/wouldn't like it if someone felt this way about people with a tickling fetish.
 
I thought that I had posted this reply earlier today, and I'm puzzled not to see it up now. I must have hit the wrong command at the time. Anyway, the following is a somewhat shortened reconstruction of what I wrote before, and mainly a reply to Phineas.

1. Nobody is telling you whom you should like or dislike. The point is discrimination. Discrimination against a gay person for a teaching or childcare job, and stereotyping a gay person as being a more likely predator, is wrong. As for the comparison with ticklephiles, my main point is this: If you went out on the teaching job market telling interviewers "I belong to a community where we tie each other down and tickle each other mercilessly, using bondage equipment and feathers," you'd be vulnerable to being discriminated against. Ticklephiles and gays share a common vulnerability--to wrongful discrimination.

2. Nobody is disputing that the teacher in that article is a menace to society who, at minimum, shouldn't be allowed to teach. The point is, he's a predator. Being gay isn't what makes him a predator. Taking strong stands against predators can, and should, be done without any extra concern for whether the predators are gay or straight. The problem is predators, regardless of whether they are gay or straight. Otherwise, you're going to have to say that straight men shouldn't be supervisors, because of all the sexual harassment of women that straight men have indulged in.
 
WiP, your original comment,

Speaking as one ticklephile to another, it is absolutely ludicrous for any of us to be homophobic; it's the equivalent of a black person being prejudiced against a Puerto Rican.

tells me that you expect me to be accepting of homosexuality simply because I'm a ticklephile, unless I'm interpreting this wrong. I don't agree. Just because black people are discriminated against doesn't mean they have to like Latinos just because *they're* discriminated against. I have something in common with Jeffrey Dahmer, we're both quiet white guys. Doesn't mean I thought it was okay for him to whip up a batch of Chad Chile. 😀

If you went out on the teaching job market telling interviewers "I belong to a community where we tie each other down and tickle each other mercilessly, using bondage equipment and feathers," you'd be vulnerable to being discriminated against.

...and that's why I would never do so. A job interview is not the place for such information to become public. I've always felt, whether rightly or wrongly, that gay people put too much emphasis on the fact that they were gay. I don't care whether you fuck your own sex, the opposite sex, farm animals, frogs, or furniture; I don't need to know about it because it's none of my business. If you make the choice to publicly broadcast the fact that you engage in practices that the majority of society finds distasteful, whether it be tickling, homosexuality, or Barney-worship, then you'd be stupid to be surprised when there's a negative backlash.
 
Again, it's not a matter of "liking." Nothing that I've written in this thread should be interpreted as suggesting that I care who "likes" whom.

The problem is bigotry. The problem is discrimination. The problem is the bestowal of second-class citizenship on people for any illegitimate reason such as skin color, national origin, or sexual proclivity.

Obviously, being a member of a group that's susceptible to bigotry doesn't automatically make one a non-bigot, but it should certainly help one see the illegitimacy of bigotry. To be more specific, if you're a ticklephile, if someone suggests that it's dangerous to leave you alone with children, if you think that's ridiculous because there's a difference between what you do with consenting adults and what you do with children, then you should be able to see that the same mistake is equally wrong with regards to gays.

As for gays wanting everybody to know they're gay, don't heterosexual people flaunt their heterosexuality? On a nice spring day in the park, don't we see heterosexual couples galore, letting everybody know that they're heterosexual couples? I might consider being in favor of asking gays to stay in the closet if heterosexuals could be asked to keep their heterosexual identities to themselves too--and I happen to be a heterosexual!
 
I'm going to make this short and simple. I am totally surprised at the homophobic opinions of some people on this forum. All it is showing is your ignorance, plain and simple. Time to grow up.

-Jamandi-
 
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