Affirmative Action

[Krokus]

Wow!

Man, ice! You just can't debate can you?? You can't talk your way around this, everyone can see you failing. By the way, im not whining, Im simply expressing my opinion, and debating, which is obviously something you can't do. Let's say....a young black male that should get rejected by a college, due to lack of academic performance....but manages to get in JUST because of those extra points, JUST because he is black. Ok, same situation, only the young male is white. What happens? He gets rejected, and the only reason the black male got in, is because of those extra points. Imagine how that would make you feel. Now, you explain to me how this system is fair...or at least how you think it is fair.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Wow!

O/T

 

[ShiningIce]

I just stated my argument AA LEVELS THE PLAYING THE FIELD. and trust me the playing field needs leveling. thats my argument, thats my reasoning. By the way Krokus has made a career of personal attacks. I am now done with this thread.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

O/T

 

[Texas_Tickle]

No doubt the affirmative action system has its share of problems, but it has greatly increased diversity at companies and colleges, and until there's no more discrimination against minorities in the workplace, it's needed, and I'll continue to support it. Just my opinion. 🙂

Yes there will still be discrimination. Take this scenario as an example

2 people apply for the same job. We'll call them "applicant A" and "applicant B"

Applicant A had more training, experience, education, ect, and was clearly more qualified for the type of work being sought.

But Applicant B was hired simply to satisfy a quota, even though Applicant B may not have the skills, training, or education that Applicant A had.

That is discrimination. Just because the "minority" was not discriminated against, does not mean there was no discrimination, at all.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

If we're going to do away with affirmative action, shouldn't we also do away with preferential college admission for athletes? Isn't it an insult and unfair to the other students to let someone with bad grades into college just because he can pass or shoot well?

Yes. I think that athletes should be held to the same standards that everybody else is.

Just because your a star football player, if you don't have the grades, you should not get in. You should be admitted based on how well you pass tests, not footballs.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Hey

Im not trying to say that there are not white people that are racist...I am well aware that there are plenty. I just think that affirmative action is Bullshit. To screw us over because of the actions of others? Bullshit.

Amen. I refuse to be told to take the blame for what happened 200 years ago.

 

[Krokus]

O/T

 

[Texas_Tickle]

O/T

 

[kurchatovium]

The truth is the playing field will never be level. Simply because everyone isn't average. Some people are smarter. Smart people repair things better. Some people teach better. We are all different in many different ways. Employers do discriminate all the time as Ticklemaster750 pointed out. They may think person A is smarter or works harder than person B for reasons that you might not ever know. I had a potential employer that didn't like my Wyatt Earp like moustache and didn't hire me. Thats his choice and his loss in my opinion. He discriminated against me based on my facial hair, big deal I found another job. Here is another thing while I was looking for a job about 15 years ago I was overweight and didn't get many offers but once I lost the weight the offers came rolling in. I'm certain some companies thought I might be a health risk and didn't higher me. How can you possibly force companies to keep all these things level? You can't in my humble opinion. What you can do is give all people the best shot at getting a job by giving them proper training or education.

 

[ShiningIce]

Ok, I'm back. Person A is more qualitfied than person B but he doesnt get the job because hes black and doesnt fit "the executive image" of the company hes seeking employment with. Say its bullshit, its happened countless times to members of my family and parent's friends. Thats why I support AA I have more conviction than ull ever know Ticklemaster and dont u forget it.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Dont delude yourself into believeing you're on the side of whats just and right because we both know what your full of.

"Just and right" based on who's standards? If you recall, Hitler said it was "just and right" to slaughter 6 million Jews.

It all depends on what your definition of "just and right" is.

 

[Krokus]

Lol

Keep telling yourself that, ice. You still have not proven anything... And the wild assumptions you have made about me....you have crossed the line. I am here for a debate, not a personal bout. I have made efforts for the past 5 months to change my way of thinking, and the way I see things. I would like to think I have come a good way. I understand what AA was put here for, but giving ANYONE a leg-up in Academic success, whether the person be white, black...whatever...is wrong. Now, Ice, I would like to have a CIVIL debate. Let's change our way of thinking here. Put all the stupid shit that we have went through behind you, like I am doing...and let's start over. Ok. I understand that many african-American people have been pushed down by the system. But I do not believe taking a problem and solving it at the expense of everyone else is the right way to go about things. Try to understand where I am coming from. If your family has indeed had to go through the type of things you talked about, I am sorry. I know how angry that must make you. I know how angry it would make me...People ARE capable of change ice, it's just a matter of when. If you don't want to reply, thats fine, but if you do decide to continue the conversation, please calm down, and let's talk and debate like men should. Thanks.

 

[kurchatovium]

So do people have the right to discriminate against me because I'm fat? I also have rather bad eyesight and couldn't get a job with certain companies. Do they have right do discrimate against me because of that? Where do you draw the line? I can tell you an employer can find a gazillion reasons not to higher you and they are almost always smart enough not to say something stupid like we don't want you because your hispanic, black or any other minority. How do you prove otherwise? Do you use quotas? The whole thing I think has gotten messy. AA is a quick fix in my opinion that politicans came up with so they don't actually have to work with anyone in the black or hispanic communities. To help someone you have to take the time to get to know them and work with them. That takes time and commitment. It much easier to enact a program that is arbitrary in its decisions to please certain minority groups who will get you reelected.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

First of all, let it be said now, that I am not a racist.....

I do not have a problem with equality for minorities. No problem a all. But what I find to be the most absurd, is they all say they want equality, yet, they want extra "perks" and "freebies" simply because of race or ethnic heritage. Such "perks" are usually not available to anybody else.....I think that's far from "equal".

Am I the only person who thinks that's just a wee bit absurd?

 

[kurchatovium]

They don't fear you. The Democrats don't care about you because they always know you'll vote for them. The Republicans don't care because they know you'll never vote for them. So the politicians come up with inane programs that look good on paper and then they ignore you. To scare them a little I would vote Libertarian, or Green party, or Independent or something else other than Democratic. Then you'll see some real results.

The way you help minorities is to get them educated. Build community colleges. Do like Magic Johnson did and get some businesses in those communities with good paying jobs. Those parents can then afford to send their kids to college. You can't be an executive if you don't have training in business mangement. You can't be a enginer if you don't take engineering. I have been at my company helping my boss interview for 13 years for technicans. During that time only two black applicants applied. Thats just not right. There has to be away to get people qualified to apply to positions like these so they can move up the ladder. AA isn't cutting it. It has helped some probably but I think there are ways to do better. Much better. By the way we did higher the last applicant, its the Ethiopian lady I mentioned earlier.

 

[Krokus]

They wont spend time in our communities because they fear us.

Could you please explain that to me? I am curious as to what you mean by that.

 

[ShiningIce]

We're all just gangbangers and hoodrats in their eyes. Once I was walking home at night and a lady in front of me dropped her cell phone and I pickled it up and ran to catch up with her she looked back, screamed and started yelling for the police..

 

[46and2]

My two cents....

I must admit that I disagree with the affirmitive action laws myself. If there is a law that forces you to be biased you've defeated the entire purpose of it being in the name of equality. I think that the law was mereley passed because certain politicians wanted to deliver results quickly to some very demanding activists. There is no easy soloution to the problem of racism, but we have come a long way. Maybe all interviews should be conducted blindfolded! 😉 Like it or not AA does not prevent racism in the workplace, if anything I would think that it would provoke the employer into finding the legal loopholes to fire the race that they don't want working for them. Also (as earlier noted) the system does not defeat racism toward caucasions (I'm a white boy in a pre-dominantly hispanic neighborhood, and believe me we are just as subject to racism as anyone else). You cannot pass a law that try's to dictate the way people think. The best you can do is attempt to educate them the best you can. I also think that there are alternatives to affirmitive action that would do the job alot better, but I doubt our government would take the time, money, and energy to do them.

-Phil

 

[kurchatovium]

Well that kind of fear comes out of ignorance and that ignorance can only be overcome by people actually communicating. Getting the politicians to do something is by doing like I said not letting them take your vote for granted.

 

[46and2]

Well that kind of fear comes out of ignorance and that ignorance can only be overcome by people actually communicating. Getting the politicians to do something is by doing like I said not letting them take your vote for granted.

Well I do my humble best to communicate, and I can only be down for so many causes at once.
Have a good evening.🙂

-Phil

 

[Krokus]

Hm.

Ice, there will always be paranoid people on this earth.... that woman probably watches too many talk shows... or she is a sucker for stereotypes... as for the gangbanger thing, politicians are crooked, which is why I hate politics in the first place. I trust a politician about as much as I trust a lawyer...in other words: I do not.

 

[kurchatovium]

I think if everyone did like you 46and2 and did their best to communicate things would be a lot better. Have a good night and we will tackle the worlds problems again tomorrow.🙂

 

[Texas_Tickle]

I have a neighbor who is black. He said that he finds Affirmative Action insulting. He said he has way too much pride in himself to accept a "freebie" simply because he is black.

He said that many of his "black brothers and sisters" use their heritage as a crutch and excuse and in his own words "angers him like nothing else on earth".

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Lol

O/T